Filppula out 6-8 Weeks

[gcom007 1,465]

I'm guessing you're referring to what I said in the GDT, just to clarify I meant Flip was looking like our best player just in this game, I didn't mean all season so far.

No, plenty have said it, even Babcock a week or two ago.

[brett 1,029]

well if you guys saw babs split up dats and z tonight and thats when the goals started...i wouldnt mind seeing holland making a move..wouldnt mind seeing leino going..he hasnt impressed me thus far

[The Mule 0]

Horrible news.

Pull the trigger, Kenny.

[ComradeWasabi 109]

Bad, bad news. I don't doubt the Wings' ability to pull through and perform, but we certainly aren't going to be any better off without Flip.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

It could happen. It's going to be interesting to see what they end up doing. I'm thinking that they might wait until after the road trip to do anything though.

I certainly don't think we're screwed. I'm not panicking at all. It's not a good thing to lose a guy like Flip, but it's not a back-breaker either. It's not like we're losing a lot of offense and lately, he hasn't exactly been outstanding defensively lately. What's his plus/minus after this game? -6? I'm hoping not having him in the lineup for awhile will show Babcock how best to use the other guys and when Flip's back, maybe we can get to using him better than we have.

To be -6 with 2 goals and six points and apparently be our best player thus far this season proves that something is off.

I agree.

Things are looking more ominous every day, though.

[gcom007 1,465]

well if you guys saw babs split up dats and z tonight and thats when the goals started...i wouldnt mind seeing holland making a move..wouldnt mind seeing leino going..he hasnt impressed me thus far

I want to see Leino play with some other guys. The only reason I thought it was good the Flip went down for what I thought was maybe just a game or two at first was to get Leino out from that 3rd line. He needs to spend some time playing with other guys to see what he can get going. Flip and Leino are comfy-cozy together and it reads well in a paper, but neither were producing much offense. Flip's never had the hands, but Leino does. It'll be good to see him mixed in at other places.

And P.S. He's a damn rookie. It'd be LUDICROUS to move him at this point.

[rage 24]

Thing is, even if the we were to make a trade that player would not be allowed to be on the rostor once Franzen returned.

Then what?

[gcom007 1,465]

I agree.

Things are looking more ominous every day, though.

Yeah, but at the same time, we just came up with an incredibly impressive comeback effort without Flip. I think it'd be safe to give it a bit of time and see how it goes. If we start winning, there's really no rush to make a move. We're 11 games in and it's still not even November. The longer we can hold out the better. Another positive is that at least Flip and Franzen out gives us a lot of cap relief to get creative if we need to be and perhaps make a bigger splash or a couple more moderate ones. I just really think we need more time to see what this team will do.

Howard needs and deserves more time but we could need to make a move there.

Lilja is still a wild-card that could be huge for the defense.

And while I think we're learning that this team can still score goals, perhaps another solid goal scorer might make more sense say if Howard proves himself down the stretch and Lilja returns and the D shapes up.

The longer we wait, the closer we get to the end, the more accurately we can target the needs that will make the biggest difference in the post-season when it matters.

[gcom007 1,465]

Thing is, even if the we were to make a trade that player would not be allowed to be on the rostor once Franzen returned.

Then what?

Why?

[sureWhyNot 19]

In other news Tatar had a great night tonight-- posting his first AHL goal. He's 1-1-2 in 4 AHL games so far. That's pretty good for an 18 kid playing against men.

Gosh, a part of me just wants to see him brought up. Before I go any further I will admit I know that there is absolutely, positively zero chance of it happening - and for good reason.

But I look around at rosters this year and see all these young kids - Matt Duchene, Ryan O'Reilly, Michael Del Zotto, Evander Kane, Drew Doughty, Tyler Myers, and so on.

Again I know this isn't going to happen, or am arguing that it should - because it definitely is not good for a guy playing his first season in North America and who is so young. But part of me is curious of what would happen or what he could accomplish- if anything.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Shanahan anyone?

Maybe now Kenny's opening his eyes to Shanny?

[Aussie_Wing 354]

I feel sick, this news has me feeling absolutely shattered. Can't even begin to express my disappointment.

If Ritola gets a shot that will be the only good news to come from this awful news.

[rage 24]

Why?

IDK, but pretty sure that is how the cap works and we'd be over the cap if we added more payroll once Frazen and Flip is back.

It'd work for the time until Frazen came back.

At least that's what I gathered from the Franzen thread.

Drake......isn't that right??

[gcom007 1,465]

IDK, but pretty sure that is how the cap works and we'd be over the cap if we added more payroll once Frazen and Flip is back.

It'd work for the time until Frazen came back.

At least that's what I gathered from the Franzen thread.

Drake......isn't that right??

Pretty sure when guys are on LTIR that their salaries don't count against the cap and it's all daily. That's how teams make trades for guys with huge salaries at the deadline because they may not have the room to swallow $7 million all year, but they have the room to pay the $2 million or so left for the year. But meanwhile, every day Flip and Franzen are on LTIR, they're not on the salary cap clock so we have that much more room to play with.

[gcom007 1,465]

IDK, but pretty sure that is how the cap works and we'd be over the cap if we added more payroll once Frazen and Flip is back.

It'd work for the time until Frazen came back.

At least that's what I gathered from the Franzen thread.

Drake......isn't that right??

http://www.letsgowings.com/salarychart/index.php

Refer to the "days" column and how it relates to the "active hit" column.

[rage 24]

Pretty sure when guys are on LTIR that their salaries don't count against the cap and it's all daily. That's how teams make trades for guys with huge salaries at the deadline because they may not have the room to swallow $7 million all year, but they have the room to pay the $2 million or so left for the year. But meanwhile, every day Flip and Franzen are on LTIR, they're not on the salary cap clock so we have that much more room to play with.

Right, but only until those guys come off the LTIR. Then you have to be cap compliment again, and you can't do that by added more salary (the new player) when the Wings would already be at the Cap Limit as we were when we started the season.

??

[rage 24]

http://www.letsgowings.com/salarychart/index.php

Refer to the "days" column and how it relates to the "active hit" column.

I'm totally lost. I just don't get it.

At first I thought that what you are saying is true, but then a whole debate took place in the Franzen thread and it was decided that the way I am seeing it now is the way it actually works.

Isn't that what we decided Drake???

[gcom007 1,465]

Right, but only until those guys come off the LTIR. Then you have to be cap compliment again, and you can't do that by added more salary (the new player) when the Wings would already be at the Cap Limit as we were when we started the season.

??

No, because agian, it's all daily. Look at the chart. The cap number is what their average cap hit is based on their contract. It's an average of the total contract value divided by the years. That's broken down by days. Every day you're active your daily salary based on your cap hit as adding to your active hit. Typically, say for Flip, he never goes on LTIR and his hit will eventually be 3,000,000. But now they're not going to be adding that daily hit to the active hit for 6-8 weeks. The active hit is all that matters at the end of the day.

That's why everyone was so pissed at the Ducks with Niedermeyer because your cap hit doesn't count while you're suspended so basically many felt they "cheated" because they would've been over the cap if he was active all year. And again, that's how teams pull off the deadline deals. Active hit is what matters.

[rage 24]

No, because agian, it's all daily. Look at the chart. The cap number is what their average cap hit is based on their contract. It's an average of the total contract value divided by the years. That's broken down by days. Every day you're active your daily salary based on your cap hit as adding to your active hit. Typically, say for Flip, he never goes on LTIR and his hit will eventually be 3,000,000. But now they're not going to be adding that daily hit to the active hit for 6-8 weeks. The active hit is all that matters at the end of the day.

That's why everyone was so pissed at the Ducks with Niedermeyer because your cap hit doesn't count while you're suspended so basically many felt they "cheated" because they would've been over the cap if he was active all year. And again, that's how teams pull off the deadline deals. Active hit is what matters.

Cool man! I'll take you at your word!

So I bet we could really take on some salary if we wanted to.

Thanks for clearing this up for me and anyone else reading this!

[robb himself 143]

lets bring Shanny back for one last hoorah! He still has gas left in the tank and we could probably use his goals.

Get it done Kenny

[Drake_Marcus 890]

I want to see Leino play with some other guys. The only reason I thought it was good the Flip went down for what I thought was maybe just a game or two at first was to get Leino out from that 3rd line. He needs to spend some time playing with other guys to see what he can get going. Flip and Leino are comfy-cozy together and it reads well in a paper, but neither were producing much offense. Flip's never had the hands, but Leino does. It'll be good to see him mixed in at other places.

And P.S. He's a damn rookie. It'd be LUDICROUS to move him at this point.

Agreed. It'd be retarded to say "hey our very promising young forward's been cold for 6 games... let's dump him."

Leino's here to stay guys. He's a frigging rookie-- he'll float from looking great to looking poor throughout the season because that's what rookies do. Anyone who's given up on him at this point or even started to think about that just doesn't know hockey.

It's tough to find soft hands or great vision-- Leino has both.

Regardless, Leino should be up with Dats or Z for an extended period to get him going. He just needs to get a goal and he'll heat up again. Confidence is a huge factor for NHL rookies.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

IDK, but pretty sure that is how the cap works and we'd be over the cap if we added more payroll once Frazen and Flip is back.

It'd work for the time until Frazen came back.

At least that's what I gathered from the Franzen thread.

Drake......isn't that right??

Yeah, from what I've read LTIR time doesn't accumulate cap cash. I used to think it did but apparently that's not how it works. So once Franzen comes back his cap space disappears. Basically the point is that you can't have a team with a roster that's worth more than the cap max at any point. So once Franzen comes back his replacement has to go.

If Franzen were supposed to be out until the playoffs it'd make sense to pick someone up since there is no cap in the playoffs, but he's due back any time from the first week of February onwards.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

No, because agian, it's all daily. Look at the chart. The cap number is what their average cap hit is based on their contract. It's an average of the total contract value divided by the years. That's broken down by days. Every day you're active your daily salary based on your cap hit as adding to your active hit. Typically, say for Flip, he never goes on LTIR and his hit will eventually be 3,000,000. But now they're not going to be adding that daily hit to the active hit for 6-8 weeks. The active hit is all that matters at the end of the day.

That's why everyone was so pissed at the Ducks with Niedermeyer because your cap hit doesn't count while you're suspended so basically many felt they "cheated" because they would've been over the cap if he was active all year. And again, that's how teams pull off the deadline deals. Active hit is what matters.

This is how I used to think too, but apparently LTIR doesn't remove the player's hit from the cap it only allows the team to find a replacement valued up to the original player's cap hit.

Niedermeyer was suspended, so that's a whole different situation than LTIR.

[Lazerbeam 13]

We need to trade for a GOALIE--Now! more than ever!! If we can find a goalie that can at least stop the every day Beachball, then we can do well, even with all the Offense we have been losing to IR.

[gcom007 1,465]

Yeah, from what I've read LTIR time doesn't accumulate cap cash. I used to think it did but apparently that's not how it works. So once Franzen comes back his cap space disappears. Basically the point is that you can't have a team with a roster that's worth more than the cap max at any point. So once Franzen comes back his replacement has to go.

If Franzen were supposed to be out until the playoffs it'd make sense to pick someone up since there is no cap in the playoffs, but he's due back any time from the first week of February onwards.

How does that account for teams who make deadline deals? If you went by the cap number, more often than not they'd be over the limit. And again, the Ducks signed guys up the the cap and then Niedermeyer comes back as well as Selanne. Niedermayer wasn't counting against the cap because he was suspended and Selanne signed as a free agent late in the game and thus they only had part of the yearly contract active on the cap hit. Maybe I'm totally forgetting something, but I thought that's how it worked.