Hossa

[Vladifan 680]

Hossa already scored the goals he got paid for. Players salary is for an 82 game season. Hossa and Datsyuk kept this team afloat throughout the season and there were definetly people saying that Flip needed to be traded. He made to much. Let Hudler walk, he's to small. Get sammy the hell out of here, he shoots to much, we need to sign Hossa. Every single person who's calling for Hossa and Datsyuk's heads are ridiculous. Probably the same people that were castigating everyone else who wasn't producing earlier in the season. Very rarely does a team fire on all cylinders, just an offensive juggernaut, yet have it happen in the post season. It happened for us last season, we had real spread out scoring. This season not so much. What's gonna happen when we go into Chicago? Do you think Q is gonna want Kane and Toews looking down at Pavel and Zetterberg? Hopefully those two will be able to take advantage of lesser defencemen, and capatlize on their opportunities. In previous series, they faced a pretty hot goalie, which Hossa and Datsyuk still got atleast one goal on, and they faced a pretty damn deep and good defence in Anaheim. I'm not making excuses I'm just saying. It's all relative, the scoring's gonna come from somewhere. Scoring goals was not our problem in the regular season, Goaltending and defence was. Problem fixed. We're still outscoring the opponent. 13 is still stripping people from the puck. He's dangling, Hossa is firing shots and taking the puck back when the wings don't have it. We're all still a "team" until the last game of the playoffs, so lets ship Hossa off then, or sign him then, whatever. For anyone who has the NHL network if you watch NHL: On The Fly you'll see the analysts talk about Datsyuk and Hossa. They're doing everything right, they're playing great defensively, s***'s just not going in. Those are former players and profressionals that know exactly what to look at. They know what's going on, and they're not just blowing smoke up everyone's ass because Holland asked them too. There's gotta be some truth to it.

Totally agree. They helped get us here. Defense and goaltending have both shaped up. Now OTHER players are scoring, so what the hell's the big deal?

Some of us not only want it all, but we want it yesterday. GET REAL.

...Talk about your "quality" problems!....

[Vladifan 680]

You guys are absolutely right. Dude's completely phoning it. Waste of precious cap space. If only we had Leino. Etc.

Annnd, if we want more activity along the boards and stronger defensive play, how's about Downey?

[titanium2 867]

It's really hard to watch Crosby and Kane and Getzlaf tear up the highlight reels and not expect the same from our superstars.

But I guess I can be more patient, especially after Zetterberg said, "It's nice to have depth. You know that every line can score. You can wait on the opportunity to get your chances. You don't have to force anything and you can play with discipline. You'll get your chance."

[KronwallCRUNCH 5]

It's really hard to watch Crosby and Kane and Getzlaf tear up the highlight reels and not expect the same from our superstars.

But what do you expect? The Wings depth guys to score 3 goals per game, and then have Hossa/Datsyuk/Z score another 3 on top of that? Come on, this is the playoffs. A couple of years ago people were complaining that our depth guys didn't contribute; now they are, we're winning, and people are still whining. It'll never end.

[KronwallCRUNCH 5]

Somewhere along the line "backchecking" became equated with "strong all-around defensive play." Hossa is not digging pucks out of corners in the defensive zone. Hes not blocking shots. His forechecks are pathetic. But he backchecks. Lets excuse him now for the fact that he can't score, can't set anyone up, is hit way more than he hits, and in general, does a whole lot more of waiting for the puck to come to him than getting the puck himself.

Again, can we, just for once, pretend that we know something about the positional aspects of hockey as well as the roles of different players? In the defensive zone, a winger shouldn't be in the corners digging for pucks. In the offensive zone, a sniper shouldn't be in the corners digging for pucks. He should be in the slot, or along the wall cycling the puck; just like Hossa does.

See how many games the Wings win if Hossa is down in the corners in either end; if he did what you asked, you wouldn't even be "complimenting" him on backchecking because he'd be so far behind the play.

[Guest micah]

But what do you expect? The Wings depth guys to score 3 goals per game, and then have Hossa/Datsyuk/Z score another 3 on top of that? Come on, this is the playoffs. A couple of years ago people were complaining that our depth guys didn't contribute; now they are, we're winning, and people are still whining. It'll never end.

I don't expect our depth guys to come up with 3 goals a game. when they do, it's awesome, but that's more than they're expected to do. Our elite players are expected to score 2-3 goals per game in the playoffs (collectively, obviously - not apiece).

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Yup.

Sure, Hossa is backchecking. Great! It's part of his job and he's expected to do it well. He is a high-paid, very skilled player and is expected to consistantly play at a very high level.

Kris Draper is a utility guy. Nothing is expected of him. It's fine to say "Drapes is playing well, he's great on the faceoff and he's so fast!" If Draper were on a scoring line and the only positives people were mentioning were his speed and faceoff prowess, he'd be underperforming. So it is with Dats, so it is with Hossa. These are supposed to be elite forwards, able to do it all and make it look easy. The bar is set higher for them than most, that's how it's supposed to be. If you're given much, much is expected from you. A solid backcheck is not enough if you're Hossa. Even if the team can win games without your help on offense.

This is very well put micah. Great post, and it sums up what I was saying in the Dats thread as well.

The fact of the matter is that the Wings' depth is what's gotten them as far as it has so far this postseason, but I'd feel alot better knowing if that went away our top line would help pick up the slack. Right now, no one can say they're confident that would happen.

[Opie 308]

Didn't ANA's big line come up with 2-3 goals a game, hmmm, too bad they didn't have more depth!

[Pasha13 0]

Hossa's a finisher...we didn't get him for his checking abilities...and we sure as Hades didn't pay him $7.45 M to be a passenger on a cup run...

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Didn't ANA's big line come up with 2-3 goals a game, hmmm, too bad they didn't have more depth!

What does that have to do with the Wings' situation? Apples to oranges...the Wings have depth, the Ducks don't.

[Dabura 12,232]

This is very well put micah. Great post, and it sums up what I was saying in the Dats thread as well.

The fact of the matter is that the Wings' depth is what's gotten them as far as it has so far this postseason, but I'd feel alot better knowing if that went away our top line would help pick up the slack. Right now, no one can say they're confident that would happen.

I think it's largely an issue of necessity. It typically is with these Wings.

Checkers, energy guys, role players scoring = No onus on star players = No production from star players.

Similarly, and more understandably, Star players scoring = No onus on checkers, energy guys, role players = No production from checkers, energy guys, role players.

One well dries up, the other fills to the brim. Very rarely are both full for this team.

Having said all this, Datsyuk, Hossa and Holmstrom do need to step it up. But the need is not a matter of life and death (yet), considering the Wing shave won the first two in this series and scored eight goals over the span of those two games. It's not like they're starved for offense. That would be a dire situation.

[Dabura 12,232]

Oh yeah:

HOSSA SUCKS

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I think it's largely an issue of necessity. It typically is with these Wings.

Checkers, energy guys, role players scoring = No onus on star players = No production from star players.

Similarly, and more understandably, Star players scoring = No onus on checkers, energy guys, role players = No production from checkers, energy guys, role players.

One well dries up, the other fills to the brim. Very rarely are both full for this team.

Having said all this, Datsyuk, Hossa and Holmstrom do need to step it up. But the need is not a matter of life and death (yet), considering the Wing shave won the first two in this series and scored eight goals over the span of those two games. It's not like they're starved for offense. That would be a dire situation.

I agree with that (and the rest of your post for that matter), but I'm not looking for the Wings' top line to be putting up normal playoff top-line numbers *on top* of what the depth is doing. I'd just feel more comfortable if they would put the puck in the net a little more than just once in a while. So far, that really hasn't happened.

[RockyMountainWingGal 108]

It's really hard to watch Crosby and Kane and Getzlaf tear up the highlight reels and not expect the same from our superstars.

Oh the Wings have plenty of highlight reels aired on ESPN, NHLN, TSN, VS etc. They are just of Franzen, Cleary, Helm, Sammy, etc. And that is fine with me as long as they are clad in a red wheel.

Plus Dats and Z have set up some very timely, awesome goals (Dats to Sammy in game 7, Z to Cleary in game 7).

That 3 on 1 last night was a thing of beauty - Huds to Flip to Sammy - saw that one replayed ALOT.

[Dabura 12,232]

I agree with that (and the rest of your post for that matter), but I'm not looking for the Wings' top line to be putting up normal, playoff top-line numbers on top of what the depth is doing. I'd just feel more comfortable if they would put the puck in the net once a while. So far, that really hasn't happened.

Don't get me wrong, so would I. It definitely makes me uneasy. But I guess as long as the goals keep coming, I'm not worried. The Wings obviously have the 'hawks' D solved. Should they advance, I don't see the Pens' or 'canes' D being significantly more difficult to overcome.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Don't get me wrong, so would I. It definitely makes me uneasy. But I guess as long as the goals keep coming, I'm not worried. The Wings obviously have the 'hawks' D solved. Should they advance, I don't see the Pens' or 'canes' D being significantly more difficult to overcome.

As long as the goals keep coming, I'm not worried either. It's if they do stop, and the top line doesn't step up.

[Opie 308]

What does that have to do with the Wings' situation? Apples to oranges...the Wings have depth, the Ducks don't.

Wait didn't our apples just play those oranges and our apples won?

Plus if it is apples and oranges why was the Getzlaf etc.. scoring comment made?

EDIT: I would also compare the minutes (5v5, pk, pp) of Oranges players to Apples players, might be a slight difference

My point is their big guns that were referred to by others (See the I would like to see our big guns put up numbers the way Getzlaf, etc.. comment) are no longer (other than Crosby) in the playoffs.

You can not ride a one line team to the cup, why because eventually some one will figure you out.

Here comes the kicker ready,

The Ducks (oranges) NEED, have to have, can not live without, their top line scoring, the Wings (Apples, and supposedly most people on here favorite team, supposedly before the s*** storm ensues, not you NFM) do not need Hossa and Dats to score, would it make it easier to take and would I feel more confident, sure!. But the Oranges need the top 3 scoring, the Apples would like the top 3 scoring but the system the Apples use focuses on D first then O.

Say what you want about Hossa, but is he out there floating around, he is being beat to pucks, is he not using position to control the puck?

Or is this a case of My team is winning (Cake) and I want it the way I want it (eat it too).

Apples and Oranges to you, to me Cake and eat it too!

Difference of opinions.

Edited May 20, 2009 by Opie

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Wait didn't our apples just play those oranges and our apples won?

Since when did anyone decide the Wings got to be apples and the Ducks got to be oranges?

Yes, and its wonderful that they won. It's still cause for concern though if our depth stops putting the puck in the net. That's my point.

Plus if it is apples and oranges why was the Getzlaf etc.. scoring comment made?

It wasn't me that made that comment.

My point is their big guns that were referred to by others (See the I would like to see our big guns put up numbers the way Getzlaf, etc.. comment) are no longer (other than Crosby) in the playoffs.

You can not ride a one line team to the cup, why because eventually some one will figure you out.

I know you can't ride a one-line team to the cup. We all know that. That has nothing to do with what I'm saying. The Wings are getting balanced scoring from their 2nd and 3rd lines currently. What happens if all of a sudden that 3rd line cools off and a shut-down line is then successful against Z's line?

This is why I want to see Dats' line start to click. It's another bullet in the gun in case one line starts to cool off.

Here comes the kicker ready,

The Ducks (oranges) NEED, have to have, can not live without, their top line scoring, the Wings (Apples, and supposedly most people on here favorite team, supposedly) do not need Hossa and Dats to score, would it make it easier to take and would I feel more confident, sure!. But the Oranges need the top 3 scoring, the Apples would like the top 3 scoring but the system the Apples use focuses on D first then O.

Not currently.

Here comes the kicker ready,

The Ducks (oranges) NEED, have to have, can not live without, their top line scoring, the Wings (Apples, and supposedly most people on here favorite team, supposedly) do not need Hossa and Dats to score, would it make it easier to take and would I feel more confident, sure!. But the Oranges need the top 3 scoring, the Apples would like the top 3 scoring but the system the Apples use focuses on D first then O.

Difference of opinions.

That's honestly all I've been saying. I'm not one of those fans you're referring to that's calling for Dats' and Hossa's heads. I'd just like to see them pick up their game on the scoreboard as well.

Say what you want about Hossa, but is he out there floating around, he is being beat to pucks, is he not using position to control the puck?

Or is this a case of My team is winning (Cake) and I want it the way I want it (eat it too).

Apples and Oranges to you, to me Cake and eat it too!

Difference of opinions.

It's not about apples and oranges or having your cake and eating it too....to me atleast. To me, its about firing on *all* cylinders at the most important time of the year.

[Opie 308]

NFM,

My first comment was not aimed at you and if you took it that way I am sorry, but that is the one you quoted, after I made my (albeit generic and non -poster specific) comment. So I thought you were questioning my point, therefore I replied.

No disrespect you are one of the few good posters around here that I respect.

EDIT:

I agree, firing on all cylinders would be the best case scenario, however currently that is not what is being asked of them. First priority for every forward on this team is D. They are, that makes me happy, they are not firing on all cylinders but neither were they all season, defense was the problem while Dats and Hossa carried the team, now they are probably a little tired, and the D is caring them.

Karma baby, karma!

Edited May 20, 2009 by Opie

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

NFM,

My first comment was not aimed at you and if you took it that way I am sorry, but that is the one you quoted, after I made my (albeit generic and non -poster specific) comment. So I thought you were questioning my point, therefore I replied.

No disrespect you are one of the few good posters around here that I respect.

EDIT:

I agree, firing on all cylinders would be the best case scenario, however currently that is not what is being asked of them. First priority for every forward on this team is D. They are, that makes me happy, they are not firing on all cylinders but neither were they all season, defense was the problem while Dats and Hossa carried the team, now they are probably a little tired, and the D is caring them.

Karma baby, karma!

I completely agree with you that the first priority is Defense. I'll never waver from that philosophy. That being said, I disagree that its not what's currently being asked of them, because it is...and rightfully so. These guys (Dats and Hossa) are paid the salary they are to do both. I'm not downplaying the job they're doing on defense, but they are being asked to score.

As for being tired....that could be one explanation, but I wonder why they didn't look this way last postseason or even up until the start of the playoffs. Sure the playoffs are a grind and a totally different beast, but you gotta think mature competitors like Dats and Hossa would step it up regardless. TBH, I think both of them are simply over-thinking every offensive move right now. The second Dats finds the back of the net or has a multi-assist game, I think we'll see the Pavel we're all used to.

Edit: No worries about the first comment...I knew you weren't referring to me.

[reggin 0]

No Lidstrom makes more - Holland won't pay anyone more than Nick, and rightfully so.

Something about Dats and Hossa together - they are both snakebit, but seemingly when you watch they are not all playing all that poorly.

When one of them pulls what Campbell did tonight, then I'll chime in...

You're wrong but its a common mistake.. Wings cap hit this season:

1. Hossa 7.45 mill

2. Lidstrom 7.45 mill

3. Datsyuk 6.7 mill

Regardless, hes getting paid on par with one of the best defenseman of all time and a Hart/Pearson/Selke/Byng nominee, 100 point scoring center.

Hossa is paid well and hasn't shown up. Even if Datsyuk isn't scoring, he still makes plays, sets guys up, plays defense and lays the body.

Hossa does none of this and he gives up on plays before they're dead.

How about this? Hossa, on his patent "Dump n' chase" into the corner, dumps the puck in on Brian Campbell and instead of letting him have the puck, why not drill him into the boards?

Hossa is soft... almost on par with Franzen and Kopecky.

What the Wings really need is a big man, who can skate and has enough skill to play a puck possession game.

[Guest Shoreline]

You're wrong but its a common mistake.. Wings cap hit this season:

1. Hossa 7.45 mill

2. Lidstrom 7.45 mill

3. Datsyuk 6.7 mill

Regardless, hes getting paid on par with one of the best defenseman of all time and a Hart/Pearson/Selke/Byng nominee, 100 point scoring center.

Hossa is paid well and hasn't shown up. Even if Datsyuk isn't scoring, he still makes plays, sets guys up, plays defense and lays the body.

Hossa does none of this and he gives up on plays before they're dead.

How about this? Hossa, on his patent "Dump n' chase" into the corner, dumps the puck in on Brian Campbell and instead of letting him have the puck, why not drill him into the boards?

Hossa is soft... almost on par with Franzen and Kopecky.

What the Wings really need is a big man, who can skate and has enough skill to play a puck possession game.

What do you mean wrong? RMWG was exactly right that no one gets paid more than Nick, and you just proved it.

Btw, where'd you get your username from?

[soonboomer 31]

Would you trade Hoss for any of these guys? (I wouldn't!!).....By the way, the thing they all have in common is that their 2008-2009 salaries were all at least $7 million.

Lubomir Visnovsky

Brad Richards

Marian Gaborik

Scott Gomez

Wade Redden

Michal Rozsival

Jason Spezza

Kimmo Timonen

Mats Sundin

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Two guys whose salary is also $7M+:

Nicklas Lidstrom

Brian Campbell

lolz

[reggin 0]

Would you trade Hoss for any of these guys? (I wouldn't!!).....By the way, the thing they all have in common is that their 2008-2009 salaries were all at least $7 million.

Lubomir Visnovsky

Brad Richards

Marian Gaborik

Scott Gomez

Wade Redden

Michal Rozsival

Jason Spezza

Kimmo Timonen

Mats Sundin

Gaborik, absolutely. Hes played in a very strict defensive style his entire career. He is also a great playmaker on top of being a very good goal scorer.