Goon

[newfy 695]

yes, definitely... I think it will become a bit of a trend in the next few years to be completely honest... Anaheim was a dominant team when they won and they were still very solid this year and pushed us to the very limit and they're even in a bit of a rebuild you could say, yeah they lost Pronger but they've really done well to solidify their team and their top line is just ridiculous and going to get so much better, I'd expect them to contend for years to come

Flyers are another team that I think are going to take the next step this year. Pronger really helps the D corps and I could see them battling through a few playoffs rounds and end up in (at the very least) the conference finals

I've posted this a couple times already today but the Penguins have made some minor moves this offseason to get a lot bigger and tougher and they're the defending champs, they obviously see some sort of value there. They acquired Mike Rupp who is 6'5 230ish and was NJ's heavyweight last year, he can play a regular shift on any team's 4th line. They also signed Carolina's part time enforcer Wade Brookbank who is also around 6'4 220-230ish, but I doubt he'll be a full timer for them, just get some games here and there when necessary. On top of that they have one of the best enforcers in the league in Eric Godard (6'4 230). So yeah I think a lot of teams (not all) are really trying to get some big boys who can play and intimidate and I'm really looking forward to some of the battles that are gonna take place this year.

Yeah Mike Rupp sure would've looked good in a wings jersey. Able to play a regular shift, fight any of the heavies and knows when to pick his spots. I really wish the wings would've signed him espcially for how cheap he went to the pens.

[Buppy 1,720]

Someone who makes a comment is either a 14 year old kid who wasn't old enough to remember 97 and 98, a bandwagon fan that just recently jumped on board or someone that has had their vision blurred by all this euro no toughness hockey the wings have been playing this year. So tell me, which one are you? 97 and 98 we iced some of the toughest teams in the league. Forget all this classy bulls*** you guys talk about now. Anyone remember Macarty jumping turtle or Lapointe sucker punching King? We had Shanny, Lapointe, Kocur, Macarty, Vladdy, Maltby threw his weight around, Pushor and Ward. Now I'm sure a huge fan like yourself couldn't have forgotten these players already but if you did that should serve as a reminder that this team used to be tough and everyone loved it. Not too mention that tough team that could play repeated something this team with a PP enforcer and no heart couldn't do.

Just had to reply to this...

Both before and after the 97 and 98 Cups, the major criticism from Wing's fans was the lack of team toughness, the same as it is today.

And this team was one or two bounces from repeating. They had more injuries in the playoffs, and lacked the inspirational mascot of Vladdy. Blaming it on a lack of heart or toughness is retarded, and pretty much makes you a bandwagon fan yourself.

[Guest Shoreline]

Someone who makes a comment is either a 14 year old kid who wasn't old enough to remember 97 and 98, a bandwagon fan that just recently jumped on board or someone that has had their vision blurred by all this euro no toughness hockey the wings have been playing this year. So tell me, which one are you? 97 and 98 we iced some of the toughest teams in the league. Forget all this classy bulls*** you guys talk about now. Anyone remember Macarty jumping turtle or Lapointe sucker punching King? We had Shanny, Lapointe, Kocur, Macarty, Vladdy, Maltby threw his weight around, Pushor and Ward. Now I'm sure a huge fan like yourself couldn't have forgotten these players already but if you did that should serve as a reminder that this team used to be tough and everyone loved it. Not too mention that tough team that could play repeated something this team with a PP enforcer and no heart couldn't do.

I became a Red Wings fan last month, duh. Sorry, can't take that line of bulls*** seriously that you started your post off with. I remember this one specific event you mentioned, and it's very famous so you could have, in fact, just jumped on the bandwagon and watched some Youtube videos and made the claim. Eat that.

That event didn't define this team as "tough". It defined it as intense, as a rivalry. As mentioned, this team was at the bottom of the league in fighting majors. I dunno why you have to delude yourself into thinking that was a tough team in THOSE regards. They hit a lot, and that made them tough, just like this team hits a lot, and they are tough too, and like the other recent cup teams they don't fight much at all. Not a fighting team anymore than the Devils with the bottom-of-the-league in goals during those cup run of theirs were a scoring team. It must really suck for wanna-be-tough-fighting-Red-Wings-guys to swallow this. Was there for 97, 98, 02, and 08. Time for a new excuse, and time to use more than one single event to define a team to sound a bit more logical. Having players who would, once in a blue moon, drop the gloves, does NOT make a team "tough" by fighting standards.

Btw, love your "Euro no toughness" spiel. Bet you cried tough guy North American tears when Lidstrom raised the cup.

Edited August 4, 2009 by Shoreline

[newfy 695]

Just had to reply to this...

Both before and after the 97 and 98 Cups, the major criticism from Wing's fans was the lack of team toughness, the same as it is today.

And this team was one or two bounces from repeating. They had more injuries in the playoffs, and lacked the inspirational mascot of Vladdy. Blaming it on a lack of heart or toughness is retarded, and pretty much makes you a bandwagon fan yourself.

Oh so as soon as I point out that one of these people who seem allergic to even the thought of a tough team were wrong in a post that was trying to downplay the fact that toughness has a role in the NHL I become a bandwagon fan. Fact of the matter is those tough teams that had heart (regardless of what you say those teams were tough and to say they aren't is retarded) repeated and this year's version of the redwings didn't. You can't argue that point and I'm not saying this year we didn't have a very good team but we didn't have the best when it mattered most. Hockey is a man's game and Holland is starting to see that with drafting guys like Ferraro with his first pick and right now our team is looking more suited to the brand of hockey played in the Swedish Elite League

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Had to mention Ferraro, jesus, hurry up bud, I want this guy on the Wings now!!!!

[Guest Shoreline]

Oh so as soon as I point out that one of these people who seem allergic to even the thought of a tough team were wrong in a post that was trying to downplay the fact that toughness has a role in the NHL I become a bandwagon fan. Fact of the matter is those tough teams that had heart (regardless of what you say those teams were tough and to say they aren't is retarded) repeated and this year's version of the redwings didn't. You can't argue that point and I'm not saying this year we didn't have a very good team but we didn't have the best when it mattered most. Hockey is a man's game and Holland is starting to see that with drafting guys like Ferraro with his first pick and right now our team is looking more suited to the brand of hockey played in the Swedish Elite League

Toughness is not fighting. Fighting is fighting. Toughness is taking hits, delivering hits, and more importantly, not being stupid, mental toughness. Toughness is being able to throw stupid players off their game and have them take dumb penalties. The Wings are a tough team, just not the type of tough team some people who have an utterly ******* stupid bias against European style hockey dislike. I find it funny for people who have conditions upon how they like the Red Wings, as if there's only one type of hockey to be played or else it's ***** stuff, i.e. fighting or wussy euro team. It's rather disgusting and childish. Oh, and religious-like. Didn't I mention religion sucks earlier?

Edited August 4, 2009 by Shoreline

[newfy 695]

I became a Red Wings fan last month, duh. Sorry, can't take that line of bulls*** seriously that you started your post off with. I remember this one specific event you mentioned, and it's very famous so you could have, in fact, just jumped on the bandwagon and watched some Youtube videos and made the claim. Eat that.

That event didn't define this team as "tough". It defined it as intense, as a rivalry. As mentioned, this team was at the bottom of the league in fighting majors. I dunno why you have to delude yourself into thinking that was a tough team in THOSE regards. They hit a lot, and that made them tough, just like this team hits a lot, and they are tough too, and like the other recent cup teams they don't fight much at all. Not a fighting team anymore than the Devils with the bottom-of-the-league in goals during those cup run of theirs were a scoring team. It must really suck for wanna-be-tough-fighting-Red-Wings-guys to swallow this. Was there for 97, 98, 02, and 08. Time for a new excuse, and time to use more than one single event to define a team to sound a bit more logical. Having players who would, once in a blue moon, drop the gloves, does NOT make a team "tough" by fighting standards.

Btw, love your "Euro no toughness" spiel. Bet you cried tough guy North American tears when Lidstrom raised the cup.

Fighting alot doesn't mean the team couldn't fight. You're telling me that all the players on the 97 team that I meantioned weren't tough? They may have been lower on the fight major numbers then the other teams but they had so many tough players that when they needed to could step up for a teammate. AS it is right now we have one player that has shown fashes of having that capability in Ericcson.

As far as that rivalry goes, do you ever wonder why this team now doesn't really have any rivals outside of the Ducks... Its because without the tough players on the 97 team there would have been no rivalries. The ducks just pound us because they can.

As far as that no euro toughness spiel why don't you tell me what the point of having a guy like Kopecky who was supposed to be gritty for this team doing nothing on the 4th line is. If he's supposed to be gritty and play the body why not get someone who can actually do it? Why not replace Sammy on the 3rd line with a person who plays with the size he has and doesn't hide behind the linesman and throw gloved punches everywhere he can with a ref between him and the oppsoing player. Thats as classless as it gets.

[Buppy 1,720]

Or play solid defense to give the top line guys some rest?

Just had to throw in a rebuttal. I could care less who plays on the fourth line as long as they aren't a liability.

And how many 'solid defense' guys are both available and affordable?

I think we're looking at three groups: Prospects that haven't panned out trying to rekindle their careers and be the next Cleary; Untested kids trying to be the next Draper/Maltby; and Borderline over-the-hill vets trying not to be the current Draper/Maltby.

'Liability' is something I think we just have to accept given our cap situation.

[newfy 695]

Toughness is not fighting. Fighting is fighting. Toughness is taking hits, delivering hits, and more importantly, not being stupid, mental toughness. Toughness is being able to throw stupid players off their game and have them take dumb penalties. The Wings are a tough team, just not the type of tough team some people who have an utterly ******* stupid bias against European style hockey dislike. I find it funny for people who have conditions upon how they like the Red Wings, as if there's only one type of hockey to be played or else it's ***** stuff, i.e. fighting or wussy euro team. It's rather disgusting and childish. Oh, and religious-like. Didn't I mention religion sucks earlier?

Yes and toughness is having guys like Kopecky and Lilja getting their faces mangled everytime they fight. I'm sorry but when I see guys like Drake or Downey holding their own in fights and then Europeans getting pounded it makes me a little biased towards a European style being on the softer side. Oh wait thats right, I'm a fan so I can't critisize anything to do with the wings. I take back everything I just said, I love seeing Kopecky getting his ass kicked all the time, Lilja attempting to fight, and Sammy being a coward behind a linesman. Thats what hockey's supopsed to be about, not having someone on your team to push back when your team gets pushed.

[Buppy 1,720]

Oh so as soon as I point out that one of these people who seem allergic to even the thought of a tough team were wrong in a post that was trying to downplay the fact that toughness has a role in the NHL I become a bandwagon fan. Fact of the matter is those tough teams that had heart (regardless of what you say those teams were tough and to say they aren't is retarded) repeated and this year's version of the redwings didn't. You can't argue that point and I'm not saying this year we didn't have a very good team but we didn't have the best when it mattered most. Hockey is a man's game and Holland is starting to see that with drafting guys like Ferraro with his first pick and right now our team is looking more suited to the brand of hockey played in the Swedish Elite League

What makes you 'bandwagon' is calling your team heartless because they had a few bad breaks/injuries and came up a game short when you would no doubt have both lips tight to the shaft if they'd have gotten a couple lucky bounces and won one of those last two games.

And even in 97, after losing the first 3 games to the Avs, the toughness of that team was in question. Fans have been questioning and critisizing the toughness of the Wings every year for the past two decades almost. Just when we win the Cup no one cares. Win the Cup and the team was tough enough, lose and it wasn't...that's the very definition of bandwagon.

[Buppy 1,720]

And to add one more thing...

The primary reason for the Wing's emphasis on Europeans is because of their position in the draft. It's generally easier to find 'hidden gems' in Europe. North American kids have too many scouts watching them.

[newfy 695]

What makes you 'bandwagon' is calling your team heartless because they had a few bad breaks/injuries and came up a game short when you would no doubt have both lips tight to the shaft if they'd have gotten a couple lucky bounces and won one of those last two games.

And even in 97, after losing the first 3 games to the Avs, the toughness of that team was in question. Fans have been questioning and critisizing the toughness of the Wings every year for the past two decades almost. Just when we win the Cup no one cares. Win the Cup and the team was tough enough, lose and it wasn't...that's the very definition of bandwagon.

The team doesn't have half the heart it did in 97. Even if the wings did win the cup I would want more grit and heart in this lineup because you're never perfect and this is the wings weakness. The differece between the toughess being questioned now and the toughness being questioned then is that now we have barely any toughness, then we did. Maybe you need to loosen your lips off the shaft a little bit and realize toughness is a part of hockey. Has that shaft down your throat made you forget about Drake, Downey, and Mac playing the last time we won the cup?

[RedFX 48]

Yes and toughness is having guys like Kopecky and Lilja getting their faces mangled everytime they fight. I'm sorry but when I see guys like Drake or Downey holding their own in fights and then Europeans getting pounded it makes me a little biased towards a European style being on the softer side. Oh wait thats right, I'm a fan so I can't critisize anything to do with the wings. I take back everything I just said, I love seeing Kopecky getting his ass kicked all the time, Lilja attempting to fight, and Sammy being a coward behind a linesman. Thats what hockey's supopsed to be about, not having someone on your team to push back when your team gets pushed.

Trust me, I hate seeing us get mangled in fights as much as you do. I was sitting about 5 yards away from the Andreas Lilja-Shea Weber fight (add that into a 8-0 loss, multiply the fact that the fiance is a Preds fan, that one's not going to die anytime soon). Would I love to see a McCarty-Lemieux style beat down every game, why not. But remember what's the most important thing here. The only beef I have with some of these posters (and this is not directed at you) is they make it seem like they would give up our success for a team that fights more.

I'm all for a Dallas Drake type guy, someone who can fight, but WHO CAN ALSO CONTRIBUTE WHERE IT COUNTS. If all they do is run around and smash people's face in, they're not contributing to the result of the game. If you get a physical, defensive minded grinded, who can kill penalties as well as hold his own in fights, then fine.

Remember what wins games.

[newfy 695]

Trust me, I hate seeing us get mangled in fights as much as you do. I was sitting about 5 yards away from the Andreas Lilja-Shea Weber fight (add that into a 8-0 loss, multiply the fact that the fiance is a Preds fan, that one's not going to die anytime soon). Would I love to see a McCarty-Lemieux style beat down every game, why not. But remember what's the most important thing here. The only beef I have with some of these posters (and this is not directed at you) is they make it seem like they would give up our success for a team that fights more.

I'm all for a Dallas Drake type guy, someone who can fight, but WHO CAN ALSO CONTRIBUTE WHERE IT COUNTS. If all they do is run around and smash people's face in, they're not contributing to the result of the game. If you get a physical, defensive minded grinded, who can kill penalties as well as hold his own in fights, then fine.

Remember what wins games.

I'm not here preaching for the type of goon that can't play but alot of posters here seem like even the idea of a Drake type would hurt this team. And a balanced team wins games and right now I'm thinking the wings need to find a bit more balance to their team. As for getting called a bandwagoner earlier (not by you) I have alot of pride in this team and seeing them get their asses handed to them and hide behind refs in scrums is embarrassing, yes we're winning but why not win with that Drake type or Rupp type in the line up to bring back a bit of manliness to this team

[RedFX 48]

I'm not here preaching for the type of goon that can't play but alot of posters here seem like even the idea of a Drake type would hurt this team. And a balanced team wins games and right now I'm thinking the wings need to find a bit more balance to their team. As for getting called a bandwagoner earlier (not by you) I have alot of pride in this team and seeing them get their asses handed to them and hide behind refs in scrums is embarrassing, yes we're winning but why not win with that Drake type or Rupp type in the line up to bring back a bit of manliness to this team

That really is the crux of my entire argument. People on here are asking for a pure enforcer type guy to do nothing but fight. And no, While having one enforcer on the team probably won't start costing us games, look at it this way. Are people REALLY willing to take a roster spot away from a guy like Helm, Leino, or Abby in order for a guy to play 2 minutes a game and look for fights? Anyone who thinks that truly has their priorities mixed up.

Again, I want a player who makes an impact on the score. If he fights, that's a bonus, nothing more

[newfy 695]

That really is the crux of my entire argument. People on here are asking for a pure enforcer type guy to do nothing but fight. And no, While having one enforcer on the team probably won't start costing us games, look at it this way. Are people REALLY willing to take a roster spot away from a guy like Helm, Leino, or Abby in order for a guy to play 2 minutes a game and look for fights? Anyone who thinks that truly has their priorities mixed up.

Again, I want a player who makes an impact on the score. If he fights, that's a bonus, nothing more

I've been getting blamed alot for being one of those people who just want a fighter that plays 2 minutes because I say we need more toughness. I think with how skilled our top 6 are we don't need someone who scores. I would like to see more grit inserted into the lineup, not looking for fights but able to stickup for themselves and teammates. If we need to fill a roster spot for a low salary why not bring in a pure fighter but since that isn't the case yet I don't really care if we do that or not

[TheDetroitRedWings 286]

Anyone who objects to a goon must first realize and ponder something....

Kirk Maltby has a roster spot on this team! Kirk Maltby's skills are comparable to a goon. Can't score worth a damn and can't play a lick of defense. But there is one major differenc; he doesn't fight and has no physical game whatsoever. Bringing in a goon would at least be an upgrade to Maltby. At least we would finally have some protection for our susperstars.

[Buppy 1,720]

The team doesn't have half the heart it did in 97. Even if the wings did win the cup I would want more grit and heart in this lineup because you're never perfect and this is the wings weakness. The differece between the toughess being questioned now and the toughness being questioned then is that now we have barely any toughness, then we did. Maybe you need to loosen your lips off the shaft a little bit and realize toughness is a part of hockey. Has that shaft down your throat made you forget about Drake, Downey, and Mac playing the last time we won the cup?

Downey was on last year's team and played the same number of minutes in the playoffs (0) as he did in the Cup win. Trade part-time McCarty for Kopy/Abdelkader/Leino and Lilja for Ericcson and Hossa for Drake....you're not looking at a significant difference in toughness.

Toughness is not why we lost or won in either year. Suggesting the 07-08 team was tougher than last year's is silly. If you want to question the heart and toughness, then fine...but do it for the 07-08 team too because they were damn near identical. If you don't then it's just what I said...tough enough when they win, not tough enough when they don't = bandwagon.

And for the record, in my first post on this thread I said we should get someone who can fight, since we're not going to get anyone very good anyway so why not. I just think it's pretty weak to question the character of a team that followed up a Cup win with over 50 wins in the regular season and then 15 in the playoffs, and with maybe one less injury or a few more bounces in their direction or a few less mistakes would have made it 16. Seems to me a real fan would appreciate the Wings giving us another great season, even though the end was disappointing.

[Guest Shoreline]

Fighting alot doesn't mean the team couldn't fight. You're telling me that all the players on the 97 team that I meantioned weren't tough? They may have been lower on the fight major numbers then the other teams but they had so many tough players that when they needed to could step up for a teammate. AS it is right now we have one player that has shown fashes of having that capability in Ericcson.

As far as that rivalry goes, do you ever wonder why this team now doesn't really have any rivals outside of the Ducks... Its because without the tough players on the 97 team there would have been no rivalries. The ducks just pound us because they can.

As far as that no euro toughness spiel why don't you tell me what the point of having a guy like Kopecky who was supposed to be gritty for this team doing nothing on the 4th line is. If he's supposed to be gritty and play the body why not get someone who can actually do it? Why not replace Sammy on the 3rd line with a person who plays with the size he has and doesn't hide behind the linesman and throw gloved punches everywhere he can with a ref between him and the oppsoing player. Thats as classless as it gets.

Kopecky was supposed to be a big body who could throw his weight around, like a Todd Bertuzzi. And Bert ain't exactly a great fighter -- he's just big, and he's lost most of his meanness with that Steve Moore incident. If you've noticed I've, three times, talked about physical play vs. fighting, so I'm a bit confused as to why you are iterating that I don't think any team was tough by any means. Kopecky also got hurt, but he wasn't terrible. Didn't live up to expectations, but more than a sort of disappointment, just a popular Wing to pick on.

And you define them as stepping up as needed, but you just overlooked the fact that if they aren't fighting, they obviously aren't enforcing anything. Drake had 5 fights, which was actually his career high, so he wasn't really much of a fighter. Having fighters never EVER stopped teams from being dirty or engaging in scrums. It just means they get to sit in a box for 5 or more because a scrum happened, and reactionary fans who get off more on fighting than scoring/winning get to enjoy 15 seconds of sideshow.

And Wings players don't need to "hide behind linesmen", when they rarely ever get into scrums that aren't initiated by the other team, beyond antagonizing or baiting the opponent into a penalty like Homer or Mule do well.

Anyone who objects to a goon must first realize and ponder something....

Kirk Maltby has a roster spot on this team! Kirk Maltby's skills are comparable to a goon. Can't score worth a damn and can't play a lick of defense. But there is one major differenc; he doesn't fight and has no physical game whatsoever. Bringing in a goon would at least be an upgrade to Maltby. At least we would finally have some protection for our susperstars.

Wait, by the standards of some other goon nuts here, the 97 team was tough and could kick some ass at will, so how does that explain why the Avs still gooned it up with the Wings? Out the ******* window goes the notion that having a goon is a preventative measure against cheap s***. And so then you have why it's worth dressing a goon just to partake in after-the-whistle crap when it has nothing to do with W's? Maybe that's why Kenny and Babs don't, it makes no ******* sense. Even less sense is your strange tirade against Maltby. Unlike goon Aaron Downey, Maltby plays in the playoffs. Why? He plays on a checking line, since he hits opponents, actually can create scoring chances, and, here's a real surprise, plays on the PK! No wait, what am I talking about. It isn't like Maltby was given notoriety along with Drapes for being a PK stalwart, or selected to team Canada or anything. I bet it was guys like Parros and Boogaard who were getting roster spots and PK time since goons are so necessary. Malts may have gotten older and slower, but he's still good enough for Babs which is good enough for me.

It's hard to fathom where the flying crap you managed to ever come up with the nonsense you just posted.

Edited August 4, 2009 by Shoreline

[TheDetroitRedWings 286]

He plays on a checking line, since he hits opponents

Ummm....have you watched the Red Wings much during the past 7-8 seasons??? Maltby hasn't had a big hit in YEARS.

actually can create scoring chances

HAHAHAHAHA!!! Wow dude...it's official. Now I KNOW you haven't seen the Wings play in years. Try checking out Maltby's stats during the past decade. I think the sporting news put it best when they referred to him as "eerily unproductive for years." Maltby very rarely creates any sort of offense, whether it be setting them up or scoring them himself

and, here's a real surprise, plays on the PK!

And just when I was starting to ponder whether I was right about you witnessing Red Wings hockey this decade....You actually try to use the PK as an argument point. Funny I was going to bring up the PK because back in the late 90s when I started noticing Maltby's lack of offensive skills, I would cut him some slack because he was a fantastic penalty killer. More than a decade later and Maltby doesn't see even close to the same PK minutes he used to. This past season the main PK unit was Datsyuk and Zetterberg, and also Hossa quite a bit. This is not 1998.

No wait, what am I talking about.

Good question. I'm pretty sure even Kirk Maltby is shocked at your insanely over-flattering post.

It isn't like Maltby was given notoriety along with Drapes for being a PK stalwart

Huge difference between Draper and Maltby. Draper was always much more offensively talented. Hell, Draper even had a 26 goal season. Maltby has never been close to that. Not close. Draper could kill penalties, and he could score. Draper was fast too. And even to this day he contributes immensely at the faceoff circle.

Malts may have gotten older and slower

Yeah, a guy that couldn't even score 10 years ago is now older and slower. Awesome. I wonder if that has anything to do with his horrible drop off in being an effective penatly killer? Gee ya think? Hmmmm...

It's hard to fathom where the flying crap you managed to ever come up with the nonsense you just posted.

Pot calling the kettle black eh? Nonsense would be an understatement when referring to your post. Delusional comes to mind.

I'm not someone who thinks a goon is absolutely necessary. But come on, if worthless Maltby holds a roster spot, someone who can dish it out after taking it would be a refreshing sight to see for once.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

This thread needs more hugs from everybody. We can all get along. It is possible.

[Holmstrom96 347]

Ummm....have you watched the Red Wings much during the past 7-8 seasons??? Maltby hasn't had a big hit in YEARS.

HAHAHAHAHA!!! Wow dude...it's official. Now I KNOW you haven't seen the Wings play in years. Try checking out Maltby's stats during the past decade. I think the sporting news put it best when they referred to him as "eerily unproductive for years." Maltby very rarely creates any sort of offense, whether it be setting them up or scoring them himself

And just when I was starting to ponder whether I was right about you witnessing Red Wings hockey this decade....You actually try to use the PK as an argument point. Funny I was going to bring up the PK because back in the late 90s when I started noticing Maltby's lack of offensive skills, I would cut him some slack because he was a fantastic penalty killer. More than a decade later and Maltby doesn't see even close to the same PK minutes he used to. This past season the main PK unit was Datsyuk and Zetterberg, and also Hossa quite a bit. This is not 1998.

Good question. I'm pretty sure even Kirk Maltby is shocked at your insanely over-flattering post.

Huge difference between Draper and Maltby. Draper was always much more offensively talented. Hell, Draper even had a 26 goal season. Maltby has never been close to that. Not close. Draper could kill penalties, and he could score. Draper was fast too. And even to this day he contributes immensely at the faceoff circle.

Yeah, a guy that couldn't even score 10 years ago is now older and slower. Awesome. I wonder if that has anything to do with his horrible drop off in being an effective penatly killer? Gee ya think? Hmmmm...

Pot calling the kettle black eh? Nonsense would be an understatement when referring to your post. Delusional comes to mind.

I'm not someone who thinks a goon is absolutely necessary. But come on, if worthless Maltby holds a roster spot, someone who can dish it out after taking it would be a refreshing sight to see for once.

^This

[egroen 384]

And we all know Maltby is playing another year (and hopefully not more)... so watchoo gonna do?

A bottom line of Malby Draper Goon is well, awful.

Give it a rest for one more year and then you'll have much more of an argument.

[Guest micah]

A bottom line of Malby Draper Goon is well, awful.

A bottom line of 2009 Maltby, 2009 Draper, anybody available will be faily awful too.

I say we rotate a goon in and out with Maltby, and occasionally Draper if he needs a break. Demote Homer to the 4th line too, but he'd be in every night. The 4th line will suck, so what? We do not and will not have an effective 4th line, so why play them at all? Give 'em 4 shifts a game. Treat them like the specialists they are, put them in on the PP (homer), PK (Maltby), important faceoffs (Draper), or when you want someone's face broken or are getting beat in your own building in front of fans who deserve something to cheer for (goon), and be done with it. The wings won't be able to roll 4 lines like they used to - I don't think that that alone will make them win less games.

Detroit fans love goons, even though they might not get used in the playoffs, look how they're standing to look at this guy:

Edited August 4, 2009 by micah

[Guest Shoreline]

Ummm....have you watched the Red Wings much during the past 7-8 seasons??? Maltby hasn't had a big hit in YEARS.

HAHAHAHAHA!!! Wow dude...it's official. Now I KNOW you haven't seen the Wings play in years. Try checking out Maltby's stats during the past decade. I think the sporting news put it best when they referred to him as "eerily unproductive for years." Maltby very rarely creates any sort of offense, whether it be setting them up or scoring them himself

And just when I was starting to ponder whether I was right about you witnessing Red Wings hockey this decade....You actually try to use the PK as an argument point. Funny I was going to bring up the PK because back in the late 90s when I started noticing Maltby's lack of offensive skills, I would cut him some slack because he was a fantastic penalty killer. More than a decade later and Maltby doesn't see even close to the same PK minutes he used to. This past season the main PK unit was Datsyuk and Zetterberg, and also Hossa quite a bit. This is not 1998.

Good question. I'm pretty sure even Kirk Maltby is shocked at your insanely over-flattering post.

Huge difference between Draper and Maltby. Draper was always much more offensively talented. Hell, Draper even had a 26 goal season. Maltby has never been close to that. Not close. Draper could kill penalties, and he could score. Draper was fast too. And even to this day he contributes immensely at the faceoff circle.

Yeah, a guy that couldn't even score 10 years ago is now older and slower. Awesome. I wonder if that has anything to do with his horrible drop off in being an effective penatly killer? Gee ya think? Hmmmm...

Pot calling the kettle black eh? Nonsense would be an understatement when referring to your post. Delusional comes to mind.

I'm not someone who thinks a goon is absolutely necessary. But come on, if worthless Maltby holds a roster spot, someone who can dish it out after taking it would be a refreshing sight to see for once.

Maltby doesn't log as many PK minutes as he used to, like Draper, because, ding ding, he's older. No s***? You didn't refute a single thing I said, instead, you just make some stupid accusations that I've never seen the Red Wings pre.. some arbitrary year, over and over, and that's supposed to show you're an expert or give your argument any credence? Maltby was never a 30 goal scorer, this is not the role of a person who was on a "grind line" for most of his career, that was selected for team Canada, but you, Mr. Expert Who Judges How Long Everyone's Been A Fan, seems to think Maltby needs to be scoring a s***load of goals to be effective in his role, or better yet, fighting. He NEVER has. And you suggest I never watched the Wings pre... whatever year you wanna make up? f***, look in the mirror first. You obviously have not watched Malts throughout his career. At least your post is so chalk-full of nonsensical bulls*** that you can't be taken seriously except by your fellow Wings-need-fighters cult-like crew.

And F. Michael, since when do 14 year olds not watch hockey? And since when does not living in Michigan or a place that has snow/ice suddenly make a person not know anything about Kirk Maltby or the Red Wings?

Edited August 4, 2009 by Shoreline