Vaclav Prospal Bought Out

[egroen 384]

Born 1975 and career +/- [minus] -61 total

2008/09 season:

82 Games Played

19 Goals

26 Assists

45 Points

-20

Pass!

LOL!

Now take a look at the teams he has played on.

He is slow and not good good defensively -- sound familiar? This is your Hudler replacement, at potentially half the price. If he could skate like the wind, play good defense AND put up those points he would be Hossa -- and be WELL out of Detroit's price range.

Though he did have more hits last year than any Red Wing forward.

Edited July 28, 2009 by egroen

[zata20 4]

Born 1975 and career +/- [minus] -61 total

2008/09 season:

82 Games Played

19 Goals

26 Assists

45 Points

-20

Pass!

Ya that isn't a very appealing +/-, but you have to take in to account that most of the teams he has been on have been s***. Most of the minus years were when he was with bad tampa,florida, and anaheim teams.

[egroen 384]

Are you sure that's how it's paid out and not just how it is applied to the cap?

He's right - I was wrong.

http://www.nhlscap.com/cap_faq.htm#buyouts

[Z and D for the C 712]

Prospal at the right price would be awesome.

[mmamolo 287]

yeah Im pretty sure it is paid out the same way as it affects the cap.

It is kind of funny to see players like Bertuzzi signing with Calgary last year and Jay McKee signing with Pittsburgh take discoutns becaue of their buyouts. Im surprised that you dont see more guys go after their full contract value after a buyout to further capitalize on their situation.

[Snazzy 0]

LOL!

Now take a look at the teams he has played on.

He is slow and not good good defensively -- sound familiar? This is your Hudler replacement, at potentially half the price. If he could skate like the wind, play good defense AND put up those points he would be Hossa -- and be WELL out of Detroit's price range.

Though he did have more hits last year than any Red Wing forward.

I find that hard to believe. Hudler's cap hit was only $1,015,000. Prospal, despite popular belief, will fetch over $2.5 million+ and will likely get it. Prospal isn't going to sign with the Red Wings for under $600,000 per year. I know some here think all players are willing to take 20% of their fair market value to play on the Wings and will likely flame me for having logic, but he's not gonna sign for under 600k and there are better options for the Wings than his $2.5 million+ price tag.

Not gonna happen.

[mmamolo 287]

I think that previous post was referring to signing Prospal at half the cost of what it would take to sign Hudler this year, not last. EIther way though I think you're right, it's not happening and Prospal will get $2.5M elsewhere

[hockey23 79]

^ beat me to it

Edited July 28, 2009 by hockey23

[egroen 384]

I find that hard to believe. Hudler's cap hit was only $1,015,000. Prospal, despite popular belief, will fetch over $2.5 million+ and will likely get it. Prospal isn't going to sign with the Red Wings for under $600,000 per year. I know some here think all players are willing to take 20% of their fair market value to play on the Wings and will likely flame me for having logic, but he's not gonna sign for under 600k and there are better options for the Wings than his $2.5 million+ price tag.

Not gonna happen.

Holland was offering Hudler up to $3m per year -- Prospal will be cheaper than that, bring similar (or more) offense and more size and hitting.

Wings have $1.6m - $1.8m in cap space currently, with Abdelkader on the roster.

Holland was planning on trading a defenseman anyways (let's say Lebda at $650k) and you now have $2.3m in cap space.

If Lilja is on LTIR you have more, and if Abdelkader ($850k cap hit) stays in GR and is replaced by a league minimum type guy you have even more space.

Edited July 28, 2009 by egroen

[mmamolo 287]

Holland was offering Hudler up to $3m per year -- Prospal will be cheaper than that, bring similar (or more) offense and more size and hitting.

Wings have $1.6m - $1.8m in cap space currently, with Abdelkader on the roster.

Holland was planning on trading a defenseman anyways (let's say Lebda at $650k) and you now have $2.3m in cap space.

If Lilja is on LTIR you have more, and if Abdelkader ($850k cap hit) stays in GR and is replaced by a league minimum type guy you have even more space.

If Lilja is on LTIR I dont see Detroit trading Lebda, at least not right away. But say what you wrote makes a lot of sense financially. If you replace Abdelkader with a 500k player you now have 1.9-2.2M to sign Prospal. That is without moving anyone yet.

[Snazzy 0]

Holland was offering Hudler up to $3m per year -- Prospal will be cheaper than that, bring similar (or more) offense and more size and hitting.

Wings have $1.6m - $1.8m in cap space currently, with Abdelkader on the roster.

Holland was planning on trading a defensemen anyways (let's say Lebda at $650k) and you now have $2.3m in cap space.

If Lilja is on LTIR you have more, and if Abdelkader stays in GR and is replaced by a league minimum type guy you have even more space.

So what you're saying is if Red Wings sign Prospal (at a logical salary), they'll still be over the cap limit -- even if they send Abby down and trade/waive Lebda?

Wings don't need a 2nd liner. Our top six is just fine with Datsuyk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Holmstrom, Fillipula, and Cleary. Wings could use a solid 3rd liner if they want to send Abby back to GR. Oulahen and McGrath must play or clear waivers, and we could potentially lose them on waivers. So I think Holland plans to give them a shot at camp and go from there. *IF* they don't pan out, rumor has it that Mike Grier would love to come to Detroit.

Wings will still be the top 3 team in our division, I don't think Holland needs to break the bank to get players we don't need. Our depth is still very strong.

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

So what you're saying is if Red Wings sign Prospal (at a logical salary), they'll still be over the cap limit -- even if they send Abby down and trade/waive Lebda?

Wings don't need a 2nd liner. Our top six is just fine with Datsuyk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Holmstrom, Fillipula, and Cleary. Wings could use a solid 3rd liner if they want to send Abby back to GR. Oulahen and McGrath must play or clear waivers, and we could potentially lose them on waivers. So I think Holland plans to give them a shot at camp and go from there. *IF* they don't pan out, rumor has it that Mike Grier would love to come to Detroit.

Wings will still be the top 3 team in our division, I don't think Holland needs to break the bank to get players we don't need. Our depth is still very strong.

Top 3 in our Division? I'd be surpised if Chicago overtook us, let alone CBJ.

Assuming you meant Conference.

[egroen 384]

So what you're saying is if Red Wings sign Prospal (at a logical salary), they'll still be over the cap limit -- even if they send Abby down and trade/waive Lebda?

What is a "logical salary" for a player that was making $3.5m on an awful team? And who already is guaranteed 1/3 of that salary over the next 6 years?

I have to think a $2m a year offer from the Detroit Red Wings would be taken very seriously.

Jay McKee was making $4m a year before he was bought out and just signed for $800k with the Penguins. It's crazy to think anyone else would consider doing that for a contender. Crazy!

Wings don't need a 2nd liner. Our top six is just fine with Datsuyk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Holmstrom, Fillipula, and Cleary. Wings could use a solid 3rd liner if they want to send Abby back to GR. Oulahen and McGrath must play or clear waivers, and we could potentially lose them on waivers. So I think Holland plans to give them a shot at camp and go from there. *IF* they don't pan out, rumor has it that Mike Grier would love to come to Detroit.

Sure - after losing Hossa, Samuelsson and Hudler a little offensive help would be such a waste!

What this team needs is someone who would be lucky to tally 10 pts, not 70!

Wings will still be the top 3 team in our division, I don't think Holland needs to break the bank to get players we don't need. Our depth is still very strong.

Right. There's no reason to get better just for the sake of getting better! Let's not make Ilitch spend up to the cap... this recession has hit him hard!

[mmamolo 287]

Although I agree that the wings dont need another top 6 forward I do think if you can get one for $2M or less it's worth jumping on. If you go to capgeek.com and generate a roster by dropping Abdelkader and Lebda and adding Prospal at $2M and another forward at 500k the Wings end up with a little under 700k left in cap space. This ofcourse is with Hudler off the roster. You could sign a guy like Shanahan to play on the 4th with Maltby and Draper while keeping Abdelkader to come up and down. They would even have enough money to keep either McGrath or Oulahan as the 13th forward since so many ppl here seem to love those two guys off.

You could have a Roster somethign like:

Datsyuk - Zetterberg - Holmstrom

Prospal - Filppula - Franzen

Clear - Helm - Leino

Maltby - Draper - Shanahan

Oulahan/McGrath

Lidstrom - Rafalski

Stuart - Kronwall

Ericsson - Lilja

Meech

Osgood - Howard

In doing so you'd have ~180k in cap space. Or they could either move Lilja and keep Lebda and save another ~600k. But that seems unlikely since Meech and Lebda are so somilar and Lilja seems to be the best of the three.

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

Although I agree that the wings dont need another top 6 forward I do think if you can get one for $2M or less it's worth jumping on. If you go to capgeek.com and generate a roster by dropping Abdelkader and Lebda and adding Prospal at $2M and another forward at 500k the Wings end up with a little under 700k left in cap space. This ofcourse is with Hudler off the roster. You could sign a guy like Shanahan to play on the 4th with Maltby and Draper while keeping Abdelkader to come up and down. They would even have enough money to keep either McGrath or Oulahan as the 13th forward since so many ppl here seem to love those two guys off.

You could have a Roster somethign like:

Datsyuk - Zetterberg - Holmstrom

Prospal - Filppula - Franzen

Clear - Helm - Leino

Maltby - Draper - Shanahan

Oulahan/McGrath

Lidstrom - Rafalski

Stuart - Kronwall

Ericsson - Lilja

Meech

Osgood - Howard

In doing so you'd have ~180k in cap space. Or they could either move Lilja and keep Lebda and save another ~600k. But that seems unlikely since Meech and Lebda are so somilar and Lilja seems to be the best of the three.

Please explain to me why you chose Shanahan instead of Abdelkader or a grinder like Grier.

[mmamolo 287]

Please explain to me why you chose Shanahan instead of Abdelkader or a grinder like Grier.

No particular reason. It was arbitrary at that point. I was just saying someone at league minimum would be nice. If you wanted to plus Abdelakader or Greir in you could. Although that would make having a 13th forward a little tougher. But yeah the name (whoever you want to plug in those last spots) doesnt matter. I had just read a list of remaining UFAs and it mentioned he was looking to sign for the league min so it popped into my head. But the point remains the same no matter who you plug into that spot.

Persaonlly, no matter who it is I would rather see Abdelkader spend the bulk of the year in GR playing 20+ minutes a night instead of on our 4th line. But thats just my opinion. I think he'd be better served doing so.

[egroen 384]

Let's just say Prospal is one of those crazy Euros that actually wants to win a Cup once in his career.

Pittsburgh currently has $1.1m in cap space and Detroit has $1.6m in cap space.... without making any changes.

[Snazzy 0]

What is a "logical salary" for a player that was making $3.5m on an awful team? And who already is guaranteed 1/3 of that salary over the next 6 years?

What is logical is what he would be offered. I'm sure other teams out there, including the Penguins, will be inquiring about him. Why should he take a huge discount from what he is offered to come to the Wings? There are other good teams out there that will make the playoffs.

I have to think a $2m a year offer from the Detroit Red Wings would be taken very seriously.

Jay McKee was making $4m a year before he was bought out and just signed for $800k with the Penguins. It's crazy to think anyone else would consider doing that for a contender. Crazy!

So just because one guy takes a discount after a buy-out means that every player in the world should follow suite? I agree, that is "Crazy!" logic.

Sure - after losing Hossa, Samuelsson and Hudler a little offensive help would be such a waste!

What this team needs is someone who would be lucky to tally 10 pts, not 70!

We won the cup without Hossa. Who knows, we might have won the cup without Hossa in 09 if Holland used that salary for someone else who plays well in the playoff. Sammy and Hudler are 3rd line players. Now we have Helm / Leino and Oulahen / McGrath to plug holes. If the two ladder guys don't pan out, Holland may find a diamond in the rough (i.e Cleary) and if not, *we have cap space at trade deadline

Right. There's no reason to get better just for the sake of getting better! Let's not make Ilitch spend up to the cap... this recession has hit him hard!

So burn up all the cap space now and hope for the best? I tend to think it's better to have a little space come trade deadline, or for injuries. *see above

Reply in bold

Edited July 28, 2009 by Snazzy

[egroen 384]

What is logical is what he would be offered. I'm sure other teams out there, including the Penguins, will be inquiring about him. Why should he take a huge discount from what he is offered to come to the Wings? There are other good teams out there that will make the playoffs.

The Wings have $1.6m in current cap space and can make around a $2.5m offer without losing any significant pieces to their roster. Holland was offering Hudler $3m - and Prospal is an upgrade.

The Penguins have $1.1m and would have more difficulty than the Wings in clearing up more space.... though the opportunity to play on Malkin's wing would have to be extremely enticing.

So just because one guy takes a discount after a buy-out means that every player in the world should follow suite? I agree, that is "Crazy!" logic.

You've never heard of players taking discounts for a chance at the Cup?

These buyout guys are unique situations. McKee did it and so did Bertuzzi last year. They're already getting good money from their old club, so why not go to a top contender?

We won the cup without Hossa. Who knows, we might have won the cup without Hossa in 09 if Holland used that salary for someone else who plays well in the playoff. Sammy and Hudler are 3rd line players. Now we have Helm / Leino and Oulahen / McGrath to plug holes. If the two ladder guys don't pan out, Holland may find a diamond in the rough (i.e Cleary) and if not, *we have cap space at trade deadline

But we did not win the Cup without Hudler and Samuelsson - in fact, they were a large part of the offensive depth that won it for us.

Trade deadline acquisitions require trading away assets -- and chances are, for what the Wings are usually willing to trade away, Prospal is much better than anyone they would have a chance to acquire. It's also nice when players have all year to gel with their linemates.

So burn up all the cap space now and hope for the best? I tend to think it's better to have a little space come trade deadline, or for injuries. *see above

I 100% disagree. I hate seeing draft picks and prospects go for mere plugggers at the trade deadline. Sign someone now and you lose nothing.

If there is an injury, you can still exceed the cap by that same pro-rated amount so you can still make a trade deadline acquisition if you need to.

Edited July 28, 2009 by egroen

[Snazzy 0]

Let's just say Prospal is one of those crazy Euros that actually wants to win a Cup once in his career.

Pittsburgh currently has $1.1m in cap space and Detroit has $1.6m in cap space.... without making any changes.

Capgeek.com has Detroit at $1.8 million and Penguins at $1.8 million (after bonuses) and both teams have a 21 man roster.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Pittsburgh proved this year that bringing in new players at the deadline can work if done right. Kunitz, Guerin, Fedetenko, and Adams. All grity guys that have won before, they'll be guys available at the deadline. Trading without giving up assets is a thing of the past, sometimes its the best option. I dont really like Prospal or most of the other FA's but I really just want something to happen

[egroen 384]

Capgeek.com has Detroit at $1.8 million and Penguins at $1.8 million (after bonuses) and both teams have a 21 man roster.

Lovejoy is currently the 7th defenseman and is not counting towards the cap at your site there (because he is on a two-way contract) -- Pittsburgh would need to then either send down a forward or trade one.

Edited July 28, 2009 by egroen

[Snazzy 0]

The Wings have $1.6m in current cap space and can make around a $2.5m offer without losing any significant pieces to their roster. Holland was offering Hudler $3m - and Prospal is an upgrade.

The Penguins have $1.1m and would have more difficulty than the Wings in clearing up more space.... though the opportunity to play on Malkin's wing would have to be extremely enticing.

Flip's ice increased ice time in addition to Leino, Helm, and Ericsson will all be an upgrade to the team. Our overall offense may take a hit by some goals, but our overall team defense just improved significantly. If prospel wants to join the Wings for a cap hit of $600,00 - $700,000 for a one year deal, then sure, take him. But I doubt that'll happen. He'll likely get some $2.5+ million offers from other good teams.

You've never heard of players taking discounts for a chance at the Cup?

These buyout guys are unique situations. McKee did it and so did Bertuzzi last year. They're already getting good money from their old club, so why not go to a top contender?

Last time I checked, there will be 16 teams making the playoffs, and once the playoffs begin, anything goes. So yes, all 16 teams will have a chance. One could argue that there are better contenders next year than Detroit--but I'm a firm believer that Detroit is a very strong contender without Prospal or Hudler. We don't need a 2nd liner that can't be defensively responsible. We could use a solid 3rd liner that can eat some PK time

But we did not win the Cup without Hudler and Samuelsson - in fact, they were a large part of the offensive depth that won it for us.

I said HOSSA, not Hudler and Sammy. I was pointing out that Hudler and Sammy are both 3rd liners and are expandable -- Leino will be fine and Helm will be a force, Flip needs 2nd line ice time so he can take his game to the next level. Will we be better offensively than last year? Probably not, but we will be much better defensively. Defense wins championships.

Trade deadline acquisitions require trading away assets -- and chances are, for what the Wings are usually willing to trade away, Prospal is much better than anyone they would have a chance to acquire. It's also nice when players have all year to gel with their linemates.

Not entirely true. Holland said he is trading a defenseman. Lebda is one hell of an asset for what he gets paid and what he brings to the table. He is very trade-able. We don't need to trade high picks, but Holland has proven that he does better trading high picks, winning cups and finding talent that nobody else would expect... this organization has built itself on doing this for the past 15 years, why stop now? I like winning cups, don't you?

I 100% disagree. I hate seeing draft picks and prospects go for mere plugggers at the trade deadline. Sign someone now and you lose nothing.

I'm glad Holland doesn't panic like some of the LGW posters do. I say leave the GM job to the best (Holland) and you stick to NHL 09.

If there is an injury, you can still exceed the cap by that same pro-rated amount so you can still make a trade deadline acquisition if you need to.

Speaking of injuries, I hope Lilja has a speedy recovery and is ready for the start of the season. With that said, Wings are going to be fine. No need for panic.

[Guest Lidstromboli]

I traded Hudler for Prospal in NHL 08 a couple weeks ago, so it's obviously going to happen.

[egroen 384]

Flip's ice increased ice time in addition to Leino, Helm, and Ericsson will all be an upgrade to the team. Our overall offense may take a hit by some goals, but our overall team defense just improved significantly. If prospel wants to join the Wings for a cap hit of $600,00 - $700,000 for a one year deal, then sure, take him. But I doubt that'll happen. He'll likely get some $2.5+ million offers from other good teams.

Ericsson will help improve the defense, but he is a far cry from Lilja defensively - downgrade there.

Helm is an energy guy, looks lost in his own end, but could get better - not better defensively than Hossa or even Kopecky - downgrade there.

And Leino is pretty much Hudler defensively.

Where's the "significant improvement"?

So our offense has taken a nose dive, and our defense has been downgraded as well.

If you do not think a forward like Prospal is worth more than $700k you are a blithering buffoon.

Last time I checked, there will be 16 teams making the playoffs, and once the playoffs begin, anything goes. So yes, all 16 teams will have a chance. One could argue that there are better contenders next year than Detroit--but I'm a firm believer that Detroit is a very strong contender without Prospal or Hudler. We don't need a 2nd liner that can't be defensively responsible. We could use a solid 3rd liner that can eat some PK time

So all 16 playoff teams are created equal? Do you really believe Prospal would demand the same money from Detroit or Pittsburgh that he would from the Blue Jackets? Do you pay attention at all to free agent signings each year?

We need a player that can make a difference -- and a player that is capable of putting up 80 points can make a big difference. The unique situation surrounding this player (bought out) may very well make him affordable, and plus you can still have your all-important 3rd line plugger.

I said HOSSA, not Hudler and Sammy. I was pointing out that Hudler and Sammy are both 3rd liners and are expandable -- Leino will be fine and Helm will be a force, Flip needs 2nd line ice time so he can take his game to the next level. Will we be better offensively than last year? Probably not, but we will be much better defensively. Defense wins championships.

Detroit won in 08 largely because of incredible offensive depth coming from all the lines. They only got as far as they did last year because of incredible depth stepping in with all the injuries. As it is right now, Detroit is a 2 line team.

Hudler and Samuelsson combined for 49 points the last 2 post-seasons... and you describe them as junk 3rd line players whom AHLers can just walk in and replace. Get a clue. Darren Helm had all of 5 pts in the playoffs last year with pretty good minutes (4 the year before). Leino had 2 pts in 7 games.

You'll also have to explain to me how Detroit will just magically be better defensively with their roster changes from last year.

Not entirely true. Holland said he is trading a defenseman. Lebda is one hell of an asset for what he gets paid and what he brings to the table. He is very trade-able. We don't need to trade high picks, but Holland has proven that he does better trading high picks, winning cups and finding talent that nobody else would expect... this organization has built itself on doing this for the past 15 years, why stop now? I like winning cups, don't you?

LOL! Are you kidding me??? Lebda!?

You're suggesting Holland dangle LEBDA at the trade deadline? That is too funny!

You do realize Lebda in that case is a RENTAL, being signed only until the end of the season.

Yeah, a 3rd pairing defenseman rental is really going to bring in a difference making roster player at the trade deadline!

The only way Lebda has value is if he is traded at the beginning of the season, so a team can enjoy his services all year at a low cap hit.

I'm glad Holland doesn't panic like some of the LGW posters do. I say leave the GM job to the best (Holland) and you stick to NHL 09.

Ah yes, you're one of those posters who enjoys portraying their ignorance onto Holland.

Weren't you adamant "Hudler is NOT worth $3m" and that luckily Holland was not as crazy as "SOME posters" as well? Turns out Holland was in line with my posted thoughts and felt Hudler was indeed worth $3m. He is not an idiot.

Defensive forwards can be had in the NHL for a dime a dozen and at league minimum. What gets the dollars in the NHL are guys that can ultimately put up points. I'm sorry, but Holland recognizes this, or he never would have offered Hudler good money to stay on the team. If you do not think Holland is interested in Prospal - a true scorer and playmaker, with size and whom outhit all of Detroit's players last year (meaning Babcock would actually play him) - you are really selling Holland short. Do you think he is a fool? You'd prefer him to sit on his thumbs and hope an old, slow, injury-ridden Grier can play on the 3rd line and put up 20 points?

Speaking of injuries, I hope Lilja has a speedy recovery and is ready for the start of the season. With that said, Wings are going to be fine. No need for panic.

Being concerned is not "panicking". Both Holland and Jimmy Devellano have expressed the exact same concern in interviews. "Fine" is not acceptable for the Detroit Red Wings.

Edited July 29, 2009 by egroen