BeeRYCE 2 Report post Posted November 9, 2009 Class of 2007 (Al MacInnis, Ron Francis, Scott Stevens, Mark Messier) or Class of 2009 (Steve Yzerman, Luc Robitaille, Brett Hull, Brian Leetch) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carman 387 Report post Posted November 9, 2009 Class of 2007 (Al MacInnis, Ron Francis, Scott Stevens, Mark Messier) or Class of 2009 (Steve Yzerman, Luc Robitaille, Brett Hull, Brian Leetch) Class of 09' in my opinion. Hard comparing 2 forwards/2 Defensemen to 3 Forwards/1 defensemen though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DMAC 25 18 Report post Posted November 9, 2009 thats kind of a tough one but i have to go with '09 class. it has yzerman, hull and robitaille in it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjlegend 155 Report post Posted November 9, 2009 Good one... hmm.... Yzerman > Messier Leetch >>> MacInnis Hull < Stevens Robitalle << Francis I'm slightly conflicted, but a good tiebreaker for me would be Lou Lamoriello >> Jim Gregory. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedWings Gone Wild 6 Report post Posted November 9, 2009 Always felt Luc was overrated and "lucky," as his nickname would imply, but I'd still have to go with the 09 class. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C-TownWing 0 Report post Posted November 9, 2009 Good one... hmm.... Yzerman > Messier Leetch >>> MacInnis Hull < Stevens Robitalle << Francis I'm slightly conflicted, but a good tiebreaker for me would be Lou Lamoriello >> Jim Gregory. Agree with all of this, with the slight possibility of flipping the Hull-Stevens one, or at least making it equal. MacInnis is one of the most overrated players ever, IMO, thanks to his shot. Balanced out by Ronnie Franchise, maybe the most underrated ever. 1-4/5, 2009 was stronger, and I think I'd say that even without three who won a Cup with the Wings in that class. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redwingfan19 293 Report post Posted November 9, 2009 messier is a d bag, mark messier leadership award my ass, that should be stevie's award. anyways 09 class hands down Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ozzie30 170 Report post Posted November 9, 2009 Good one... hmm.... Yzerman > Messier Leetch >>> MacInnis Hull < Stevens Robitalle << Francis I'm slightly conflicted, but a good tiebreaker for me would be Lou Lamoriello >> Jim Gregory. By this logic its 4> to 3<, the >'s have it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Lidstromboli Report post Posted November 9, 2009 Good one... hmm.... Yzerman > Messier Leetch >>> MacInnis Hull < Stevens Robitalle << Francis I'm slightly conflicted, but a good tiebreaker for me would be Lou Lamoriello >> Jim Gregory. is this a joke Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C-TownWing 0 Report post Posted November 9, 2009 messier is a d bag, mark messier leadership award my ass, that should be stevie's award. anyways 09 class hands down I won't take it quite that far, but he's certainly gotten a lot of mileage out of the 1994 Cup, and the Game 6 guarantee. Without that, I don't know that he's held in nearly as high esteem, even with the Oilers years. Leetch was actually the one who won the Conn Smythe that year, so score one for 2009, I guess. Leadership? Stevie hands down. Better player? Really, really tough call. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted November 9, 2009 Defensemen, I'd have MacInnis slightly ahead of Stevens and Leetch. Forwards, I'd put Yzerman and Messier at the same level (slight favor to Yzerman), followed by Hull (who gets seriously underrated), then Francis and Robitaille last. Together, I would go: Yzerman Messier MacInnis Hull Leetch Stevens Francis Robitaille Very close -- and I would probably give a slight edge to the class of '07. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Z Winged Dangler 2,082 Report post Posted November 9, 2009 09 hands down. and the other debate within, stevie y should be the owner of the leadership award. longest serving captain ever...that says something. and Lidstromboli, click yes and send lebda to the recycling bin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buppy 1,720 Report post Posted November 9, 2009 ... Yzerman Messier MacInnis Hull Leetch Stevens Francis Robitaille Very close -- and I would probably give a slight edge to the class of '07. Almost too close to call really. Hard to find fault with one opinion over the other; all 8 are fantastic players. I'd switch Stevens and MacInnis, and probably move Francis ahead of Mac too. Possibly move Hull to third, goal scoring being such a valuable skill...and none better in this group. I'd also have to think about putting Mess in front of Stevie. Don't know if it's homerism telling me to keep the Captain on top, or trying to hard to avoid being a homer telling me to bump Messier. I think Yzerman was a tad better, but Messier's playoff numbers are tough to ignore. Overall, I'd probably give '09 a very slight edge, but maybe that's just being a Wing's fan. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yzerfan1999 81 Report post Posted November 9, 2009 07 guys have more cups, but I'd take the 09 guys on my team first. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted November 9, 2009 (edited) Almost too close to call really. Hard to find fault with one opinion over the other; all 8 are fantastic players. I'd switch Stevens and MacInnis, and probably move Francis ahead of Mac too. Possibly move Hull to third, goal scoring being such a valuable skill...and none better in this group. I'd also have to think about putting Mess in front of Stevie. Don't know if it's homerism telling me to keep the Captain on top, or trying to hard to avoid being a homer telling me to bump Messier. I think Yzerman was a tad better, but Messier's playoff numbers are tough to ignore. Overall, I'd probably give '09 a very slight edge, but maybe that's just being a Wing's fan. I'd probably put Stevens ahead of Leetch, actually... but not MacInnis -- MacInnis' defense was not so far from Stevens to make up for the large offensive gap. I'd agree Hull could go right before, or right after, MacInnis -- but definitely in front of Stevens and Leetch. I personally feel Messier is one of the most overrated players in the history of the NHL. He was a great, great player, but many believe him to be a Top 10 player of all-time which I think is a complete joke. He only won two Cups as a Captain and was rarely the #1 scorer on his team in the playoffs.... and I personally do not think a single one of his runs was more impressive than Yzerman leading a team of Hall of Famers in scoring, on one leg and at the age of 36 in the playoffs en-route to a Cup in '02. Messier was an outright liability at that age. For instance, Messier had 8 goals and 26 points the year he won his Conn Smythe. He was tied for 4th on the Oilers in goals with Coffey (Gretzky had 13 goals and Kurri had 14) and 3rd in points (Gretzky had 35 pts), while playing on the 2nd line for Edmonton. Edited November 9, 2009 by egroen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reds4Life 51 Report post Posted November 9, 2009 (edited) Messier is better than Yzerman (slightly) MacInnis is better than Leetch (easily) Stevens is better than Hull Francis is better than Robitaille 07 easily. Edited November 9, 2009 by Reds4Life Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
albo23 10 Report post Posted November 9, 2009 Messier is better than Yzerman (slightly) MacInnis is better than Leetch (easily) Stevens is better than Hull Francis is better than Robitaille 07 easily. LOL YEAH Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjlegend 155 Report post Posted November 9, 2009 is this a joke Leetch = 2 Norris, two first team all-stars MacInnis = 1 Norris, three first-team all-stars They each won a Conn Smythe in their only Finals appearance. Pretty even when they were at their peak. I'll take Leetch's leadership ability as captain of the US '96 World Cup team, and I always felt he was a much better leader for the Rangers after Messier left in '97. Unless I'm trying to win a slapshot competition, I'd take Leetch over MacInnis. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted November 9, 2009 Leetch = 2 Norris, two first team all-stars MacInnis = 1 Norris, three first-team all-stars They each won a Conn Smythe in their only Finals appearance. Pretty even when they were at their peak. I'll take Leetch's leadership ability as captain of the US '96 World Cup team, and I always felt he was a much better leader for the Rangers after Messier left in '97. Unless I'm trying to win a slapshot competition, I'd take Leetch over MacInnis. Offensively, they are pretty even... but I think MacInnis was clearly better defensively. MacInnis was also much better later in his career than Leetch (played 5 more seasons) and was runner-up for the Norris at the age of 40. Leetch has 2 1st Team and 3 2nd Team selections. MacInnis actually has 4 1st Team and 3 2nd Team selections. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjlegend 155 Report post Posted November 9, 2009 Offensively, they are pretty even... but I think MacInnis was clearly better defensively. MacInnis was also much better later in his career than Leetch (played 5 more seasons) and was runner-up for the Norris at the age of 40. Leetch has 2 1st Team and 3 2nd Team selections. MacInnis actually has 4 1st Team and 3 2nd Team selections. I see your points about MacInnis. It's an argument, at least. Leetch also did way more for US hockey than MacInnis could ever do for Canadian/PEI/Maritime hockey. Leetch's '94 was better than MacInnis' '89 Scary thought is that MacInnis might have played another couple of years after the lockout if he didn't get that eye injury. No doubt Al would have climbed well over 1,300 points. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C-TownWing 0 Report post Posted November 9, 2009 Lot of disrespect for Hully going around. Guy scored more goals than anyone not named Gretzky or Howe. That's pretty heady stuff. Yeah, okay, there's that matter of the other half of the ice, but still... Three of the top 10 goal scorers in NHL history are in the 2009 class (Yzerman #8, Robitaille #10). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted November 9, 2009 Messier is better than Yzerman (slightly) MacInnis is better than Leetch (easily) Stevens is better than Hull Francis is better than Robitaille 07 easily. I have trouble with Stevens over Hull. Both were pretty one-dimensional, but I think Hull's peak years are clearly a level above. 72, 86, 70, 54, 57 goals in consecutive seasons is awfully good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted November 9, 2009 Agreed. Not bashing Messier, but he really didn't accomplish much once he bolted from the Rangers for the Canucks...Those last 7 years of his career were rather dismal, and in those final 7 years not once did his team make the playoffs. IMHO Stevie was the heart & soul that made the Winged Wheel go...Messier was a leader - no question about that, but on his Cup winning teams he wasn't the center piece that Stevie was with the Red Wings. Stevie Y > Moose. Towards the end of Messier's career he was a stats compiler -- He had a lot of pull in Vancouver and NY and literally was demanding 1st line minutes and a spot on the 1st PP, which actually made him a liability for those teams, as he was a shade of his younger self.... unlike Yzerman who accepted less minutes but was a difference-maker in more ways than just points (unlike Messier at the same age). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buppy 1,720 Report post Posted November 9, 2009 Offensively, they are pretty even... but I think MacInnis was clearly better defensively. MacInnis was also much better later in his career than Leetch (played 5 more seasons) and was runner-up for the Norris at the age of 40. Leetch has 2 1st Team and 3 2nd Team selections. MacInnis actually has 4 1st Team and 3 2nd Team selections. ------------------ I have trouble with Stevens over Hull. Both were pretty one-dimensional, but I think Hull's peak years are clearly a level above. 72, 86, 70, 54, 57 goals in consecutive seasons is awfully good. Leetch and MacInnis are pretty interchangeable. Mac gets the longetivity points, but Leetch a little more clutch. Leetch also managed to win a Norris when Coffey, Borque, and Chelios were all in their primes. And I think you may be underestimating Stevens on offense. He was putting up double-digit goals and 60+ points prior to Lemaire's restrictive system in NJ. He wasn't as talented as the other two, but he wasn't really one-dimensional either. Either way, all three were great, and I'd be happy with any one of them. And for C-TownWing: I don't think it's really possible to 'disrespect' anyone when were talking about 8 players, and Luc Robitaille is the worst of them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted November 9, 2009 (edited) Leetch and MacInnis are pretty interchangeable. Mac gets the longetivity points, but Leetch a little more clutch. Leetch also managed to win a Norris when Coffey, Borque, and Chelios were all in their primes. And I think you may be underestimating Stevens on offense. He was putting up double-digit goals and 60+ points prior to Lemaire's restrictive system in NJ. He wasn't as talented as the other two, but he wasn't really one-dimensional either. Either way, all three were great, and I'd be happy with any one of them. And for C-TownWing: I don't think it's really possible to 'disrespect' anyone when were talking about 8 players, and Luc Robitaille is the worst of them. Stevens was always one-dimensional --- when he was putting up good points in Washington he was more like a Phaneuf. When he started playing great defense he never scored more than 31 points. Edited November 9, 2009 by egroen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
