This time it will be different

[BewareThePenguin 1]

Fleury gets paid 6 million a year to make those saves.. Osgood on the other hand gets paid 1.2.. Its funny which goalies turn out to be clutch come playoff time..

Anyways thats how winning teams score in the playoff, garbage goals...not by making pretty plays against s***ty defence. Young crosby and you young pen fans will learn that some year...welll maybe... Pens still had plenty of chances but couldnt finish, oh well..

I covered this too already. Osgood's been lucky a lot the first two games, but he's also made some stellar stops.

It's his ability to step up in big, not small games, that shows his excellence. Clutch is exactly right.

I don't think that much-maligned Pens' defense has been too shabby, in fact I think they've done a pretty good job so far. It's Fleury who's allowed some awful goals, it's not Scuderi or Gill's fault.

You admit yourself the Pens had plenty of chances -- again, that's the total opposite of last year, after two games.

I'd say that's been pretty "different" then, wouldn't you?

[Esquire 324]

[REDHASEK 0]

The Red Wings Have Yet to Detroit Red Wings Hockey, and when they do the Pens are domed sorry but they are. And they the Pens have to realize that we are not the North Stars back an 1991 who are going to say what they are going to do when they win the cup like the North Starts did when they were up 2-0 and end up losing an 6 games.

Edited June 1, 2009 by REDHASEK

[OsGOD 3]

i dont really focus on or look at the in betweens.... during a playoff run its the team that can rise above all else and get one more point in a game 16 times that wins.... whether that be garbage, talent or luck.... fact of the matter is down 2-0 going back to Mellan is the Exact Same as last year... nothing is different.

[Opie 308]

Different means same result.

Wings win!

All that matters is what the end result is, not that they tried hard, this isn't a youth basketball league where everyone gets a trophy for showing up!

You came out all bravado about how this time it would be different, now that it looks eerily the same or worse you are backing down and saying, what I meant was they will loser closer games instead of being blown out.

How in the hell are you still posting here!

BEWARE THE TROLL!

[MIN8TV 0]

Would you not agree that 2 of Detroit's goals last night were rather soft?

Would you not agree that there are lucky bounces in every sport? The lucky bounce off the rim and the shot goes in? The baseball hitting the top of the wall and bouncing over for a homerun? The lucky bounce off the receivers hands and it falls right into the hands of the defender and he runs it back for a TD? Why do you even bring up the nature of the goal? Who cares?! A goal is a goal. Just like one of the announcers said last night; "Detroit's hard work creates the lucky chances." Leave all the "lucky", "soft", etc... talk alone.

[RoninJai 5]

It's Fleury who's allowed some awful goals, it's not Scuderi or Gill's fault.

It's both their faults, poor D and poor goaltending. Look no further than that Abdelkader goal. Kader was pretty much the only Red Wings on the ice, as the other 4 went off on shift change. He was for sure the only one in the zone. There were two Pittsburgh defensemen on him, and another Pen nearby, and yet he scores from the top of the faceoff circle.

[BewareThePenguin 1]

It seems like Pens fans here want us to feel sorry for their team, or to acknowledge that their team is good. Most of their fans can't even acknowledge that the Wings won the first 2 games, or the Cup last year for that matter.

I do think the Pens are a good team, but I don't think their style of hockey can beat the Wings. I even started a thread about it a few days ago. They're not a defensive minded team, because they think offense first. Those types of teams haven't had any success against us in recent memory.

Nobody's looking for your validation.

Not everyone is in denial about Detroit's excellence either, which you'd see if you read my original post.

I disagree that it's about some "style" the Pens have that automatically prevents them from winning. If we look at the game yesterday for example, Detroit had one goal due to a Pens' players broken stick (after a successful power play kill) and one see-what-sticks toss up from a mile away that Fleury goofed miserably on. Would you argue with that at all? Meanwhile, the Pens hit the post 3 or 4 times, somehow Crosby's shot missed sliding inside the line AND ricocheting off Osgood from behind in the most incredible non-score I've seen in years. (What are the odds of that?)

I'd say it was more about breaks, than style. That doesn't take away from what Detroit did, either. It's just to say, if not for a matter of half-inches, the Pens could've put up 4 or 5 goals last night. Woulda coulda or not -- that doesn't change the fact the game had a chance to go either way. See my point?

[OsGOD 3]

Gill is one massive human...

[BewareThePenguin 1]

It's both their faults, poor D and poor goaltending. Look no further than that Abdelkader goal. Kader was pretty much the only Red Wings on the ice, as the other 4 went off on shift change. He was for sure the only one in the zone. There were two Pittsburgh defensemen on him, and another Pen nearby, and yet he scores from the top of the faceoff circle.

His goal last night was no different than Saturday's -- the puck flew right to him somehow and he was able to control it down to the ice and shoot. That's as much luck as skill. But that's not even the main point. Are you seriously going to tell me the blind shot he put up should've been anything but a routine save? C'mon now.

Again -- this time the Wings needed some breaks to win. Last year they didn't. My point proven again.

[Firehawk 305]

Oh and by the way, we haven't even shown our Hart Trophy candidate. This series is done. Congrats on 'playing better'. At this point last year, you scored 0 goals and now you've scored 2. Your goalie is still a head case, and your team doesn't play solid, shut down defense. But you want to win the cup, and you want us Wings fans to sit here and tell you that your team is better than Detroit...ok. GIve me a break.

The Pens have played their best game and lost. The wings have been tired from the last series (it's obvious) and haven't played Red Wing hockey yet. Penguins are doomed.

I love how this scheduling thing completely backfired on Bettman and the Penguins as well. Back to Back SCF games and shortening up the length of time off to 2 days for Detroit, being banged up, almost certainly would take home ice advantage away from any other team.

The fact that Detroit won both games without playing their best, and without their top defensive forward (which Pens have no idea what this term means), is unbelievable. The wings win back to back games, and embarrass Crosby and Bettman on national ******* television.

I love it.

[RoninJai 5]

I'd say it was more about breaks, than style. That doesn't take away from what Detroit did, either. It's just to say, if not for a matter of half-inches, the Pens could've put up 4 or 5 goals last night. Woulda coulda or not -- that doesn't change the fact the game had a chance to go either way. See my point?

But that's not valid logic. You could just as easily say, well, if a bunch of the Wings misses would have been hits, it would have been 10-1 instead of just 3-1.

[Cern 0]

Gill is one massive human...

Yeah, they nicknamed him The Brick Wall.

That said, it's because he just kinda stands there...

[Opie 308]

Your s***ty goaltending is a by product of your scouts, coach, gm, and lastly your Goaltender himself, not luck on the Wings part.

Please acknowledge that both of the goals Pit has scored this series were lucky and I will concede that the Wings have been luckier.

Until then, in my book you have a s***ty goaltender when it comes to SCF, his ass has scored more goals in the SCF than most of the Pit team! Unfortunately his ass has scored for our team!

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

His goal last night was no different than Saturday's -- the puck flew right to him somehow and he was able to control it down to the ice and shoot. That's as much luck as skill. But that's not even the main point. Are you seriously going to tell me the blind shot he put up should've been anything but a routine save? C'mon now.

Again -- this time the Wings needed some breaks to win. Last year they didn't. My point proven again.

Actually, the Penguins are clearly the ones that "needed breaks" but couldn't get them. By the time the Wings got their leads, they played solid defensively because there was no more need to push. Who's to say they wouldn't have gotten other goals had Abdelkader not scored either of those early third period goals.

Any team that wins the Stanley Cup has had breaks. You don't win it without them. That doesn't make it any less of an accomplishment.

[tommingthepuck96 1]

I covered this too already. Osgood's been lucky a lot the first two games, but he's also made some stellar stops.

It's his ability to step up in big, not small games, that shows his excellence. Clutch is exactly right.

I don't think that much-maligned Pens' defense has been too shabby, in fact I think they've done a pretty good job so far. It's Fleury who's allowed some awful goals, it's not Scuderi or Gill's fault.

You admit yourself the Pens had plenty of chances -- again, that's the total opposite of last year, after two games.

I'd say that's been pretty "different" then, wouldn't you?

Like someone else said, you want people to feel sorry for the pens? If fleury cant make big saves, or if crosby cant finish those chances then your going to lose, especially against the best team in the NHL. If either of those big plays dont happen, chances are the pens are going to lose 9 out of 10 times.

I'd say that's been pretty "different" then, wouldn't you?

You cant expect the games to be identical to last year. Anyways it can be different every single game from last year. Fact of the matter is the pens are not winning games. The pens can play 20 times better than last year, but if they cant come out with the W 4 of the next 5 times, the pens and their fans can think how it could have different all summer long.

Edited June 1, 2009 by tommingthepuck96

[hooon 1,089]

lol at how you say Abdelkader controlling the puck and shooting is 'luck'. The fact that fleury was incapable of making the save is luck? What a delusional point of view you are displaying. i think you need to reassess your definition of the word luck. If fleury is not playing well, that has nothing to do with the wings being lucky, it has to do with fleury playing badly.

Of course you attribute the shots off the post as 'luck' as well. How is hitting the post bad luck? They didnt shoot the puck properly, they missed their target.... no different than missing the goal all together.

There is no magical force controlling this series.

Lastly, what on earth are you trying to argue here? This is a different year than last year, and yes of course if you break down every single play it is a different series. I wish you would stop making these highly irrelevant threads. Honestly, what difference does it make if the pens are playing slightly different than they did a year ago. Why are you still trying arguing an inarguable point?

[Opie 308]

lol at how you say Abdelkader controlling the puck and shooting is 'luck'. The fact that fleury was incapable of making the save is luck? What a delusional point of view you are displaying. i think you need to reassess your definition of the word luck. If fleury is not playing well, that has nothing to do with the wings being lucky, it has to do with fleury playing badly.

Of course you attribute the shots off the post as 'luck' as well. How is hitting the post bad luck? They didnt shoot the puck properly, they missed their target.... no different than missing the goal all together.

There is no magical force controlling this series.

Lastly, what on earth are you trying to argue here? This is a different year than last year, and yes of course if you break down every single play it is a different series. I wish you would stop making these highly irrelevant threads. Honestly, what difference does it make if the pens are playing slightly different than they did a year ago. Why are you still trying arguing an inarguable point?

Because he is a blatant and obvious troll!

[hooon 1,089]

he has also systematically avoided every single one of my responses to his insightful and extremely necessary threads. i'd be curious to see if he can address any issues we have so far put forth, rather than repeat himself and reiterate the same asinine points over and over.

[Datsyerberger 279]

Yea, it's different this time. Our AHLers are scoring a large portion of our goals/points on you instead of Mikael Samuelsson.

[HudlerFanatic 4]

WOW I always hated ESPN and then I read this and think, WOW they are dumber then a box of rocks.

• Even without the Wings' injuries, this series looked to be tilting in favor of the Pittsburgh Penguins given the exceptional play of Crosby and Malkin. But with the Wings banged up and missing key ingredients (or having key ingredients not at their best), the Penguins are suddenly the clear-cut favorites to win their first Cup since 1992. Penguins in six.

Scott Burnside covers the NHL for ESPN.com.

ROFF'nLMAO! HAHA! Apparently ESPN didn't watch ANY of the games against Chicago w/ key players out b/c of injuries. And this whole...'pittsburg has another year of experience"...crap...... ,so do the Wings.....it's not like they didn't just put another year of hockey experience notch on their belt too! Geez......the Wings have players on their team that know how to step up and play the game when the top players may not be able to do it! THAT is what makes them a great team....not one or two players......BUT ALL OF THEM! That's why they are CHAMPIONS.....b/c every one on the team plays....(yes, some not so well sometimes) but who doesn't make mistakes.?????!!!!?????

[Frozen-Man 144]

First of BewareThePenguin all this luck and bounces talk is just nonsense. We are playing without our Hart candidate, NOTHING that has happened to the Pens will compensate for that amount of luck for your team. You take away your Hart candidate then we can talk about luck.

There will be no bumper pool off the boards goals in Pittsburgh, game 3 and 4 will be a real meter of whether on not the Pens can compete yet with the Wings. I don't like how the first two games turned out, but I am happy with the Pen's effort.

Psst - those board bounce for both teams, maybe the Pens should have practiced there before the games. Oh and I didn't hear that as an excuse last year, I guess it was just pretty far down the list and heaven knows the Pens fans have got to be getting toward the end of that long list.

Would you not at least concede the Pens could've won either game, had they caught a couple breaks or bounces? Would you not agree that 2 of Detroit's goals last night were rather soft, and due more to poor goalie play than anything the Wings player did? Again, you tell me.

Yeah and if Pens goals counted quadruple they could have won too, but they didn't and they don't because what is important is what actually happened. Had other things happened / not happened the Wings could have won both games 8-0 but that is not reality.

Furthermore, poor play by your goalie is not bad breaks or bounces IT IS POOR PLAY BY YOUR TEAM.

This is why debating with 90 percent of you here is about impossible.

Says the guy who starts a thread on the Wings site ripping Z (which in the converse would get you banned from pens forums, but it is more reasonable here) and then attributes Wings success to good luck and Pens failures to bad luck. Yeah its easy to debate who is more lucky.

If we look at the game yesterday for example, Detroit had one goal due to a Pens' players broken stick (after a successful power play kill) and one see-what-sticks toss up from a mile away that Fleury goofed miserably on. Would you argue with that at all? Meanwhile, the Pens hit the post 3 or 4 times, somehow Crosby's shot missed sliding inside the line AND ricocheting off Osgood from behind in the most incredible non-score I've seen in years. (What are the odds of that?)

I'd say it was more about breaks, than style. That doesn't take away from what Detroit did, either. It's just to say, if not for a matter of half-inches, the Pens could've put up 4 or 5 goals last night. Woulda coulda or not -- that doesn't change the fact the game had a chance to go either way. See my point?

I love the ability to look at everything in this light. Anything that the Pens did that didn't result in a goal was bad luck. I have an idea how about instead of hitting the post they put it in the net, ultimately the reason that their post shots didn't result in goals was they didn't even get the shot on net. Had they managed to actually shoot at the net rather than the post it would be a moot point. I realize they were close but they were not shots that would go in the net. If the shots had been better i.e. 1 inch to the inside then yeah its a goal but that isn't where they shot soooooooo no goal. Most amazingly you attribute your team's goalie's bad play and inability to stop "soft" goals as luck. If that is the case every team wins because the other team is lucky that their goalie let in more goals.

Everything that was positive for the Wings was good luck. The broken stick was the result of hard work on the part of Detroit and Hossa getting the defender turned so he actually hit Hossa's skate with his stick it, it happens both teams got similar "good luck" the difference is Detroit scored goals when they had advantages and the Pens didn't. Do you really think that the Pens never had any of the breaks (bounces, broken sticks, missed calls, etc.) that the Wings did? All teams get those it is just the best teams that capitalize. Please do not belittle the game, the teams, or the players with such nonsense.

It's just to say, if not for a matter of half-inches, the Pens could've put up 4 or 5 goals last night.

Those are some pretty important half inches and it is your players job to

His goal last night was no different than Saturday's -- the puck flew right to him somehow and he was able to control it down to the ice and shoot. That's as much luck as skill. But that's not even the main point. Are you seriously going to tell me the blind shot he put up should've been anything but a routine save? C'mon now.

Again -- this time the Wings needed some breaks to win.

First off it was not as much luck as it was skill. The Pens had plenty of players around the puck on both plays, (2 to 1 on the second goal) and could not do what Abby did or there would have been no goal. Just because our players managed to do what yours could not doesn't make it luck. Second,

IT WAS NOT A "BREAK" IT WAS A 1 OFFENSIVE PLAYER AGAINST 2 DEFENSIVE PLAYERS AND A GOALIE - NEITHER D MAN COULD GET THE PUCK OR STOP HIM FROM TAKING A SHOT AND THE GOALIE. IT DIDN'T CAROM OFF ANYTHING OR DO ANYTHING WEIRD. IT WAS EITHER 1) A GREAT OFFENSIVE PLAY OR 2) HORRIBLE GOAL KEEPING / DEFENSE. Either way neither of those is a break it is playing well vs. playing poorly. Don't attribute your guys mistakes to a break for our team.

[cirov19 1]

Before I begin, some people on this forum make me embarrassed to be a wings fan.

This series appears to be over but it's not until the Cup is in our (hopefully) hands. While we aren't Washington you can't forget that Pittsburgh came back from that series to win it. So stop rubbing it in until it happens.

And stop calling the poor man a troll. He's one of the more reasonable Pens fans and all he's doing is stating his opinion. You're allowed to disagree without being an idiot.

Finally, to the OP and every other Pens fan:

Pittsburgh is a good team. Detroit is a better team.

Detroit has been getting lucky breaks, yes, but so has Pittsburgh. It's part of the game. The better team will find a way to win.

We are NOT being outplayed by the Pens by any means. I will admit that the play has been equal at the least but you have only had a couple of really solid chances; a lot of your shots are weak, (I respect how you think we've had weak goals but you take them how you get em - you don't see us whining about Stuart scoring your only goal yesterday), and your play in our offensive end does not even compare to our play in your offensive end - save a couple of really good efforts.

And please... a win is a win. Leave it at that. Stop making up excuses. "Detroit got lucky" is possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard. That's a ******* slap to the face. Detroit wins for a reason. We haven't been the winningest team for 82 games for the past 17 seasons because of "luck."

[hillbillywingsfan 794]

Not the point at all.

This is why debating with 90 percent of you here is about impossible.

yeah so lets post a thread thats saying how much respect you lost for a loved player by us fans when all zetta was doing was doing what every other pens player should do...thats a good way to debate at a wings board. you keep saying that and your buddy keeps using the 90% figure.....come with me to a pens board and lets see what the figure would be if i were to post what you did and use malkin or corsby...how far would i get before i got kicked banned? and btw...if this board is so bad why do you keep posting here? is it to cause unrest with us wings fans? trolling???

[BewareThePenguin 1]

First of BewareThePenguin all this luck and bounces talk is just nonsense. We are playing without our Hart candidate, NOTHING that has happened to the Pens will compensate for that amount of luck for your team. You take away your Hart candidate then we can talk about luck.

Psst - those board bounce for both teams, maybe the Pens should have practiced there before the games. Oh and I didn't hear that as an excuse last year, I guess it was just pretty far down the list and heaven knows the Pens fans have got to be getting toward the end of that long list.

Yeah and if Pens goals counted quadruple they could have won too, but they didn't and they don't because what is important is what actually happened. Had other things happened / not happened the Wings could have won both games 8-0 but that is not reality.

Furthermore, poor play by your goalie is not bad breaks or bounces IT IS POOR PLAY BY YOUR TEAM.

Says the guy who starts a thread on the Wings site ripping Z (which in the converse would get you banned from pens forums, but it is more reasonable here) and then attributes Wings success to good luck and Pens failures to bad luck. Yeah its easy to debate who is more lucky.

IT WAS NOT A "BREAK" IT WAS A 1 OFFENSIVE PLAYER AGAINST 2 DEFENSIVE PLAYERS AND A GOALIE - NEITHER D MAN COULD GET THE PUCK OR STOP HIM FROM TAKING A SHOT AND THE GOALIE. IT DIDN'T CAROM OFF ANYTHING OR DO ANYTHING WEIRD. IT WAS EITHER 1) A GREAT OFFENSIVE PLAY OR 2) HORRIBLE GOAL KEEPING / DEFENSE. Either way neither of those is a break it is playing well vs. playing poorly. Don't attribute your guys mistakes to a break for our team.

Yeah, you're right -- it's that Western Conference superiority that causes the puck to hit the post 3 times, 0.0005 inches from going inside the basket. I should've known. Pure defensive skill on the part of the Detroit players, showing what a real defensive team can do.

And yeah, all they did was yank my reasoned post about Zetterberg, no biggie (rolls eyes).