James Wizniewski Suspended

[dat's sick 1,002]

It surprises me how many people agree with the suspension because of an elbow.

Was that suspension worthy?

That's probably one of the worst hits Kronwall has done. Definitely leaves his feet. As for suspension I don't think so, just because he doesn't catch very much of him and also to me it doesn't really look like he hits Carter in the face with his elbow. It looks like Kronner's shoulder is what catches Carter's face, but it's hard to tell from the replays.

Edited November 3, 2009 by dat's sick

[Wings_Fan_In_Exile 3]

Forearm to head, I agree with two games. But, I also dislike Wizniewski.

Edited November 3, 2009 by Wings_Fan_In_Exile

[stevkrause 1,247]

Yes, 8 years AAA, 2 years high school, 3 years ECHL/USHL.

I think there is a clear deference between incidental contact to the head and intentional elbow to the head. In this case I think it's a miss timed hit that should not be suspended as I don't think it was intentional. I hate using example of hits in the 80's, but hits like these would of been praised and put on a highlite reel not suspended. I have a fear that if they keep suspending clean hard working players for these 'dirty' hits it's going to impact the integrity of the game. Players will start letting up on open ice hits because of how hard the are to line up, players will keep turning backs and get injured on the boards etc. Just my two cents.

alright, so you have a clear understanding of the game and how it's actually played on the ice then, that's all I wanted to know - but in the same vein, can you honestly say that you wouldn't have a problem with a hit like this if it were on a teammate or yourself? I spent most of my 12+ years when I played(B, BB, A - I don't count adult leagues now) as a physical presence first and foremost and prided myself on my physical game, but also would like to think I always did it with respect... if a hit like that were dropped on a teammate of mine - I would have a serious problem with it.

So really what it comes down to here, is the interpretation of intent... I saw this as an intentional elbow by Wiz BECAUSE he mis-timed the hit and rather than let up on it, he threw the elbow... if you did not see this as intentional, then by your interpretation, I agree - no suspension.

The fact is, the respect in the game is disappearing and this is worrisome - there is very little accountability anymore and players are not learning at a young age to respect their opponents while still playing hard and that they WILL be accountable for their actions - also, players are not being taught well enough on how to protect themselves soon enough... but that's a whole different topic...

really what it comes down to, is intent, which I think we can ALL agree, the NHL needs a better board to determine this and NEEDS to be consistent on the calls/suspensions...

Edited November 3, 2009 by stevkrause

[Carman 387]

I've had my fair share of on ice injuries(3 concussions, countless separated shoulders, who knows what else). I'm only about 5'8" and about 175 soaking wet, I've been lined up and on a receiving end of plenty of big hits(poor little guys always getting on peoples lists ).

I really think it comes down to how fast paced a play like that happens to be on the ice. When you start slowing footage down you'll see much more then is really there like in the Wisniewski hit there wasn't even a pentalty called until after Doan got to the bench and the outcome was assessed. The players cannot make perfect contact every time, and they will hit higher then they wanted to. If we suspend them for every hit like this then I can really see it effect the passion of the physical aspect of hockey.

For example this is an intentional.

Lining up a player-Blind siding him- and being able to aim for the head.

That too me is a hit deserving of a suspension.

Now the Wisniewski hit.

Lining up a player with his head down- Did not blindside him, Doan knew he was there- Aiming for a check and getting higher then he wanted.

I think there is a clear difference between the two, one was a intentional dirty play, and one was a unintentional "dirty" hit that happened to get high.

Also I don't think respect is a problem in the game at all, most of the controversial hits in today's game would of been highlights in the 80's.

I think one issue is the padding is getting a lot like football pads and need to be made differently, players seem to play like they are invincible with some of the pads in today's game. So I do agree something needs to be done to start avoiding all these injuries that seem to be happening this year especially.

Edited November 3, 2009 by Carman

[OsGOD 3]

For example this is an intentional.

Doesn't help that the EMS people...... DROPPED MIKE at the 1:18 mark!!!!! lmao... they should be suspended as well. Maybe they felt he wasn't hurt enough!

Edited November 3, 2009 by OsGOD

[Carman 387]

Doesn't help that the EMS people...... DROPPED MIKE!!!!! lmao... they should be suspended as well. Maybe he wasn't hurt enough!

I feel so bad for laughing at that video, but I can't help it

[StormJH1 231]

Okay, two responses:

(1) I thought the hit was clean and should not have been a suspension. Richards damn near kills a guy from his blind-side, and here was an identical hit face-to-face with no momentum built up, how does THIS one get a supsension?

(2) I completely disagree that there is a double-standard AGAINST the Ducks whereby they receive more penalties/suspensions. I think it's exactly the opposite. The Ducks over the past few years (at least during the Pronger era) established a reputation as a team that plays physical and pushes the boundaries of the rules. Therefore, if Pronger or Getzlaf made a questionable play, the refs more often than not let it go because it's "just the Ducks being the Ducks". If some Euro like Datsyuk or Zetterberg made the same play, the refs would be stunned and appalled and throw them in the box for 2 minutes for sure, b/c it looks "out of character". That's my view on penalties.

I'm not familiary with a systemic bias relating to suspensions against the Ducks, but honestly, I think the whole thing is out of whack, and it's based more on player reputation and perceived intent than what team you play for. There probably is a bias favoring stars, but other than the Mike Richards thing, I can't think of tons of examples where superstar players commit clear suspendable offenses and get away with it.

[Buppy 1,720]

The forearm to me screams 'intent'. So I agree with the suspension.

The Richards hit I think is an example of a misplaced, unintentional hit to the head. Worth a penalty, but no suspension.

If that "effects the passion of the physical aspect of hockey" then so be it. These are human beings, not characters in a TV show. You have no right to ask that they take needless risks with their health for your entertainment.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

So really what it comes down to here, is the interpretation of intent... I saw this as an intentional elbow by Wiz BECAUSE he mis-timed the hit and rather than let up on it, he threw the elbow...

This is the heart of it for me. Wiz didn't have him lined up right, and he threw a forearm. Did he mean to clip him in the head/throat? Maybe not, but it was a bad decision and deserves punishment. If you don't have him lined up, you don't flare a knee, throw a forearm to make contact.

I think one issue is the padding is getting a lot like football pads and need to be made differently, players seem to play like they are invincible with some of the pads in today's game. So I do agree something needs to be done to start avoiding all these injuries that seem to be happening this year especially.

To me that video of hits from the 80s only proves how the hitting today has changed. They're showing highlights of the biggest hitters from that era, and there's no jumping into the hit, no leaving the feet. I saw a couple questionable knee hits, but most of them didn't involve a blow to the head in any way (from the check at least).

Today guys are throwing themselves into checks, getting elbows way up, and slamming them with shoulder pads. I absolutely agree that they need to do something about the hard shell football style pads guys are wearing. If players all wore shoulder pads like Shanny, they'd think twice about launching shoulder first into a guy's skull.

Man, watching the 80s hitting makes me realize that there's been a slow creep in the game as to what constitutes a charge. These guys all have their skates on the ice at contact and most of the time through it. By that standard, just about every hit Kronner throws is a charge because he explodes (if you're a wings fan) or jumps (if you're not) into them.

Edited November 3, 2009 by haroldsnepsts

[Carman 387]

The forearm to me screams 'intent'. So I agree with the suspension.

The Richards hit I think is an example of a misplaced, unintentional hit to the head. Worth a penalty, but no suspension.

If that "effects the passion of the physical aspect of hockey" then so be it. These are human beings, not characters in a TV show. You have no right to ask that they take needless risks with their health for your entertainment.

I'm not saying all dirty hits need to be legalized. Knee to knees, obvious elbows, checking from behind need to be enforced. I've just seen Luke Richardson do this his whole career and people praised him for it.

No one was against that hit on Granato when that happened. Not even a scrum after it. So if you think that the Wisniewski hit was a needless risk, yet the Mike Richard wasn't I have no way to understand your point. In my opinion both should not be suspensions, they are just normal hockey plays that had an unfortunate result.

[stevkrause 1,247]

This is the heart of it for me. Wiz didn't have him lined up right, and he threw a forearm. Did he mean to clip him in the head/throat? Maybe not, but it was a bad decision and deserves punishment. If you don't have him lined up, you don't flare a knee, throw a forearm to make contact.

To me that video of hits from the 80s only proves how the hitting today has changed. They're showing highlights of the biggest hitters from that era, and there's no jumping into the hit, no leaving the feet. I saw a couple questionable knee hits, but most of them didn't involve a blow to the head in any way (from the check at least).

Today guys are throwing themselves into checks, getting elbows way up, and slamming them with shoulder pads. I absolutely agree that they need to do something about the hard shell football style pads guys are wearing. If players all wore shoulder pads like Shanny, they'd think twice about launching shoulder first into a guy's skull.

Man, watching the 80s hitting makes me realize that there's been a slow creep in the game as to what constitutes a charge. These guys all have their skates on the ice at contact and most of the time through it. By that standard, just about every hit Kronner throws is a charge because he explodes (if you're a wings fan) or jumps (if you're not) into them.

and this is my exact point - just like when a guy sticks out a knee and blows a guys knee out - this needs to be removed from the game and punished when violated.

[Carman 387]

and this is my exact point - just like when a guy sticks out a knee and blows a guys knee out - this needs to be removed from the game and punished when violated.

Have you tried lining someone up on the open ice? When Wisniewski commited his forearm was in, he leaned out lost his balance and instinctively hit with the forearm. There is no way he could of let up in that situation, it's such a split second decision to commit to an open ice hit. We will see open ice hits disappear when you start enforcing these types of hits. Give the guy a penalty, it wasn't late he was trying to do his job in not letting Doan get around him, it wasn't a situation of retaliation or hatred for Doan just a simply play that happened to have the wrong outcome.

Knee to knees are a lot easier to control, they happen when you don't pick up your back leg and too me are much easier to enforce considering the circumstances that surround them.

[stevkrause 1,247]

I've had my fair share of on ice injuries(3 concussions, countless separated shoulders, who knows what else). I'm only about 5'8" and about 175 soaking wet, I've been lined up and on a receiving end of plenty of big hits(poor little guys always getting on peoples lists ).

I really think it comes down to how fast paced a play like that happens to be on the ice. When you start slowing footage down you'll see much more then is really there like in the Wisniewski hit there wasn't even a pentalty called until after Doan got to the bench and the outcome was assessed. The players cannot make perfect contact every time, and they will hit higher then they wanted to. If we suspend them for every hit like this then I can really see it effect the passion of the physical aspect of hockey.

For example this is an intentional.

Lining up a player-Blind siding him- and being able to aim for the head.

That too me is a hit deserving of a suspension.

Now the Wisniewski hit.

Lining up a player with his head down- Did not blindside him, Doan knew he was there- Aiming for a check and getting higher then he wanted.

I think there is a clear difference between the two, one was a intentional dirty play, and one was a unintentional "dirty" hit that happened to get high.

Also I don't think respect is a problem in the game at all, most of the controversial hits in today's game would of been highlights in the 80's.

I think one issue is the padding is getting a lot like football pads and need to be made differently, players seem to play like they are invincible with some of the pads in today's game. So I do agree something needs to be done to start avoiding all these injuries that seem to be happening this year especially.

I think it all comes down to the fact that Wiz did not need to throw that hit, just like knee-to-knees - out of position, give up the hit - simple as that.

I agree whole heatedly that the intentional ones should be punished more severely AND(not to beat a dead horse) consistency needs to be there with the calls - They need to suspend fairly, evenly and for across the board, regardless of the player throwing the hit... I'm not sure who mentioned it as an example, but Richards should have been suspended for 5 games for his hit on Booth, whereas I would have been fine with Wiz only getting 1 game, but he still deserved one nonetheless.

It all comes down to intent... and until the league gets a disciplinary board in there that isn't a joke and forces players to respect one another - all of these offenses (the minor and the severe) are going to continue to occur...

as a side note... don't get me started on the shoulder pads.......

[stevkrause 1,247]

Have you tried lining someone up on the open ice? When Wisniewski commited his forearm was in, he leaned out lost his balance and instinctively hit with the forearm. There is no way he could of let up in that situation, it's such a split second decision to commit to an open ice hit. We will see open ice hits disappear when you start enforcing these types of hits. Give the guy a penalty, it wasn't late he was trying to do his job in not letting Doan get around him, it wasn't a situation of retaliation or hatred for Doan just a simply play that happened to have the wrong outcome.

Knee to knees are a lot easier to control, they happen when you don't pick up your back leg and too me are much easier to enforce considering the circumstances that surround them.

I disagree - he could have thrown the fists/forearms to his chest, not his throat/face... and yes, I have lined up guys in open ice MANY times, successfully and unsuccessfully and I have made mistakes too and I threw a couple questionable hits as well that I would have taken back if I could...

Sometimes decisions are poor in that split second and I'm not saying he could have avoided it 100%, but if you get in a car accident because you made a poor split second decision, but were still at fault, do they just not give you the ticket, because it happened so quick? No - you get the ticket.

My point is, he COULD have done differently - it was not the end of the world and his suspension shouldn't be excessive, but the punishment should still be handed out.

Edited November 3, 2009 by stevkrause

[The Mule 0]

there is no way that hit to the head was on purpose...but i have no prob with the suspension will hopefully make him be more careful..

and ducks got a bad name from pronger.... he was dirty.. and the one time scotty elbowed dats (i think it was) that was bad lol

What about the time Rob Niedermayer and some other idiot smashed Homer's face into the glass from behind?

[Carman 387]

I disagree - he could have thrown the fists/forearms to his chest, not his throat/face... and yes, I have lined up guys in open ice MANY times, successfully and unsuccessfully and I have made mistakes too and I threw a couple questionable hits as well that I would have taken back if I could...

Sometimes decisions are poor in that split second and I'm not saying he could have avoided it 100%, but if you get in a car accident because you made a poor split second decision, but were still at fault, do they just not give you the ticket, because it happened so quick? No - you get the ticket.

My point is, he COULD have done differently - it was not the end of the world and his suspension shouldn't be excessive, but the punishment should still be handed out.

Alright and my point is they should focus on malicious unsportsmanlike plays, not plays that are only a penalty because of slow motion cameras and looking at the outcome. I look at hits like that, like the baseball strike zone. Sure they could double check every single pitch and make sure it's a ball or strike, but they don't. I feel it should be the regarding hockey checks, let the refs decide in real time whether or not the play was deserving of a penalty. To me if there can be an argument on whether a hit was dirty it shouldn't be a suspension most of the time.

A dirty hit should be practically seen by any hockey fan and be agreed on saying "wow that player really knew what he was doing and was intently trying to injure another player."

We'll agree to disagree

[stevkrause 1,247]

Alright and my point is they should focus on malicious unsportsmanlike plays, not plays that are only a penalty because of slow motion cameras and looking at the outcome. I look at hits like that, like the baseball strike zone. Sure they could double check every single pitch and make sure it's a ball or strike, but they don't. I feel it should be the regarding hockey checks, let the refs decide in real time whether or not the play was deserving of a penalty. To me if there can be an argument on whether a hit was dirty it shouldn't be a suspension most of the time.

A dirty hit should be practically seen by any hockey fan and be agreed on saying "wow that player really knew what he was doing and was intently trying to injure another player."

We'll agree to disagree

I agree on the bolded section above 100% - I guess we're just looking at this specific event differently, because otherwise I agree... I was actually blown away that they didn't call a penalty on the hit in the first place...

I guess my biggest problem, is the lack of consistency by the disciplinary board and refs alike - they need to fix this and get continuity across the board, so players CLEARLY know whats wrong and not "only wrong if you get caught, it's late in the game, or the playoffs" and then are punished accordingly...

[Vladifan 680]

Forearm to head, I agree with two games. But, I also dislike Wizniewski.

I haven't viewed the hit, but I think the Ducks have gotten away with stuff short of murder for way too long. And I don't like Wisniewski either, and I really, REALLY dislike the Ducks for their cheapshot play. (And the fact that the refs don't call them enough on that crap.) So, fair or not fair, I would like to think this sends a message to the Ducks, albeit probably short-lived, that finally somebody is watching them.

[jollymania 162]

It was a botched hit, nothing intentionally dirty i don't think. probably ejection from the game and a fine would have sufficed.

[Yzerfan1999 81]

elbows clearly up, shot to the head - suspension.

my only problem is, the league needs to stop being such a Mickey Mouse league and get some damn consistency... ALL players, stars or not, should face suspensions for clear head s***s and elbows...

and to anyone saying that this is "part of the game" - bulls***.

You can play hard, skate hard and hit DAMN hard while still respecting your opponent and not trying to hurt them... this cheapshot bulls*** is what has marred the NHL from day one...

I agree - though it looks to me like more of a forearm shiver to the face. Wizniewski lunged at him with his arms up - not a clean hockey hit, in fact I don't recall seeing such an awkward looking hit in a long time.

These hit threads are getting comical. There are always the group that say its dirty, and always the group - no matter how savage of a head shot it is, claim its a good hockey hit.

Just make headshots illegal already so we can stop talking about it.