Boogaard and Datsyuk?

[Heaton 1]

Detroit 5-0 up in the 3rd with 10 minutes to go. Then there is every chance one of those guys will be out on the ice at the same time as Dats.

Times like that, the powerplay doesnt work as en enforcer. (Not making this an enforcer debate, anyone but Heaton who replies to this I'll ignore)

Anytime a super heavyweight goes after a skill guy is a very rare occurrence. You don't see Laraque or a Boogaard taking runs at undeserving players very often at all.

Now if we're talking about Carcillo or Lappy or May or Hinote etc... then I think the point would make more sense.

Regardless, Datsyuk doesn't get caught in positions to get hit by very many people so I'm not worried about any of the smart players on the Wings.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Ding ding ding!

Pavel's no dummy. Ironically, also invited to the summer camp were, Georges Laraque, Eric Godard, Mitch Fritz, and Cam Janssen.

Skacore, we did too get protection for Pavel! We signed Eaves, duhhhh....

Tonight against Philly may be a rough day for the Wings, keep their heads up.

OH NOEZ!!!!!!!

[b.shanafan14 733]

From THN 9. Sept:

Derek Boogaard and Pavel Datsyuk are two intimidating players, but in very different ways.

This summer, Boogaard was invited to not only take part in Datsyuk's hockey school in Russia, but also train with the gifted Red Wing.

"Anytime you get to skate or even just be around a player of that caliber, you can't pass that up," Boogaard said. " You should have seen how he treated the kids. I was expecting a cockier guy, but Pav's a really good guy."

Most of the kids didn't know who Boogaard was.

"Once they started pulling up the YouTube clips, they got more intimidated," Boogaard laughed. "I can't wait to go back next summer.

-So is Pav getting some tips from Boogey, you know, to toughen up those soft Euro hands?

Actually I bring this up to re-enforce that fact that the Lady Byng can be something respected by everyone. Boogaard has his place in the league and everyone knows what that is, yet Pav seeks him oot to invite him to his personal camp which seems the anti-thesis of his style.

Can't find this on THN.com, link?

[egroen 384]

It upsets me to see the generous Viscountess Byng of Vimy being disrespected.

But in all seriousness, the gal was a huge hockey fan -- what's not to like? And she dedicated the trophy to reward gentlemanly play and sportsmanship -- and those in it for the love of the game. For a long time, the Lady Byng was actually considered the "Hart Runner-up" and held much more prestige than it does today, where it now comes with a certain stigma.

That is unfortunate.

Consider some of the players that have won it:

Red Wings

Datsyuk -- In no sense of the word is Datsyuk "soft". He may not be a fighter, but I actually consider him one of the best hitters in the league. His hits are precisely timed masterpieces that accomplish exactly what he wants. He has cleanly broken noses and leveled players almost a foot taller and 100 lbs heavier than him.

Red Kelly -- Kelly was a Golden Gloves boxer who could tear apart almost anyone on the ice (and did so on a few occassions), yet he played an intelligent, quiet, positional game much like Lidstrom today.

Marty Barry -- A Hall of Famer who was considered one of the hardest workers in the NHL and one of the toughest -- in 11 seasons he only missed 2 regular season games. He was a vital cog in Detroit's back-to-back Cup wins in the 30s.

Bill Quakenbush -- Another Hall-of-Famer and one of the first elite two-way defensemen, one of the greatest Red Wings defenders of all time and once went 131 NHL games without a penalty.

Earl Reibel -- Once outscored Gordie Howe and actually played on a line with Howe and Lindsay, contributing to two Cup wins in the 50s.

Alex Delvecchio (3 time winner) -- His number hanging in the rafters alone says how much he meant to the Red Wings. By no means a "soft" player he was elite at both ends of the ice and often played through numerous injuries. Unquestioned passion for the game and the Red Wings in particular.

Marcel Dionne -- Unquestionably one of the most exciting and productive players in HNL history. You did not succeed in the NHL in the 70s by being a pushover.

--------------------------

Mike Bossy won the Byng 3 times, and he was as tough as nails, able to score from all over the ice, including the crease where he took an incredible amount of punishment, shortening his career.

Butch Goring played with ruthless abondon, but cleanly, and was another NHL iron-man, playing 379 NHL games without missing one to injury.

Bobby Hull is probably one of the strongest players in NHL history. He did not look for trouble, but did not back away from it either. He fought (and beat) feared enforceres John Ferguson, Reg Flemming and Bryan Watson

Johnny Bucyk was a feared hitter in the NHL.

Stan Mikita was a dirty player until his 6 year-old daughter asked why he spent so much time sitting alone away from his teammates - he changed his style, but was still tough as nails, and went on to win Lady Byngs. One of the greatest two-way players ever.

The year Sakic won it he was also a finalist for the Selke.

Frank Boucher was an outstanding two-way forward... Dave Keon and Syl Apps as well. These were forwards asked to cover the best offensive forwards in the game, and they produced offensively as well.

Gretzky may have been "soft" but he is unquestionably one of the hardest workers ever in the sport, having done far more with less, than any other player ever.

Mats Naslund was a beast known for completely laying players out.

Even blowhards like Don Cherry respect the award and realize the importance of playing the game hard, without taking penalties -- Don Cherry tells about how he used to always tell his team "We're the Boston Bruins and we're the toughest team in the world! There's no Lady Byngers here!" One year Jean Ratelle ended up winning the award and he went to apologize to Cherry for it, saying he wasn't trying to win it. Cherry had to reassure Ratelle that it was great and he didn't want him doing any fighting... not taking penalties did not mean he was "soft".

It should be one of the most prestigious awards in the league. Sportsmanship should be honored. Play hard, play tough, play aggressive. You can play physical in hockey, and not take a penalty.

When I look at the list of players who have won it, I see many of the best players in the history of the sport. With a few exceptions, I see very few "soft" players, but instead an incredible amount of tenacious, hard-working players who played hard on both ends of the ice.

People who dismiss the Lady Byng award are ignorant to the history of hockey and how the game is meant to be played.

Edited September 16, 2009 by egroen

[Zion 93]

[esteef 2,679]

Looks like he was giving Dats pointers after all...although I thought Dats was a little taller than that?

esteef

Edited September 16, 2009 by esteef

[Louisville 112]

Can't find this on THN.com, link?

I read this in the Yearbook issue of THN (has Zetterberg on the cover) so that's probably where he got it from.

[Legendary D In 03 50]

Where is who's irony?

Where is who is irony? Or, where is whose irony?

(There's irony in the fact that you jokingly corrected someone with an error of your own. I like that.)

LDi03

[stevkrause 1,247]

It upsets me to see the generous Viscountess Byng of Vimy being disrespected.

But in all seriousness, the gal was a huge hockey fan -- what's not to like? And she dedicated the trophy to reward gentlemanly play and sportsmanship -- and those in it for the love of the game. For a long time, the Lady Byng was actually considered the "Hart Runner-up" and held much more prestige than it does today, where it now comes with a certain stigma.

That is unfortunate.

Consider some of the players that have won it:

Red Wings

Datsyuk -- In no sense of the word is Datsyuk "soft". He may not be a fighter, but I actually consider him one of the best hitters in the league. His hits are precisely timed masterpieces that accomplish exactly what he wants. He has cleanly broken noses and leveled players almost a foot taller and 100 lbs heavier than him.

Red Kelly -- Kelly was a Golden Gloves boxer who could tear apart almost anyone on the ice (and did so on a few occassions), yet he played an intelligent, quiet, positional game much like Lidstrom today.

Marty Barry -- A Hall of Famer who was considered one of the hardest workers in the NHL and one of the toughest -- in 11 seasons he only missed 2 regular season games. He was a vital cog in Detroit's back-to-back Cup wins in the 30s.

Bill Quakenbush -- Another Hall-of-Famer and one of the first elite two-way defensemen, one of the greatest Red Wings defenders of all time and once went 131 NHL games without a penalty.

Earl Reibel -- Once outscored Gordie Howe and actually played on a line with Howe and Lindsay, contributing to two Cup wins in the 50s.

Alex Delvecchio (3 time winner) -- His number hanging in the rafters alone says how much he meant to the Red Wings. By no means a "soft" player he was elite at both ends of the ice and often played through numerous injuries. Unquestioned passion for the game and the Red Wings in particular.

Marcel Dionne -- Unquestionably one of the most exciting and productive players in HNL history. You did not succeed in the NHL in the 70s by being a pushover.

--------------------------

Mike Bossy won the Byng 3 times, and he was as tough as nails, able to score from all over the ice, including the crease where he took an incredible amount of punishment, shortening his career.

Butch Goring played with ruthless abondon, but cleanly, and was another NHL iron-man, playing 379 NHL games without missing one to injury.

Bobby Hull is probably one of the strongest players in NHL history. He did not look for trouble, but did not back away from it either. He fought (and beat) feared enforceres John Ferguson, Reg Flemming and Bryan Watson

Johnny Bucyk was a feared hitter in the NHL.

Stan Mikita was a dirty player until his 6 year-old daughter asked why he spent so much time sitting alone away from his teammates - he changed his style, but was still tough as nails, and went on to win Lady Byngs. One of the greatest two-way players ever.

The year Sakic won it he was also a finalist for the Selke.

Frank Boucher was an outstanding two-way forward... Dave Keon and Syl Apps as well. These were forwards asked to cover the best offensive forwards in the game, and they produced offensively as well.

Gretzky may have been "soft" but he is unquestionably one of the hardest workers ever in the sport, having done far more with less, than any other player ever.

Mats Naslund was a beast known for completely laying players out.

Even blowhards like Don Cherry respect the award and realize the importance of playing the game hard, without taking penalties -- Don Cherry tells about how he used to always tell his team "We're the Boston Bruins and we're the toughest team in the world! There's no Lady Byngers here!" One year Jean Ratelle ended up winning the award and he went to apologize to Cherry for it, saying he wasn't trying to win it. Cherry had to reassure Ratelle that it was great and he didn't want him doing any fighting... not taking penalties did not mean he was "soft".

It should be one of the most prestigious awards in the league. Sportsmanship should be honored. Play hard, play tough, play aggressive. You can play physical in hockey, and not take a penalty.

When I look at the list of players who have won it, I see many of the best players in the history of the sport. With a few exceptions, I see very few "soft" players, but instead an incredible amount of tenacious, hard-working players who played hard on both ends of the ice.

People who dismiss the Lady Byng award are ignorant to the history of hockey and how the game is meant to be played.

spot on.

[clutchngrab 12]

It upsets me to see the generous Viscountess Byng of Vimy being disrespected.

But in all seriousness, the gal was a huge hockey fan -- what's not to like? And she dedicated the trophy to reward gentlemanly play and sportsmanship -- and those in it for the love of the game. For a long time, the Lady Byng was actually considered the "Hart Runner-up" and held much more prestige than it does today, where it now comes with a certain stigma.

That is unfortunate.

Consider some of the players that have won it:

Red Wings

Datsyuk -- In no sense of the word is Datsyuk "soft". He may not be a fighter, but I actually consider him one of the best hitters in the league. His hits are precisely timed masterpieces that accomplish exactly what he wants. He has cleanly broken noses and leveled players almost a foot taller and 100 lbs heavier than him.

Red Kelly -- Kelly was a Golden Gloves boxer who could tear apart almost anyone on the ice (and did so on a few occassions), yet he played an intelligent, quiet, positional game much like Lidstrom today.

Marty Barry -- A Hall of Famer who was considered one of the hardest workers in the NHL and one of the toughest -- in 11 seasons he only missed 2 regular season games. He was a vital cog in Detroit's back-to-back Cup wins in the 30s.

Bill Quakenbush -- Another Hall-of-Famer and one of the first elite two-way defensemen, one of the greatest Red Wings defenders of all time and once went 131 NHL games without a penalty.

Earl Reibel -- Once outscored Gordie Howe and actually played on a line with Howe and Lindsay, contributing to two Cup wins in the 50s.

Alex Delvecchio (3 time winner) -- His number hanging in the rafters alone says how much he meant to the Red Wings. By no means a "soft" player he was elite at both ends of the ice and often played through numerous injuries. Unquestioned passion for the game and the Red Wings in particular.

Marcel Dionne -- Unquestionably one of the most exciting and productive players in HNL history. You did not succeed in the NHL in the 70s by being a pushover.

--------------------------

Mike Bossy won the Byng 3 times, and he was as tough as nails, able to score from all over the ice, including the crease where he took an incredible amount of punishment, shortening his career.

Butch Goring played with ruthless abondon, but cleanly, and was another NHL iron-man, playing 379 NHL games without missing one to injury.

Bobby Hull is probably one of the strongest players in NHL history. He did not look for trouble, but did not back away from it either. He fought (and beat) feared enforceres John Ferguson, Reg Flemming and Bryan Watson

Johnny Bucyk was a feared hitter in the NHL.

Stan Mikita was a dirty player until his 6 year-old daughter asked why he spent so much time sitting alone away from his teammates - he changed his style, but was still tough as nails, and went on to win Lady Byngs. One of the greatest two-way players ever.

The year Sakic won it he was also a finalist for the Selke.

Frank Boucher was an outstanding two-way forward... Dave Keon and Syl Apps as well. These were forwards asked to cover the best offensive forwards in the game, and they produced offensively as well.

Gretzky may have been "soft" but he is unquestionably one of the hardest workers ever in the sport, having done far more with less, than any other player ever.

Mats Naslund was a beast known for completely laying players out.

Even blowhards like Don Cherry respect the award and realize the importance of playing the game hard, without taking penalties -- Don Cherry tells about how he used to always tell his team "We're the Boston Bruins and we're the toughest team in the world! There's no Lady Byngers here!" One year Jean Ratelle ended up winning the award and he went to apologize to Cherry for it, saying he wasn't trying to win it. Cherry had to reassure Ratelle that it was great and he didn't want him doing any fighting... not taking penalties did not mean he was "soft".

It should be one of the most prestigious awards in the league. Sportsmanship should be honored. Play hard, play tough, play aggressive. You can play physical in hockey, and not take a penalty.

When I look at the list of players who have won it, I see many of the best players in the history of the sport. With a few exceptions, I see very few "soft" players, but instead an incredible amount of tenacious, hard-working players who played hard on both ends of the ice.

People who dismiss the Lady Byng award are ignorant to the history of hockey and how the game is meant to be played.

Wow what a list. Awesome post.

[Opie 308]

It upsets me to see the generous Viscountess Byng of Vimy being disrespected.

But in all seriousness, the gal was a huge hockey fan -- what's not to like? And she dedicated the trophy to reward gentlemanly play and sportsmanship -- and those in it for the love of the game. For a long time, the Lady Byng was actually considered the "Hart Runner-up" and held much more prestige than it does today, where it now comes with a certain stigma.

That is unfortunate.

Consider some of the players that have won it:

Red Wings

Datsyuk -- In no sense of the word is Datsyuk "soft". He may not be a fighter, but I actually consider him one of the best hitters in the league. His hits are precisely timed masterpieces that accomplish exactly what he wants. He has cleanly broken noses and leveled players almost a foot taller and 100 lbs heavier than him.

Red Kelly -- Kelly was a Golden Gloves boxer who could tear apart almost anyone on the ice (and did so on a few occassions), yet he played an intelligent, quiet, positional game much like Lidstrom today.

Marty Barry -- A Hall of Famer who was considered one of the hardest workers in the NHL and one of the toughest -- in 11 seasons he only missed 2 regular season games. He was a vital cog in Detroit's back-to-back Cup wins in the 30s.

Bill Quakenbush -- Another Hall-of-Famer and one of the first elite two-way defensemen, one of the greatest Red Wings defenders of all time and once went 131 NHL games without a penalty.

Earl Reibel -- Once outscored Gordie Howe and actually played on a line with Howe and Lindsay, contributing to two Cup wins in the 50s.

Alex Delvecchio (3 time winner) -- His number hanging in the rafters alone says how much he meant to the Red Wings. By no means a "soft" player he was elite at both ends of the ice and often played through numerous injuries. Unquestioned passion for the game and the Red Wings in particular.

Marcel Dionne -- Unquestionably one of the most exciting and productive players in HNL history. You did not succeed in the NHL in the 70s by being a pushover.

--------------------------

Mike Bossy won the Byng 3 times, and he was as tough as nails, able to score from all over the ice, including the crease where he took an incredible amount of punishment, shortening his career.

Butch Goring played with ruthless abondon, but cleanly, and was another NHL iron-man, playing 379 NHL games without missing one to injury.

Bobby Hull is probably one of the strongest players in NHL history. He did not look for trouble, but did not back away from it either. He fought (and beat) feared enforceres John Ferguson, Reg Flemming and Bryan Watson

Johnny Bucyk was a feared hitter in the NHL.

Stan Mikita was a dirty player until his 6 year-old daughter asked why he spent so much time sitting alone away from his teammates - he changed his style, but was still tough as nails, and went on to win Lady Byngs. One of the greatest two-way players ever.

The year Sakic won it he was also a finalist for the Selke.

Frank Boucher was an outstanding two-way forward... Dave Keon and Syl Apps as well. These were forwards asked to cover the best offensive forwards in the game, and they produced offensively as well.

Gretzky may have been "soft" but he is unquestionably one of the hardest workers ever in the sport, having done far more with less, than any other player ever.

Mats Naslund was a beast known for completely laying players out.

Even blowhards like Don Cherry respect the award and realize the importance of playing the game hard, without taking penalties -- Don Cherry tells about how he used to always tell his team "We're the Boston Bruins and we're the toughest team in the world! There's no Lady Byngers here!" One year Jean Ratelle ended up winning the award and he went to apologize to Cherry for it, saying he wasn't trying to win it. Cherry had to reassure Ratelle that it was great and he didn't want him doing any fighting... not taking penalties did not mean he was "soft".

It should be one of the most prestigious awards in the league. Sportsmanship should be honored. Play hard, play tough, play aggressive. You can play physical in hockey, and not take a penalty.

When I look at the list of players who have won it, I see many of the best players in the history of the sport. With a few exceptions, I see very few "soft" players, but instead an incredible amount of tenacious, hard-working players who played hard on both ends of the ice.

People who dismiss the Lady Byng award are ignorant to the history of hockey and how the game is meant to be played.

F*(king A, what a great post!

[55fan 5,133]

Add me to those applauding egroen's post.

[TX Wing 26]

You can play physical in hockey, and not take a penalty.

Well said sir.

[HadThomasVokounOnFortSt 878]

This is pretty cool, no lie..

[hockey&beer 16]

Can't find this on THN.com, link?

I never actually searched for it on the site. Unlike many oot there I still subscribe to the paper mag, as I also still buy CDs.

[Rivalred 630]

I never actually searched for it on the site. Unlike many oot there I still subscribe to the paper mag, as I also still buy CDs.

It is true folks... This man is old school.

Good topic here bud... Hope to see you again this season!

[hockey&beer 16]

I read this in the Yearbook issue of THN (has Zetterberg on the cover) so that's probably where he got it from.

Actually it's the following issue featuring Tavares on the cover,.

[hockey&beer 16]

I think that what Pav does is damn-near amazing. The man is a defensive beast, offensive wizard and can do it all within the rules of the game. If you look at the stats he puts up and his competition at the top of those lists there isn't another player that is so complete. I have said for years that the Selke is a great honor, but if you add the Byng on top of that, isn't that a Selke+? It's great to be defensively sound, but if you're the one in the box it really is worthless isn't it?

[Kira 451]

Unfortunately some seem to think that the Byng is a "wuss" award. Nothing could be further from the truth. But they will never be convinced otherwise.

[Guest micah]

Interesting invite.

And two points for the record...one, Pasha doesn't have a cocky bone in his body...never has had one. Two, with all due respect, micah, maybe Derek needs to pound some sense into your head. The Lady Byng is one of the oldest and most respected awards given in the league. Winning it is an honor, nothing to be ashamed of. Pasha is in some pretty good company on the list of previous winners. Read your NHL history and you might learn something.

This thread was the first I'd heard of the Lady Byng, actually. I don't watch much hockey, and I'm completely ignorant of it's history.

It is a dumb award. Still. Even though sometimes great players win it and it's very old.

[Guest micah]

Unfortunately some seem to think that the Byng is a "wuss" award. Nothing could be further from the truth. But they will never be convinced otherwise.

Who?

[Guest micah]

FWIW, I also think that the Messier Leadership award ofWankery is dumb. Even though Messier was a very good player and leader, even though Mess had fr greater impact on the sport than Ms Byng ever did, even though some greats have already won the award. It's dumb.

[egroen 384]

FWIW, I also think that the Messier Leadership award ofWankery is dumb. Even though Messier was a very good player and leader, even though Mess had fr greater impact on the sport than Ms Byng ever did, even though some greats have already won the award. It's dumb.

You're dumb!

The leadership award is dumb because:

A) It's Messier: Who is one of the most overrated leaders ever. Beliveau is still alive and was a much greater leader --universally respected; as opposed to Moose.

B) How does he measure it? I picture him eating corn nuts at a strip club and writing out the finalists on a cocktail napkin based on whatever highlights are playing on the TV over the bar that night.

I doubt he is in the locker room; I doubt he is interviewing players from each team. It's rather hard to measure that sort of intangible on a team-by-team basis each year.

The Byng has not merely been awarded to "some greats" - it is specifically awarded to greats, or Kyle Wellwood would have won it by now.

The ability to be effective on the ice both offensively and defensively w/o setting your team at a disadvantage short-handed, and not be in the box, when you're team needs you is invaluable.... and it is not easy in hockey.

It's a unique, historical award that has unfortunately been downplayed and disrespected over the past few decades by lugheads who are frankly ignorant of the great value of these type of players and the great spirit of the intent of the award.

[egroen 384]

This thread was the first I'd heard of the Lady Byng, actually. I don't watch much hockey, and I'm completely ignorant of it's history.

It is a dumb award. Still. Even though sometimes great players win it and it's very old.

Which players were not "great" in the year they won it? .... if you know so much of hockey history, please enlighten me.

The majority of those players are Hall-of-Famers or will be.

[NGKEIB 32]

Maybe Datsyuk is angry that Scotty worked him over, and he wants to get some tips.