Holland's Strategy Now

[Drake_Marcus 890]

I wouldn't call this a crisis, and I disagree that he wouldn't predict this outcome to be a possibility. Heck, I even suggested it as a possibility a couple months ago. Hossa was an anomaly on our team. He shouldn't have been here in a cap world, so you can't look at losing him as a loss (besides we won the Cup without him a year earlier). Instead compare our team to the 2007-2008 Wings.

Leino for Sammy

possibly Abdelkader for Kopecky

Helm for Drake

We have about 1.7M in free space right now, and that will go to about 2.5 after Holland trades a defensman off, and that's all the money the Wings really need to replace a Hudler (if he wants to be tricky about it, he might get a player better than Hudler with that capspace; the possibilities are certainly there). Meech can play as forward and defense, and players like Kindl, Ritola, and the like become our depth should an emergency occur. Remember, all of these players we are bringing up were at one point in the past couple years acknowledged as nhl caliber players, and would be in an nhl lineup if they didn't play for Detroit.

Also: remember the Pens? They were absolutely decimated last year and everyone was questioning whether the would even make the playoffs. They won the Cup. Now its our turn, and again, this isn't a crisis.

More reassurance? Our top 6 is as good as any in the league. They're our goal scorers. Our bottom six are grinders, and if the postseason is any indication of what they're capable of, my only worry next year lies in Draper and Maltby, not Helm, Abdelkader, and Leino. Our defense is as good as any in the league. Especially now that the Big Rig is a full timer.

With two forward spots open and all 8 d-men here we've got 2.58 million dollars in cap space. I'm assuming you've got Abdelkader penciled in the 11th spot? We can definitely find a cheaper veteran, which is what I think Holland will do. Abdelkader's development is better suited by a year in GR playing 20+ mins a night than he is playing in Detroit 8 mins a night. Plus I don't think Holland is comfortable suiting up 5 rookies all year.

Otherwise, yeah your post is spot on.

The Wings need to sign at least one player that's elite or near-elite on the PK, regardless of what his scoring talent is. Defense and the PK were the Wings' undoing this year, not scoring. So I definitely agree with you on Draper and Maltby.

[Snazzy 0]

We've "gained?" We lose solid scorers in Hossa, Huds, Sammy (sometimes) and we've gained? We lose a potential of 80 goals in the regular season and we've gained? We have one guy who, though looking amazing in the playoffs, has never scored a single regular season NHL goal and we've gained? We have another who only played 5 games in the NHL last year and though looked good, only scored 15 goals in GR and we've gained? You're whole argument seems to revolve around the notion that "Younger = Better". I've got news for you kid, younger does NOT always equal better. These GR are potential superstars in the making, but to put all the pressure on them to step up with 20+ goals in their first full NHL season is simply unrealistic. Oh and btw, the only person we've gained is Leino with a nice two year contract. We didn't "gain" Helm as we already had him locked up until 2010. If anything, we maintained Helm and he gained a spot on his own.

You seem to get stupider with every post.

Lol @ stupider. Anyone who uses the word "stupider" is more stupid than the word 'stupider'. Just some food for thought.

[Pskov Wings Fan 71]

I still believe the Wings are an elite level team. I'd use the $2 mil Holland had pegged for Hudler and use it on guys like Moen and Grier.

Based on San Jose games I've seen last year I like Grier (at the right price). For a grinder he has reasonable ability to score. He is also fast skater, which is always nice to have (not as fast as Pavel as we can remember).

And he happen to be from Detroit.

[ShanahanMan 473]

Lol @ stupider. Anyone who uses the word "stupider" is more stupid than the word 'stupider'. Just some food for thought.

Ahem,

stu·pid (stÅÅ'pÄ­d, styÅÅ'-)

adj. stu·pid·er, stu·pid·est

Dictionary.com

Someone needs grammar lessons. Who looks stupider now?

Edited July 9, 2009 by ShanahanMan

[VM1138 1,921]

OP: "Hey guys, how do you feel about the sky? It looks close to me, but I'd like to hear what you think of it"

You: "Lolz 'tha sky uz falling'"

Oh, come on. I wasn't claiming the sky is falling. I very clearly stated that I was asking for opinions about what strategy Holland would be using. Not "Let's sign ____" or "OMG THE TEAM WILL SUCK." In a later post I even noted that I don't think the Wings will be bad next year, but certainly this is a bad stream of events. Not catastrophic but it's definitely a bit of a surprise.

It's a different spin on things that could start an actual discussion instead of the endless Player X is greater than Player Y.

[ben_usmc 253]

I really hate when people say we lost 80 goals, if that's the case does that mean our replacements won't score a single goal?

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Oh, come on. I wasn't claiming the sky is falling. I very clearly stated that I was asking for opinions about what strategy Holland would be using. Not "Let's sign ____" or "OMG THE TEAM WILL SUCK." In a later post I even noted that I don't think the Wings will be bad next year, but certainly this is a bad stream of events. Not catastrophic but it's definitely a bit of a surprise.

It's a different spin on things that could start an actual discussion instead of the endless Player X is greater than Player Y.

Ahhh dude? Read my post again- I was mocking him for saying you were posting a sky is falling thread.

[ShanahanMan 473]

I really hate when people say we lost 80 goals, if that's the case does that mean our replacements won't score a single goal?

But we have. It doesn't mean that some new guys won't make up for SOME of those goals (maybe even 30?), it just means when those players walked, so did 80 goals in production. I pray for a defensive turn around next season, we'll really need it.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Ahem,

Dictionary.com

Someone needs grammar lessons. Who looks stupider now?

Retarded words are in the dictionary. The following list of real Oxford dictionary words comes via cracked.com:

-muggle

-blamestorming

-gaydar

-grrrl

-threequel

-mini-me

-screenager

-cyberslacking

-lookism

-frankenfood

-riffage

-bouncebackability

-prebuttal

-ego-surfing

-meatspace

Seriously man. Also, grammar isn't the act of using proper dictionary words. It's more concerned with the way sentences are constructed.

[ShanahanMan 473]

Retarded words are in the dictionary. The following list of real Oxford dictionary words comes via cracked.com:

-muggle

-blamestorming

-gaydar

-grrrl

-threequel

-mini-me

-screenager

-cyberslacking

-lookism

-frankenfood

-riffage

-bouncebackability

-prebuttal

-ego-surfing

-meatspace

Seriously man. Also, grammar isn't the act of using proper dictionary words. It's more concerned with the way sentences are constructed.

Well, stupider itself isn't a whole different word, so that list really means nothing in relation to this. Stupider is simply a conjugation of the word "stupid". I'm not sure what you're trying to say, as my sentence structure was completely fine.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

ENOUGH GRAMMAR GARBAGE!!!

Hockey Forum. Thank You.

[agziolkow 1]

I hope that this board doesn't get like so many other boards..where people, when taking a second to use a critical eye on things, get called horrible fans and doomsday prophets of a franchise.

If you don't look at things with a critical eye, you can easily get caught with your pants down later..it's a part of maintaining anything that's good and to make things that are good, better.

Now..it's not like we are the ones making roster and on-ice strategy decisions...but I fully support discussions about now that (A) happened..what should (B) be? I can bet you that that is what Holland is doing himself right now.

We all love the Wings. And I know that oftentimes if people are going to be critical about ANYTHING..it's going to be about the things they love and love the most. So long as it is constructive criticism, I am all for it.

Take care and go Wings!

-Z

[Snazzy 0]

Offense won't be as important as our defense (GAA). In 07-08 Wings only allowed 184 goals. There's no reason the Red Wings should give up more than 200 GAA next year. Ericsson is only going to get better and if Lilja is ready to role, we'll be golden. There's no reason why Red Wings can't win the cup next year.

[ShanahanMan 473]

Offense won't be as important as our defense (GAA). In 07-08 Wings only allowed 184 goals. There's no reason the Red Wings should give up more than 200 GAA next year. Ericsson is only going to get better and if Lilja is ready to role, we'll be golden. There's no reason why Red Wings can't win the cup next year.

Okay dude, all insults aside for one damn post, please explain how you believe the Wings will be able to turn around what was an absolute atrocious defense last season into a stellar one next season.

[Snazzy 0]

Okay dude, all insults aside for one damn post, please explain how you believe the Wings will be able to turn around what was an absolute atrocious defense last season into a stellar one next season.

I'll let Kenny Holland himself explain it to you.

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2009/07/re...nd_speak_2.html

Summary: Stanley Cup Hangover, Offensive cushion allowed the Red Wings to play sloppy defense and the Ozzy factor. Holland touches on all points.

[Z and D for the C 712]

They were able to turn a stellar defense two seasons ago into an absolutely atrocious defense last season. It was multiple factors that went into why our defense was bad, none of which I think we'll encounter this year.

[ShanahanMan 473]

I'll let Kenny Holland himself explain it to you.

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2009/07/re...nd_speak_2.html

Summary: Stanley Cup Hangover, Offensive cushion allowed the Red Wings to play sloppy defense and the Ozzy factor. Holland touches on all points.

While I hope thats the case, these are simply theories. The fact is most of the guys we relied on for defense last season, will have to be relied on again the next. They may turn things around, or they may put up an encore performance. We won't know until the season starts. THIS is why I believe its essential to get SOME scorers in there in case our defense fails once again. If we don't, unlike last season, we'll have nothing to back them up.

Edited July 9, 2009 by ShanahanMan

[Snazzy 0]

They were able to turn a stellar defense two seasons ago into an absolutely atrocious defense last season. It was multiple factors that went into why our defense was bad, none of which I think we'll encounter this year.

Yup, I'm surprised this guy thinks tightening up the defense is impossible. Red Wings clearly blew off the regular season as they had nothing to prove. The 2008/09 defense and goaltending was "atrocious" ... However, Red Wings magically turned it around for the playoffs (how conveniently when it truly mattered the most). Like I said, there's no reason why Detroit can't win the cup next year with the arsenal that we have, all they need to do is stay healthy.

[Snazzy 0]

While I hope thats the case, these are simply theories. The fact is most of the guys we relied on for defense last season, will have to be relied on again the next. They may turn things around, or they may put up an encore performance. We won't know until the season starts. THIS is why I believe its essential to get SOME scorers in there in case our defense fails once again. If we don't, unlike last season, we'll have nothing to back them up.

I explained the defense 'theory'. Now explain the salary cap 'theory'. How will Holland 'magically' afford these big scorers with only $1,819,347 cap space?. Holland still has 2 more spots to fill with less than 2 million.

Source: capgeek.com

Edited July 9, 2009 by Snazzy

[RedFX 48]

I'll let Kenny Holland himself explain it to you.

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2009/07/re...nd_speak_2.html

Summary: Stanley Cup Hangover, Offensive cushion allowed the Red Wings to play sloppy defense and the Ozzy factor. Holland touches on all points.

Valid points. But in the end it's easier said than done. It's one thing to say you're going to flip the switch and actually doing it. Let's face it, Lidstrom and Rafalski are getting older, possibly slower and maybe a bit more injury prone. The bottom 4 has been inconsistent at times, and Ozzie hasn't exactly been Mr. Consistency throughout his career.

Last season could very well have been a combination of the factors Kenny mentioned, and can addressed and fixed. But what if it's not? What happens IF the decline continues and that extra offensive cushion isn't there? What if there's an injury, or maybe Ericsson has an off year?

Not saying any of the above will happen. And we could very well go back to being a defensive juggernaut. However, don't assume the problem will be fixed just because Holland says it will be fixed.

[ShanahanMan 473]

I explained the defense 'theory'. Now explain the salary cap 'theory'. How will Holland 'magically' afford these big scorers with only $1,819,347 cap space?. Holland still has 2 more spots to fill with less than 2 million.

Source: capgeek.com

Well, first off, I think thats with Lilja counting against the cap which he probably won't due to injury. Even if he's okay, he's still first up for trade bait. So essentially, we have about 3 million in cap space. I think we can get a solid scorer to sign a multi-year with bonuses for 2-2.25 per year. Then, we sign a grit guy for 500-700 for a one year. It can be done. Worse case scenario, do some free agent try outs at camp and maybe we'll find another gem like we did with Cleary and get them to sign for cheap.

There are ways.

You quote "theory" like the turn around in defense is such a sure thing. It's not. Even if you believe the Wings decided to slack off in defense last season and turn it on in the playoffs, the same thing might happen next season. Except next season, the consequences will be a lot more dire.

Edited July 9, 2009 by ShanahanMan

[Drake_Marcus 890]

I explained the defense 'theory'. Now explain the salary cap 'theory'. How will Holland 'magically' afford these big scorers with only $1,819,347 cap space?. Holland still has 2 more spots to fill with less than 2 million.

Source: capgeek.com

Capgeek is flat out wrong. I've got the numbers in a spreadsheet in front of me. The Wings have 2.6 million to fill two forward spots all WITH 8 d-men on the roster. Drop one d-man and you've increased it to over 3 million.

[Snazzy 0]

Valid points. But in the end it's easier said than done. It's one thing to say you're going to flip the switch and actually doing it. Let's face it, Lidstrom and Rafalski are getting older, possibly slower and maybe a bit more injury prone. The bottom 4 has been inconsistent at times, and Ozzie hasn't exactly been Mr. Consistency throughout his career.

Last season could very well have been a combination of the factors Kenny mentioned, and can addressed and fixed. But what if it's not? What happens IF the decline continues and that extra offensive cushion isn't there? What if there's an injury, or maybe Ericsson has an off year?

Not saying any of the above will happen. And we could very well go back to being a defensive juggernaut. However, don't assume the problem will be fixed just because Holland says it will be fixed.

Ahhhh, the uncertainty of hockey, isn't that what makes it so great? The simple answer to your *what if* questions above is simple; we lose... then we retool again in 2010/11 with Lids, Draper, Maltby and Holmers' contracts all coming to an end and cap space opening up. Not the end of the world, really.

I don't see why the Wings defense can't play like it did in 2007 and like it did in the 2009 playoffs.

Edited July 9, 2009 by Snazzy

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Ahhhh, the uncertainty of hockey, isn't that what makes it so great? The simple answer to your *what if* questions above is simple; we lose... then we retool again in 2010/11 with Lids, Draper, Maltby and Holmers' contracts all coming to an end and cap space opening up. Not the end of the world, really.

I don't see why the Wings defense can't play like it did in 2008 and like it did in the 2009 playoffs.

I'd like them to play better than in the 09 playoffs. The PK was pathetic. That was their bread and butter in the 07-08 championship.

[Jericho613 74]

When Holland signed Hossa to a one year deal, he was called a 'genius' on the boards. Though the entire year while he played here, we all knew Hossa was going to be gone. Then when it happen, when we let Hossa walk, Holland is put under fire on these boards.

I'm sick of hearing that 'we loss' Hossa, because he wasn't ever going to be here after his 1-year rental agreement. We all knew that.

We've GAINED! We are getting younger, we got Helm and Leino (Leino for damn cheap btw) and we are getting tougher and bigger with better defensive forwards! Wings, as a whole, are getting better, not worse!

Says it all right there. I believe this helps the Wings. Wings will win the cup next year. Big Free Agents signings turn into busts 9 times out of 10.