11/7 GDT: Red Wings 1 at Maple Leafs 5

[Pucks 66]

[Aussie_Wing 354]

Huh? Did you watch Q before he was waived? He was horrendously bad. FOR 18 MONTHS STRAIGHT. He got a wake up slap in the face when he was waived and he responded with the kind of play the Wings asked from him earlier.

[13dangledangle 968]

How do you know when a game is out of reach? Lebda's on the ice in the last 2 mins.

lol now that's funny! Really funny!

I had to work tonite but as I was cooking on the line I kept checking my phone for game updates and damn it if the T dot wasn't seemingly kicking the sh&t out of our poor little detroit powerhouse! As my boss is a leaves fan he was loving it...I however only got to see about 4 minutes of it but in that 4 was Clears 100th, congrats big guy! The rest sucked, the entire team looked like they were playing in slow motion looking for a pretty play( minus helm of course), instead of flying like wings are suppost to do! Dats was skating like Larry Murphy with the puck for god sakes, not to mention when he fell trying to deke someone!!! Anyway I'm too mad now and have to stop typing now but...? Why must we loose to Toronto ( I live an hour away) every ******* time?

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Huh? Did you watch Q before he was waived? He was horrendously bad. FOR 18 MONTHS STRAIGHT. He got a wake up slap in the face when he was waived and he responded with the kind of play the Wings asked from him earlier.

Yes, I did watch him. That's revisionist history to say he was horrendously bad for 18 months straight, even when you put it in all caps.

He wasn't horrendously bad. He played like a rookie with little NHL experience, which he was.

Here's some info from a more objective source, Red Wings prospect tracker, during some of the time you're speaking of.

2006-07:

* Battled injuries (shoulder, concussion) and had inconsistent sophomore AHL year in Grand Rapids.

* Offensive numbers dropped from rookie year (65-4-18-22, 126 PIMs, minus-7, 121 shots).

* Earned six NHL games with Detroit, scoring first career goal and averaging 11:25 of ice.

* Injuries to Mathieu Schneider and Niklas Kronwall saw Quincey get NHL call-up in playoffs.

* Responded with strong play (13-0-0-0, 11:25 of ice time, seven blocked shots, 11 hits).

2007-08:

* Appeared in four pre-season games with Detroit (4-0-1-1-2) before breaking wrist.

* Missed more than a month before being reassigned to Grand Rapids (AHL).

* Rebounded from a slow start to play excellent hockey from January on (66-5-15-20).

* Led Grand Rapids in penalty minutes (149), posted a minus-6 rating and fired 144 shots on goal.

* First defenceman called up to Red Wings in February to fill in for injuries.

* Averaged 13:58 of ice time, including penalty-killing duties, in six NHL games.

* Sent back to Grand Rapids before Jonathan Ericsson, who was called up after.

* Responded with terrific stretch run (14-3-7-10, plus-1, 57 PIMs).

* Called up to Detroit to serve as Black Ace (spare who doesn't play) during NHL playoffs.

* Signed two-year contract to carry him through 2009-10.

2008-09:

* Appeared in six NHL pre-season games with Red Wings (6-0-0-0, 10 shots).

* Didn't win a roster spot and the Red Wings were unable to trade him.

* Placed on waivers and claimed by Los Angeles on Oct. 13.

http://www.redwingscentral.com/prospects/quincey.php

He didn't magically find all these abilities when the Wings got rid of him. It's funny to me how you don't find any of the decision makers in the Red Wings responsible for the loss of Quincey.

He may not have stood out enough, but they also missed something too. Not to mention painting themselves into a bad corner by keeping Chelios. So you can keep pretending that he was horrendous for a year and a half, but it's not true.

Edited November 8, 2009 by haroldsnepsts

[King Crane 289]

Mike Peca and Satan are still free agents right?

Yah. Kinda would want Satan, but he's charging 3.5 Mil and i think that would put us over the cap. Peca is alright and is at a relatively better 1.6 Mil price tag.

I think we should sign Hudler back

[Doc Holiday 0]

Enough with the Quincey bulls***.

He wasn't good enough when he needed to be, so he was gotten rid of. Bottom line.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Enough with the Quincey bulls***.

He wasn't good enough when he needed to be, so he was gotten rid of. Bottom line.

Sorry to break it to you, but you stating an opinion on the matter does not magically make it a fact, or a definitive enough answer to end the discussion.

On the contrary, as good as the Wings are at finding hidden talent, it's surprising that Quincey turned into the player he is, and worth discussing exactly what happened.

As I said to Drake, it's funny that people like yourself find no fault in the Wings management that put a player on waivers who last season played 20+ minutes a night and racked up 38 points, and now plays 25 minutes a night for Colorado and has 10 points in 17 games.

[RedWings Gone Wild 6]

Enough with the Quincey bulls***.

He wasn't good enough when he needed to be, so he was gotten rid of. Bottom line.

sooooo...... I guess I should put the time machine away.

[Datsook 0]

I'd like to quote my post from the buffalo game...

disgusting. i paid a lot of money for great seats to take my dad to a game and we drove a long way!! i want a written apology from someone!!

this is the third wings game i've been to...and they lose everytime.

They lose BIG TIME everytime also...ugh! i'll just stay home from now on.

Well guess what. SAME **** THING HAPPENED TO ME TONIGHT AGAIN!

It's like I'm a bad luck charm, I'm never going to go again!

[Doc Holiday 0]

Sorry to break it to you, but you stating an opinion on the matter does not magically make it a fact, or a definitive enough answer to end the discussion.

On the contrary, as good as the Wings are at finding hidden talent, it's surprising that Quincey turned into the player he is, and worth discussing exactly what happened.

As I said to Drake, it's funny that people like yourself find no fault in the Wings management that put a player on waivers who last season played 20+ minutes a night and racked up 38 points, and now plays 25 minutes a night for Colorado and has 10 points in 17 games.

It isn't worth discussing it every single time Lebda screws the pooch.

You honestly think Holland was thinking "well Quincey shows a lot of potential and had a good playoffs, so lets dump him for absolutely no reason!"?

If Quincey had shown what he has shown the past two seasons then he would have stayed. He didn't so he walked. He was unlikely to ever play 20+ minutes, so would he have even produced at that rate here? Unlikely. s*** happens. Quincey was one of those breaks.

Edited November 8, 2009 by Doc Holiday

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

It isn't worth discussing it every single time Lebda screws the pooch.

You honestly think Holland was thinking "well Quincey shows a lot of potential and had a good playoffs, so lets dump him for absolutely no reason!"?

If Quincey had shown what he has shown the past two seasons then he would have stayed. He didn't so he walked.

Yes, Holland and co. couldn't have made a mistake, therefore Quincey just didn't show anything. It's all Quincey's fault.

For the record, he didn't walk, they were forced to put him on waivers and he was picked up. You are grossly oversimplifying what happened.

[Doc Holiday 0]

Yes, Holland and co. couldn't have made a mistake, therefore Quincey just didn't show anything. It's all Quincey's fault.

For the record, he didn't walk, they were forced to put him on waivers and he was picked up. You are grossly oversimplifying what happened.

So you mean to tell me Quincey did outplay Lebda and Meech but Holland just missed it?

Agree to disagree then. Also no need to argue semantics. It's irrelevant.

[gcom007 1,465]

However it's not debatable, while Z and Pav are playing on the first PP unit together, our 2nd line is 100x better with Filppula than without. Filppula has looked great on the PP, deny this and THAT is absurd. He has more than half the power play points of Zetterberg with about half the PP time. I'm not saying he has been better than Zetterberg, but he's been great on the PP. Period.

Here's the thing though, and it boils down to consistency: by the end of the year, Zetterberg will be annihilating Flip in terms of average power play points proportional to power play time. Z got a real slow start this year as he basically didn't have a preseason and who knows how healthy he was even in Sweden. If not for the fact that it was important for him to play in those games being a Swedish superstar and all, he might have sat out some more.

And now I'm not one to complain about guys getting points or goals, as far as the raw numbers go and how it boils down in the plays, one of Flip's assists was as secondary as they come as the primary assist was as much of a non-factor. That was on the Williams point shot which really boils down to Williams making a great shot and hence a great play pretty much on his own accord. His other assist was certainly a great pass through the crease to Williams though. The goal that he scored wasn't exactly brilliant; wasn't it a deflection off of Kronwall's shot? A Holmstrom goal? Again, not complaining about getting a goal, but on 1 of his 3 points he was a guy who made the play to get a goal. The other two points, other guys made plays, though I give him credit for keeping that stick down in front of the net because as is clear, you never know what'll happen when a shot comes through.

Again, I'm not complaining about points and I'm not even saying we wouldn't be better off with him on the power play perhaps given our present situation, but trying to compare him to guys like Z and Franzen isn't going to pan out long run unless he proves far more long run. He hasn't proven that much in the short run let alone the long run and this year of all years, you cannot say it's because he's failed to get opportunities. He got the minutes once again and put up a few points, but especially when breaking down the actual points, I struggle to believe that the consistency would be there. I'm not looking to take his points away, but I think had he not been injured, I think that it's highly unlikely that he'd continue to put up power play numbers at such a pace. We'll see once he's back, but it's nothing I would put my money on.

And at the end of the day, despite getting more ice time than he's gotten at any point in his career, and despite the fact that so many claimed he had such a great start and the whole "Carhart Hardest Worker" thing or whatever it was, what's his point projection for the year should he have played 82 games at his current pace? 44 points. While projections are what they are, that's not really saying much for his "breakout year" considering he's getting so much ice time not to mention plenty of power play time as well.

Sorry. I really do like the guy and all, but I like Kirk Maltby too. That doesn't mean I expect him to put up 60 points and play great on the power play. We in Detroit of all places should know there's far more to measure a guy by than merely points. I've never knocked Flips character, work ethic, defensive ability, etc...I've knocked his offensive ability. I don't think it's there and he's done very, very little to prove me wrong. Again, get over it.

[stevie12 5]

I know we have a lot more problems to fix than goaltending, but heard some interesting talk come up on Biron ... he will be available via trade as soon as Dipietro comes off IR. For what its worth, he is a better goalie that what we've seen so far from ozzy and jimmy. Wouldn't mind getting him if the price was right.

Some of these goals being let in are just deflating to the team.

[gcom007 1,465]

Sorry to break it to you, but you stating an opinion on the matter does not magically make it a fact, or a definitive enough answer to end the discussion.

On the contrary, as good as the Wings are at finding hidden talent, it's surprising that Quincey turned into the player he is, and worth discussing exactly what happened.

As I said to Drake, it's funny that people like yourself find no fault in the Wings management that put a player on waivers who last season played 20+ minutes a night and racked up 38 points, and now plays 25 minutes a night for Colorado and has 10 points in 17 games.

"Hindsight: it's like foresight without a future."

I think there's a big difference in recognizing that management isn't perfect and thus not holding things like this against them. Again, it's blatantly obvious that he failed to show the Wings what he was capable of otherwise they wouldn't have let him go. They're not stupid. Part of not being perfect is not having a crystal ball.

Hell, maybe part of not being perfect just means that your Mike Babcock. Maybe Mike Babcock is generally a damn good coach, but maybe he drove Quincey nuts and thus Quincey was unable to put his game together for the Detroit Red Wings while Babcock was coach. Whether the Wings could see that or not, the bottom line is that Babcock's the coach and Quincey failed to do what he needed to in order to convince Babcock to give Ken a call and say, "I want Quincey on my team. Do what you have to do to make that happen."

I mean, honestly, what the hell do you want anyone to say? What do you want Holland and Babcock to say or do? They're not ignorant people. Quincey didn't do enough to prove what he was capable of. That's all that matters. Because again, maybe it really was as simple as the environment. Maybe he hated Babcock. Maybe he hated the idea of being so far behind some of the stars we had floating around. Maybe he was intimidated and scared s***less. It doesn't really matter why because whatever it was, he failed while he was here otherwise he'd still be here. The Wings have proven more than a few times that they will do all they can to give guys a chance to prove themselves.

If you're going to question the management for letting him go, ask what might've happened if he had stayed. Perhaps he would've floundered under the pressure. At the time, it was a far more likely outcome to predict than him becoming a 20-25 minute, 40 point scoring defenseman.

[gcom007 1,465]

I know we have a lot more problems to fix than goaltending, but heard some interesting talk come up on Biron ... he will be available via trade as soon as Dipietro comes off IR. For what its worth, he is a better goalie that what we've seen so far from ozzy and jimmy. Wouldn't mind getting him if the price was right.

Some of these goals being let in are just deflating to the team.

Maybe Jimmy. Not Ozzie. Osgood has played great at times but he's really only had one "bad" game, that being the 2 goal, 4 shot wonder. Every other game he maybe hasn't been great, but the team as a whole has been abyssmal. Not Biron, Brodeur, Luongo, not any goalie is going to change many outcomes when the rest of the team has been horrid. And Howard is a rookie who hasn't really played great but hasn't bombed enough to justify making a move at this point when we've got far more important areas that need work right now and minimal cap room to work with.

Something to consider about Osgood and goaltending in general...

Has Osgood ever missed the playoffs in his career? Even on the Islanders and Blues? No, and in fact, the Islanders were terrible before he came on board. The previous season they were among the worst if not the worst team in terms of record.

But here's a more telling question: has Luongo or Brodeur ever missed the playoffs? Yes.

Think about that a moment.

[Carman 387]

I'm not saying Osgood is bad, but the Islander's/Blues teams are not as bad as people make them sound.

01 and 02 Islanders had a very very good defense with Aucion/Hamirlik/Jonsson in a pretty awful divison.

and the 03/04 Blues had a very good team with a prime Tkachuk/Weight/Demitra/Pronger/Drake/Mellanby.

Also it's not like he carried them, Garth Snow had similar numbers on the Islanders and Brent Johnson/Reinhard Divis had similar stats although Osgood did play the majority of games for the blues in his second season.

All in all he is a very good goalie, but there is a reason he is only getting paid 1.450 million this year.

[gcom007 1,465]

I'm not saying Osgood is bad, but the Islander's/Blues teams are not as bad as people make them sound.

01 and 02 Islanders had a very very good defense with Aucion/Hamirlik/Jonsson in a pretty awful divison.

and the 03/04 Blues had a very good team with a prime Tkachuk/Weight/Demitra/Pronger/Drake/Mellanby.

Also it's not like he carried them, Garth Snow had similar numbers on the Islanders and Brent Johnson/Reinhard Divis had similar stats although Osgood did play the majority of games for the blues in his second season.

All in all he is a very good goalie, but there is a reason he is only getting paid 1.450 million this year.

There's also a reason why he would've won the Conn Smythe in June had we won the Cup. And another for why he's going to record his 400th win this season. And he's also won a couple Cups on his own steam as well...

And I'm not saying the Islanders and Blues were horrible at all, but they weren't the stacked Red Wings teams that people use to minimize Osgood's accomplishments. And furthermore, if you followed the press surrounding that 1st year Islanders team in particular, it's clear that many players on the team as well as those evil sports writers seemed to think that Osgood in many ways "carried" that team to success.

And Osgood could easily sign for $4-5 million with another team after his last two playoff outings, not to mention the All Star season he had when he signed that deal in which he was at the top of the league in all major goalie stats. The reason he's getting paid $1.45 million this year is because he's a class act and completely demonstrative of what it means to not only be a team guy, but to be a Detroit Red Wing. I don't think there are many guys who bleed for this team like Osgood, because he's been to hell and back with them. He's been shipped away only to return to still play second fiddle only to ascend to the top once again and outplay just about every other goaltender in the post-season the last two years.

Remember, Osgood was the one who stayed out in the hot sun signing autographs for fans for 3 hours after the Stanley Cup parade while the rest of the team was at Cheli's partying. The guy is a Detroit Red Wing to the core, he loves winning, he loves this team and he loves this city. That is why he makes $1.45 million a year. You can rip on his five whole all you want and flip-flop between loving him and hating him, but don't question his dedication and love for this team by suggesting that his salary is a reflection of the kind of goalie he is. It's not, at all. It is, however, an outstanding reflection of the kind of person he is.

Edited November 8, 2009 by gcom007

[Carman 387]

Oh I agree, I'm totally fine with how Osgood has played and I absolutely think he's a great team guy, I've just seen the whole argument with Islanders/Blues and just give a little different perspective. Plus it's late and I'm not all here and kinda went on a different tangent I suppose haha.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Dude I'm 100% right here. You just don't agree because you're obsessed with the prospects first and foremost. Prospects end up with an unfair advantage in your mind because you're so wrapped up in them. Tons of people like to think he was showing people up left right and centre but the fact remains that he played himself off the team. He didn't outplay his competitors and he failed to do so for a year and a half. As far as Holland was concerned at the time-- you can't keep betting on the horse in last place forever.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

"Hindsight: it's like foresight without a future."

I think there's a big difference in recognizing that management isn't perfect and thus not holding things like this against them. Again, it's blatantly obvious that he failed to show the Wings what he was capable of otherwise they wouldn't have let him go. They're not stupid. Part of not being perfect is not having a crystal ball.

Hell, maybe part of not being perfect just means that your Mike Babcock. Maybe Mike Babcock is generally a damn good coach, but maybe he drove Quincey nuts and thus Quincey was unable to put his game together for the Detroit Red Wings while Babcock was coach. Whether the Wings could see that or not, the bottom line is that Babcock's the coach and Quincey failed to do what he needed to in order to convince Babcock to give Ken a call and say, "I want Quincey on my team. Do what you have to do to make that happen."

I mean, honestly, what the hell do you want anyone to say? What do you want Holland and Babcock to say or do? They're not ignorant people. Quincey didn't do enough to prove what he was capable of. That's all that matters. Because again, maybe it really was as simple as the environment. Maybe he hated Babcock. Maybe he hated the idea of being so far behind some of the stars we had floating around. Maybe he was intimidated and scared s***less. It doesn't really matter why because whatever it was, he failed while he was here otherwise he'd still be here. The Wings have proven more than a few times that they will do all they can to give guys a chance to prove themselves.

If you're going to question the management for letting him go, ask what might've happened if he had stayed. Perhaps he would've floundered under the pressure. At the time, it was a far more likely outcome to predict than him becoming a 20-25 minute, 40 point scoring defenseman.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

[Rivalred 630]

Entire team stunk it up tonight... After 3 goals I was cheering for the Leafs.

[gcom007 1,465]

Entire team stunk it up tonight... After 3 goals I was cheering for the Leafs.

Yeah, honestly, I didn't really mind seeing the Leafs win. I kinda hate to see the Leafs play so poorly. It's a strange thing, but I just feel like some of these old teams, especially the Canadian ones, "need" to be among the better teams in the league. So I'll take the loss. We've played better lately. We didn't tonight. Oh well. I think we missed Eaves energy a bit. Not saying he was the difference, but it'll be good to get him back in the lineup.

And I like being able to say that. I think he's going to keep getting better and better as this season goes on especially now that he's got such a wide open opportunity. He's got the skills to make it happen and there's never been a better time or a better place to overcome the past few years it seems. I'm really rooting for him.

[aflac9262 211]

Another game, another injury. Story of the season thus far.

[The Mule 0]

Embarrassing effort, and we lost Willy to boot. Not exactly a happy camper right now.