GMRwings1983 8,803 Report post Posted September 25, 2009 Last year this was our biggest weakness in the regular season and playoffs. I think they need to use less forward combos, because it's better to have designated PK men, rather than having every damn forward out there killing penalties. I know Babcock does it to keep people fresh, but it also seems to kill the rhythm and flow of the PK. They need to attack the point men more often. We don't do a good job of blocking shots or of challenging the point, which is where most goals against were scored last year on the PK. Too many screens and deflection goals as a result of poor point coverage. It seems like the Wings like to collapse, instead of expand the box. Also, the goalie has to be the best penalty killer, and Ozzie sucked at it all year, including the playoffs that he played well in otherwise. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DMAC 25 18 Report post Posted September 25, 2009 just trust babcock and the wings, they'll get it fiqured out Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,803 Report post Posted September 25, 2009 just trust babcock and the wings, they'll get it fiqured out They sure as hell didn't last season, even in the playoffs. I'm not too sure if I should trust Babcock and McCrimmon on this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reds4Life 51 Report post Posted September 25, 2009 If Osgood doesn't suck again Wings will be fine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,803 Report post Posted September 25, 2009 If Osgood doesn't suck again Wings will be fine. But like I said in my post, Ozzie had a good playoff, yet this team was terrible killing penalties in the playoffs. They almost lost the Anaheim series because of it. So it's not just Ozzie. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buppy 1,720 Report post Posted September 25, 2009 Another issue, hand in hand with passive point coverage, was 'losing' guys in the slot. Puck cycling in the corner, two PKers go after it, and bam, someone comes down wide open between the circles. But I think our biggest problem, both on the PK and defense in general was just a lack of intensity. On offense as well (turnovers, not as much puck possession...). We had a team last year that probably could have scored 350 goals, we just spent far too much time on cruise control. Our talent was enough to mask the laziness on offense, but that doesn't work in the other end. This year's team can put up close to 300 goals again, but if we coast as much as last year we'll be lucky to hit 250, and the defense will be just as bad. And without a big shot-blocker the PK will probably be worse. But I have faith that the team will be more motivated this year, and less hung-over. Lack of a shot blocker still worries me a bit. I think that's the reason the PK never got going in the playoffs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DMAC 25 18 Report post Posted September 25, 2009 They sure as hell didn't last season, even in the playoffs. I'm not too sure if I should trust Babcock and McCrimmon on this. fire mccrimmon, problem solved Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevkrause 1,247 Report post Posted September 25, 2009 I agree 100% - I've never been a fan of a collapsing box, or a diamond formation - I think the best option for a PK is a large box, cuts off the down low passes and the point shots, the only real risk to this is opening up the slot, but as long as they cycle the box properly and have guys with quick legs and intensity (ie. Helm, Zetterberg) who will hound their men and get the clear, you'll be fine... another key to good penalty killing is faceoffs... you control those and you cut 5-10 seconds off of every PK per draw taken... I also agree that they need to stick to 2 set pairs of D-men on the kill and 3 set pairs of forwards - Penalty Killers should ALWAYS be: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Helm, Draper, Filpulla, Eaves/Maltby Lidstrom, Ericsson, Stuart, Kronwall/Lilja (when healthy) As for Osgood, give him clean looks and get rid of the screens and he'll be fine... Stick to this and you're gold. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevkrause 1,247 Report post Posted September 25, 2009 fire mccrimmon, problem solved I'm iffy on McCrimmon too... Cheli needs to just retire already and take a position here, then in a few years of seasoning, step in as the D coach... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
P. Marlowe 748 Report post Posted September 25, 2009 Wow, I hope Babcock is reading this. Sometimes you make a simple thing so complicated that you need to just get back to the basics. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dat's sick 1,002 Report post Posted September 25, 2009 Just throw Z, Lidstrom and Ericsson out there. Even if it's a 5 on 4. The Wings play better when 2 men down than with just 1. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drake_Marcus 890 Report post Posted September 25, 2009 I agree 100% - I've never been a fan of a collapsing box, or a diamond formation - I think the best option for a PK is a large box, cuts off the down low passes and the point shots, the only real risk to this is opening up the slot, but as long as they cycle the box properly and have guys with quick legs and intensity (ie. Helm, Zetterberg) who will hound their men and get the clear, you'll be fine... another key to good penalty killing is faceoffs... you control those and you cut 5-10 seconds off of every PK per draw taken... I also agree that they need to stick to 2 set pairs of D-men on the kill and 3 set pairs of forwards - Penalty Killers should ALWAYS be: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Helm, Draper, Filpulla, Eaves/Maltby Lidstrom, Ericsson, Stuart, Kronwall/Lilja (when healthy) As for Osgood, give him clean looks and get rid of the screens and he'll be fine... Stick to this and you're gold. This! Way too many guys get to stand around in front of Ozzie. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heaton 1 Report post Posted September 25, 2009 Last year was an abberation with the cup hangover and the overabundance of fire power. The players knew they didn't have to focus a ton on defense and by the time the playoffs came around it was impossible to rectify. As for the McCrimmon argument, MacLean is still here and the past history nullifies the claim. McCrimmon would have to be a terrible coach and a tyrant to undue all of the teaching from previous coaches to make the PK be that bad and him be the sole reason. We have a veteran team, they know how to PK and don't need a lot of coaching. The PK will be much better this year, they have a year with the faceoff in the offensive zone under their belt and will be able to work around it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buppy 1,720 Report post Posted September 25, 2009 ... I also agree that they need to stick to 2 set pairs of D-men on the kill and 3 set pairs of forwards - Penalty Killers should ALWAYS be: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Helm, Draper, Filpulla, Eaves/Maltby Lidstrom, Ericsson, Stuart, Kronwall/Lilja (when healthy) ... Ideally, for ice time reasons, I think Pav and Hank should only play secondary PK roles, at least until the playoffs. I believe last year Flip & Cleary were the best of the dozen or so units we used. Maltby was statistically our best individual. Helm deserves a chance to fully establish himself as Draper 2.0. I'd go: Flip - Cleary Helm - Draper/Maltby/Eaves Pav/Hank used as alternates I'd like to see Lidstrom off the PK more often, but don't see how that's very feasible. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest mindfly Report post Posted September 25, 2009 I'm not sure Lidstrom is the best option for the PK though, he's not big and doesn't block alot of shots, I would prefer a big body ericsson and lilja would've been perfect and two hardcore forwards who loves to block I think Cleary and Z are good at that Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,803 Report post Posted September 25, 2009 I'm not sure Lidstrom is the best option for the PK though, he's not big and doesn't block alot of shots, I would prefer a big body ericsson and lilja would've been perfect and two hardcore forwards who loves to block I think Cleary and Z are good at that Lidstrom is the best PK man in the league and the best player in the league. You're right that he doesn't block shots, but that isn't a reason to take your best player off the PK. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest mindfly Report post Posted September 25, 2009 I am a lids fan but i think he lost it a bit the past few years... but then again the whole team was abysmal.. Would it not be better to use him more in 5on5 and pp and use someone else on PK. He's not exactly getting younger. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Superman54 91 Report post Posted September 25, 2009 I know its tough to admit, but when watching the playoffs we didnt have the display of north american bravery when it came to penalty killing. The courage to put their bodies in the way, and attack was not shown enough. When watching the penalty killing, no one ever attacked the point man and it destroyed us. Until the wings take the point away, it'll continue sucking. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heroes of Hockeytown 694 Report post Posted September 25, 2009 I am a lids fan but i think he lost it a bit the past few years... but then again the whole team was abysmal.. Would it not be better to use him more in 5on5 and pp and use someone else on PK. He's not exactly getting younger. Nick's play style lends itself well to conserving energy. Even as he's getting older he still occasionally takes on 30 minute marathon games and I've never seen him huffing and puffing after a shift. So, considering the amount of talent he still has, I wouldn't take him off the PK. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,803 Report post Posted September 25, 2009 I know its tough to admit, but when watching the playoffs we didnt have the display of north american bravery when it came to penalty killing. The courage to put their bodies in the way, and attack was not shown enough. When watching the penalty killing, no one ever attacked the point man and it destroyed us. Until the wings take the point away, it'll continue sucking. That's because Lilja wasn't playing. He'll give us that North American bravery that we're lacking on the PK. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dat's sick 1,002 Report post Posted September 25, 2009 I am a lids fan but i think he lost it a bit the past few years... but then again the whole team was abysmal.. Would it not be better to use him more in 5on5 and pp and use someone else on PK. He's not exactly getting younger. You're the master of exaggeration. The past few years? He had a so-and-so first half of last season, and was slowed down by injury trouble in the playoffs, but still had a good year. The two years before last were some of the best seasons he's ever had. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest mindfly Report post Posted September 25, 2009 Yeahyeah..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevkrause 1,247 Report post Posted September 26, 2009 how the f did this take the turn to the "toughness" debate??! this has NOTHING to do with North American or European or Asian or African - it has to do with desire and will, which we have plenty of... it's all about execution... I, as much as the next guy, can see the purpose of a guy that can stand up for teammates, but this has NOTHING to do with the PK and has no place in this thread... it's getting really annoying how every single thread on this board gets hijacked to a debate of toughness... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Winged_Wheeler 3 Report post Posted September 26, 2009 Fire Brad McCrimmon and bring in someone who actually knows defense. I don't know why everyone tries to question firing him, he's a mediocre coach that shouldn't be on the coaching staff. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,803 Report post Posted September 26, 2009 how the f did this take the turn to the "toughness" debate??! this has NOTHING to do with North American or European or Asian or African - it has to do with desire and will, which we have plenty of... it's all about execution... I, as much as the next guy, can see the purpose of a guy that can stand up for teammates, but this has NOTHING to do with the PK and has no place in this thread... it's getting really annoying how every single thread on this board gets hijacked to a debate of toughness... I know this is my thread (which probably automatically makes you suspect me), but nowhere did this turn into a toughness debate. Mindfly just doesn't think Lidstrom is cutting it, and most people disagree. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
