Will Zetterberg Score 40 This Year?

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Filppula had 19 goals in 07-08 to Sammy's 11. Cleary had a whopping ONE MORE GOAL that season.

The last time Cleary scored a shootout goal was 06-07 when he scored 2.

Lets put Filppula in the AHL and see how he does. Case in point, who gives a f*** about the AHL.

Sammy scored 19 this year. Filppula scored 12. Sammy's proven himself to be a better scorer than Filppula. If that weren't true Babcock wouldn't use Sammy on the PP, regardless of his shot. Sammy's shown he can score goals. Filppula had one hot season playing on Datsyuk's wing while Zetterberg was injured. I'd love it if Filppula could score 19 goals again. The problem is that this time he won't have one of the best passers in the NHL dishing it to him.

Ignore Leino's superior play in the AHL, he's still outplayed Filppula in the NHL.

[Z and D for the C 712]

Filppula's role on the team was drastically reduced with the addition of Hossa. The 12 goals this season is the fluke, not the 19 two seasons ago.

Ignore Leino's superior play in the AHL, he's still outplayed Filppula in the NHL.

Oh, really? How many more points did Leino have over Filppula in the playoffs?

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Why does Filppula have to be the next Datsyuk in your mind? Nothing in the past 3 seasons has pointed to this metamorphosis. Scouting reports didn't peg Filppula as an elite offensive talent, he was pegged as a well rounded player who can do every thing well.

You can still be a Filppula fan and support him for what he is and not what you hope he might become. He is an excellent, well rounded guy who looks like he could become a good 2nd line centre for this team. Go check out the list of the top scoring forwards in the NHL last season. Look at the names of the guys who score 60+ points. Those guys are mostly lottery pick players, they're highly regarded offensive players. How many people outside of Detroit would call Filppula a highly regarded offensive talent? Not many. Because he isn't. He's a well rounded guy who projects as a 50-55pt player who anchors your 2nd line and plays on the 1st PK. WTF is wrong with that? Not everyone is Datsyuk or a Datsyuk in waiting. The Wings knew Datsyuk was potentially a special offensive talent when they drafted him. They just didn't know if he'd ever get big enough or skate like an NHL player. They didn't have evidence of his skill other than scouting reports-- he didn't tear up an international tournament or even get attention from other scouts.

Filppula was well scouted and drafted high. They knew he'd be a well rounded guy with some offensive upside, but nothing indicated he could be a 60+ point guy or he would've gone in the top 15 picks because he was already so strong in every other area.

Look, you can believe that Filppula's an elite offensive talent in waiting, but everything we've seen points out to that being a surprise if it happened, and certainly not something predictable.

Honestly, I think you're just underestimating the offensive talent it takes to score 60+ points.

[gcom007 1,465]

All I've got to say is it's going to be funny a year from now when everyone's s***ting on Flip and saying he's lazy and he sucks because he has another 30-40 point season. I'm 100% with Drake on this one. And way too many of y'all are too into "black and white" thinking. Like Drake said, I can appreciate a player for what he is without having to overhype him to the heavens. That's what annoys me because like I said, as soon as the guy doesn't live up to expectations every other thread is "so and so sucks and is lazy and Holland needs to dump him blah blah blah." It gets real old real quick. And you can say I'm consistent in my leveling of Flip, but, I won't have to change my tune in a year. Something tells me many of you will.

And Franzen. I'd like to point out once again that I called Franzen's breakout quite a few months in advance of it. See, the difference between Franzen and Flip is that Franzen has the hands, the skill, the finish and the work ethic to be a big time scoring threat. He's had this since day one. Franzen got a s*** deal because he got ran behind a play a few years back and it screwed with his head. It happens, but all he needed was some distance from the event and an opportunity. I said late in 2007 or maybe very early 2008 to look for Franzen to blow up when he gets his shot. I figured it'd be in the playoffs though when he'd start to shine but he got his opportunity bumped up by Holmstrom's injury. And what happened? He became quite possibly our most potent goal scorer. But again, he always had it in him because he always had the skill set, the sixth sense and the work ethic.

And it was cool, because once again, I was consistent and accurate with my analysis of the situation. Look it up. Search. Many of you rip on me for my analysis but the funny thing is, I'm rarely wrong in the end. I'm not trying to be arrogant, it just is what it is. Search it. Go ahead and rip at me all you want and make ignorant statements suggesting I hate Flip, but don't be surprised if in a year you come to realize I was right all along.

And make no mistake, I'm no genius, I just call it how it is and I skip the hype too many of you get off on.

[Z and D for the C 712]

I don't think Filppula will be the next Datsyuk. I'll be just as surprised as you if he ever gets anywhere near 80 points. But I do think you underestimate him and that he will put up at least one 67-70 point season (maybe not consistently though) at some point in his career.

And gcom's prediction of another 40 points season is even more ridiculous.

Edited August 22, 2009 by Z and D for the C

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Filppula's role on the team was drastically reduced with the addition of Hossa. The 12 goals this season is the fluke, not the 19 two seasons ago.

Filppula got 1 minute less PP time and lost 51 seconds of average time on ice. A minute. Drastically is a bit of an exaggeration

Oh, really? How many more points did Leino have over Filppula in the playoffs?

Oooo Fun!

Filppula's 1st playoff year:

18 games played, 5 pts, 12:12 ATOI (third line)

Leino's 1st playoff year:

7 games played, 2 pts, 8:43 ATOI (fourth line)

Take those 7 games up to 18 without accounting for Filppula's getting 50% more ice time and Leino scores 5.15 points.

Also, let's remember the 5 goal, 9 pt performance in his 13 game call up. That projects to 32 goals and 57 points, destroying anything Filppula's ever dreamed of. Oh and 95% of the time he played with Maltby and Draper.

This game is fun!

[eva unit zero 271]

If Zetterberg is allowed to play offense-first for a full season and the Wings have another line play as the shut-down line, then Z will definitely score 40 and could score 50. That's regardless of whether he's with Datsyuk.

If the Wings go with something like

Franzen/Zetterberg/Leino

Holmstrom/Datsyuk/Williams

Cleary/Filppula/Eaves

Helm/Draper/Bertuzzi

Maltby

Then Zetterberg will be playing with another scorer as well as a skilled playmaker to provide a defensively capable line that has quite a bit of offensive skill. Datsyuk is with Homer and Williams, providing one excellent playmaker and one decent playmaker, both with wicked shots, as well as a great screen, and good defense from this line. Yes, this lineup has Bertuzzi on the fourth line, but that is to allow Eaves to play on the 3rd line, which can serve primarily as a shutdown line or to rotate players and turn into a scoring line or an energy line if necessary. Eaves, Helm, and Bert can rotate for the desired lineup for the immediate purpose.

This lineup also would see Williams and Bert probably both posting similar numbers to last season if not better. Assuming of course that Z and D are split up.

Past that of course, there's the lines I've been posting, with slight modification

Dats/Zata/Homer

Franzen/Filppula/Cleary

Leino/Williams/Bertuzzi

Helm/Draper/Eaves

Maltby

In this case, it's still the Filppula/Cleary line which is serving as the shutdown line...however it is listed as the second line meaning it is probably getting more ice time and serving in more of a two-way role. Which makes sense, given the fact that Eaves has been swapped out for Franzen. Zata and Dats are together on an offense-first line, which means Zetterberg probably hits 50 goals and may even approach or clear 60 if both players stay healthy, regardless of whether Homer is the primary RW on the line. The third line obviously is going to be relied on for much more of an offensive role than in the other lineup, as Leino is the closest player to defensively able of the group, but all have offensive skill, with Williams bringing the most versatile offensive talents and the best speed.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

All I've got to say is it's going to be funny a year from now when everyone's s***ting on Flip and saying he's lazy and he sucks because he has another 30-40 point season. I'm 100% with Drake on this one. And way too many of y'all are too into "black and white" thinking. Like Drake said, I can appreciate a player for what he is without having to overhype him to the heavens. That's what annoys me because like I said, as soon as the guy doesn't live up to expectations every other thread is "so and so sucks and is lazy and Holland needs to dump him blah blah blah." It gets real old real quick. And you can say I'm consistent in my leveling of Flip, but, I won't have to change my tune in a year. Something tells me many of you will.

And Franzen. I'd like to point out once again that I called Franzen's breakout quite a few months in advance of it. See, the difference between Franzen and Flip is that Franzen has the hands, the skill, the finish and the work ethic to be a big time scoring threat. He's had this since day one. Franzen got a s*** deal because he got ran behind a play a few years back and it screwed with his head. It happens, but all he needed was some distance from the event and an opportunity. I said late in 2007 or maybe very early 2008 to look for Franzen to blow up when he gets his shot. I figured it'd be in the playoffs though when he'd start to shine but he got his opportunity bumped up by Holmstrom's injury. And what happened? He became quite possibly our most potent goal scorer. But again, he always had it in him because he always had the skill set, the sixth sense and the work ethic.

And it was cool, because once again, I was consistent and accurate with my analysis of the situation. Look it up. Search. Many of you rip on me for my analysis but the funny thing is, I'm rarely wrong in the end. I'm not trying to be arrogant, it just is what it is. Search it. Go ahead and rip at me all you want and make ignorant statements suggesting I hate Flip, but don't be surprised if in a year you come to realize I was right all along.

And make no mistake, I'm no genius, I just call it how it is and I skip the hype too many of you get off on.

I agree with you 100%, although I disagree on the part about Filppula having poor work ethic. He does sometimes when he's in a slump (and he certainly did through the first half of the 07-08 playoffs), but overall Filppula's got a fantastic work ethic. He's not a puck hound like Franzen or Zetterberg, but he's all about the forecheck and the skating.

And as far as Franzen goes, well he did have that amazing preseason in 07-08 where he was scoring at a retarded pace, but got injured so his year started out cold when he did finally get healthy.

[gcom007 1,465]

[edit] And how about this:

Datsyuk first 5 playoffs years:

60 games - 11g - 20a

Flip first 3 playoffs years:

63 games - 11g - 21a

Irrelevant considering Datsyuk was battling some pretty serious injuries in most of those years, not to mention the fact that the Wings in general were pretty lousy and wholly lacking in offense for the three 0 goal years after the 2002 Cup. How many goals did the entire team score in the 2003 playoff run (if you can even call it that)? 4 or 5? It was disgraceful and we were utterly stifled offensively. And Datsyuk's injuries in those years were more significant than reported. In 2006, Datsyuk was struggling to walk throughout the playoffs. I don't remember what was said in the papers, but it's something I know to be certain first hand.

Flip's 3 playoff years so far were long campaigns where he was healthy and on teams that were infinitely superior to the 2003, 2004 and 2006 Wings. Just look how many years it took Flip to get to 63 games...3 years. For Datsyuk to get to 60 games? 5 years. Those numbers are quite telling as well of how strong the team was for the various campaigns.

So, I mean, if you really think it's still a fair comparison, so be it, but I hope you see the issue with trying to show a correlation.

[gcom007 1,465]

I agree with you 100%, although I disagree on the part about Filppula having poor work ethic. He does sometimes when he's in a slump (and he certainly did through the first half of the 07-08 playoffs), but overall Filppula's got a fantastic work ethic. He's not a puck hound like Franzen or Zetterberg, but he's all about the forecheck and the skating.

And as far as Franzen goes, well he did have that amazing preseason in 07-08 where he was scoring at a retarded pace, but got injured so his year started out cold when he did finally get healthy.

I didn't say Flip has a poor work ethic. I didn't mention it in regards to Flip at all. I only said Franzen had all the tools the whole time. It wasn't like Franzen needed to really manifest anything out of thin air to be a complete player, he just had to get his head straight.

[eva unit zero 271]

And Franzen. I'd like to point out once again that I called Franzen's breakout quite a few months in advance of it. See, the difference between Franzen and Flip is that Franzen has the hands, the skill, the finish and the work ethic to be a big time scoring threat.

Oooh, do I get to gloat like this about Kopecky if/when he becomes a 20-goal scorer?

[gcom007 1,465]

And gcom's prediction of another 40 points season is even more ridiculous.

Like I said again and again and again when I got harassed for saying Osgood would be absolutely fine for the playoffs this last year, quote me on it in June.

edit: and unlike with Osgood where it would be to our benefit if I was right, I would love to be proven wrong on this matter. I wish nothing but the best for Flip and the Wings and would love for guys to be the best they can be, so I'd love to be wrong. But like I said, quote me on it in June. Unfortunately, I'll probably be right again on this one.

Edited August 22, 2009 by gcom007

[gcom007 1,465]

Oooh, do I get to gloat like this about Kopecky if/when he becomes a 20-goal scorer?

You probably should. I just brought it up because someone mentioned Franzen's "out of the blue" offensive explosion and I was trying to iterate the fact that I'm consistent and usually pretty accurate. And again, not because I'm a genius, I just don't ride hype trains and trust what I see and know of a guy. I'm not fickle and I don't throw a guy under the bus the second he slips up a bit. That's the real moral of the story with me.

[Z and D for the C 712]

Filppula got 1 minute less PP time and lost 51 seconds of average time on ice. A minute. Drastically is a bit of an exaggeration

2nd PP center to no regular PP time and scoring line center to checking line center is a drastic reduction.

Also, let's remember the 5 goal, 9 pt performance in his 13 game call up. That projects to 32 goals and 57 points, destroying anything Filppula's ever dreamed of. Oh and 95% of the time he played with Maltby and Draper.

Fabian Brunnström had a hattrick in his first game. That projects to 165 goals over 55 games. He got 17. Believe it or not, not everything in hockey is a linear relationship.

[gcom007 1,465]

2nd PP center to no regular PP time and scoring line center to checking line center is a drastic reduction.

Fabian Brunnström had a hattrick in his first game. That projects to 165 goals over 55 games. He got 17. Believe it or not, not everything in hockey is a linear relationship.

I'll say this: I think Leino's going to be a great player but I'm not near as expectant as some are for him to have a big first year. I think he'll have a typical rookie campaign and I'll be THRILLED if he nets 12-15 goals and hits 30 points. I'll be exuberantly happy.

That said, I also think he's more likely to hit 50 points this year than Flip.

Connect the dots.

[Z and D for the C 712]

Like I said again and again and again when I got harassed for saying Osgood would be absolutely fine for the playoffs this last year, quote me on it in June.

edit: and unlike with Osgood where it would be to our benefit if I was right, I would love to be proven wrong on this matter. I wish nothing but the best for Flip and the Wings and would love for guys to be the best they can be, so I'd love to be wrong. But like I said, quote me on it in June. Unfortunately, I'll probably be right again on this one.

Can you at least admit you see the logic in my prediction? I'm not saying Filppula is going to score 70 points next season or even 60. But being that Filppula scored 40 points playing on the third line with next to no PP time, it's really pretty freaking illogical to say that he is going to score the same amount with a scoring line role and dramatically increased PP time.

And I'm sure that that fact that he was right behind Zetterberg and Franzen in playoff scoring means nothing at all?

Edited August 22, 2009 by Z and D for the C

[Zetts 236]

Can you at least admit you see the logic in my prediction? I'm not saying Filppula is going to score 70 points next season or even 60. But being that Filppula scored 40 points playing on the third line with next to no PP time, it's really pretty freaking illogical to say that he is going to score the same amount with a scoring line role and dramatically increased PP time.

And I'm sure that that fact that he was right behind Zetterberg and Franzen in playoff scoring means nothing at all?

Well obviously it's because he was playing with the lights out playoff sniper that is Marian Hossa. Why would you even ask that?

[Buppy 1,720]

... Look at the names of the guys who score 60+ points. Those guys are ... highly regarded offensive players. ... Filppula ...isn't. He's a well rounded guy who projects as a 50-55pt player ...

Honestly, I think you're just underestimating the offensive talent it takes to score 60+ points.

Absolutely hilarious that there's such heated debate over a 5-10 point difference in assumed potential.

Around 90 forwards scored at a 60+ point pace last season. Another 15 - 20 were fairly close, close enough that a couple decent games could have put them over the edge. For an above average player on a good offensive team, 60 is not an amazing number...and a long, long way from 'elite'.

Check your straw man at the door, no one is suggesting Flip is a super star.

[eva unit zero 271]

2nd PP center to no regular PP time and scoring line center to checking line center is a drastic reduction.

Fabian Brunnström had a hattrick in his first game. That projects to 165 goals over 55 games. He got 17. Believe it or not, not everything in hockey is a linear relationship.

He wasn't the "checking line" center last year. He was the third line center but he played top six minutes and often played the Wing with Datsyuk or Zetterberg.

The checking line center was Zetterberg. His primary purpose all season was to shut down the opposing team's top lines. That's part of why I say he deserved the Selke so much more than Datsyuk; because Z was the one who was doing all the major defensive work for the Wings. Flip was playing on a line which had more of an offensive role at even strength most of the time, hence his even strength scoring numbers.

Flip probably will serve as the checking line this season. However, if Dats and Z are put back together, he'll also likely play with Franzen. Flip will also probably play on the PP. So look for an increase in points despite his shift from primarily playing offense to defense at even strength.

[gcom007 1,465]

Can you at least admit you see the logic in my prediction? I'm not saying Filppula is going to score 70 points next season or even 60. But being that Filppula scored 40 points playing on the third line with next to no PP time, it's really pretty freaking illogical to say that he is going to score the same amount with a scoring line role and dramatically increased PP time?

And I'm sure that that fact that he was right behind Zetterberg and Franzen in playoff scoring means nothing at all?

I can understand why one would think that, but I still think it's missing some key points. And furthermore, I don't think he'll see a major increase in power play time at all. Hell, depending on how some of these new people end up doing, he could see a decrease as time goes on. People have posted broken down stats of what Flip's done with his power play time and it's not much especially when compared to the guys that get time ahead of him. With as much as Babcock seems to like Flip, do you really think he would hold him back from the power play as much as he has if not for a reason? That reason being that Flip just isn't exactly an offensive wonder-child and is most certainly not much of a goal scorer.

Riding off that, I don't think we'll see a dramatic increase in his goal scoring. Even in the playoffs when everyone wanted to hype up his performance because of his point total, people tend to forget that he only netted 3 goals in that time. Again, he's just not a goal scorer for so many reasons. He doesn't create plays out of thin air like a goal scorer and subsequently doesn't do a great job of finishing them nor the plays that fall right in front of him. He doesn't have a great shot. He doesn't have great hands. Again, someone brought up the shootout thing...it's telling of their faith in his hands...galactic mistake?! I think not.

And while I won't say that Flips playoff point total means nothing, I'm not willing to say it means "something" either. At the end of the day for me, it's not a matter of numbers. I do believe the numbers more often than not reflect a pretty accurate picture but they never tell the whole story. The crux of the matter for me simply comes down to the skill set. Flip has an average skill set. I'm not hating, but he simply doesn't have it. As many have said numerous times, you can dig up scouting reports on the guy and they're not going to read much differently than the summarizing statement of "he has an average skill set." Like I said, with guys like Z, Dats and Franzen, it was very obvious to me that these guys had something special even when they weren't putting up the numbers to support it yet. It was evident early on. Flip has never given me the same impression and I've learned to trust my ability to judge guys. I know the game pretty well and more often than not, so long as I don't get caught up in positive or negative hype, my instincts tend to yield pretty accurate assessments.

And lastly, while I'm pretty optimistic and excited about this team this year, I don't think we're going to be as strong as the last few years, especially offensively. Our older guys have just gotten older and will likely be less effective. We're going to have a few rookies who could easily not contribute much offense this year as you know, that happens and is acceptable in one's rookie year. Our replacements for our more potent goal scorers are all gambles. They could do well, they could do bad. That'll be really interesting to watch. Again, I'm excited about the season, but there's a lot of question marks and there's no debate over the fact that we're not going to be as strong offensively.

So considering the majority of Flips points come from assists, I am not convinced that he'll be able to match let alone exceed last years production even with more minutes considering he's not going to have as strong of a supporting cast around him.

And listen, here's the reality as ugly as it is for even me to admit: if Jason Williams comes in and plays as well as he's capable of playing, Flip's going to be hard-pressed to hold onto his second line centering spot. In 2006, Williams put up 58 points for us, 2 years ago in 43 games he put up 36 points for the Blackhawks and last year with the Thrashers and Blackhawks he put up 47 points. The guy's a loose cannon and inconsistent, and unlike how I feel about Flip, I really don't like Williams much, but if the guy comes in and plays his ass off, he's likely to get Flips 2nd line spot at center. It pains me to write this paragraph but again, it is what it is. If Williams had half a brain and the heart of Draper, he'd be a 60+ point guy easy because he's got the skills. Flip's got good heart and a pretty good head on his shoulders, but he just doesn't have the skill set. I think he'll be lucky to hit 50 points for one or two seasons and I wouldn't be shocked if he doesn't even do that.

In any event, this is going to be a great year. There's a lot more to watch for this year than ever before. Lots of unknowns and lots of guys who will be playing for their futures. It'll be good and hopefully bring out the best in everyone.

[gcom007 1,465]

Absolutely hilarious that there's such heated debate over a 5-10 point difference in assumed potential.

Around 90 forwards scored at a 60+ point pace last season. Another 15 - 20 were fairly close, close enough that a couple decent games could have put them over the edge. For an above average player on a good offensive team, 60 is not an amazing number...and a long, long way from 'elite'.

Check your straw man at the door, no one is suggesting Flip is a super star.

Actually, many have suggested it in the last year or so and it's picked up quite a bit this summer here and there. Some people like Drake and I might've scared some of these people calling him the next Datsyuk off a bit, but believe me, ultra-hyped expectations have been suggested numerous times and loosely implied more than that.

[Buppy 1,720]

Irrelevant considering Datsyuk was battling some pretty serious injuries in most of those years, not to mention the fact that the Wings in general were pretty lousy and wholly lacking in offense for the three 0 goal years after the 2002 Cup. How many goals did the entire team score in the 2003 playoff run (if you can even call it that)? 4 or 5? It was disgraceful and we were utterly stifled offensively. And Datsyuk's injuries in those years were more significant than reported. In 2006, Datsyuk was struggling to walk throughout the playoffs. I don't remember what was said in the papers, but it's something I know to be certain first hand.

Flip's 3 playoff years so far were long campaigns where he was healthy and on teams that were infinitely superior to the 2003, 2004 and 2006 Wings. Just look how many years it took Flip to get to 63 games...3 years. For Datsyuk to get to 60 games? 5 years. Those numbers are quite telling as well of how strong the team was for the various campaigns.

So, I mean, if you really think it's still a fair comparison, so be it, but I hope you see the issue with trying to show a correlation.

It's as relevant as comparing the first three regular seasons.

And I would hardly call the Wings of the last 3 years 'infinitely' superior to the teams in Datsyuk's first 5 years. Wings finished the regular season in the top 3 every year, 2 long playoff runs with one Cup in Pav's first 5 years. In 4 of those 5 years, they were either 1st or second in goals for in the regular season. The one year they weren't was Pav's best, and Flip's first. Also, in each of Pav's first 4 years they scored more than they did in either of Flip's first two. Fact is, all those teams were highly talented on offense and legit Cup contenders, and a big part of the reason they didn't have longer playoff runs in some of those years was because of Pavel getting shut down.

More to the point though, since I know and already said Flip isn't Datsyuk, is that stats often don't tell the whole story. I could have also pointed out that this past playoff, Flip, in a lesser role, was out-producing Pav even before his injury.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

I didn't say Flip has a poor work ethic. I didn't mention it in regards to Flip at all. I only said Franzen had all the tools the whole time. It wasn't like Franzen needed to really manifest anything out of thin air to be a complete player, he just had to get his head straight.

Oh ok. I thought you were implying that Filppula didn't have it. My bad.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

2nd PP center to no regular PP time and scoring line center to checking line center is a drastic reduction.

Filppula spent time playing on the 2nd line both seasons. If he didn't his even strength time wouldn't be in the top six forwards, simple as that. Filppula only fell down to the 2nd line when he couldn't perform offensively. That's why he started the 07-08 season on the 2nd line and lost it quickly. If Filppula could've played 50-60 point hockey Babcock would've kept Dats and Zetterberg together. Is Hossa a centre? No. If Filppula could've put consistent offensive numbers up as a centre he would've stayed on the 2nd line, because he was certainly given a lot of opportunities. Filppula couldn't stick around as the 2nd line centre for the same reason he couldn't do it the year before-- he isn't a consistent offensive threat.

And he's never been a PP regular. His 1:47 PP time in 07-08 was representative of someone who played some time on the 2nd PP, but certainly wasn't on there as the key centre. Know why? He's never been among the top six offensive threats on the team. Never.

He lost 1 minute of PP time man. One minute. Not drastic.

Fabian Brunnström had a hattrick in his first game. That projects to 165 goals over 55 games. He got 17. Believe it or not, not everything in hockey is a linear relationship.

There's a WORLD of difference between taking a 13 game sample and taking a 1 game sample. Moreover, 13 games is a decent sample size when you're talking about an incoming rookie AND you're talking about someone you've already given data for based on two entire seasons previous (AHL, Finnish Elite League).

Also note that I clearly indicated I was projecting the average over an 82 game season, so I in no way misrepresented the facts at hand. The fact remains that that 13 game stint is as relevant a sample as Filppula's most recent playoff run.

[gcom007 1,465]

It's as relevant as comparing the first three regular seasons.

And I would hardly call the Wings of the last 3 years 'infinitely' superior to the teams in Datsyuk's first 5 years. Wings finished the regular season in the top 3 every year, 2 long playoff runs with one Cup in Pav's first 5 years. In 4 of those 5 years, they were either 1st or second in goals for in the regular season. The one year they weren't was Pav's best, and Flip's first. Also, in each of Pav's first 4 years they scored more than they did in either of Flip's first two. Fact is, all those teams were highly talented on offense and legit Cup contenders, and a big part of the reason they didn't have longer playoff runs in some of those years was because of Pavel getting shut down.

More to the point though, since I know and already said Flip isn't Datsyuk, is that stats often don't tell the whole story. I could have also pointed out that this past playoff, Flip, in a lesser role, was out-producing Pav even before his injury.

You sure of that? I'm not so sure you're sure and I'm not so sure you're sure of all the injuries and how long they may have been bugging Datsyuk. The guy doesn't talk much about it and paints a much rosier picture of things more often than not when he does. You could argue about Datsyuk's health issues being of concern when it matters and I think it's something worth discussing at this point, but I don't think Flip really fits into that debate nor does he fit into comparisons of Datsyuks playoff performances.

And we always win a lot of regular season games. Like I said though, who on the Wings wasn't getting shut down??? No one was scoring. We hit hot goalies and got beat by teams that went on to play for the Stanley Cup. In 2002, Dats was part of a long run as a rookie; he put up 3 goals and 3 assists. Not so bad for a rookie on the most loaded team we've ever had. In that sense, I think it's fair to compare Flip and Dats rookie playoff seasons. They're rookies, long runs, minimal minutes and roles, descent numbers for rookies. But years 2 and 3, all bets are off. Again, it's just not fair to hold an injured Datsyuk up against Flip in an argument.

So why is it fair to compare Flip and Dats first 3 regular seasons? Because there's no room for doubting what the numbers say. Datsyuk played less games due to injury but still progressed far faster than Flip proportionally to each players individual season point totals and on top of that, Datsyuk was building off a rookie season where he put up about as many points as the average of Flips 2nd and 3rd season. The writings on the wall there because even talking about variables like injury, Flip played over 20 games more than Dats in his first 3 years and still didn't come close to matching Datsyuks point production and progression season to season.

That's different than a healthy Flip (playing on a Cup winning team that went to game 6 and a team that went to game 7 of the finals) outperforming an injured Datsyuk on teams that got booted (and humiliated in 2003...) in the first and second round.