11/23 GDT: Red Wings 1 at Predators 3

[Superman54 91]

Bert has no desire in his game. He refuses to play how a power forward should. He won't go grind it out at all, and thats why we miss Franzen so much. Both Bert and mule have nice hands, but in the mule's case he plays tough, and finishes. Until Bert proves to play good, replace him with Abs. At least then we get some energy from a player who will actually go and fight along the boards.

[skyphoenix 153]

The game really wasn't that bad (from looking at the score). The only goals Nashville really got were 2 powerplay goals and when you take 4 penalties against a team that has been on a streak like they have, you have to expect them to score at least once. From what I've read the calls were pretty weak, but we only had one goal against in 5v5 hockey. I'd say that's not bad.

Funny though, that the entire team finished even in the +/-

[Carman 387]

Bert has no desire in his game. He refuses to play how a power forward should. He won't go grind it out at all, and thats why we miss Franzen so much. Both Bert and mule have nice hands, but in the mule's case he plays tough, and finishes. Until Bert proves to play good, replace him with Abs. At least then we get some energy from a player who will actually go and fight along the boards.

/ on

Bash Bertuzzi for making dumb decisions with the puck not because of a lack of "desire". That is a totally baseless argument that makes you sound like a 12 year old fishing for insults.

He is battling as hard as any other Red Wing, and is one of the team leaders in hits and shots. He isn't losing half as many battles along the boards as 3/4 of the team is. I don't understand how people make up criticisms on certain players. People always need a scapegoat, it's pathetic. Glad you feel better about yourself for judging an NHL player's desire, and refusal to play hockey the way you think he should.

How hard is to judge a player on an actually tangible basis, bring up his +/-, his giveaways or his shooting % if you want to be taken seriously.

/ off

Edited November 24, 2009 by Carman

[Drake_Marcus 890]

He had a chance; he fanned on it, recovered, and then shot the puck wide. Then he had a nice spinaround backhand into Renne's catching glove. At least it wasn't a spinaround backhand pass to a Nashville player.

And that's the difference between Todd Bertuzzi and Brian Campbell.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

And that's the difference between Todd Bertuzzi and Brian Campbell.

If Campbell was making realistic money, I'd take him in a heartbeat.

[Superman54 91]

I don't believe he is battling as hard has he could be. Whether he will in the future or not we'll just have to wait and see (im guessing not so much). Once the injury flue has passed, i believe Berts play will demote him to the third and quite possibly 4th line till seasons end. Thats if he chooses to continue playing the way he is, and not the dominant power forward that he can be. When Bert isn't playing with edge (clearly now) he is quite useless really. Though he could always prove me wrong...but i doubt that.

Edited November 24, 2009 by Superman54

[Guest lnvincible]

I see that Miller scored tonight while i was at soccer, but how did he play?

[Carman 387]

I don't believe he is battling as hard has he could be. Whether he will in the future or not we'll just have to wait and see (im guessing not so much). Once the injury flue has passed, i believe Berts play will demot him to the third and quite possibly 4th line till seasons end. Thats if he chooses to continue playing the way he is, and not the dominant power forward that he can be. When Bert isn't playing with edge (clearly now) he is quite useless really. Though he could always prove me wrong...but i doubt that.

No one thinks Bertuzzi is a first-liner anymore. But he is forced into this position, it happens when injuries effect the line-up. If you are expecting him to be the 100 point Bertuzzi you are stuck in 03. He isn't going to be a Prime Bertuzzi, he isn't going to be Franzen, he isn't going to be Hossa, he is a 1.5 million dollar secondary scorer that is stuck trying to be a primary goto guy. Expect 40 points, something he is on pace for.

I fail to see how he is useless, being one of the team leaders in hits and shots. I believe you have your expectations way way too high for the 09 Bertuzzi.

Edited November 24, 2009 by Carman

[Superman54 91]

I have expectations for him to play with some passion, that's all. If you miss the amount of opportunities he has, someone determined enough could and would fix it. If you get a chance to play on the red wings first line, seize it! otherwise let someone else fight for the W. Bertuzzi is 34... May take's fists to the head every game at 40. What ive particularly noticed this season with Bert is that he is fast with the puck, and not so much without it. But then again he is only getting paid 1.5 million, so its ok to play careless hockey and let the skilled guys get your points too. Since when did 1.5 million dollars defy him, Bert isn't gonna be held back 20 goals because of his salary.

edit: spelling

Edited November 24, 2009 by Superman54

[Carman 387]

He is held back 20 goals because of talent. He just isn't that good. What don't you understand about him actually being one of the team leaders in hits? He is driving the net, he is forechecking, he is backchecking, and he is playing hard.

Honestly you are not bringing anything but your opinion without anything to back it up. Please show me a youtube of Bertuzzi giving up on a play. I believe he is actually skating, I don't understand how people can complain about the lack of skating that Bertuzzi is apparently doing, yet are completely fine with having Holmstrom literally do nothing in the defensive game and basically glide into and out of the offensive zone...

All this defending of Bertuzzi is making me look like I love the guy. He isn't playing well, but to say he isn't playing with passion is just a contumelious insult that is unfounded in practically every tangible discussion point other than your biased opinion.

[Superman54 91]

Biased opinion? well now your just throwing out random conclusions. I have never had a problem with Bert, till he got paired with Datsyuk that is. You bring up the hitting stats when talking about the red wings... yes because Detroit's all about the rough stuff. I am talking about Cleary grit, the grit Helm shows almost every shift he plays. Bertuzzi isn't playing grinding hockey, but yet your "baised" liking for him will make u think otherwise.

[Duck Guy 86]

Bert is 2nd on the team in shots? He's the new Sammy.

But bert does not rock your socks off like sammy does/did

[skyphoenix 153]

Of course when you have Datsyuk giving you every opportunity in the world to score, you should be leading the team in shots.

[Nev 1,085]

I feel like Pav is ******* Jacob Marley out there, and his chains are Homer and Bert.

Thats the funniest analogy I've read in a loooong time But you're a month too early with it

[MotorCityMadness 388]

You are not are very good observer of hockey. He is getting chances which is a hell of a lot more than other players are doing. For example name one scoring chance Holmstrom created tonight?

I've played for 20 + yrs now and I do know a thing or two about hockey...I just am not feeling his play and I feel a trip or two in the press box can maybe change the fortunes. There were more than a few times where he could have used his size to create space for himself and then he either gave the puck away or peeled off for a big loop skate. Holmstrom played like crap tonight and I'll give you that one.

[hokike 1]

better be ready for losing streak... look at the schedule...

...and shouting to Bertuzzi does not help because of there simply is not better players available and trade talk is useless because of other teams are not less injured than Red Wings ( some even more).

[titanium2 867]

How's about...

Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Cleary

Bertuzzi-Abdelkader-Leino

Miller-Helm-Eaves

May-Draper-Maltby

?

EDIT: I forgot about Holmstrom.

Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Holmstrom

Bertuzzi-Abdelkader-Cleary

Miller-Helm-Eaves

May/Leino-Draper-Maltby

Edited November 24, 2009 by titanium2

[kylee 727]

extremely frustrating game tonight.

apparently, as far as THIS current team goes (goaltending ups and downs, injuries)

its the feast or famine situation..

[kylee 727]

To me it looks as though both Dats/Hank are playing with guys whom are far down the ladder in the skill dept.

Neither guy has a legit 30 plus goal scorer on their line; no matter how well they do in setting guys up - their linemate will either miss the net/hit the goalie's chest/bounce it off the post.

not that i want to come across as standing on a soapbox but,

ive stood by the position that datsyuk and zetterberg should be on the same line together.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Datysuk, Holmstrom and Cleary each with only one shot on goal.

I know Dats is a setup guy, but he's also the most offensively skilled player on the team. The top line guys shouldn't be getting outchanced by Drew Miller.

[Pucks 66]

I'd settle for a one good offensive line. Right now were a no line team. Wings can't seem to get anything done anywhere on the ice. It's frustrating to watch. Certainly not entertaining. I was cleaning up the basement last night while the game was on. I didn't miss a thing

[Johnny Law 15]

Homer isn't useless on the first line, he is useless in the current version of the first line. We don't have the talent available to successfully have Homer play to his fullest capabilities.

Couldn't agree more with you, lots of people on here don't understand that you can't expect or ask a guy like Homer to all the sudden be something he's not. At the age of 36 he isn't going to develop tremendous foot speed or learn how to set guys up. Homer scores when playmaker/dangler type players set the zone and get shots on net, Z&D can do this Bert and D cannot.

When any team is successful its because the players are put into roles that suit their skill set. The Wings for nearly 20 years have been exemplary in terms of getting this done, this year due to the cap and injuries its just not possible. In 07-08 they didn't ask Draper to score 30 goals or ask homer to be the guy to gain the zone, for the aforementioned reasons that's what were trying to do right now. You can ask players to give it there all and elevate their game but at the end of the day you can't ask these guys to do things they simply cannot do.

Add into this mix all the young kids who are both trying to learn the game and contribute in a system that is frankly come off the rails and you can see why on some nights it just isn't happening. Eaves and Miller are 500k player if you think they are going to be the white night and suddenly pot 40 a season your drunk. Abdelkader and Leino are rookies and are playing 10-15mins a night, no ******* way that would be the plan in a "normal" Wings season. It sucks but we are going to have to be patient with these kids, you don't develop a head for scoring in the NHL overnight all you can ask is that they work hard and improve every night.

The only guy who truly pisses me off is Bertuzzi, one he looks lazy sometimes and he simply cannot finish right now. Dude is second on the team in shots (60) and has 3 goals. A career 10%+ shooter is sitting at 5%, 5% !! that isn't going to cut it in the ECHL.

The good thing is we are certainly getting our shots and chances so if we can figure out how to put a couple more in the net we'll be right back in the mix.

[chrisdetroit 189]

No one thinks Bertuzzi is a first-liner anymore. But he is forced into this position, it happens when injuries effect the line-up. If you are expecting him to be the 100 point Bertuzzi you are stuck in 03. He isn't going to be a Prime Bertuzzi, he isn't going to be Franzen, he isn't going to be Hossa, he is a 1.5 million dollar secondary scorer that is stuck trying to be a primary goto guy. Expect 40 points, something he is on pace for.

I fail to see how he is useless, being one of the team leaders in hits and shots. I believe you have your expectations way way too high for the 09 Bertuzzi.

Unfortuantely that's not true. Go back to the boards from August and you can read that alot of the LGW gang wanted him on the first line.

I agree with everything else that you said.

[Carman 387]

Unfortuantely that's not true. Go back to the boards from August and you can read that alot of the LGW gang wanted him on the first line.

I agree with everything else that you said.

Well I'm pretty sure most of those opinions probably have changed by now. Then again I can't speak for everyone, but I haven't really seen a person defend Bertuzzi much .

[chrisdetroit 189]

To me it looks as though both Dats/Hank are playing with guys whom are far down the ladder in the skill dept.

Neither guy has a legit 30 plus goal scorer on their line; no matter how well they do in setting guys up - their linemate will either miss the net/hit the goalie's chest/bounce it off the post.

Exactly. Fil will be back in a week or two. When that happens, he needs to replace Bert on the top line with Pav. Bert should be on the 4th line with Abby and Malts/May/Miller. Fil and Pav have shown great chemistry together. Fil may or may not be a 30 goal scorer but he's certainly capable of 20 and a definite improvement over Bert.