egroen 384 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 I want a goon as soon as Maltby is retired -- one useless player (offensively) is about all I can stand. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Swayze 81 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) We brought in Ulf f'n Sammuelsson for f's sake. Derek Boogaard is far classier in comparison. You're still not getting this. In my definition of the words, Boogaard would be an Enforcer, not a goon. Just because someone fights doesn't make them a goon, it's what else they do that makes them a goon. - If someone constantly cheapshots other players, they're a goon - If they antagonize fights for little to no reason, they're a goon - If they play a physical game without taking many penalties, they're an enforcer - If they pick their spots and fight when either defending their team or trying to cause a momentum swing, they're an enforcer And I never agreed with the team bringing in Ulf, he's classless and i'm glad Domi gave him what was coming to him. BTW, he played a whopping 4 games in the Winged Wheel. Edited August 3, 2009 by Swayze Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeverForgetMac25 483 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 Yeah...a goon clearly is what the Wings need to secure the cup this season. [/sarcasm] Jesus Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
uk_redwing 495 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 YEH BABY!!! GOON IT UP BOYS! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 YEH BABY!!! GOON IT UP BOYS! And people called Feds soft, what a guy! I want to see Datsyuk pull that on some ***** on Chicago this year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frozen-Man 144 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 He just said "a" goon. Don't overdramatize. So guys, what are the chances that this thread turns into an enforcer debate? Would you tell a Wings fan who said "I want my team to be current stanley Cup Champions" to become a Penguins fan? Horrible and very twisted logic. One is a style of play that every team can and does control, and that any, all, or none of the NHL are capable of being at the same time. It is in no way mutually exclusive. The other is a position that is only capable of being held by any one team to the exclusion of all others. It is also something that is partially out of the team's own control, injuries, bounces, missed calls, seeding and hundreds of other factors affect that status. It is a ridiculous assertion on your part. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BeeRYCE 2 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 Some "goons" in the NHL are... Cam Janssen Derek Boogaard Donald Brashear Wade Belak Andrew Peters Colton Orr George Parros Raitis Ivanans George Laraque Now tell me, what significant impact do these guys have on their respective team? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Shoreline Report post Posted August 3, 2009 Yeah...a goon clearly is what the Wings need to secure the cup this season. [/sarcasm] Jesus Jesus cannot save this forum from goon nuts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 Some "goons" in the NHL are... Cam Janssen Derek Boogaard Donald Brashear Wade Belak Andrew Peters Colton Orr George Parros Raitis Ivanans George Laraque Now tell me, what significant impact do these guys have on their respective team? Lets get started. Janssen is just a crazy prick, I wouldnt mess with him because he's got that look in his eye like Simon had. Boogaard was hurt last year, but the year before that, Lemaire had him on the powerplay in a Homer role, and he didnt do so bad, and he's the biggest dude in the NHL, no one screws with Boogaard unless they want there jaw broken. Brashear can play, he's just a dirtbag, wouldnt want him Belak is one of my favorite players, and one of the most entertaining guys off ice, I'd take him just because he add some charisma to this team. (He'd be buddys with Datsyuk in no time) Peters is garbage and done as an NHLer Orr can actually play, and will be a decent contributor for Toronto in the intangibles department. Parros, 1 word: Moustache Ivanans is garbage, he'll be out of the NHL soon Laraque, can play, can fight, no one ever wants to fight him, so he must be a little bit intimidating, and like Belak, has a ton of character and charisma. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeverForgetMac25 483 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 Some "goons" in the NHL are... Cam Janssen Derek Boogaard Donald Brashear Wade Belak Andrew Peters Colton Orr George Parros Raitis Ivanans George Laraque Now tell me, what significant impact do these guys have on their respective team? Woah, woah, woah BeeRYCE. Easy on the logic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Pred 48 337 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 Well we could pick up Andrew Peters from Buffalo, Andre Roy from Calgary and Mitch Fritz from the Islanders who are all UFA's. Don't think it would cost that much either. Put them on the 4th line and wait for the fireworks to start. We can then keep Abs in GR as the front office would prefer and sit Malts as the 13th fwd as most on here want. We have $1.8m cap space at present we trade Meech for some pick/s giving us a $2.3m cap space. Peters and Fritz we give $.5m and Roy $.7m (he has got some offence) on 1yr deals leaving us a cap space of $0.6m. With Lils looking highly doubtful we can put him on long term injured list giving us a further $1.25m cap hit. Hence keeping Lebda on the roster. When/if Lils is ready we can trade Lebda. Simples!! Oh yeah, one minor drawback. The 4th line will be a - 30 by XMAS!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skacore 2 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 BECOME A FLYERS FAN Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeverForgetMac25 483 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 Lets get started. Janssen is just a crazy prick, I wouldnt mess with him because he's got that look in his eye like Simon had. Boogaard was hurt last year, but the year before that, Lemaire had him on the powerplay in a Homer role, and he didnt do so bad, and he's the biggest dude in the NHL, no one screws with Boogaard unless they want there jaw broken. Brashear can play, he's just a dirtbag, wouldnt want him Belak is one of my favorite players, and one of the most entertaining guys off ice, I'd take him just because he add some charisma to this team. (He'd be buddys with Datsyuk in no time) Peters is garbage and done as an NHLer Orr can actually play, and will be a decent contributor for Toronto in the intangibles department. Parros, 1 word: Moustache Ivanans is garbage, he'll be out of the NHL soon Laraque, can play, can fight, no one ever wants to fight him, so he must be a little bit intimidating, and like Belak, has a ton of character and charisma. He said significant, not barely noticeable. Calling someone a "crazy prick" or stating that "no one screws with Boorgard" is your inflated opinion of an enforcers' worth. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) He said significant, not barely noticeable. Calling someone a "crazy prick" or stating that "no one screws with Boorgard" is your inflated opinion of an enforcers' worth. I wasnt estimating there worth, I was saying what they provide, and that they arent just names on an NHL roster, as many on here believe they are. These guys have roles, and they florish in there roles. Most guys are different, but no one takes the time, because hey, there just ******* goons, who cares right? Are they more important to there team then the stars? Nah, obviously not, but the stars sure do appreciate the stuff they go through for them. Enforcers, tough guys, goons, they dont fight for the sake of getting bumps and bruises, they do it for the team. Because the team is like a family, and you always protect your family. That's why I respect those types of players so much, I know I'm in the minority, but my stance wont change, and I'll always believe theres room for a player. Edited August 3, 2009 by Detroit # 1 Fan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Shoreline Report post Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) I know I'm in the minority, but my stance wont change At least you'll concede then that this is pretty much a religion for you, since it's religious stances that do not change. All types of religion or religious views suck. This one especially, regarding this team needing fighters. Edited August 3, 2009 by Shoreline Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeverForgetMac25 483 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 I wasnt estimating there worth, I was saying what they provide, and that they arent just names on an NHL roster, as many on here believe they are. These guys have roles, and they florish in there roles. Most guys are different, but no one takes the time, because hey, there just ******* goons, who cares right? Are they more important to there team then the stars? Nah, obviously not, but the stars sure do appreciate the stuff they go through for them. Enforcers, tough guys, goons, they dont fight for the sake of getting bumps and bruises, they do it for the team. Because the team is like a family, and you always protect your family. That's why I respect those types of players so much, I know I'm in the minority, but my stance wont change, and I'll always believe theres room for a player. There's always room for a player that can stand up for his teammates and drop the mits from time to time. Goons as whole in this league aren't the make-it or break-it for a Stanley Cup winner. That's my only point. I'm not under the impression that "they're just ******* goons, who cares right" (as you put it), but I also don't overestimate their worth. There's a difference between making an impact and a significant impact. The guys BeeRYCE listed at best make an impact. No more. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 At least you'll concede then that this is pretty much a religion for you, since it's religious stances that do not change. All types of religion or religious views suck. This one especially, regarding this team needing fighters. Religion? Nah, not much of a religious guy. It's just how I've always been, growing up you had to be tough if you wanted to make it if you werent as talented as the other kids. So I've always associated myself with those types of players. And I know most posters get sick of us talking and clamouring for tough guys, but it wont stop. I dont even do it much anymore, because theres no point. We wont get one, it isnt Kennys way. It's unfortunate, but nothing we can do as fans but just cheer on the team and hope for the best. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 There's always room for a player that can stand up for his teammates and drop the mits from time to time. Goons as whole in this league aren't the make-it or break-it for a Stanley Cup winner. That's my only point. I'm not under the impression that "they're just ******* goons, who cares right" (as you put it), but I also don't overestimate their worth. There's a difference between making an impact and a significant impact. The guys BeeRYCE listed at best make an impact. No more. See, were on the same page here then. I dont want a guy like Mitch Fritz who can go out and fight everyone in sight, but contribute nothing. Laraque, and guys in that mold are perfect. I also dont believe that enforcers are make it break it for the Cup either, I've just always been of the mindset it sure couldnt hurt. I mean we did have tough guys around either in the regular season or the playoffs for all our Cup wins, so maybe Kenny could just go back to the well one more time?! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeverForgetMac25 483 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 See, were on the same page here then. I dont want a guy like Mitch Fritz who can go out and fight everyone in sight, but contribute nothing. Laraque, and guys in that mold are perfect. I also dont believe that enforcers are make it break it for the Cup either, I've just always been of the mindset it sure couldnt hurt. I mean we did have tough guys around either in the regular season or the playoffs for all our Cup wins, so maybe Kenny could just go back to the well one more time?! We're somewhat on same page, but not completely. Who was it that was on the team in 07/08 that you'd consider a "tough guy?" Drake as well as a part-time Mac and Downey don't really count in my book when compared to the others you listed. It was no different than last year, yet one year we have a Cup to show for it and the other we ended up one game shy. All this being said, I'd take a Drake-type of player any day for the 4th line. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Shoreline Report post Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) Religion? Nah, not much of a religious guy. It's just how I've always been, growing up you had to be tough if you wanted to make it if you werent as talented as the other kids. So I've always associated myself with those types of players. And I know most posters get sick of us talking and clamouring for tough guys, but it wont stop. I dont even do it much anymore, because theres no point. We wont get one, it isnt Kennys way. It's unfortunate, but nothing we can do as fans but just cheer on the team and hope for the best. So even though you watch this team win without any emphasis on fighting, you still push for this team to have fighters. It's too bad, if you're not religious, that you can't see that this is absolutely 100% the same as one, since religion only relies on subjective beliefs [fighters] and not at all on objectivity [this team does well without them]. And I get the feeling you're only cheering as a concession in hopes that one day this team emphasizes fighting again -- which it hasn't really done in.. well over 10 years. I guess simply liking your team unconditionally, as well as putting trust in a person who delivers results (a far cry from 'faith' itself) such as Kenny, is a lot to ask. If anything, I think Wings fans are, in general, finding things to complain about. This is what happens when a team is way too successful, and fans start getting excessively fault-finding, or want their team the way they want it or relentlessly *****, and not very much appreciating success. Was quite a different story not long ago. Edited August 3, 2009 by Shoreline Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skacore 2 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 1 year of winning the cup with a pretty soft team (that still had Drake, McCarty, and Downey on it) and suddenly 100 years of hockey history goes out the window... you no longer need grit, size, or toughness to be successful in the playoffs. I think a lot of posters here became Wings' fans after watching a Pavel Datsyuk MTV cribs episode or something... Nevermind the fact that we are blessed to have 2 of the best all around forwards in the world, the best D in the world, and probably the most clutch goalie in the world, that's not why we're a good team, it's because we plug holes with guys like Lebda, Samuelsson, Williams?, Meech, Kopecky, post lockout Maltby... right... If every team iced a team like the Red Wings do in the regular season, the NHL would go out of business in a few years because fans all over North America would slowly lose interest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrisdetroit 189 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 Pronger already signed with Philadelphia. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 We're somewhat on same page, but not completely. Who was it that was on the team in 07/08 that you'd consider a "tough guy?" Drake as well as a part-time Mac and Downey don't really count in my book when compared to the others you listed. It was no different than last year yet one year we have a Cup to show for it, and the other we ended up one game short. Disagree. Downey played more then half a seasons worth of games, his impact was felt. The Wings played much tougher that season, Franzen running guys over, and even getting a bit dirty with it sometimes (Barret Jackman from behind into the boards?) Datsyuk started getting fiesty, and it's carried over. Even Flip and Hudler played bigger then they had before, obviously Downeys impact wasnt that of a Laraque or Boogaard, but it was still felt. Drake stuck up for his mates, Corey Perry in the 1st game was something I'll never forget, grabbing Ott after he went after Lidstrom, and his stock really rose in the playoffs, he just ran everything in sight over, I watched the Nashville series again during last week on the NHL network, and he was just great, never made any bad plays, hit everything, got chippy. As far as Mac, he played solid defense, brought some leadership, and even made a few hits and did fight McCormick to stick a fork in the Avs. I know to some those impacts are huge, and of course they arent that of Zetterberg or Datsyuks contributions, but in 06, Datsyuk, Zetterberg and those types, didnt really get all that physical, after a year of having tougher mates, they're hitting everything during the postseason. They were the ones targetting Crosby and Malkin in the finals, and yes, I know that you cant bring that passion from the playoffs into the regular season, but thats what an enforcer is for, generate some energy and the juices flowing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skacore 2 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 So even though you watch this team win without any emphasis on fighting, you still push for this team to have fighters. It's too bad, if you're not religious, that you can't see that this is absolutely 100% the same as one, since religion only relies on subjective beliefs [fighters] and not at all on objectivity [this team does well without them]. And I get the feeling you're only cheering as a concession in hopes that one day this team emphasizes fighting again -- which it hasn't really done in.. well over 10 years. I guess simply liking your team unconditionally, as well as putting trust in a person who delivers results (a far cry from 'faith' itself) such as Kenny, is a lot to ask. If anything, I think Wings fans are, in general, finding things to complain about. This is what happens when a team is way too successful, and fans start getting excessively fault-finding, or want their team the way they want it or relentlessly *****, and not very much appreciating success. Was quite a different story not long ago. I think people put too much attention into the world FIGHTING.. what most fans really want is just a team that sticks up for themselves and doesn't back down, if a fight is necessary then by all means... the teams we had in '97 and '98 would outplay teams, outhit teams, and intimidate them while doing so... we still outplay teams but we have to turn the other cheek and hide behind the linesmen because we have nobody who can do anything themselves... we would never be considered "Hockeytown" if we iced a team like this throughout the 90's until today, that's for sure Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrisdetroit 189 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 1 year of winning the cup with a pretty soft team (that still had Drake, McCarty, and Downey on it) and suddenly 100 years of hockey history goes out the window... you no longer need grit, size, or toughness to be successful in the playoffs. I think a lot of posters here became Wings' fans after watching a Pavel Datsyuk MTV cribs episode or something... Nevermind the fact that we are blessed to have 2 of the best all around forwards in the world, the best D in the world, and probably the most clutch goalie in the world, that's not why we're a good team, it's because we plug holes with guys like Lebda, Samuelsson, Williams?, Meech, Kopecky, post lockout Maltby... right... If every team iced a team like the Red Wings do in the regular season, the NHL would go out of business in a few years because fans all over North America would slowly lose interest The game has changed and you haven't. The NHL is more popular now than it ever was. Maybe it's time for you to move on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
