Will Zetterberg Score 40 This Year?

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

If he stays healthy, it's not hard to picture him getting 40 plus.

[Electrophile 3,554]

Sure, why not.

[servo 15]

If he stays healthy I don't think its out of the question.

[FunkedUp 29]

Z nets 50 this year, and Pav breaks the 100 point mark...

[hockey23 79]

I can't see a 50% increase in his output in just one year. That's miraculous.

Franzen did it. 38 pts in 07-08 and 59 in 08-09. That's a 55% increase. Filppula would have to have a breakout year, but it's not like it's rare. Datsyuk did it, Zetterberg nearly doubled his production after the lockout, Cleary did it, Williams did it...now it's Filppula's turn.

[dat's sick 1,002]

Z was targeting 50 goals last season. I think he really wants to rebound from a disappointing season for him individually and reach that mark.

I'm definitely expecting 40+ goals from him. Franzen should also be able to get around 40, but I think he's a bit too inconsistant to get much more than that.

[gcom007 1,465]

He could. We'll see how the back and wrist do though. He's got the skill to put up 40-50 goals every year if he plays 75-80 games without pain. But it'll be interesting to see how he holds up as he gets older. Hopefully the injuries won't be an issue, but it's definitely a question mark for me still. I don't doubt that he'll be an invaluable player though even if he's just putting up 25 goals. He's an Yzerman in the post-knee injury/Scotty Bowman era type of player. He contributes everywhere. While we need goals to win games, we don't need our superstars to put up 40+ to be successful and our superstars don't have to put up 40+ to be superstars. It's a good situation any way it shakes down.

[gcom007 1,465]

It's true. Fil is a proto-Datsyuk. He was showing some real progress in the playoffs, and I think if he's hooked to Franzen, they're both going to have phenomenal seasons.

My bold predictions...

Zetterberg- 41/40/81

Datsyuk- 35/68/103 (finally!)

Franzen- 40/31/71

Filppula- 22/38/60

Z heats up, I can see 50. First since Fedorov in '94, I think?

Flip has absolutely nothing on Datsyuk. Datsyuk is so far ahead of Flip in every regard in terms of skill and pure hockey sense that it's absurd that people continue to mention them in the same sentence. I'm not always a numbers guy, but these numbers are pretty telling...

Pavel Datsyuk first 3 seasons:

2001/02 - 70 GP - 11g - 24a - 35 points

2002/03 - 64 GP - 12g - 39a - 51 points

2003/04 - 75 GP - 30g - 38a - 68 points

Valtteri Filppula's first 3 seasons:

2006/07 - 73 GP - 10g - 7a - 17 points

2007/08 - 78 GP - 19g - 17a - 36 points

2008/09 - 80 GP - 12g - 28a - 40 points

As we all know, Datsyuk took it up a level and remained there in year 4, but even so, in his rookie campaign playing in only 70 games he put up 35 points which is proportionally a hair behind Flip's 3rd year point total of 40. His goals have been incredibly streaky at best because at the end of the day he just doesn't have great hands and he doesn't know how to finish plays like the Datsyuks, Zetterberg's, Hossa's and Franzen's. He put up a lot of assists last year because we had an abundance of goal scorers. We had 4 star/superstar goal scorers who put up 30+ goals including Hossa at 40, and both Hossa and Franzen missed around 10 games give or take a few I believe. Simply put, there's just no comparison between he and Datsyuk. While Flips point totals aren't outstanding anyways, they looked better than they probably should have last year primarily because we were just a goal-scoring force to be reckoned with. No one had our firepower and we smoked the rest of the league in goals scored.

Now, I'm not saying Flip sucks. I like Flip. He's a fine player in many regards. But his skill set is average at best. People get hyped up over a few random plays that he's done that are absolutely beautiful plays, but let's not forget, Darren McCarty scored one of the most beautiful and memorable goals in Red Wings history and that guy is certainly not considered an offensive star let alone a superstar like Datsyuk. People need to learn real quick to accept Flip for what he is: an average NHL player. He'll never be a first line guy and I highly doubt he'll hit more than 50 points in his career. I expect him to maintain an average of 35-40 points which is really fine for his role. But all this talk about him becoming a force like Datsyuk is just wishful thinking. He simply doesn't have the skill or the fire. He never has and you don't just manifest that out of nowhere. You have it or you don't. He doesn't. Flashes of brilliance once in a blue moon prove absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things.

P.S. If Flip puts up similar numbers to what he's done the last couple of years, I would not be shocked to see him dealt at the deadline. While he's certainly not a ripoff at $3 million a year scoring 40 points, in the cap world and in Wings system in particular, he will be considered overpaid. If they don't see him showing significant progress and we have any sort of holes to fill on offense, I would not be shocked if they cut their losses to bring in a guy to make a run for the Cup with and to free up cap space for free agency. It's not that anyone would like it, but in the cap world, he is the most likely guy to be moved if we need to do something significant because he'll bring the best return and the most cap relief. I'm not saying it's a lock to happen, but don't be shocked if it does.

Edited August 21, 2009 by gcom007

[Zetts 236]

Flip has absolutely nothing on Datsyuk. Datsyuk is so far ahead of Flip in every regard in terms of skill and pure hockey sense that it's absurd that people continue to mention them in the same sentence. I'm not always a numbers guy, but these numbers are pretty telling...

Pavel Datsyuk first 3 seasons:

2001/02 - 70 GP - 11g - 24a - 35 points

2002/03 - 64 GP - 12g - 39a - 51 points

2003/04 - 75 GP - 30g - 38a - 68 points

Valtteri Filppula's first 3 seasons:

2006/07 - 73 GP - 10g - 7a - 17 points

2007/08 - 78 GP - 19g - 17a - 36 points

2008/09 - 80 GP - 12g - 28a - 40 points

He'll never be a first line guy and I highly doubt he'll hit more than 50 points in his career. I expect him to maintain an average of 35-40 points which is really fine for his role.

I completely agree with your post except for the bold part. He got 40 points playing a lot of 3rd line minutes and with little pp time. His point totals have been increasing every year, and there really isn't a great reason to expect that to entirely stop or even reverse at this point.

Personally, for his career, I expect him to have several years around 50-55 points, with maybe a career year being low to mid 60s.

He's brutal at finishing himself, but put him with some good players and he'll put up some points.

Edited August 21, 2009 by Zetts

[under_par_00 45]

Flip has absolutely nothing on Datsyuk. Datsyuk is so far ahead of Flip in every regard in terms of skill and pure hockey sense that it's absurd that people continue to mention them in the same sentence. I'm not always a numbers guy, but these numbers are pretty telling...

Pavel Datsyuk first 3 seasons:

2001/02 - 70 GP - 11g - 24a - 35 points

2002/03 - 64 GP - 12g - 39a - 51 points

2003/04 - 75 GP - 30g - 38a - 68 points

Valtteri Filppula's first 3 seasons:

2006/07 - 73 GP - 10g - 7a - 17 points

2007/08 - 78 GP - 19g - 17a - 36 points

2008/09 - 80 GP - 12g - 28a - 40 points

As we all know, Datsyuk took it up a level and remained there in year 4, but even so, in his rookie campaign playing in only 70 games he put up 35 points which is proportionally a hair behind Flip's 3rd year point total of 40. His goals have been incredibly streaky at best because at the end of the day he just doesn't have great hands and he doesn't know how to finish plays like the Datsyuks, Zetterberg's, Hossa's and Franzen's. He put up a lot of assists last year because we had an abundance of goal scorers. We had 4 star/superstar goal scorers who put up 30+ goals including Hossa at 40, and both Hossa and Franzen missed around 10 games give or take a few I believe. Simply put, there's just no comparison between he and Datsyuk. While Flips point totals aren't outstanding anyways, they looked better than they probably should have last year primarily because we were just a goal-scoring force to be reckoned with. No one had our firepower and we smoked the rest of the league in goals scored.

Now, I'm not saying Flip sucks. I like Flip. He's a fine player in many regards. But his skill set is average at best. People get hyped up over a few random plays that he's done that are absolutely beautiful plays, but let's not forget, Darren McCarty scored one of the most beautiful and memorable goals in Red Wings history and that guy is certainly not considered an offensive star let alone a superstar like Datsyuk. People need to learn real quick to accept Flip for what he is: an average NHL player. He'll never be a first line guy and I highly doubt he'll hit more than 50 points in his career. I expect him to maintain an average of 35-40 points which is really fine for his role. But all this talk about him becoming a force like Datsyuk is just wishful thinking. He simply doesn't have the skill or the fire. He never has and you don't just manifest that out of nowhere. You have it or you don't. He doesn't. Flashes of brilliance once in a blue moon prove absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things.

P.S. If Flip puts up similar numbers to what he's done the last couple of years, I would not be shocked to see him dealt at the deadline. While he's certainly not a ripoff at $3 million a year scoring 40 points, in the cap world and in Wings system in particular, he will be considered overpaid. If they don't see him showing significant progress and we have any sort of holes to fill on offense, I would not be shocked if they cut their losses to bring in a guy to make a run for the Cup with and to free up cap space for free agency. It's not that anyone would like it, but in the cap world, he is the most likely guy to be moved if we need to do something significant because he'll bring the best return and the most cap relief. I'm not saying it's a lock to happen, but don't be shocked if it does.

Do you even watch Filppula play? No one said Fil has anything on Datsyuk, they said that he is a proto-Datsyuk. Essentially a poor mans Datsyuk (but good thing he is still young and improving right?).

They are similar players, Fil likes to hang onto the puck and make a few nifty moves before he finds a hole and dishes it out to someone. He has great puck control and good speed (remind you of anyone?). Filppula is always being encouraged to shoot the puck more, just like Datsyuk was when he was younger. As long as Filppula gets more ice time (which he will), he is going to continue to improve. I am excited to see him play on the 2nd line this year with that goal scoring beast Franzen. I'm hoping for 35+ assists from Fil this year. Without a doubt he is going to have a career year this year, the only question is how high can he go? (no injuries please)

[Icesurfer 75]

Someone has to score....LOL.... and your best players have to be your best players... especially this year. You can count on Leino for 25 goals though...

[Zetts 236]

Franzen did it. 38 pts in 07-08 and 59 in 08-09. That's a 55% increase. Filppula would have to have a breakout year, but it's not like it's rare. Datsyuk did it, Zetterberg nearly doubled his production after the lockout, Cleary did it, Williams did it...now it's Filppula's turn.

Exactly, it's not far fetched. If the numbers gcom provided are accurate, then Filppula already had a 112% increase too when he went from 17 points to 36. Different set of circumstances obviously, but it IS possible.

[Buppy 1,720]

Flip has absolutely nothing on Datsyuk. Datsyuk is so far ahead of Flip in every regard in terms of skill and pure hockey sense that it's absurd that people continue to mention them in the same sentence. I'm not always a numbers guy, but these numbers are pretty telling...

Pavel Datsyuk first 3 seasons:

2001/02 - 70 GP - 11g - 24a - 35 points

2002/03 - 64 GP - 12g - 39a - 51 points

2003/04 - 75 GP - 30g - 38a - 68 points

Valtteri Filppula's first 3 seasons:

2006/07 - 73 GP - 10g - 7a - 17 points

2007/08 - 78 GP - 19g - 17a - 36 points

2008/09 - 80 GP - 12g - 28a - 40 points

... He put up a lot of assists last year because we had an abundance of goal scorers. We had 4 star/superstar goal scorers who put up 30+ goals including Hossa at 40, and both Hossa and Franzen missed around 10 games give or take a few I believe. Simply put, there's just no comparison between he and Datsyuk. While Flips point totals aren't outstanding anyways, they looked better than they probably should have last year primarily because we were just a goal-scoring force to be reckoned with. No one had our firepower and we smoked the rest of the league in goals scored.

Now, I'm not saying Flip sucks. I like Flip. He's a fine player in many regards. But his skill set is average at best. ... People need to learn real quick to accept Flip for what he is: an average NHL player. He'll never be a first line guy and I highly doubt he'll hit more than 50 points in his career. I expect him to maintain an average of 35-40 points which is really fine for his role. But all this talk about him becoming a force like Datsyuk is just wishful thinking. He simply doesn't have the skill or the fire. He never has and you don't just manifest that out of nowhere. You have it or you don't. He doesn't. Flashes of brilliance once in a blue moon prove absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things.

...

While I agree that Flip is no Datsyuk, there's a tremendous gap between '35-40' points and Pav. I think you're selling Flip quite a bit short. I, like Babs and Kenny, think Flip can be a consistent 60+ point player, and still be very good defensively.

And remember, Pav came in to a much better situation. You say Flip's stats were inflated because of the team (ignoring the fact that he didn't play much with the top lines), so you also have to acknowledge that Pav pretty much won the lottery when the Wings picked him up. How many young centers get to play on a team full of future Hall of Famers, with one of the best snipers in the history of the game (even if over the hill) on their wing?

Flip's not a great goal scorer, but he could net 20-25 a year...it's not 2001 any more, the game has opened up quite a bit. He's an excellent, if not particularly fast, skater; has decent size; handles the puck very well; plays a great transition game; finds open shooters...

He just needs to play with more confidence, shoot more, use his size more/play harder around the net, and try more often to make plays instead of passes (by that I mean less of the safe but unproductive passes back to the blue line and more 'jam the puck down low and try to make something happen'). Developing some chemistry with a winger as Pav did with Hank would be a huge help.

Again, he's not Pav, but I think it's a bit pessimistic to think a 25 year old who spent most of the year on the third line has plateaud.

[edit] And how about this:

Datsyuk first 5 playoffs years:

60 games - 11g - 20a

Flip first 3 playoffs years:

63 games - 11g - 21a

Edited August 21, 2009 by Buppy

[Peleshob 0]

I think that as long as he's healthy and on a line with Datsyuk he should hit the 40 goal mark for sure. I'd really like to see a 90 point season out of Z, that'd make me happy.

As far as Filppula goes, I don't think it's a big stretch to say that he can hit 50+ points. If he's playing as the 2nd line center all season long and has Franzen/Bertuzzi on his wings he should be able to put up a respectable season. He'll also get time on the PP this year, which is only going to help his point totals. As some others have said, break-out years happen all the time and Flip looks poised to have his.

[Z and D for the C 712]

gcom doesn't like Filppula, just ignore him.

[Z and D for the C 712]

He got 40 points playing a lot of 3rd line minutes and with little pp time. His point totals have been increasing every year, and there really isn't a great reason to expect that to entirely stop or even reverse at this point.

Personally, for his career, I expect him to have several years around 50-55 points, with maybe a career year being low to mid 60s.

Why bring logic and fact into this? Flip has s***ty hands, deal with it.

Edited August 22, 2009 by Z and D for the C

[cjm502 165]

Why bring logic and fact into this? Flip has s***ty hands, deal with it.

s***ty hands? Filp is one of our better players when it comes to puck handling if im not mistaken.

[Z and D for the C 712]

Haven't you read gcom's posts? You're mistaken.

[Guest ZetterbergFourty]

I think both Zetterberg and Franzen are certainly capable of putting up big numbers. With the loss of scoring from Sammy, Hossa and Hudler, they'll need to take it up a notch. I think Zetts is a better bet to hit 40 goals, but Franzen will no doubt be right in there behind him.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Theres so many factors pointing to fil having a real break out season. And theres really nothing that says hes not capable of 60 points, except for his confidence issues... But after reading your countless posts disregarding filppula as anything more than an over-paid grand rapid griffin., theres no real point in ruining another topic..

I say he's a guy with a career potential to be an excellent 2nd line centre who can score 50pts, play on the PK and win tons of faceoffs. Just because I'm not diluted enough to pretend his offensive skill is elite (it's not), apparently I'm "disregarding filppula s anything more than an over-paid grand rapid griffin". Because there's no way I can value a player for who he is and not for a pipe dream that every prospect is a potential Datsyuk and we're all special little snowflakes.

There were less than 30 centres in the NHL who scored 60pts last year. Apparently you think Filppula projects as a guy who can be a first line centre (since there are exactly 30 teams and less than 30 centres who can score 60 pts). I guess I'm different from you because I can appreciate players who are valuable without being scoring superstars.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

s***ty hands? Filp is one of our better players when it comes to puck handling if im not mistaken.

You're most definitely mistaken.

The following forwards from the 2008-2009 Detroit Red Wings have better hands than Filppula:

1. Pavel Datsyuk

2. Henrik Zetterberg

3. Marian Hossa

4. Jiri Hudler

5. Johan Franzen

6. Daniel Cleary

7. Ville Leino

8. Mikeal Samuelsson (arguably... his shot is superior, as are his offensive instincts, but his passing is inferior)

So, out of a 13 man group of forwards 8 had better hands than Filppula.

Filppula's got tons of hockey talent, but he doesn't have amazing hands. He's got above average hands for an NHL player, but nothing close to elite hands.

[Z and D for the C 712]

LOL Cleary.

You are so delusional. Me and others may be overrating him, but that doesn't mean you're not underrating him. Filppula has better "hands" (better everything) than Cleary and Samuelsson, and it could be a toss up between him and Leino.

Edited August 22, 2009 by Z and D for the C

[VM1138 1,921]

With Z and Dats playing together for most of the year (hopefully), there's no doubt they're both going to have career years in points.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

LOL Cleary.

You are so delusional. Me and others may be overrating him, but that doesn't mean you're not underrating him. Filpulla has better "hands" (better everything) than Cleary and Samuelsson, and it could be a toss up between him and Leino.

O RLY?

Who has more goals IN ANY SEASON? Cleary, Samuelsson or Filppula? Shootout goals?

Who gets picked for the shootout first-- Cleary or Filppula? (Hint: Filppula's never scored in the shootout and only been picked twice in his career- and that was back in 06-07)

And Leino? Finnish Elite League MVP and 2nd in scoring. Lead the AHL in scoring/points through the first round of the playoffs. Scored 5 goals and 9 pts in his first 13 NHL games. Scored at a point per game pace through the preseason. Leino is an offensive talent first and everything else second. Filppula's an everything else talent first and scoring second.

[Z and D for the C 712]

Filppula had 19 goals in 07-08 to Sammy's 11. Cleary had a whopping ONE MORE GOAL that season.

The last time Cleary scored a shootout goal was 06-07 when he scored 2.

Lets put Filppula in the AHL and see how he does. Case in point, who gives a f*** about the AHL.