Red Wings VP Jimmy Devellano on Fan 590: Wings fans should lower expec

[Buppy 1,720]

...Something more appropriate he could have said would have gone something like this: "Things aren't going to come quite as easy this year with the loss of so many goals from the roster. We're going to have to work a lot harder and grind out some much less "pretty" goals..much like our opposition has done against us for years. The situation might be a little different next year with the extra cap space - but we are expected to win in the here and now and that's still our plan."...

That's more or less what he did say.

"We are going to have to work very, very hard to be competitive, and to make the playoffs. That's the truth."

"Now, saying all that, you have to replace those players, and we have to hope that we can upgrade next summer, when money comes off the cap. "

[Buppy 1,720]

To not be happy with things is not to be a bandwagon fan. ... The NHL needed to deliberately weaken teams like the Wings so teams like the Yotes would have any hope of surviving in a place it was pretty insane to force a team in to. ...

Anyways, I guess I am a bandwagon fan now as well, and apparently even being a fan through the pre '97 years does not make up for it, but I lost a lot of interest in the NHL after the cap started, ... I do not have the same interest watching my team struggle and knowing had the leaugue not put limits on the front office things would most likely be different, ....

Bottom line, If getting the toy pony makes you a bandwagon fan, then I can live with that title.

Bottom line is that parity is good for the NHL and hockey. The cap helps to achieve parity.

Sure, maybe it's fun for you to tune in to a Wings game knowing they will most likely win. But look at it from the perspective of the other team fans...would you want to tune in/buy a ticket if you knew they would most likely lose. Seems that way if you're already losing interest in your team for not being able to dominate the way have in recent years.

Yeah, it is being a bandwagon fan if you're only interested when the team is winning. That's the definition of bandwagon.

The simple fact is that cap or no cap, we weren't going to stay top contenders forever. Cap or no cap, we'd eventually miss the playoffs. You can only get so many prized free agents, so many gems with late draft picks...The cap maybe will hasten the end of our run, maybe not. Maybe we'll recover, win the Cup, then reload next year and stay on top for another 15 years. Maybe without a cap, we'd have signed Hossa, and still be in a similar situation only due to injuries. Maybe we'd have brought in other FAs only to still struggle with players trying to learn the system.

It's not like anyone has thrown in the towel on the season or suggested we're in rebuilding mode. No one has said 'we're not going to win this year'. Only that we're not a lock for a top playoff seed, that we probably won't be winning at the pace we're used to, that we shouldn't expect a Central title or President's Trophy. If you're going to lose interest in the team simply because we're not favorites, well... don't let the door hit ya.

[talex 1]

Bottom line is that parity is good for the NHL and hockey. The cap helps to achieve parity.

Sure, maybe it's fun for you to tune in to a Wings game knowing they will most likely win. But look at it from the perspective of the other team fans...would you want to tune in/buy a ticket if you knew they would most likely lose. Seems that way if you're already losing interest in your team for not being able to dominate the way have in recent years.

Yeah, it is being a bandwagon fan if you're only interested when the team is winning. That's the definition of bandwagon.

The simple fact is that cap or no cap, we weren't going to stay top contenders forever. Cap or no cap, we'd eventually miss the playoffs. You can only get so many prized free agents, so many gems with late draft picks...The cap maybe will hasten the end of our run, maybe not. Maybe we'll recover, win the Cup, then reload next year and stay on top for another 15 years. Maybe without a cap, we'd have signed Hossa, and still be in a similar situation only due to injuries. Maybe we'd have brought in other FAs only to still struggle with players trying to learn the system.

It's not like anyone has thrown in the towel on the season or suggested we're in rebuilding mode. No one has said 'we're not going to win this year'. Only that we're not a lock for a top playoff seed, that we probably won't be winning at the pace we're used to, that we shouldn't expect a Central title or President's Trophy. If you're going to lose interest in the team simply because we're not favorites, well... don't let the door hit ya.

Glad to see yet another official rep of who can be a fan and who cannot and the strick code you have come up with to qualify, funny how the Wings will still take my money when I decide to see games in person, order one online or purchase apparel at Hockeytown Authentics or at the game. Anyway to answer your post, I am ok with the title you officially tagged me with, yet again none of those like you care to acknowledge that people like me were fans prior to this winning streak in the 80's and 90's, things have changed in the NHL, not in me and it not a matter of winning or not winning either, you totally missed the point... there is a BIG difference between knowing and not knowing if your team would have built a different team, right now we all KNOW the team would be different, hell in the Jimmy D interview he even alludes to this.

As for what is better for the NHL, I believe a Luxury tax for over the cap would have been a better solution for parity, but then again I am not Bettman (thank god) and I think it is to early to tell if this "parity" really helps or hurts. I am not the only one who has lost some interest in the game in general due to some of the changes, what it boils down to is will these new mostly casual fans spend the kind of money and be in the numbers to make up for fans like myself who would invest several thousand a year? Again like I stated before I think the verdict is out on that one.

Bottom line for me remains the same as my original post, Title accepted... Bandwagon fan I am.

Edited October 26, 2009 by talex

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

I'm not exactly convinced by Jimmy D. Whereas I realistically didn't see us making a 3rd straight finals appearance, just looking at the statistical chances of that happening......I don't expect us to "squeak" into the playoffs.

Are the Aves really that good? I'm not convinced. They have too many young guys who haven't done it for a year. Are the Kings? I'm definitely not sold on the Kings. Some teams are improved, yes. But in the end, I don't think that the emergence of any other team is going to affect the Wings ability to make the playoffs.

As I have said 50 times already, I'm reserving judgment until about the 25-30 game mark to see where we are at.

A team with arguably the 2 best all around forwards in hockey (D & Z) simply cannot be mediocre and squeak into the playoffs.

A team with the greatest dman of a generation and 2 other defenders capable of banging 50+ points a year cannot be mediocre and squeak into the playoffs.

A team that still has strength at the center position and can dominate in the faceoff circle for an entire season simply cannot be mediocre and squeak into the playoffs.

The Wings still have a fantastic system. They still have a ton of leadership and arguably more skilled players than any other team in the league from top to bottom.

I'm not convinced this team will have to squeak into anything. I'm still not convinced they won't win the division, even from what I have seen thus far.

Franzen will be back.

Holmstrom seems to have found some of his touch.

The new guys are killing me a slow death already but it's too early to bring down the guillotine on their heads (Bertuzzi & Williams).

The goaltending hasn't dazzled me yet.

Still, another 20 games before I panic at all.

[OsGOD 3]

well i will ******* lower my expectations when they ******* lower my ticket prices back to the mid 1980s prices when i had lower expectations... Front row uppers for $12

until then... the wings org can piss off with their lower expectations talk!

Surely they are dilusional to expect Detroit area hockey fans to PAY MORE and EXPECT LESS... what are we? Lions fans?

Even meijer's has their slogan as EXPECT MORE PAY LESS!

Edited October 26, 2009 by OsGOD

[Broken 16 381]

Kinda nice to have a season where the Wings might actually have to start playing solid hockey before the playoffs start.

[xtrememachine1 795]

Granted the Wings haven't looked great so far, but nobody wins the Cup in October. As long as they're good enough to make the playoffs, which they are, getting hyper over a things that are happening now is kinda pointless. The Pens were in 10th place in February before they won the Cup. Edmonton made it to the Finals as the 8th seed and came within one game of the Cup in '06. Anaheim was a 7th seed in '03 when they came within one win of a Cup. The Wings have a long time before they need to right the ship. I'll start worrying if their on the verge of getting eliminated in April, May or June.

[Doc Holiday 0]

Fixed...

For your information: Since his retirement as coach in 2002, Bowman worked as a special consultant to the Red Wings

And at the end of the day, his expertise is in coaching, not in being a GM.

Why do you think it was so easy to let the guy go to Chicago? Bowman was no longer a vital piece in the Red Wings machine by that point.

Edited October 26, 2009 by Doc Holiday

[StormJH1 231]

I think its a bit absurd for fans to have the same expectations after an efflux of Hossa, Hudler, Franzen, Sammuelson, Kopecky, Lilja, Conklin, Chelios, and Franzen. Sure some replacements may be upgrades, but with the money we had available, there was no way to maintain the level of skill Detroit is used to.

Having said that, you don't play the game just to make the playoffs. You play to win the Cup. And I expect the Wings to act like they want to play for the Cup, regardless of who they lost. Besides Filppulla, Leino, and Williams, they haven't done that yet.

I agree only partially with your first paragraph. It's one thing for Wings fans to blindly assume we'll be the best team in the Central (or the West!) year after year regardless of what the roster looks like. Wings fans have been guilty for years of being indifferent to this team until the Conference Finals roll around, and for some fans, the bandwagon label clearly applies.

But the Wings are 3-6 including OT losses, and Devellano's timing sucks. Here we are 9 games into the season and you're telling fans of team that was one home victory away from being the back-to-back Stanley Cup champions that they shouldn't be upset that their team is 3 and 6? If these personnel problems were so obvious such as to make this result likely or inevitable, then why did they (a) not do more to correct them, such as axing nostalgically overpriced veterans for younger (and bigger) talent; or (b) why did they box themselves into a corner where they wouldn't have the cap room to address these problems. This front office, which has recevied glowing positivity from the fan base for the majority of the past two decades, needed to have a better strategy for the mass exodus of talent that left here, aside from simply trying to rebuild the 2007 Red Wings.

I'm here, I'm posting, I buy your team's apparel, I'm DVR'ing the games from out of market, and following every single game. I'm not bandwagon, and I don't want to hear that I'm supposed to be happy about going from what I saw in June to what I'm seeing now. Pisses me off. (and the guy a few posts above talking about the increase in ticket prices in a city with 28% unemployment also had a GREAT point).

Edited October 26, 2009 by StormJH1

[Frozen-Man 144]

I find it funny how it is okay for one of Detroit's top front office guys to say that a team that has been "cup or nothing" for the past 18 years is not (not even a year removed from going to game seven in the cup finals) going to be that way any longer.

No fan wants to hear that, and saying that isn't going to bring butts in the seats or make people excited to watch the team.

I agree with what your saying doc. I think Jimmy D may have been giving this interview more for the benefit of the team than of the fans. There has to be big difference between hearing pep rally speeches in the locker room and in hearing management basically denigrating the potential of you as a player and the team you play on. I could be wrong but I'll bet this eats on some of the Wings and I'm sure Jimmy knew it would when he said it, which makes these statements even more important:

" I don't know how I can put it any other way than to be truthful; you can't lose those types of players and have the record we had a year ago. We are going to have to work very, very hard to be competitive, and to make the playoffs. That's the truth."

and

"The way Kenny Holland describes our year, and he has warned our ownership and our people, is, this is a year of transition for the Detroit Red Wings. We haven't had a year like this, maybe, Roger, in nearly 20, but it is a transitional year because of the cap, because of the people that we have lost, and, uh, our goal now is to try to compete and make the playoffs, and then..."

[Buppy 1,720]

I agree only partially with your first paragraph. It's one thing for Wings fans to blindly assume we'll be the best team in the Central (or the West!) year after year regardless of what the roster looks like. Wings fans have been guilty for years of being indifferent to this team until the Conference Finals roll around, and for some fans, the bandwagon label clearly applies.

But the Wings are 3-6 including OT losses, and Devellano's timing sucks. Here we are 9 games into the season and you're telling fans of team that was one home victory away from being the back-to-back Stanley Cup champions that they shouldn't be upset that their team is 3 and 6? If these personnel problems were so obvious such as to make this result likely or inevitable, then why did they (a) not do more to correct them, such as axing nostalgically overpriced veterans for younger (and bigger) talent; or (b) why did they box themselves into a corner where they wouldn't have the cap room to address these problems. This front office, which has recevied glowing positivity from the fan base for the majority of the past two decades, needed to have a better strategy for the mass exodus of talent that left here, aside from simply trying to rebuild the 2007 Red Wings.

...

It's not about being happy, it's about being realistic. Reality is the parity in the league. There simply isn't that big of a gap between the top and the middle or even the bottom teams. You shouldn't be too upset over being 3-6. It's 3-6, not 18-36.

You're reading too much into what he said. All he said was that realistically, we shouldn't expect to win 50+ games. He said we need to work very hard to win games and make the playoffs. You're all acting like he said 'we have no chance to win the Cup, so we won't even try, and you should all be happy about it'.

In regards to the front office:

For one, I don't think anyone can 'plan' for Lilja's lack of recovery, Franzen's long tern injury, or Hudler's defection. Anyone should have known Hossa would leave, and that we wouldn't replace him. Last year we had Hank and Franzen at bargain prices...this year we don't.

I think they wanted to keep Hudler, though we may have had to move someone to do it. Leino for around $2 million less is a move I'm sure most here would have done in the offseason. Willy in for Sammy at $1 mil less...doesn't seem like a bad deal to me. Helm for Kopy is a big upgrade. I'm sure most here wanted Ericsson in full time. And funny you should mention 'axing nostalgically overpriced veterans', (assuming you mean Maltby, Draper, and Homer by that) when they have been among our best performers thus far.

I'd like to know what moves you think should have been made. Including contract specifics, and exactly how said moves would have effected our record this year. Then build a time machine, and make those moves happen. Basically, unless you have some way to prove that a different strategy would have been more successful, you're just blowing smoke.

You all come off like a bunch of pissy brats, whining over a handful of losses.

[Electrophile 3,554]

Some of you slay me.

Devellano is being realistic. I like realism. While I love optimism too and don't always feel pessimism is productive, sometimes looking at the situation and being objective about it is the right thing to do. Realism isn't always negative. It just is. And the truth is, the team lost a lot over the off-season. We are nowhere near the team that won in '08 or the team that went to the Cup finals just this past June. If those teams were at a 9 and 7 respectively, we're at a 4 or 5 right now. I think we will make the playoffs this year again and be competitive, but the time will come when we won't and what are we going to do here when that happens? Piss and moan all day? What he's saying is that we should realize the good times don't last forever and for every peak, there is a valley.

It's not like he came out and said "We suck, f*** the season, burn the place to the ground and collect the insurance."

[FedorovMan91 1]

I like his realism but I think it is not really necessary to say on the media. Everyone knows the Wings have been the best NHL team for last years and years but this year may be toughest year. Be genuine, the Wings are not comparable with Calgary, San Jose, and Pittsburgh at this point. Things usually get changed but by the roster we have now, it would be hillarious if the Wings get past the 2nd round.

It is time for some people here to find out the truth. Not bashing specific people but some people here are way too optimisic about the Wings by how they performed in last many years. What is funny about some people in this forum is that the ONLY reason the Wings lost because they played lazy or the opponent goalie was insanely awesome. Both are the factors the team needs to overcome to win the game. If the Wings lost by those two reasons, it is extremely funny to call them PROFESSIONAL PLAYERS.

I think it is the year that many bandwagon Wings fans leave. Be patient. This is not the end of the world. Watch 20 more games and come back to the thread

[clutchngrab 12]

One of the reasons we are feeling a little pain right now is that the wings have been overly conservative in bringing in younger players in deference to the vets. The cap era has changed the dynamics of how your roster should be built. It's almost imperative that there are a few good 20 yr old+ players that don't hammer your cap and allow you to build around your core. The Wings are doing the right thing now, it will just take a little time.

It will be interesting to see how the long term contracts for Dats, Z and Franzen ultimately work out.

[clutchngrab 12]

It's not about being happy, it's about being realistic. Reality is the parity in the league. There simply isn't that big of a gap between the top and the middle or even the bottom teams. You shouldn't be too upset over being 3-6. It's 3-6, not 18-36.

You're reading too much into what he said. All he said was that realistically, we shouldn't expect to win 50+ games. He said we need to work very hard to win games and make the playoffs. You're all acting like he said 'we have no chance to win the Cup, so we won't even try, and you should all be happy about it'.

In regards to the front office:

For one, I don't think anyone can 'plan' for Lilja's lack of recovery, Franzen's long tern injury, or Hudler's defection. Anyone should have known Hossa would leave, and that we wouldn't replace him. Last year we had Hank and Franzen at bargain prices...this year we don't.

I think they wanted to keep Hudler, though we may have had to move someone to do it. Leino for around $2 million less is a move I'm sure most here would have done in the offseason. Willy in for Sammy at $1 mil less...doesn't seem like a bad deal to me. Helm for Kopy is a big upgrade. I'm sure most here wanted Ericsson in full time. And funny you should mention 'axing nostalgically overpriced veterans', (assuming you mean Maltby, Draper, and Homer by that) when they have been among our best performers thus far.

I'd like to know what moves you think should have been made. Including contract specifics, and exactly how said moves would have effected our record this year. Then build a time machine, and make those moves happen. Basically, unless you have some way to prove that a different strategy would have been more successful, you're just blowing smoke.

You all come off like a bunch of pissy brats, whining over a handful of losses.

The only thing you didn't touch on was goaltending - which is elevated in importance minus the offensive juggernaut of the past.

[Coolio Mendez 7]

This is not last year's Red Wings powerhouse. Ken Holland told a Toronto radio station after the team had first arrived in Detroit that Red Wings fans will have to get used to nail biting hockey games in the new NHL as the team will need to do more than show up this year.

[Guest CaliWingsNut]

I don't wanna see Detroit "tank" this season (I'm using "tank" lightly, and know I'll get bashed for it).

Realistically, it's likely a very smart business decision. They've retained the team major stars, and are utilizing a tight salary cap year to develop new players. When the cap goes up again (and it will at some point) we will be sitting pretty with a developed team ready for new additions. Where as other teams such as Chicago, are banking on a good year this year and are going to have hell next year.

As for this interview... It sucks.

I agree with several others who said they lost respect for the man. I haven't lost all respect for him, but that was just a horrid interview.

He explains how successful teams, have successful teams (well, at least a player). What a revelation! Explains how our team this year won't be all that great (didn't you just explain about successfu...). Then finishes it up with bitching about not filling seats!

How does this interview bode well at all for the Red Wings?

Sports are a cut throat world, you watch what Babcock says publicly and he's VERY careful. Jimmy D was just absolutely reckless here.

[Crashnburnluder 385]

I dont lose any respect with Devellano for stating this... because right now the way we are playing and such its true.... My only thing that confuses me is why is this seasons team considered such a down fall... Yes last year we had a monster of a team, but Im more looking at the year that we won the cup....? I know from that year we lost Hudler, Sammy, Lilja, Hasek, and now Franzen.... Is there anybody else im missing... thats where I get confused did Hasek really make that big of an impact that season in net.... did Hudler do that much damage and same with sammy...? I know franzen really didnt start flying high and really finding the net until the last 20 games or so.... I dont know why but I still think this team is a deeper team until you hit our goaltending...

There are probably a lot of people that disagree with me... and any input on this would be amazing... because quite frankly I dont understand it besides that fact that the team just needs to start gelling and the new guys need to get the systems down to a T.....

Maybe im still just being extremely optimistic... but I think we still have a great team in front of us and with our core and additions I think we have a great chance to be heading deep into the playoffs again... especially when franzen gets back and depending on the duration of his IR I guess there is room that it takes away some of his Cap hit so we might be able to one one more piece..?

Yes, a lot of our guys are struggling... but I still believe this team is possibly better on paper then the 08 Cup team.... besides the goaltending... If I'm missing any key pieces from the cup year please inform me....

Crash...

[Guest CaliWingsNut]

I dont lose any respect with Devellano for stating this... because right now the way we are playing and such its true.... My only thing that confuses me is why is this seasons team considered such a down fall... Yes last year we had a monster of a team, but Im more looking at the year that we won the cup....? I know from that year we lost Hudler, Sammy, Lilja, Hasek, and now Franzen.... Is there anybody else im missing... thats where I get confused did Hasek really make that big of an impact that season in net.... did Hudler do that much damage and same with sammy...? I know franzen really didnt start flying high and really finding the net until the last 20 games or so.... I dont know why but I still think this team is a deeper team until you hit our goaltending...

There are probably a lot of people that disagree with me... and any input on this would be amazing... because quite frankly I dont understand it besides that fact that the team just needs to start gelling and the new guys need to get the systems down to a T.....

Maybe im still just being extremely optimistic... but I think we still have a great team in front of us and with our core and additions I think we have a great chance to be heading deep into the playoffs again... especially when franzen gets back and depending on the duration of his IR I guess there is room that it takes away some of his Cap hit so we might be able to one one more piece..?

Yes, a lot of our guys are struggling... but I still believe this team is possibly better on paper then the 08 Cup team.... besides the goaltending... If I'm missing any key pieces from the cup year please inform me....

Crash...

Yes... lets assume the rest of the league has been asleep for 2 years.

Yes I'm a sarcastic *******.

[under_par_00 45]

Yes... lets assume the rest of the league has been asleep for 2 years.

Yes I'm a sarcastic *******.

That's exactly the reason that the Wings are struggling. There is a lot of young talent spread throughout the league now, much more so than 2 years ago when the Wings won the cup. This, plus the fact that the Wings havn't added any young, talented players that can make an impact, is the reason we have the record we have, and are struggling to find wins. Leino is the closest thing we have.

It seems like these last few years have produced incredibly deep drafts, unfortunately the Wings havn't been able to take advantage with any low first round picks.

Edited October 27, 2009 by under_par_00

[dmax19007 0]

That's exactly the reason that the Wings are struggling. There is a lot of young talent spread throughout the league now, much more so than 2 years ago when the Wings won the cup. This, plus the fact that the Wings havn't added any young, talented players that can make an impact, is the reason we have the record we have, and are struggling to find wins. Leino is the closest thing we have.

It seems like these last few years have produced incredibly deep drafts, unfortunately the Wings havn't been able to take advantage with any low first round picks.

Okay what about names like Helm and Franzen? They helped carry us through the playoffs when we won the cup in '08. Without Franzen some of our overtime wins wouldnt have happened! We need more players to step up andh help carry this team!

[DEVILSWATERBOY 10]

I am true blue Wings fan and I do have to say they have been on a hell of a run for the last 15 years

and all they had to do is plug replacements, well maybe it is time for are rebuilding years if that means just making the playoffs

then so be it. But in saying that keep the team competitive so we can enjoy a good hockey game win or loose they are my team .

[SuperCalaFilppulastic! 34]

It's kind of funny when someone posted on here saying they wouldn't be surprised if the Wings missed the playoffs...

and 2 weeks later, Jimmy D is sort of saying the same thing. Their GOAL is to contend and make the playoffs. Essentially, that is the most he expects our team to achieve... funny!

Well, I'm in for the long haul.

[Buppy 1,720]

It's kind of funny when someone posted on here saying they wouldn't be surprised if the Wings missed the playoffs...

and 2 weeks later, Jimmy D is sort of saying the same thing. Their GOAL is to contend and make the playoffs. Essentially, that is the most he expects our team to achieve... funny!

Well, I'm in for the long haul.

A few weeks ago, Franzen was healthy. Still, even without Franzen I'll be surprised if we miss the playoffs.

Nor, I think, is your interpretation of Devallano's comments accurate.

[FinRedWing 172]

He's at it again:

Wings' Devellano: Miracle needed for home ice

linky