Do you trade Flip in order to sign Hossa?

[dragonballgtz 273]

I would take Flip currently. He has not even hit his prime which Hossa is in already and there is no telling how long the contract would have to be in order for it to work for the Wings. If Hossa signs at 4 we still save some cap wiggle room by keeping Flip which could come in handy at the trade deadline.

The only way I see if trading Flip would help out is if the draft picks or prospects we get are top six capable.

[jvxp 0]

If it was up to me Hossa would be gone. There's no cap room.

[Mors 201]

The thing I want to know is the possibility Hossa can make a deal of 4-5 million. I seriously see no way Hossa can stay in the Wings. He is worth at least 6.5 - 7 millon. He can get even more salary from other teams. Besides, we don't have to forget Leino who stated he surely want to be in the Wings next season, not the Griffins.

Besides, I agree with YoungGuns1340, I am not going to stop criticizing Filppula's skill or play performance until he puts up at least 60 points. In this season, he was on the third line. Next year, he is guaranteed to play on the 2nd line and if he still does not play that well next season, I am going to concern deeply.

It makes no sense if this thread talks about Filppula against Hossa.

It is story Filppula, Samuelsson, Hudler, Conklin against one guy called Hossa. Samuelsson should be gone and I see Hudler will be gone too. Leino should stay hee.

The reason I don't want to trade Filppula is because of his skill and talent even though he is a bit over-estimated in this board. We will see next season.

To end, if Holland really makes a deal with Hossa for 4 million, I am going to call him the best GM ever in all professional leagues.

Keep in mind that Hossa has already made over $40 million in his career, he's not hurting for money. If stability and professionalism are what he's looking for, then Detroit may be the place for him even if it means taking less money. We'll just have to see what happens in the coming weeks...

[Theophany 110]

Am I the only one that doesn't think much of Filpula since he's been here? Seriously...the guy disappears for LOOONG stretches in the regular season and doesn't do a ton for us in the playoffs. He always skates the outside with the puck (alot like hossa did in the SCF).

We're paying him what, 3m right now? He scored us 40 pts in the regular season...and 18 goals +9. Big deal. You're paying Franzen 4m a year and he scored 71 pts and 40 goals and was +21.

I do'nt know. Filpula played pretty well in the playoffs for us with 16 pts and a +8, but only 3 goals. in 2008 cup run he has 11 pts with 5 goals and a +7. I guess I'd like to see what he does in the next playoff run...but I just don't know. I voted yes.

Hossa is a better talent and I have to think he would have had a better SCF if it were against any other team other than Pit.

Pretty ridiculous comparisons when Franzen got 2 mins more of ATOI during the season. 2 mins multiplied by the 71 games he played = 142 more minutes played. Just gonna guess that he can score a few more goals or get a few more assists with more than 2 full games more of playing time than Filppula got.

Filppula is the future of the organization. He's going to be part of the transfer from Zata and Pavel's generation of players to the new generation that are younger than Helm and Abdelkader right now.

[datterberg1340 626]

I'd keep Flip for a number of reasons. He's only 25, we have him for 4 more years with a cap hit of only $3 mil, and he's getting better. He should get much more power play time this season which will help his overall numbers and he had a very solid playoff performance this year. If he gains more confidence in his shot he could be a 25-30 goal scorer with 70-75 point potential.

Ultimately it depends on how much the cap changes(it would have to go up at least $3 or 4 mil to get Hossa back and fill our other holes) and how much of a discount Hossa would be willing to take. I doubt he'd take a cap hit much less than what Zetterberg's is, I mean the guy is still worth and can get a deal at at least $6 mil per year. I just don't seeing us being able to make that fit.

Besides, even if the cap goes up this year, a lot of people are worried it will go down the following year and from what I've heard the labor agreement is very unforgiving to teams that would be over the cap if it lowers. I believe they would be forced to either trade or buyout players' contracts.

[RockyMountainWingGal 108]

What the f*&^ is wrong with you people that keep suggesting trading Flip? A guy that has been consistently good the last PO runs, and is young and improving. Maybe our best playmaker of the postseason, esp with Dats out for an extended period of time.

To make room for a guy that totally disappeared in the biggest series of his life? No way Jose. If a Hossa deal is done, it cannot be at the expense of core Red Wings playoff performers. I have to think Kenny is on to this since he is obviously so much smarter than us on these matters. Flip is going nowhere....

[gcom007 1,465]

Yes. He's replaceable. We'd have a hole in the roster next year for a stronger 2nd/3rd line center, but we could find someone in 2010/11 once some more cap space opens up to fill it up. One year of giving someone who's unproven an opportunity to sign Hossa up for life is well worth it.

Flip will NEVER be Datsyuk. He's not even close. He's inconsistent. He doesn't have the fire. He doesn't finish plays. He'll peak at 50 points for a couple years if he's lucky.

And besides, the simplest thing at play here whether we sign Hossa or not is that if we have to move someone, he's one of the only guys with a significant salary that doesn't have a NTC. That gives the Wings a lot more flexibility considering he also would likely draw more attention than any of our guys that do have the NTC. The Wings have a deep system. We can fill holes from within fairly well more often than not and again, we've really got to get through one, again, ONE really tight season before things level out a bit.

So, again........if it takes losing Flip to sign Hossa for life, by all means, bring on the draft picks. We tend to know what to do with them...

[egroen 384]

I see Filppula's very optimistic ceiling at 60 points...

do a lot of you think I am drastically underrating him?

Edited June 19, 2009 by egroen

[gcom007 1,465]

As of right now, Hossa is on a completely different level than Filppula. He's a 40-50 goal scorer and does a lot more for our second line than Filppula. If we can keep Hossa for $4 mil per year, its the steal of the century and we'd be insane not to do it.

40-50 goals at $4 (even 5...) million cap hit plus Selke-quality defensive play

40-50 points at $3 million cap hit plus very few goals, inconsistency and moderate defensive play

This is a no-brainer.

If fans were more rational, this poll would be heavily lopsided to the yes. I'm betting at least 90% of the yes's also thought Osgood was done and would've started Conklin...

[gcom007 1,465]

I see Filppula's very optimistic ceiling at 60 points...

do a lot of you think I am drastically underrating him?

Actually, I think you're overrating him. I think an optimistic ceiling is 50 points. He absolutely is not a goal scorer. He doesn't have any "finish" in him. He just doesn't have the same kind of fire that guys like Datsyuk and Zetterberg have. That's fine and all, but the only reason people around here get all hot and heavy over him is because they think he's going to turn out to be another Dats or Z. It ain't going to happen. From day 1, those guys looked like future superstars. They had all the makings and just needed time. Flip absolutely does not have those makings. Again, the guy doesn't have the fire to finish a play with any sort of regularity.

[gcom007 1,465]

What the f*&^ is wrong with you people that keep suggesting trading Flip? A guy that has been consistently good the last PO runs, and is young and improving. Maybe our best playmaker of the postseason, esp with Dats out for an extended period of time.

To make room for a guy that totally disappeared in the biggest series of his life? No way Jose. If a Hossa deal is done, it cannot be at the expense of core Red Wings playoff performers. I have to think Kenny is on to this since he is obviously so much smarter than us on these matters. Flip is going nowhere....

Kenny also signed Datsyuk when people like you were saying the same stuff about him that you all are about Hossa. Superstars and superstars and they'll be superstars if you give them the chance. While I have no doubt that no one in the organization would be thrilled about losing Flip, I also have no doubt that everyone in the organization knows who has the greatest potential to contribute to this team long run. Hossa consistently scores more goals than Flip puts up points plus he's outstanding in our end. He also out-hustled the rest of the team all year. Things happen in the playoffs at times but I have no doubt that if he hangs around, he'll be HUGE for us next year.

And lastly, while I'm just speculating, I'm still not convinced that Hossa was 100% through the playoffs. Through the first two rounds he took more than a few huge hits that I was shocked to see him get up from as well as he did, and even so, he wobbled off the ice. I don't remember specific games or instances even sans one, but I know there were at least 4-5 times where he was run big-time and blatantly shaken up. There was one in particular against the Ducks when he was held behind the net by Pronger before another Duck leveled him. Maybe he didn't have a pulled groin or a herniated disc, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was a ways away from 100% in terms of generally being banged up. It happens. It messes with your mind and your body when you get run as many times as he did too. Datsyuk's been there before and he's come around. I have total faith in Hossa's ability to do the same. If he wasn't hungry before, he'll be hungry as hell now and more than ever, he'll want to prove himself to a city that he knows is doubting him.

Superstars will find a way if given the chance. He's done more than enough in his career to prove that he deserves that chance.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Why?

Are you saying he would never trade someone the wings drafted? Are we stuck with Kopecky forever then?

Yes in that we'll never find a team to take him off our hands.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

I see Filppula's very optimistic ceiling at 60 points...

do a lot of you think I am drastically underrating him?

Really? You're overrating him.

45-50 pts is a fair ceiling for him. The playoffs this year was his best stretch of hockey in his career (note I said stretch, we're not talking a 5 game streak here). If we give him an 82 game streak of that hockey with not even a game slump, he's at 57 pts. That seems pretty good on the surface, but we all tried to calculate Zetterberg's 82 game total back in December of last year and we were pretty disappointed at the end of the year that he didn't hit 150 pts Well I was

Filppula is a well rounded centre with s***ty finish. If Filppula had Hudlers hands he'd easily be a star player.

[gcom007 1,465]

Really? You're overrating him.

45-50 pts is a fair ceiling for him. The playoffs this year was his best stretch of hockey in his career (note I said stretch, we're not talking a 5 game streak here). If we give him an 82 game streak of that hockey with not even a game slump, he's at 57 pts. That seems pretty good on the surface, but we all tried to calculate Zetterberg's 82 game total back in December of last year and we were pretty disappointed at the end of the year that he didn't hit 150 pts Well I was

Filppula is a well rounded centre with s***ty finish. If Filppula had Hudlers hands he'd easily be a star player.

Well said. You're right on with the "5 game streak" line which really summarizes the manner in which Flip collects points. He's a fine player at $3 million. He's worth the money. He earns it. But when you've got a guy like Hossa that most teams would drop $7-8 million for who might play for $4 million.................................good luck with your next team Flip...

[Z and D for the C 712]

They had all the makings and just needed time. Flip absolutely does not have those makings. Again, the guy doesn't have the fire to finish a play with any sort of regularity.

This is just inconceivably false. It's ridiculously false. Doesn't have the fire? He and Zetterberg were our best overall skaters this past playoffs.

Filpulla isn't going to be a Datsyuk or Zetterberg, but he's the player, apart Zetterberg, Datsyuk and maybe ericcson with the most potential. Filppula will have a 70 point season before his contract is up, probably 2.

Filppula hands are better than Hudlers.

[egroen 384]

Really? You're overrating him.

45-50 pts is a fair ceiling for him. The playoffs this year was his best stretch of hockey in his career (note I said stretch, we're not talking a 5 game streak here). If we give him an 82 game streak of that hockey with not even a game slump, he's at 57 pts. That seems pretty good on the surface, but we all tried to calculate Zetterberg's 82 game total back in December of last year and we were pretty disappointed at the end of the year that he didn't hit 150 pts Well I was

Filppula is a well rounded centre with s***ty finish. If Filppula had Hudlers hands he'd easily be a star player.

I agree... I am just curious if a lot of the "he's the next Datsyuk" posters really think Flip is ever going to put up remotely close to a similar amount of points. I just don't see it, and thought 60 points was incredibly generous.

At the same time, Filppula does not deserve to get beaten down, just because he might not be "the next Datsyuk". Trades happen and he would be missed, but that does not mean it was a bad trade. Same goes for Hudler and Samuelsson.

I just would rather have Hudler setting up Franzen and Hossa (if he can be retained) than Filppula, who usually just gets those guys the puck, as opposed to actually setting up goals for them.

[Z and D for the C 712]

I worded my last post badly. Out of all the players in the wings organization, Filppula has the most potential to become the next closest Z/Dats. Filppula is only 24, it's not like he's 30.

[Z and D for the C 712]

Hes also been on the low-end of the checking spectrum. Depth players historically thrive in the playoffs because the key players are so heavily checked. The question is whether or not Filppula can make the transition.

I agree Filppula was great in these playoffs, but he comes up short of producing a lot of the time. Case in point - in the finals, Hossa was blanketed on every shift, while Filppula had much more time and space. What did he do with it? 2 points in 7 games, both goals assisted on by Hossa. It worries me that if Hossa is shut down, Filppula goes with him. If we're banking on Filppula being the 2nd line center, I'd like to see that shutting down his wingers doesn't mean shutting down Filppula, too.

Okay, so trade Flip, sign Hossa. Who centers the second line that won't crack under the pressure if his wingers are shut down?

Or are we all willing to basically call it quits on trying for the cup next year without a second line center just to sign hossa?

Flip is integral, and I'm sure there will be no arguing this point despite all the logic and evidence from his play this season so I'll just say I can't wait for you all to be proven wrong after Flip has stellar years in his future as a red wing. Take a look at the poll, you're outnumbered. But we're the ones that are wrong right? Filppula is a s***ty finisher, never mind the goals scored this year that scream finishing ability.

Edited June 19, 2009 by Z and D for the C

[gcom007 1,465]

This is just inconceivably false. It's ridiculously false. Doesn't have the fire? He and Zetterberg were our best overall skaters this past playoffs.

Filpulla isn't going to be a Datsyuk or Zetterberg, but he's the player, apart Zetterberg, Datsyuk and maybe ericcson with the most potential. Filppula will have a 70 point season before his contract is up, probably 2.

Filppula hands are better than Hudlers.

Again, if you were even close to right, he never would've signed his name to a 5-year $3 million/per deal at his age. He knows his dollar-making potential better than anyone except maybe his agent, and his agent let him sign the deal. If they believed for a second he was a top tier player, they wouldn't have signed for 5 years. 2-3 tops especially at that money. They knew they were getting a great deal and they ran with it.

And I wouldn't really hold up our teams performance this year to show off Flips fire. Considering we were beat up, injured, often-uninspired and fairly tired, I would hope a seemingly healthy 24-year old with 3 years of solid NHL experience would outplay old fart checkers and guys that spent the season in Grand Rapids. After all, he's also making more money than most of our guys. Hell, he made more than Zetterberg last year.

A snakebit Hossa scored twice as many goals though 1 less point than Flip in his best stretch of hockey. Hossa on his game in the playoffs could put up almost as many points as Flip puts up in the entire regular season.

Flip makes $3 million for four more years and after that, we'll see...

Hossa might stay for $4 million for life. Proven superstar. Easily worth $7-8 million on the open market.

Again, to every Hossa skeptic:

You're absolutely a fool if you'd rather have Flip over Hossa if Hossa's willing to play for life for the Wings for $4 million cap hit per year.

If you're really bent out of shape about possibly losing Flip to get Hossa at that kind of money, you're seriously nuts. Certifiably insane.

Update: I just went outside and heard the roar of every GM in the world is laughing at you right now.

[egroen 384]

Franzen and Hudler are natural centers.

But don't get me wrong, I would really be happy if Flip was still on the team - if he goes he will make another team very happy.

[gcom007 1,465]

Okay, so trade Flip, sign Hossa. Who centers the second line that won't crack under the pressure if his wingers are shut down?

Or are we all willing to basically call it quits on trying for the cup next year without a second line center just to sign hossa?

Flip is integral, and I'm sure there will be no arguing this point despite all the logic and evidence from his play this season so I'll just say I can't wait for you all to be proven wrong after Flip has stellar years in his future as a red wing. Take a look at the poll, you're outnumbered. But we're the ones that are wrong right? Filppula is a s***ty finisher, never mind the goals scored this year that scream finishing ability.

If worse comes to worse, yes. I'd rather be great long run than a little more well-rounded for one year. And we could lose Flip, Hossa, Hudler and Samuellson and we've still got an elite team that will challenge for the Cup. I don't even think Flip's a bad player at all, but it's mind-blowing how emotionally invested some of you must be in him to make such ridiculous suggestions.

Hell, even if we don't sign Hossa, I still think Flip's the first to go if we have any sort of an issue that needs to be addressed at the deadline. Again, dealing him makes more sense than dealing anyone else when you consider his contributions, his cap hit and the return on a trade.

[Aussie_Wing 354]

If worse comes to worse, yes. I'd rather be great long run than a little more well-rounded for one year. And we could lose Flip, Hossa, Hudler and Samuellson and we've still got an elite team that will challenge for the Cup. I don't even think Flip's a bad player at all, but it's mind-blowing how emotionally invested some of you must be in him to make such ridiculous suggestions.

Hell, even if we don't sign Hossa, I still think Flip's the first to go if we have any sort of an issue that needs to be addressed at the deadline. Again, dealing him makes more sense than dealing anyone else when you consider his contributions, his cap hit and the return on a trade.

No, it's mind-blowing how ridiculous the calls are to trade Flip every single year despite the fact he is young, improving, and was one of our best players in the playoffs.

To Flip haters: Sorry guys but he's here to stay.

[Aussie_Wing 354]

If worse comes to worse, yes. I'd rather be great long run than a little more well-rounded for one year. And we could lose Flip, Hossa, Hudler and Samuellson and we've still got an elite team that will challenge for the Cup. I don't even think Flip's a bad player at all, but it's mind-blowing how emotionally invested some of you must be in him to make such ridiculous suggestions.

Hell, even if we don't sign Hossa, I still think Flip's the first to go if we have any sort of an issue that needs to be addressed at the deadline. Again, dealing him makes more sense than dealing anyone else when you consider his contributions, his cap hit and the return on a trade.

See I know what your problem is. You have absolutely no sense whatsoever as to the nature of how highly the Wings organisation rates Flip as a player. None.

[gcom007 1,465]

See I know what your problem is. You have absolutely no sense whatsoever as to the nature of how highly the Wings organisation rates Flip as a player. None.

If we sign Hossa, get back to me on that.

That goes for the trade deadline too should we have significant issues.

Again, I'm not saying he's not a solid player and that they don't highly value him, but in a cap system on this team, he'll be the guy to get moved if the Wings are going to do anything significant at any point in the next couple of years. There's nobody else that can clear enough space that's worth anything on the market. You can't keep everyone.

Again, if a Hossa deal is announced, get back to me at the end of the summer.

[Aussie_Wing 354]

If we sign Hossa, get back to me on that.

That goes for the trade deadline too should we have significant issues.

Again, I'm not saying he's not a solid player and that they don't highly value him, but in a cap system on this team, he'll be the guy to get moved if the Wings are going to do anything significant at any point in the next couple of years. There's nobody else that can clear enough space that's worth anything on the market. You can't keep everyone.

Again, if a Hossa deal is announced, get back to me at the end of the summer.

And you'll get back to me when we don't trade Flip? Thanks.