Thunderpriest 8 Report post Posted July 4, 2009 I don't understand why everyone seems to be so down on Homer recently. He didn't light it up in the playoffs this year, but nobody on the team did. Homer actually had a good season statistically.....and he was hampered by injuries. His stats this year line up with most of his other seasons on a point per game basis: 08-09, 37pts in 53gms = .69ppg 07-08, 40pts in 59gms = .67ppg 06-07, 52pts in 77gms = .67ppg 05-06, 59pts in 81gms = .72ppg I really think that if Babcock reunites the Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Holmstrom line....which was the best line in all of hockey in 07-08.....that they will be dominant again. I understand that Babs likes to break up Dats & Z to try to balance the lines, but I really think it's a mistake. Dats & Z are too dynamic together to ever split up. Losing Hossa doesn't help the 2nd line, but I think we've got enough talent to make up for it. I've seen a lot of potential lineups where Homer is playing the third & fourth lines. I think people are seriously underestimating him. So, if we assume that Hudler is signed, I'd think we would best be served with the following forward lineup: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Holmstrom Cleary, Filppula, Franzen Leino, Hudler, Helm Maltby, Draper, Abdelkader I also like the idea of switching out Hudler and Cleary now & then to get Hudler some more ice time up front. Homer HAS to play up front with Hank & Dats. Their puck control makes up for his lack of foot speed and he opens up a lot of space for them by planting in front of the net and retrieving pucks in the corners. Homer is less effective with the grinders, as they play a speed game, but very valuable on the top line. Discuss. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LIDDYGIBBY5 1 Report post Posted July 4, 2009 People get down on him because that is what people do around here. Unless every player puts up superstar numbers, they are terrible. Do you remember when 65% of the posts on Datsyuk were about how bad he was? Holmstrom has never been a complete player. His defense is questionable, you add his injuries from the style of game he plays and people get down on him even more. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broken 16 381 Report post Posted July 4, 2009 Actually, people get down on him because he was next to useless in the playoffs this year. Injury, tired, hangover... whatever. He was awful on both ends for most of the playoffs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thunderpriest 8 Report post Posted July 4, 2009 People get down on him because that is what people do around here. Unless every player puts up superstar numbers, they are terrible. Do you remember when 65% of the posts on Datsyuk were about how bad he was? Holmstrom has never been a complete player. His defense is questionable, you add his injuries from the style of game he plays and people get down on him even more. Agreed.....people on here can be a bit nit-picky. Everyone has their pet peeves, I suppose. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redwingfan19 293 Report post Posted July 4, 2009 it's not that he can't produce, he just cant keep up with z and pavs. He has never been very good skater but he has really lost a step. all those years of abuse are starting to show. Plus he is getting up there in age and injuries are becoming and issue. Keep him on the 4th line where he will be well rested for powerplays, and by doing this babs can keep him nice and fresh for the playoffs when we need a guy like homer the most. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thunderpriest 8 Report post Posted July 4, 2009 Actually, people get down on him because he was next to useless in the playoffs this year. Injury, tired, hangover... whatever. He was awful on both ends for most of the playoffs. There was a lot of awful play in the playoffs last year, and not just by Homer. Homer was misused by Babcock. He's not a checking line, defensive forward - and that's where he was played on most nights. Hossa was next to useless in the playoffs. Pavs wasn't a scoring machine. Z was overworked. Hudler should've gotten more ice time. Stuart & Kronwall were sub-par. The PK was atrocious. etc. etc. etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
uk_redwing 495 Report post Posted July 4, 2009 08-09, 37pts in 53gms = .69ppg 07-08, 40pts in 59gms = .67ppg 06-07, 52pts in 77gms = .67ppg 05-06, 59pts in 81gms = .72ppg How about we just look at GOALS? 08-09, 14 goals in 53gms = .26gpg 07-08, 20 goals in 59gms = .33gpg 06-07, 30 goals in 77gms = .38gpg 05-06, 29 goals in 81gms = .35gpg And how about we look at points the PLAYOFFS? 08-09, 7 points in 23 games = 0.30ppg 07-08, 12 points in 21 games = .57ppg 06-07, 8 points in 15 games = .53ppg 05-06, 3 points in 6 games = .50ppg Discuss Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thunderpriest 8 Report post Posted July 4, 2009 it's not that he can't produce, he just cant keep up with z and pavs. He has never been very good skater but he has really lost a step. all those years of abuse are starting to show. Plus he is getting up there in age and injuries are becoming and issue. Keep him on the 4th line where he will be well rested for powerplays, and by doing this babs can keep him nice and fresh for the playoffs when we need a guy like homer the most. He hasn't gotten any slower since 07-08, and he was able to keep up with Dats & Z and make it to the front of net & scrum for pucks. Putting him on the 4th line makes him a liability, because they don't have the puck control to allow Homer to get to the net. You either play him on the top line, or you might as well trade him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thunderpriest 8 Report post Posted July 4, 2009 How about we just look at GOALS? 08-09, 14 goals in 53gms = .26gpg 07-08, 20 goals in 59gms = .33gpg 06-07, 30 goals in 77gms = .38gpg 05-06, 29 goals in 81gms = .35gpg And how about we look at points the PLAYOFFS? 08-09, 7 points in 23 games = 0.30ppg 07-08, 12 points in 21 games = .57ppg 06-07, 8 points in 15 games = .53ppg 05-06, 3 points in 6 games = .50ppg Discuss Again....I place a lot of the blame on Babcock for misusing Homer. Yeah, his goals were down. He wasn't playing with Dats & Hank to tip in shots very often. He didn't see as much top line minutes this year in the playoffs, either. And yeah, injuries suck, but they happen. How are Datsyuk's scoring totals in the playoffs? 1 goal? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snazzy 0 Report post Posted July 4, 2009 I might get ripped apart for this, but I don't think Hoss and Holmstrom was right to have together. Despite Hossa getting 40 goals last year, I never felt the Hossa-Datsyuk-Holmstrom line meshed as well as it should have (on paper). I think Homer will be much better off with Dats and Zetterberg together. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xBrave_Heartx 0 Report post Posted July 4, 2009 He's lazy and he sucks. TM Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stormboy 47 Report post Posted July 5, 2009 this isn't going off stats or anything, but he just seems tired to me. i feel like a couple of years ago, after the endless scrums and cross-checks in front of the net, homer always the "********-mixed-with-i'm-having-a-blast" look on his face. this last year, especially in the playoffs, he just seems to have a "for f***'s sake, when is this going to end" look on his face. maybe that's just me, and this is based on nothing other than my observations and interpretations of his demeanor. to me, the tough thing is that i agree with those who say he's wasted on the fourth line: he's not a grinder, he's not quick, he's bad at defense, and if he's playing with guys who can't set up or shoot the puck well, his front-of-net skills are completely useless. that being said, i also agree with those who have said that he seems to have lost a step on dats and z. so...i honestly just don't know what to do with him. hopefully with some rest he'll return to form this coming season and DHZ can tear it up again, and then everyone's problem will be solved. then we can start bitching about filppula, and being disappointed with leino. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thunderpriest 8 Report post Posted July 5, 2009 this isn't going off stats or anything, but he just seems tired to me. I think that they all looked tired at the end...... I also believe that the injuries really took a toll on them this year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lomekian 201 Report post Posted July 5, 2009 I might get ripped apart for this, but I don't think Hoss and Holmstrom was right to have together. Despite Hossa getting 40 goals last year, I never felt the Hossa-Datsyuk-Holmstrom line meshed as well as it should have (on paper). I think Homer will be much better off with Dats and Zetterberg together. I love hossa as a player, but you are of course right. Hossa is a dynamic offensive player who relies on bursts of speed, strength and individual skill. The greater puck retention of Z & D together would give homer a greater opportunity to get involved in the play. Having said that, I do think injuries have started to get to him and inevitably he's not quite the ox he was. However, he's still worth another year on the top line with those guys as he could bounce back, and they have proven chemistry. I also think it would be foolish to dump homer until Lids goes, as they have such a great understanding on the PP (sadly not evidenced in this years playoffs, but considering 4 of our top PP either missed games or struggled with injuries, its no great shock) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broken 16 381 Report post Posted July 5, 2009 There was a lot of awful play in the playoffs last year, and not just by Homer. Homer was misused by Babcock. He's not a checking line, defensive forward - and that's where he was played on most nights. Hossa was next to useless in the playoffs. Pavs wasn't a scoring machine. Z was overworked. Hudler should've gotten more ice time. Stuart & Kronwall were sub-par. The PK was atrocious. etc. etc. etc. What does any of that other stuff have to do with the topic at hand? You asked why everyone was down on Homer and the reason is he was absolutely awful in the playoffs. Looked out of place even on his own line. That's why people are down on him. He didn't produce and appeared to have major problems just keeping up with play. He was consistently the last one into the offensive zone and the last one out to back check. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mickeyisms Rule! 0 Report post Posted July 5, 2009 Homer was injured for the last part of the season and into the playoffs. He had to take shots to freeze his knee for the playoff stretch. While I agree that it looked like he lost a step, don't forget that last offseason he had hernia surgery, and apparently he didn't heal completely, because i flared back up again. He also had back troubles. He is working this summer to rehab and strengthen those parts of his body. This may be his last season in the NHL. It remains to be seen, but I think he still has plenty to give- though he may need to sit out a regular season game now and then to keep from exacerbating a tweaked part every now and then. Freep Article It may just be that this year turns out to be the Wings equivalent to a rebuilding year. Wait n see. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thunderpriest 8 Report post Posted July 5, 2009 What does any of that other stuff have to do with the topic at hand? You asked why everyone was down on Homer and the reason is he was absolutely awful in the playoffs. Looked out of place even on his own line. That's why people are down on him. He didn't produce and appeared to have major problems just keeping up with play. He was consistently the last one into the offensive zone and the last one out to back check. The point is that a LOT of people were awful in the playoffs, but Homer seems to be more frequently tossed under the bus. (And it's my topic to begin with. ) People on here would have him playing on the fourth line next year, and I think he's just been way under appreciated. Did he play well? No. Was he injured? Undoubtedly. I think he'll be in much better form this next season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broken 16 381 Report post Posted July 5, 2009 The point is that a LOT of people were awful in the playoffs, but Homer seems to be more frequently tossed under the bus. (And it's my topic to begin with. ) People on here would have him playing on the fourth line next year, and I think he's just been way under appreciated. Did he play well? No. Was he injured? Undoubtedly. I think he'll be in much better form this next season. I also expect Homer to come back strong this year. The reason I think he catches the most grief is because he's essentially a one trick pony. Other guys can be struggling in certain areas and still be ok because they contribute in others. If Homer can't get to the net, he has no game really. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wingseroo 0 Report post Posted July 5, 2009 I also expect Homer to come back strong this year. The reason I think he catches the most grief is because he's essentially a one trick pony. Other guys can be struggling in certain areas and still be ok because they contribute in others. If Homer can't get to the net, he has no game really. Exactly... And he is 36 and seems to be running out of steam... I hated Homer from 97'-01' because he was the only player on those Wings squads that always was a minus performer, next closest guy would be +2 Homer would be -9... Then Homer came into his own from 02'-08', reduced his defensive lapses and started contributing a little more then his goalie screens... Now I think his skills are starting to erode and he is inching back to being the same kind of detriment he was early in his career... Still 4 rings with Homer, I grew to like him... Now Detroit has a bigger, faster, more skilled, and better defensive minded Homer in Franzen... People wanting him full time on the 4th and folks wanting him full time on the 1st line are not being realistic... Homer is not going to play 18 min a night and has never been that kind of a guy... I expect he will be the breather forward for the top 3 lines, get a few minutes for each line each night and some PP time... Get 10-12 min a night... That is how they played him before the lockout and it seems to be how they used him this past year... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcom007 1,465 Report post Posted July 5, 2009 The thing about Holmstrom that concerns me is that he tends to start strong after a summer of rest and by the end of the regular season, he's pretty beat up. It just seems like he's looked more and more tired and ineffective the last couple years, especially this last one. Given the type of game he plays, he takes a lot more abuse than most guys on the team (hell, in the league...) that's bound to wear a guy down faster during the season and also is likely to shorten the overall career as well. I just don't know how much gas Holmstrom has left in his tank...it seems pretty low to me. I'm not hating on the guy, I'm simply noting that there's a lot more wear and tear involved in Holmstrom's game and at some point you've got to wonder when it's become too much. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dimaline312000 51 Report post Posted July 6, 2009 Holmsy is a great player. He is not a complete player by any means but for what he is used for he is very good. I'd like to see any NHLers go to the Net the way he does and be as effictive as he is. He is getting up there age wise but he is still a competitive player. There is no way I'd ever even think about trading him or putting him down more than one line. He has to be on the top line because that is the player that he is. Homer has done just fine his whole career with the Wings, I'm glad he's on this team and he will be a Red Wing for as long as he plays. Homer didn't put up that great of numbers this playoffs "as someone on here has already said" but none of the players on the Wings did anything that terrific in the playoffs. Let's not forget that when you say playoffs you are talking about all 4 rounds. I get the sense that people are so critical of all of our players because they have boiled it down to the Finals Series. Everyone seems to forget what it took to get to the las series. There is no use in pointing fingers at anyone; its not going to do any good. Holmsy is great and we have a great team and as much as I need to practice what I preach we need to move on and start thinking about next season. It's coming up and it will be here quicker than we all think. It's time to move on and get excited for the future of our team the Future of the Detroit Red Wings!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites