Holland's Strategy Now

[ShanahanMan 473]

Ahhhh, the uncertainty of hockey, isn't that what makes it so great? The simple answer to your *what if* questions above is simple; we lose... then we retool again in 2010/11 with Lids, Draper, Maltby and Holmers' contracts all coming to an end and cap space opening up. Not the end of the world, really.

I don't see why the Wings defense can't play like it did in 2007 and like it did in the 2009 playoffs.

LOL, all I've been saying is "what if they don't?". Why didn't you just respond like that in the first place? Before you acted like the possibility was unreal and now you acknowledge it. I don't get it.

[wingsownnhl43 14]

Looking back at the SCF, I thought our goaltending and top two lines were superior to the Pens. It was the depth of the Pens that actually ended up beating us. Samuelsson and Hudler are below average defensively and in a series where most of the minutes are played five on five, I thought they were exposed. With a core matched by very few consisting of Hank, Z, Mule, Flip, and Cleary, my knee jerk reaction after the finals was to let Samuelsson and Hudler go and bring in depth guys that are tougher to play against. The offensive flash is nice during the regular season, but when the game becomes tighter, and the power plays diminish, Hudler and Samuelsson are less necessary. I think we can replace these guys, fellas. We will be ok.

[Snazzy 0]

Capgeek is flat out wrong. I've got the numbers in a spreadsheet in front of me. The Wings have 2.6 million to fill two forward spots all WITH 8 d-men on the roster. Drop one d-man and you've increased it to over 3 million.

Are you counting bonuses? I guess we can get Mats Sundin then

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Are you counting bonuses? I guess we can get Mats Sundin then

I assume so? I'm using the salary cap numbers they state here on LGW for the "cap hit". If I'm wrong I'd like to formally shift the blame to Matt

[Snazzy 0]

I'd like them to play better than in the 09 playoffs. The PK was pathetic. That was their bread and butter in the 07-08 championship.

Indeed it didn't help that Lilja was out. I do think our PK will be better with Helm and Lilja killing'em. I hate to see Holland trade Lilja because his pay is very reasonable. But then again, Lebda's salary is irreplaceable for what he has to offer. It's a double edge sword, I guess.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Indeed it didn't help that Lilja was out. I do think our PK will be better with Helm and Lilja killing'em. I hate to see Holland trade Lilja because his pay is very reasonable. But then again, Lebda's salary is irreplaceable for what he has to offer. It's a double edge sword, I guess.

We definitely missed Lilja's shot blocking ability, there's no doubt about it.

Ideally I'd like to keep Lilja, have his concussion issue completely disappear and only dump Lebda if we have to.

If Meech can play forward Lebda should be able to too, right? Meech is fast and umm... fast? Lebda has the exact same description.

[eva unit zero 271]

Indeed it didn't help that Lilja was out. I do think our PK will be better with Helm and Lilja killing'em. I hate to see Holland trade Lilja because his pay is very reasonable. But then again, Lebda's salary is irreplaceable for what he has to offer. It's a double edge sword, I guess.

There's no other non-physical, swift skating defenseman who has mediocre puck skills and is a defensive liability that we could sign so cheaply?

Hell, we already have a defenseman who is virtually the same player for $170k less than Lebda. Lebda is not only not irreplaceable...he is EXTREMELY replaceable.

[Snazzy 0]

There's no other non-physical, swift skating defenseman who has mediocre puck skills and is a defensive liability that we could sign so cheaply?

Hell, we already have a defenseman who is virtually the same player for $170k less than Lebda. Lebda is not only not irreplaceable...he is EXTREMELY replaceable.

I like Lebda for only $650k and I think he'd be desired by other teams because of his cheap salary and his experience. He'll never be a top 4 or 5, but I do think he's a solid 6th who is willing to jump into the play. Babcock sometimes used the torpedo system with Lebda out there and it seemed to be effective. I can't hate on the guy.

Why do you always use that font? I'm too lazy to spell check, let alone change the font.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

I like Lebda for only $650k and I think he'd be desired by other teams because of his cheap salary and his experience. He'll never be a top 4 or 5, but I do think he's a solid 6th who is willing to jump into the play. Babcock sometimes used the torpedo system with Lebda out there and it seemed to be effective. I can't hate on the guy.

Why do you always use that font? I'm too lazy to spell check, let alone change the font.

And I think that's what makes him a decent asset in terms of trade value. Lots of teams would like a 625k veteran d-man with blazing speed and a recent cup championship under his belt to play in a bottom pairing. Guys like him are worth a lot more in the cap world than they were in the old NHL. Sure he's not going to play in your top pairing but he's insanely cheap and has the kind of playoff experience teams covet.

[titanium2 867]

And I think that's what makes him a decent asset in terms of trade value. Lots of teams would like a 625k veteran d-man with blazing speed and a recent cup championship under his belt to play in a bottom pairing. Guys like him are worth a lot more in the cap world than they were in the old NHL. Sure he's not going to play in your top pairing but he's insanely cheap and has the kind of playoff experience teams covet.

It's not much but he's also in the last year of his contract according to LGW.

[NGKEIB 32]

And in that one game against Chicago he showed that he was able to handle bigger minutes (he had more even strength minutes than any of our defensemen) and more responsibility. I believe he was involved in two of the Red Wing goals as well. I like Lebda. Has anyone else heard that radio show the morning after the SC win where he's totally hammered?

[Doc Holiday 0]

Okay dude, all insults aside for one damn post, please explain how you believe the Wings will be able to turn around what was an absolute atrocious defense last season into a stellar one next season.

No cup hangover.

Mistakes under the microscope in the offseason.

Things like that. Basically the opposite of what hurt us last year in the offseason.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

And in that one game against Chicago he showed that he was able to handle bigger minutes (he had more even strength minutes than any of our defensemen) and more responsibility. I believe he was involved in two of the Red Wing goals as well. I like Lebda. Has anyone else heard that radio show the morning after the SC win where he's totally hammered?

No! What radio show? I wanna try and google that interview up. Sounds hilarious.

[NGKEIB 32]

Try googling it; if not I have an MP3 file that I can e-mail to you. Isn't Lebda also the guy who fell over with/dropped the Cup?

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Try googling it; if not I have an MP3 file that I can e-mail to you. Isn't Lebda also the guy who fell over with/dropped the Cup?

Yeah, I think so. He was never named in any media reports but I heard more than one person online refer to him specifically as being overboard at the party and likely the perpetrator.

[NGKEIB 32]

That's why he can't be traded. We need someone to play the role of the short drunk whenever there is any celebration; especially now that Hudler won' t be around.

[gcom007 1,465]

Look at last year.

We lost:

Drake

Hasek

We gained:

Hossa

Conklin

Both of those are improvements.

We lost.

How does that work you ask?

The Stanley Cup is not awarded in the offseason.

We would've won by a landslide if we didn't have so many injuries. I have no doubt of this. I'm not bitter, I'm just saying. The idea that adding guys didn't help by saying we didn't win doesn't really hold up because we went a lot farther than we probably should have considering the shape we were in.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

That's why he can't be traded. We need someone to play the role of the short drunk whenever there is any celebration; especially now that Hudler won' t be around.

Haha. Gionta would be great in that role (5'7"!)

[UKWING 8]

Looking back at the SCF, I thought our goaltending and top two lines were superior to the Pens. It was the depth of the Pens that actually ended up beating us. Samuelsson and Hudler are below average defensively and in a series where most of the minutes are played five on five, I thought they were exposed. With a core matched by very few consisting of Hank, Z, Mule, Flip, and Cleary, my knee jerk reaction after the finals was to let Samuelsson and Hudler go and bring in depth guys that are tougher to play against. The offensive flash is nice during the regular season, but when the game becomes tighter, and the power plays diminish, Hudler and Samuelsson are less necessary. I think we can replace these guys, fellas. We will be ok.

good points. the only 3rd and 4th liners who were effective for the wings were our rookies - helm and abdelkader. so having them on the roster full time should not be a bad thing.

[VM1138 1,921]

We would've won by a landslide if we didn't have so many injuries. I have no doubt of this. I'm not bitter, I'm just saying. The idea that adding guys didn't help by saying we didn't win doesn't really hold up because we went a lot farther than we probably should have considering the shape we were in.

Exactly. While playing basically on one leg, and even despite phoning it in a lot, the Wings STILL came within two goals of winning the Stanley Cup. It's kind of scary that a team was so good they could really not put much of an effort forth and still come that close.

Without the injuries, the Wings win the Cup, no doubt in my mind.

I think we're better positioned to win this upcoming season though. Less "cooks in the kitchen" which will open up room for guys like Zetterberg, Cleary, Flip, etc. High energy combo young guns which we lacked for most of the regular season. No cup hangover, without the partying they should be rested up for the regular season. Plus, we are still expecting a gritty, high energy forward witha bit of a scoring touch.

Of course I'm worried, but deep down I think they'll be right back in the Finals. This team is still the team that was basically built for playoffs.

[Doc Holiday 0]

We would've won by a landslide if we didn't have so many injuries. I have no doubt of this. I'm not bitter, I'm just saying. The idea that adding guys didn't help by saying we didn't win doesn't really hold up because we went a lot farther than we probably should have considering the shape we were in.

Was that the excuse for the poor regular season?

Defense was awful the entire year. There wouldn't have been so many injuries if Detroit didn't mail it in half the time in regular season games.

Regardless of the "reasons" you guys put to why Detroit lost, they were still complacent, and didn't have the drive.

Hossa was NOT injured and was invisible. That is an addition who should have made this team better. He was worthless for the price we paid him, and in that regard Detroit downgraded in the post-season.

[egroen 384]

Was that the excuse for the poor regular season?

Stanley Cup hangover and Osgood.

Despite that, Detroit had by far the best follow-up season to a Cup win in over a decade.

Defense was awful the entire year. There wouldn't have been so many injuries if Detroit didn't mail it in half the time in regular season games.

Regardless of the "reasons" you guys put to why Detroit lost, they were still complacent, and didn't have the drive.

Hossa was NOT injured and was invisible. That is an addition who should have made this team better. He was worthless for the price we paid him, and in that regard Detroit downgraded in the post-season.

The Wings really did "flip a switch" in the off-season.

Despite being short Lilja and Rafalski they steam-rolled the Blue Jackets, a team that gave us plenty of trouble during the regular season.

And then the injuries just piled on from there.

Hossa sucked, and failed to utilize his linemates properly... sort of like he did for most of the regular season.

He had the "drive" but tried to do it all himself and ended up simply coughing up the puck more often than not, by taking on the Penguins by himself.

I really was impressed with how far they made it despite such severe injuries to key layers. Still sucks to lose, of course... but an incredibly bruised and battered Wings team came a lot closer to the Cup this year than a healthy, Crosby-led Penguins team did in '08.

[Snazzy 0]

Was that the excuse for the poor regular season?

Defense was awful the entire year. There wouldn't have been so many injuries if Detroit didn't mail it in half the time in regular season games.

Regardless of the "reasons" you guys put to why Detroit lost, they were still complacent, and didn't have the drive.

Hossa was NOT injured and was invisible. That is an addition who should have made this team better. He was worthless for the price we paid him, and in that regard Detroit downgraded in the post-season.

Stanley cup hangover is real, very real. Adding Hossa and his offense had given the Wings room for error, which allowed them to play much more reckless and careless. All factors combined, the defense and Osgood 'hangover' was the sole root of the problem. You don't go from best in the league to the worse in the league in defense because of players are folding and are no longer NHL caliber. Last year's defense and GAA was a fluke. Detroit is still provides the top 3 defense in the league. And the additions of Ericsson, Helm and Abby just makes it better.

Defensive minded:

Ericsson > Lebda

Sammy < Helm

Abby > Hudler

Kopecky < doorknob

Edited July 9, 2009 by Snazzy

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

There wouldn't have been so many injuries if Detroit didn't mail it in half the time in regular season games.

Does not compute.

[Doc Holiday 0]

Stanley cup hangover is real, very real.

That is my point.

Does not compute.

Made sense when I typed it.

Oops.

Edited July 9, 2009 by Doc Holiday