Hudler files for arbitration

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Do you tink he'll get more than $2.5?

No idea.

[deetroit dario 27]

Yeah, yeah, yeah -- I get you -- two-way play trumps all.

Kopecky is a better two-way player than Ovechkin, blah blah blah....

Any team that employs a one-way player sucks -- never mind that Detroit has ALWAYS employed numerous one-way players....

numerous might be a stretch, in the span of a given season. over a decade, maybe numerous would be the word. but not in the cap era, and surely not for that kind of bread!

look, you've got a vladdie quote in your sig too, so i'm not trying to give you any crap or anything...i'm too new here to go sticking my neck out hatin'...but really, in this of all years, the idea of laying that kind of cash on a one way guy is simply untenable! if bread is the barrier to the two way guy (diminutive though he may be), it just strikes me that laying nearly the same kind of bread on a one way player (gargantuan though he may be, whoever this mythic addition is) is, well...

lazy and sucks? not quite the words i'd choose this time...i'd go with "inexpeditious and, frankly...retarded".

okay, not "retarded", but you follow my general logic?

look, i'm not pretending i ate scotty bowman's brain and gained his knowledge...been a fan longer than i've really understood the off ice aspects, and i admit that, so i'm good people. but honestly, in a year where our biggest signing news has been pretty ahl-centric (unless you count the myriad "cap-stricken wings look lazy and sucky" pontifications), it simply stands to reason that you don't spend the money on someone who, while potentially the fullest of the full one way players, is still just half a player...

also...why hasn't anyone given voice to our own cap concerns for next year? sure, we get cap relief but as far as long term deals being made today...there's still an incredibly shrinking cap in the works, to the tune of a 2 and 6 zeros...frak! that's gotta get its own thread....

[egroen 384]

numerous might be a stretch, in the span of a given season. over a decade, maybe numerous would be the word. but not in the cap era, and surely not for that kind of bread!

look, you've got a vladdie quote in your sig too, so i'm not trying to give you any crap or anything...i'm too new here to go sticking my neck out hatin'...but really, in this of all years, the idea of laying that kind of cash on a one way guy is simply untenable! if bread is the barrier to the two way guy (diminutive though he may be), it just strikes me that laying nearly the same kind of bread on a one way player (gargantuan though he may be, whoever this mythic addition is) is, well...

lazy and sucks? not quite the words i'd choose this time...i'd go with "inexpeditious and, frankly...retarded".

okay, not "retarded", but you follow my general logic?

look, i'm not pretending i ate scotty bowman's brain and gained his knowledge...been a fan longer than i've really understood the off ice aspects, and i admit that, so i'm good people. but honestly, in a year where our biggest signing news has been pretty ahl-centric (unless you count the myriad "cap-stricken wings look lazy and sucky" pontifications), it simply stands to reason that you don't spend the money on someone who, while potentially the fullest of the full one way players, is still just half a player...

also...why hasn't anyone given voice to our own cap concerns for next year? sure, we get cap relief but as far as long term deals being made today...there's still an incredibly shrinking cap in the works, to the tune of a 2 and 6 zeros...frak! that's gotta get its own thread....

Next year Lidstrom's $7.45m salary is up as well as Holmstrom's $2.25m -- even with a dip in the cap, the Wings should be fine after next year. Holmstrom and Maltby will probably retire and Lidstrom will hopefully start signing lower one-year deals.

I think Hudler would be great on the 2nd line setting up Franzen - better than Filppula.

But Hudler, by himself, is also able to create a scoring line out of nothing --- he did so in 2008 in the playoffs with McCarty and Helm.

He makes the players on his line better - that is when a one-way player is especially worth it. Same thing with Holmstrom, who deserves countless "assists" for his play in front of the goalie: a one-way player who creates opportunities for his entire line.

Hudler is also not nearly as bad defensively as he used to be and his skating has made huge strides (not nearly as bad as Holmstrom, for instance).

Despite consistently playing on worse even-strength lines than Filppula, he has a career +/- of +33 -- and Filppula is only +34.

Hudler is not the "liability" some paint him out to be.

Edited July 7, 2009 by egroen

[HudlerFanatic 4]

Dont take offense to this. Ive read some of your posts on here, and you seem like a good guy.

However, it boggles my mind that for a fan base as blessed with great hockey and such a rich tradition as ours has, that so many people cant see how obvious it is that Filppula is heads and shoulders better than Hudler.

I realize that people can simply watch hockey and be entertained by players skating around the rink at a fast pace scoring goals. My girlfriend likes watching but really doesnt have a clue how the game is played.

If you are knowledgeable enough and watch how plays are developed, how the team breaks out of their zone, how players play their position, how players battle along the boards, win races to the puck, how certain players make heady plays that dont show up on the score sheet.. etc, this really isnt even a debate.

If you arent able to watch the little things that go on in a game. To me, proof is in the pudding when Hudler cant be counted upon to play more than 12 minutes a game, and that some of those minutes are logged while we have a 5 on 4 advantage. At times, he is a liability.

While I'd like to have Hudler back, it is pure idiocy to say he should be kept over Filppula. Filppula still hasnt even peaked offensively.

2008-09 Regular Season:

-Had a career high 57 points (previous high was 42 points)......assume for 09/10..... 67 points

-Scored a career high 23 goals (previous high - 15)...................assume fo.09/10...... 30 goals

I mean at 25...we should assume that he only gets better, right????

Regarding ice time and not being able to play more than 12 minutes....(just b/c he doesn't play more than 12 doesn't mean he can't...that is Bab's call.......

2009 PLAYOFF HIGHS

Ice Time - 21:28, Game 2 vs ANA

2008-09 HIGHS

Ice Time - 21:49, 3/3 at STL

09 Playoffs Ice Time F/O

Jun 12 '09 PIT @ DET 12:02 1A

Jun 09 '09 DET @ PIT 8:50

Jun 06 '09 PIT @ DET 11:12 1A

Jun 04 '09 DET @ PIT 11:21

Jun 02 '09 DET @ PIT 12:25

May 31 '09 PIT @ DET 13:01 1A

May 30 '09 PIT @ DET 11:40

May 27 '09 CHI @ DET 18:33

May 24 '09 DET @ CHI 16:36

May 22 '09 DET @ CHI 15:34

May 19 '09 CHI @ DET 13:40 1A

May 17 '09 CHI @ DET 13:30

May 14 '09 ANA @ DET 13:07 1G (PP) 1A

May 12 '09 DET @ ANA 9:43 1A

May 10 '09 ANA @ DET * 8:47 1G (game winning goal)

May 07 '09 DET @ ANA 10:32

May 05 '09 DET @ ANA 15:41 1A

May 03 '09 ANA @ DET 21:28 (played his longest in game 2 against ANA after taking hit by Brown in Game 1)

May 01 '09 ANA @ DET 13:16

Apr 23 '09 DET @ CBJ 14:21 1A

Apr 21 '09 DET @ CBJ 11:56

Apr 18 '09 CBJ @ DET 18:11 1G (PP) 1A

Apr 16 '09 CBJ @ DET 14:17 1G 1A

09 Playoffs 15 out of 23 games are over 12 min

(4 of his playoff points produced in 12 min or under)

And as for the 08/09 Season....67 of 82 games were over 12 min of ice time

So, that is not an argument (IMO)

[wingsownnhl43 14]

Yeah, yeah, yeah -- I get you -- two-way play trumps all.

Kopecky is a better two-way player than Ovechkin, blah blah blah....

Any team that employs a one-way player sucks -- never mind that Detroit has ALWAYS employed numerous one-way players....

Ok. Im sorry that my post about every point flying over your head, flew over your head, and that each of you three sentences in this post either took what I said out of context or is a fallacy.

So Ill recap for you/break things down easier so you can understand...

1. My bottom line point has been that Valterri Filppula is a better all around player than Jiri Hudler, thus the reason why it would be idiotic to trade Filppula to re-sign Hudler, who is asking for MORE money than Filppula.

2. No where through out this thread has Hudlers offensive skill been called into question. The majority of Wings fans would agree that he is very gifted offensively. The knock on Hudler is that he is below average defensively and at times a liability. Which is one reason why Filppula averaged 5-6 minutes more per game in the playoffs, where for the most part, penalties are called at lesser rate than in the regular season.

3. My main criticism of you is that you look to much into stats, and that you dont actually watch games and identify what knowledgeable hockey minds are able to identify, the little things that dont show up on a score sheet, which is why I wrote what I wrote in my original post to you. You must not have read it. Here it is again.

Dont take offense to this. Ive read some of your posts on here, and you seem like a good guy.

However, it boggles my mind that for a fan base as blessed with great hockey and such a rich tradition as ours has, that so many people cant see how obvious it is that Filppula is heads and shoulders better than Hudler.

I realize that people can simply watch hockey and be entertained by players skating around the rink at a fast pace scoring goals. My girlfriend likes watching but really doesnt have a clue how the game is played.

If you are knowledgeable enough and watch how plays are developed, how the team breaks out of their zone, how players play their position, how players battle along the boards, win races to the puck, how certain players make heady plays that dont show up on the score sheet.. etc, this really isnt even a debate.

If you arent able to watch the little things that go on in a game. To me, proof is in the pudding when Hudler cant be counted upon to play more than 12 minutes a game, and that some of those minutes are logged while we have a 5 on 4 advantage. At times, he is a liability.

While I'd like to have Hudler back, it is pure idiocy to say he should be kept over Filppula. Filppula still hasnt even peaked offensively.

4. After going back and forth about alllllll of this, you come back at me with .........drum roll........ STATS.... about Hudler's offensive skill which no one at any point in this thread has argued!!!!!!

Ok sorry about the length of this post. I just need to clarify why everything in this thread has went over your head.

[egroen 384]

The Wings have already lost two members of the PP -- i'm not sure I want to lose more.

Datsyuk Zetterberg Holmstrom

Lidstrom Rafalski

Franzen XXXX XXXX

Kronwall XXXX

Ericsson or Stuart will take the point, and then you have Cleary, Leino and Filppula as options up front -- but that frankly sucks, and lacks a true puck distributor outside of Kronwall.

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

I see a new commercial on the horizon...

Hudler: "I'm thinking Arbi!"

[wingsownnhl43 14]

Regarding ice time and not being able to play more than 12 minutes....(just b/c he doesn't play more than 12 doesn't mean he can't...that is Bab's call.......

2009 PLAYOFF HIGHS

Ice Time - 21:28, Game 2 vs ANA

09 Playoffs Ice Time F/O

Jun 12 '09 PIT @ DET 12:02 1A

Jun 09 '09 DET @ PIT 8:50

Jun 06 '09 PIT @ DET 11:12 1A

Jun 04 '09 DET @ PIT 11:21

Jun 02 '09 DET @ PIT 12:25

May 31 '09 PIT @ DET 13:01 1A

May 30 '09 PIT @ DET 11:40

Here's what I look at most. The series where there were the least amount of penalties, and the one that was most crucial. Agreed, it is Babs call. But just why is it that he doesnt choose to play him as much as a guy like, i don know, Filppula? Is it perhaps because he isnt as good? That's the main thing I was getting at. The 12 minute comment was obviously an exaggeration.

Also, the 21 minute game during the playoffs.. Did you check to see if that was a triple over time game? Hahahahah. Of course he's gonna play more than he usually does.

Edited July 7, 2009 by wingsownnhl43

[deetroit dario 27]

Next year Lidstrom's $7.45m salary is up as well as Holmstrom's $2.25m -- even with a dip in the cap, the Wings should be fine after next year. Holmstrom and Maltby will probably retire and Lidstrom will hopefully start signing lower one-year deals.

I think Hudler would be great on the 2nd line setting up Franzen - better than Filppula.

But Hudler, by himself, is also able to create a scoring line out of nothing --- he did so in 2008 in the playoffs with McCarty and Helm.

He makes the players on his line better - that is when a one-way player is especially worth it. Same thing with Holmstrom, who deserves countless "assists" for his play in front of the goalie: a one-way player who creates opportunities for his entire line.

Hudler is also not nearly as bad defensively as he used to be and his skating has made huge strides (not nearly as bad as Holmstrom, for instance).

Despite consistently playing on worse even-strength lines than Filppula, he has a career +/- of +33 -- and Filppula is only +34.

Hudler is not the "liability" some paint him out to be.

first, yes...next year we have "cap to burn", but that doesn't mean that its enough cap to cover what we're lacking and will need...and if you've noticed, the trouble this year is not enough money to cover "what we need" (granted, this is set to a ridiculous, red wing high standard. cause we're the effin' wings!). now, if i was a forward thinking guy, guy who forever frets about tomorrow without taking time to cherish today (kenny?), probably i'd be planning every deal based on the realities of two years from now, much less next or this. now, i'm not gonna crunch numbers, cause i'm not the effin' GM...but i still see concerns about next year being very much a consideration in this year's affairs. i'll let all the junior GM's figure out if there's some fire to my smoke, but i'm still smokin' it until someone says its catnip...

now, as to hud v fil....

if you're gonna be so drastic, dump rafalski, replace him with TWO two way players AND a one way player.

also, you're slanting your line observations. it seems like you're characterizing fil as "lazy and sucky" specifically to fit your argument. now, i don't disagree about hud being a possible fit on franzen's line...i actually find that pretty keen. but that doesn't mean that fil is suddenly an unworthy player, nor someone to consider trading. hell, i frankly would sooner consider actually making good on the rafalski trade over fil! cause thats what this year is about...the gee-dee money. suck though it may...its about the effin' money...

again...i'm not attacking you, and i'm not pretending to be the wisest of hockey strategists. i simply hold my views, based upon my own capacity for logic...and i leave them bare to interpretation.

[Winged_Wheeler 3]

The Wings have already lost two members of the PP -- i'm not sure I want to lose more.

Datsyuk Zetterberg Holmstrom

Lidstrom Rafalski

Franzen XXXX XXXX

Kronwall XXXX

Ericsson or Stuart will take the point, and then you have Cleary, Leino and Filppula as options up front -- but that frankly sucks, and lacks a true puck distributor outside of Kronwall.

Your true puck distributor is Val Filppula. He's one of the best passers on the team and doesn't get credit for it. Filppula can be the set up guy while Mule can score.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Your true puck distributor is Val Filppula. He's one of the best passers on the team and doesn't get credit for it. Filppula can be the set up guy while Mule can score.

He's alright, but he's not a better passer than Hudler.

[wingsownnhl43 14]

Your true puck distributor is Val Filppula. He's one of the best passers on the team and doesn't get credit for it. Filppula can be the set up guy while Mule can score.

Bam.

[egroen 384]

Stats are the best way to present info over a message board -- and usually beats the hell out of "Dude! Hudler is WAAAY better than Filppula! Just watch a game!"

I can tell you what I see from Filppula: A strong defensive and skating player who is closer to a prime Draper than he ever will be a prime Zetterberg or Datsyuk. Like Draper, he has hands of stone, and will very rarely place the puck where it needs to be. For this reason he is rarely used on shoot-outs or the power play, and you can pretty much write-off any breakaway he has or pass that comes his way in the offensive zone -- he will miss the net or send it right into the goalie. He is not a playmaker, and most of his assists come from hard work in the corners or bringing the puck up the ice and merely getting it to someone who is more talented offensively than him -- most of his assists seem to be secondary assists, and he will never be a good power play player as he is not a "playmaker" or shooter. He does not have the "un-tapped" potential that was so evident from day one from seeing Datsyuk and Zetterberg, not even close. Filppula has the optential to be a 2nd line forward and PK specialist.

Hudler has that offensive knack Filppula lacks - he can thread a pass better than any forward on the team short of Datsyuk and has an extremely accurate wrister and slapshot. On-ice intelligence is better as well, as Hudler is often in just the right place to be. He has always been a regular on the power play as well as the shootout. He is capable of lifting his line mates and getting them the passes even Filppula could bury. So far, he has been limited largely by ice time and line mates -- and his potential is much higher than Filppula (whom I see at about 50 pts, while Hudler could easily become a point per game player). Goes to the net just as much as Filppula, but actually has the skill to make something happen more often than Filppula. High-end puck handling skills with average skating speed that has improved every year. Hudler has the potential to be a top line player and PP specialist.

[Wingseroo 0]

Its not FLip vs Huds... Its Homer vs Huds...

I will say once again I cant remember anyone who the Wings have spent more time developing then Hudler and now that he is on the brink of his prime you say get rid of him...

It is time for him to be set on a top 2 line for good and played there...

Its harsh to say, but if there is a guy that might be a detriment to the Wings in salary and performance this year it will be Homer...

[egroen 384]

first, yes...next year we have "cap to burn", but that doesn't mean that its enough cap to cover what we're lacking and will need...and if you've noticed, the trouble this year is not enough money to cover "what we need" (granted, this is set to a ridiculous, red wing high standard. cause we're the effin' wings!). now, if i was a forward thinking guy, guy who forever frets about tomorrow without taking time to cherish today (kenny?), probably i'd be planning every deal based on the realities of two years from now, much less next or this. now, i'm not gonna crunch numbers, cause i'm not the effin' GM...but i still see concerns about next year being very much a consideration in this year's affairs. i'll let all the junior GM's figure out if there's some fire to my smoke, but i'm still smokin' it until someone says its catnip...

now, as to hud v fil....

if you're gonna be so drastic, dump rafalski, replace him with TWO two way players AND a one way player.

also, you're slanting your line observations. it seems like you're characterizing fil as "lazy and sucky" specifically to fit your argument. now, i don't disagree about hud being a possible fit on franzen's line...i actually find that pretty keen. but that doesn't mean that fil is suddenly an unworthy player, nor someone to consider trading. hell, i frankly would sooner consider actually making good on the rafalski trade over fil! cause thats what this year is about...the gee-dee money. suck though it may...its about the effin' money...

again...i'm not attacking you, and i'm not pretending to be the wisest of hockey strategists. i simply hold my views, based upon my own capacity for logic...and i leave them bare to interpretation.

Rafalski has a no-trade clause.

The only two players you can move at that salary ($3m +) are Kronwall and Filppula.

I do not think Filppula sucks at all - I quite like him. I just feel with what the Winsg have lost (a lot of offense), retained (a lot of defensive forwards) so far and what they have in the pipeline (a lot of defensive forwards), someone with high-end offensive skills (like Hudler) is more important to the team going forward. There is also the bonus that Filppula will bring in perhaps a low 1st round pick or a 2nd and 4th - while you get absolutely no return from Hudler.

Edited July 7, 2009 by egroen

[egroen 384]

Your true puck distributor is Val Filppula. He's one of the best passers on the team and doesn't get credit for it. Filppula can be the set up guy while Mule can score.

As posted before - Filppula is "alright" - he can get the puck to Franzen or Hossa who will carry it in, deke a few defenders and shelf it. A lot of his primary assists are like this, and he has a ton of secondary assists where he simply gets it to a better playmaker (like Kronwall, Hudler, Lidstrom, Rafalski). He is simply not a playmaker and rarely directly sets someone up.

Edited July 7, 2009 by egroen

[wingsownnhl43 14]

oops

Edited July 7, 2009 by wingsownnhl43

[wingsownnhl43 14]

Its not FLip vs Huds... Its Homer vs Huds...

I will say once again I cant remember anyone who the Wings have spent more time developing then Hudler and now that he is on the brink of his prime you say get rid of him...

It is time for him to be set on a top 2 line for good and played there...

Its harsh to say, but if there is a guy that might be a detriment to the Wings in salary and performance this year it will be Homer...

I would agree with this. I would love to have both Filppula and Hudler, i just dont think Hudlers worth any more than 2.5 mil. I just dont agree with egroen's assessment of Filppula. I cant ever remember Draper averaging over 18 min per game in a playoffs.

Also about the powerplay thing. Filppula is more than capable of playing the power play and probably will now that Hossa is gone. Filppula is very underrated as a distributor. I understood he wasnt on it last year and that is because Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Hossa, Holmstrom, Hudler, Franzen were understandably on the top two units. Any other team, Filppula would be used in powerplay situations.

Holland said it himself, you dont score in this league unless you play the powerplays. Ergroen if you like stats, look at this one.

ppg-ppa-ppp

Pavel Datsyuk 11-25-36

Hank 12-18-30

Hossa 10-13-23

Franzen 11-8-19

Hudler 6-22-28

Flip who didnt play on the powerplay 1-3-4

Even Strength breakdown

Hudler 17-12-29

Filppula 11-25-36

This is with Flip playing just over two minutes per game more than Hudler. I cant wait to see how many points Flip puts up with powerplay time.

[deetroit dario 27]

Rafalski has a no-trade clause.

The only two players you can move at that salary ($3m +) are Kronwall and Filppula.

I do not think Filppula sucks at all - I quite like him. I just feel with what the Winsg have lost (a lot of offense), retained (a lot of defensive forwards) so far and what they have in the pipeline (a lot of defensive forwards), someone with high-end offensive skills (like Hudler) is more important to the team going forward. There is also the bonus that Filppula will bring in perhaps a low 1st round pick or a 2nd and 4th - while you get absolutely no return from Hudler.

yeah, forgot for a moment about the ntc on rafalski.

but we gotta make it through today while still worrying about tomorrow. and the more i let myself digress into this argument (i prefer "discussion"), the further away from the point i'd intended to make seems to be...

the point, ladies and germy-men, is this....we're powerless speculators. we're dissecting every aspect as though we really know what we're talking about, but in the end, we're waxing bulls*** about nothing.

huds will be signed, or he won't. if he is, and its a capbuster, they'll work it out. THEY will, the cats in charge....and until anyone outs themselves on here as being front office, well...you know, frankly, its starting to sound like a circle jerk...

now, don't get me wrong...jerkin' off is fun! and i can see the value in doing it online with buddies, cause its anonymous...but as i said the first time, this argument is lazy and it sucks.

[wingsownnhl43 14]

this argument is lazy and it sucks.

What else do you expect diehard red wing fans to do in the offseason?

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

As posted before - Filppula is "alright" - he can get the puck to Franzen or Hossa who will carry it in, deke a few defenders and shelf it. A lot of his primary assists are like this, and he has a ton of secondary assists where he simply gets it to a better playmaker (like Kronwall, Hudler, Lidstrom, Rafalski). He is simply not a playmaker and rarely directly sets someone up.

To make a stupid, inadequate analogy: Flip is like a QB handing off to his running back, whereas Hudler is like a QB threading the needle to his receiver through double coverage.

This is with Flip playing just over two minutes per game more than Hudler. I cant wait to see how many points Flip puts up with powerplay time.

The balance between Flip's higher ESTOI and Hudler's higher PPTOI was pretty close last season. Each will see an increase in the others specialty this season, and I'm sure Flip will perform adequately on the PP. He could benefit a lot from increased ESTOI if Babcock decides to keep Hank and Pavel together, which he should.

EDIT: Spelling, syntax.

Edited July 7, 2009 by Heroes of Hockeytown

[deetroit dario 27]

What else do you expect diehard red wing fans to do in the offseason?

lol...turn on eachother, one by one...what else?

sincerely, though...how about we slit eachother's collective throats when we have some actual information to go on...

just a thought...i'm a peaceful chap, after all. hell, i'd hold an avs fan's hand...long as it was holding a knife at bettman's throat!

[HudlerFanatic 4]

....Hudler has that offensive knack Filppula lacks - he can thread a pass better than any forward on the team short of Datsyuk and has an extremely accurate wrister and slapshot. On-ice intelligence is better as well, as Hudler is often in just the right place to be. He has always been a regular on the power play as well as the shootout. He is capable of lifting his line mates and getting them the passes even Filppula could bury. So far, he has been limited largely by ice time and line mates -- and his potential is much higher than Filppula (whom I see at about 50 pts, while Hudler could easily become a point per game player). Goes to the net just as much as Filppula, but actually has the skill to make something happen more often than Filppula. High-end puck handling skills with average skating speed that has improved every year. Hudler has the potential to be a top line player and PP specialist.....

I like this part of your post....I like Filppula....I honestly thinjk they would complement each other on the same line...it seems that one has what the other lacks....put a Z or Franzen in there....and it's like smooth sailing. (IMO) that line would have it all I think.

...... I never even thought about the shootout spot..... but who would play with the opposing goalie with his little leg kick when he shoots.....? lol....

I agree though that I don't think any of this will have anything to do with Filppula....he should be taken out of the equation. They HAVE to find a way to keep Huds....if injuries are anything like the playoffs and we've lost Hossa-Sammy-Kopeceky....I mean even though two of them I could really care less about, they did pick up some slack....and yes Leino & Helm......but I don't know if Leion's 1st full time season will be as great as some think...we can all speculate on points and goals and such......but we won't every really know til the numbers are on the boards....right???

As for Hudler waniting more money then Filppula.....wanting more than $2.5 is not exactly wanting more then him.....knowing that the arbitration is making a case for $3-$4 maybe closer to $4 is knowing that the negotiating meets in the middle right....so I'm betting that if there is a $3 offered ( I don't know how) he'd take it....or as TONS of us have been saying, a small raise this year & salary re-negotiating next year when there is more cap space........

Edited July 7, 2009 by HudlerFanatic

[egroen 384]

To make a stupid, inadequate analogy: Flip is like a QB handing off to his running back, whereas Hudler is like a QB threading the needle to his receiver through double coverage.

Heh... that's actually a great analogy.

The balance between Flip's higher ESTOI and Hudler's higher PPTOI was pretty close last season. Each will see an increase in the others specialty this season, and I'm sure Flip will perform adequately on the PP. He could benefit a lot from increased ESTOI if Babcock decides to keep Hank and Pavel together, which he should.

EDIT: Spelling, syntax.

I see Filppula as behind Hudler, Leino and Cleary when it comes to PP time, but he should still see his time on the PP go up regardless.

I really do hope Holland can find a way to keep both for the next season, because after that, it gets much less dicey and we should be able to retain both for many more years to come.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

I see Filppula as behind Hudler, Leino and Cleary when it comes to PP time, but he should still see his time on the PP go up regardless.

I actually didn't think that through, and between Hank, Pavel, Mule, those three, and Homer, PP time might be harder to come by than I was thinking.