Chicago routs San Jose 7-2

[Nicklin3011 0]

That tends to happen when key players are out injured. I doubt the 3 SHG's would never had happen if Blake was on the blue line QB'ing. That said, I hate using injuries as an excuse. SJ was horrid and Chicago is playing good right now. They'll will fizzle. It might take for the Red Wings to give them a good ol' beat down again, but they will fizzle.

Remember Chicago had to suck since 1961 to get to where they are right now. And after this 1-year window, they'll be faced with cap issues... aren't they over the cap now? They must be dollars and pennies close. I'm glad Holland doesn't have to mortgage away the entire future for a one year chance to win.

It's probably nice getting all that great talent from drafting, but I'm sure it wasn't fun to suck so bad for so long to get there. Now they are going to be losing some of those guys because they love to overpay their players and can't manage the franchise.

This is Chicago's high. It'll be short lived.

Mille Brew Out you bias aaway please. Chicago may not have won the Cup since 1961, but they did not suck...They have one of the longest streaks in all of Professional sports of streaks of making the playoffs. How is their future in jeperady? When they get back from the road Kane, Toews, and Keith will all be signed at the Press Conference? And if they do need to rid people they will like Sopel, Versteeg or Barker...at the end of the season. you build around your Core...Kane, Toews, Keith, Hossa, and Seabrook. How is that not a good future. Jealous much?

[skyphoenix 153]

Glad to see Hossa hasn't lost a step. He's honestly one of my favorite players whether he's on our team or not. He has a great personality and I think he's an excellent two-way forward.

[Nicklin3011 0]

Also Miller BRew how do you say Hossa is a choke. He admitted to being hurt in the playoffs and REGULAR SEASON and he still scored 40 goals. I don't care what team you root for, but to bash a guy who was playing with a bad shoulder...couldnt move his arm above his head...thats a warrior and a hockey player right there. Takes a lot of heart to do that right there and all you want to do is call him a choke. He did pretty damn good with Pitt in the playoffs. Remember you win as a team and lose a team. Detroit did not lose the Cup because of Hossa "Choking" Get a clue and stop making wing fans look like jags.

[Miller Brew 0]

Mille Brew Out you bias aaway please. Chicago may not have won the Cup since 1961, but they did not suck...They have one of the longest streaks in all of Professional sports of streaks of making the playoffs. How is their future in jeperady? When they get back from the road Kane, Toews, and Keith will all be signed at the Press Conference? And *if* they do need to rid people they will like Sopel, Versteeg or Barker...at the end of the season. you build around your Core...Kane, Toews, Keith, Hossa, and Seabrook. How is that not a good future. Jealous much?

Red Wings aka HockeyTown have the most playoff appearances and 4 Stanley Cups in the past 12 years of any other team in the NHL. I've lost count to how many WCF and SCF in the time frame.

Yes I am jealous.

The question isn't *if* they need to rid people, it's *how many* and *who* they have to shed because they're going to have all their cap invested into one line, overpaid goaltending and Campbell.

Trust me, I'm not jealous. Hell, Chicago can't even mail in their qualifying offers in on time. No way they pull of this cap nightmare without losing significant depth. Anaheim is a one line team too. Look at where they are in the standings.

EDIT:

4 Stanley Cups in 12 years, not 13. Forgot to include the lockout.

Edited November 26, 2009 by Miller Brew

[Hiei 192]

Question for the Trolls:

If the blackhawks are so damn good, why do the fans still shout Detroit Sucks at games where Detroit isn't involved with them.

Jealousy's a *****, ain't it.

Sincerely Signed,

Fans of the Detroit Red Wings.

P.S. Even Toronto hasn't gone this long without a cup. It's gotta suck to be in worse straits than TORONTO.

[Tommy_Like_Wingy 25]

The homerism and bitterness in this thread is pretty embarrassing.

[Carman 387]

The homerism and bitterness in this thread is pretty embarrassing.

Agreed.

[dropkickshanahans 463]

I sense fear coming from Miller Brew.

[Z and D for the C 712]

Dude had an injured shoulder, and couldn't even stretch his arm above his head.

If playing with an injury like that isn't hard work, then I don't know what consitutes hard work

This.

[Rivalred 630]

Time to sit back and watch the show folks.

[Z and D for the C 712]

The homerism and bitterness in this thread is pretty embarrassing.

And this.

[mmamolo 287]

This thread has turned a little ridiculous but I do have a couple things to add.

1. Whoever said Ovechkin - Backstrom - Semin is the best line in hockey is absolutely right. Hossa - Toews - Kane is right up there but still, Washington's line is absolutely filthy.

This is 100% dead on! Thanks for posting exactly what I have been thinking all along.

You guys bashing Hossa every chance you get sound like the little whinny girly Pitt fans after Hossa signed w/ us.

Get over it. The guy is an amazing player and was great in the playoffs 2 years ago.

2. Hossa was absolutely sick in the playoffs for the Pens in 08. Unfortunately he was injured for us last year but to me it wasn't the lack of points or effort that was frustrating at times it was that he seemed invisible on the ice most games (even if he picked up an assist or two). He reminded me of his days in Ottawa. Personally, to me it was just an unfortunate situation because I did feel like he could do more but I wouldnt go so far as to bash him because the extent of an injury can be far more dehabilitating than we know, even now.

Thank you - this is spot on. People also forget that Hossa was hurt - this was confirmed afterwords, hence the off season shoulder surgery.

Chicago is sick - flat out. I hate them, I live in the city and have to put up with the nauseating bandwagon hawks fans (not all Hawks fans, but the most vocal - in Chicago at least - are) but to deny the fact that they are insanely good shows pure ignorance on whoever is making the claim.

One last thing on this topic - while a hurt Hossa did not play as well as he probably could have, he still ended up with 15 points for us in the 23 postseason (6 goals, 9 assists) games he played in. Datsyuk had 9 points (1 goal, 8 assists) and while yes - he did play 7 fewer games (16 postseason games) then Hossa, I think we can still agree - was just as big of a bust, if not bigger then Hossa. Homer had a whopping 7 points in 23 games, Cleary had 15 points (same as Hossa), and Flip had 16 points.

So ya - maybe Hossa wasn't a horse, but then again, neither were some others who we counted on.

Franzen is a beast - Hossa however is a proven beast (same age as Franzen and since 05-06 has posted season point totals of 92, 100, 66 and 71 while Franzen since 05-06 has posted season point totals of 16, 30, 38, and 59) Again, these two are the exact same age. I am by no means saying Franzen won't put up huge numbers - I pray to god he does - I am just pointing out that Hossa is in an elite category of players already. I will leave it at that.

I will say that the Red Wings are far from the only team with injury issues - so that excuse, especially this year more then any in recent memory, is somewhat moot.

3. We have to call it like it is. Was I disappointed in Hossa's output? Sure. Was I disappointed in Datsyuk's? Yes, but not to the same extent. To me Datsyuk had a far greater impact on games day in and day out than Hossa did in last year's playoffs. But it's true, both could have put up more points.

4. Comparing Hossa to Datsyuk in last year's playoffs is all fine and good but comparing him to Holmstrom (who was also hurt), Cleary and Filppula is a little far fetched. Not one of those last three are anywhere near expected to produce at the rate Hossa is and yet Cleary and Filppula did. Hossa was not only paid more but had more opportunity than those two. So to me that's an unfair comparison.

5. Lastly, comparing Hossa's development to that of Franzen's is kind of unfair as well. Ppl develop at different rates and are given different oppotunities along the way. I think the only fair way to compare them is on their recent past. Comparing what Hossa has done in his prime vs. what Franzen has done during his ascendence to his prime isnt fair.

[Guest CaliWingsNut]

I find it funny that people don't think of the fact that Hossa had played with the Pens the year before. They then wonder why he was invisible when playing against them the next year. I'm sure the pens completely forgot his game, and didn't use that to their advantage at all. Ohh... he was injured too.

[Carman 387]

5. Lastly, comparing Hossa's development to that of Franzen's is kind of unfair as well. Ppl develop at different rates and are given different oppotunities along the way. I think the only fair way to compare them is on their recent past. Comparing what Hossa has done in his prime vs. what Franzen has done during his ascendence to his prime isnt fair.

Then why compare them at all?

Hossa has already proved to be a top 3 winger in the NHL, Franzen hopes to become one.

To say that Hossa is even comparable to Franzen is borderline, but to actually believe Franzen is better is just plain asinine.

Players may develop at different rates, and it's is pretty likely Franzen hasn't reach his potential. But it shouldn't be passed over that when Franzen was scoring 6 points in 37 games in the SEL, Hossa was scoring 80 in 80 with 45 goals in the NHL. And they are the same age. It is pretty clear that Hossa is a much better Winger, I cannot see the argument for anything else.

[Cern 0]

So I guess we might as well just lie down and die given that God's gift to hockey that we obviously should have retained over Franzen even though it would have been mathematically impossible is healthy for the Hawks now.

Okay.

[Carman 387]

Nah, we couldn't afford Hossa. I understand that, I just think it was great to see a winger of his caliber play for the Wing's in only for a season. I just disagree with the few posters that are happy that Hossa is gone, and blasted him for "not trying" last year, call him a perennial playoff choker, and actually say Franzen is a better player is just ridiculous and makes this board look like even bigger blatant homers even more then we are. That's all, not saying Holland is stupid for not resigning him or anything like that.

[mmamolo 287]

Then why compare them at all?

Hossa has already proved to be a top 3 winger in the NHL, Franzen hopes to become one.

To say that Hossa is even comparable to Franzen is borderline, but to actually believe Franzen is better is just plain asinine.

Players may develop at different rates, and it's is pretty likely Franzen hasn't reach his potential. But it shouldn't be passed over that when Franzen was scoring 6 points in 37 games in the SEL, Hossa was scoring 80 in 80 with 45 goals in the NHL. And they are the same age. It is pretty clear that Hossa is a much better Winger, I cannot see the argument for anything else.

That's exactly the point. I'm not saying Franzen is better than Hossa. It was the poster before who brought upt he comparison of the two simply because of their ability to score goals. All I'm saying is that if you are going to try to compare these two guys it's only fair to gauge them on their recent play. If we're saying who is better today or will be tomorrow it's not fair to judge them on how the played 5 years ago during their development. Again, I agree, still today Hossa is better day in and day out but Franzen produced more and was a bigger impact player in last year's playoffs.

Is it fair to say the because Datsyuk (age 31) put up 26 pts in 42 games for Kazan Ak-Bars in 2000-01 while Sergei Samsonov put up 75 pts in 82 games for the Bruins in the same year that Samsonov is the better player? No of course not. You judge them based on what they are doing today. Obviously, this is an extreme example but the point is if you are to compare two players a comparison is time sensitive and we can only judge them on their recent play.

Again, today I still beleive Hossa is the better player but bringing up history and point totals from 5 years ago is all but irrelevant in comparing who is the better player now. If you want to talk about who has been the better player over their career, then fine, obviously bring up their past.

Nah, we couldn't afford Hossa. I understand that, I just think it was great to see a winger of his caliber play for the Wing's in only for a season. I just disagree with the few posters that are happy that Hossa is gone, and blasted him for "not trying" last year, call him a perennial playoff choker, and actually say Franzen is a better player is just ridiculous and makes this board look like even bigger blatant homers even more then we are. That's all, not saying Holland is stupid for not resigning him or anything like that.

Even the ppl who think Franzen is better, I doubt they are 'happy' Hossa is gone. I think if you asked anyone if they would have wanted to keep both Hossa and Franzen most would say yes. If they say no well they are just beign ignorant. Also, anyone who questions Hossa's effort lst year is grasping at straws to try and makehim look bad. His effort was there but his production in the playoffs wasn't as strong as we would have hoped, especially for what he was being paid (just as Datsyuk's wasn't).

That being said, aside from the 02-03 ( 18 games, 5 goals, 11 assists) and the 07-08 playoffs (20 games, 12 goals, 14 assists) Hossa hasn't exactly produced to the levels you would like to see him produce at int he playoffs. I think that's the only real issue anyone really has with him. But as a Wings fan if we had had the chance to keep both him and Franzen I would have jumped all over it. That being said, I think Franzen's contract may be a better deal cap wise.

[Miller Brew 0]

Nah, we couldn't afford Hossa. I understand that, I just think it was great to see a winger of his caliber play for the Wing's in only for a season. I just disagree with the few posters that are happy that Hossa is gone, and blasted him for "not trying" last year, call him a perennial playoff choker, and actually say Franzen is a better player is just ridiculous and makes this board look like even bigger blatant homers even more then we are. That's all, not saying Holland is stupid for not resigning him or anything like that.

Who's happy that Hossa is gone? I didn't read that anywhere on this forum. Please quote it.

Franzen is a better player in the playoffs and Franzen's $3.95 cap hit is better than Hossa's $5.27 cap hit.

Post lockout Franzen has 51 points (+29) in the playoffs to Hossa's 42 (+7). Clearly Franzen is the better playoff performer and he's $1.3 million /yr less cap hit.

In a perfect world Holland would have Franzen, Hossa, Hudler, Sammy, Quincey and Luongo. Unfortunately, in a cap world, that's not eva gonna happen. Holland made the better choice by keeping Franzen.

Like I said, it doesn't seem that way now because Franzen is out on LTIR and won't be back for 4- 6 months, then Hossa comes back and scores 2 goals. It's easy for people to jump on the bandwagon. I can't jump on the band wagon, sorry.

[mmamolo 287]

Who's happy that Hossa is gone? I didn't read that anywhere on this forum. Please quote it.

Franzen is a better player in the playoffs and Franzen's $3.95 cap hit is better than Hossa's $5.27 cap hit.

Post lockout Franzen has 51 points (+29) in the playoffs to Hossa's 42 (+7). Clearly Franzen is the better playoff performer and he's $1.3 million /yr less cap hit.

In a perfect world Holland would have Franzen, Hossa, Hudler, Sammy, Quincey and Luongo. Unfortunately, in a cap world, that's not eva gonna happen. Holland made the better choice by keeping Franzen.

Like I said, it doesn't seem that way now because Franzen is out on LTIR and won't be back for 4- 6 months, then Hossa comes back and scores 2 goals. It's easy for people to jump on the bandwagon. I can't jump on the band wagon, sorry.

You hit the nail on the head. In a cap world, I agree, Franzen for what he is paid is better than Hossa. but that's a matter of opinion. Problem is Carman likes to focus on one tiny aspect of a discussion and try to hammer it down your thought. You're right, playoffs Franzen is better. Regular season, Hossa is better. money wise you have to like Franzen. If we could have both Im sure everyone would agree we would take them.

Aside from Crosby, i bet if you asked pplon this forum if they would take an all star from around they league they would (possibly begrudgingly) accept.

[Carman 387]

Franzen is a better player in the playoffs and Franzen's $3.95 cap hit is better than Hossa's $5.27 cap hit.

Post lockout Franzen has 51 points (+29) in the playoffs to Hossa's 42 (+7). Clearly Franzen is the better playoff performer and he's $1.3 million /yr less cap hit.

My fault being wrong about saying people are happy he is gone, I must have thought about another thread where something like that was said.

Anyways of course Hossa gets paid more than Franzen. He is a better player and is much more complete than Franzen.

Franzen has 51 points in 62 playoff games. Hossa has 42 points in 46 playoff games since lock out. Clearly you don't understand what you are talking about. No where am I saying we should of kept Hossa, I'm just saying he is a much better player than Franzen. And you are saying I'm jumping on a bandwagon? Your entitled to your opinion, but I've been on the Hossa "band wagon" since seeing him play when I was 10 years old in Portland playing in the WHL. So please spare me the lecture of being a "bandwagoner".

[Miller Brew 0]

My fault being wrong......

Clearly you don't understand what you are talking about......

Nice.

If I remember correctly, Franzen started out on the 4th line and worked his way up to the 1st and 2nd line by being dominating and clutch. Since Franzen broke out, all is history.

...and I'm sure Franzen would make $6 million+ on any other team. He's a bargain. Hossa is a bargain right now but in 7 or 8 years he's overpaid and his contract is 1 year longer.

It's not as cut and dry as you try to make it seem, Carman. Player/Playoffs/Salary/Contract all factor in to make Franzen the best choice for the Wings. Wings shed a s*** load of salary next year and, because of Hossa's contract, Chicago is in big time trouble next year if they want to keep their core/depth. I'm just glad Holland and the Wings don't have these kind of drama/issues.

Edited November 26, 2009 by Miller Brew

[Carman 387]

Ok we both agree Franzen is a better choice for the Red Wing's current situation. I was referring to the whole "Hossa is a choke" deal. You somehow found a way to try and compare Hossa's 42 points and Franzen's 62 points completely disregarding adding the games played with it. That's a pretty unfair way to illustrate your point, and is why I said you don't understand what you were talking about. Probably a little harsh to say that I'm sorry.

Franzen has yet to have a regular season in his career that is better than Hossa's third* season in the league. That to me is pretty telling. Not to mention Hossa played on the PK which for a primary goal scoring winger is pretty evident of how much a coach trusts in his defensive game. Franzen had a very good two playoffs with goal scoring, that's it. Hossa has a much broader table to draw from to see what kind of player he is and is proven to be, that's all I'm trying to get across.

Edited November 26, 2009 by Carman

[Miller Brew 0]

Ok we both agree Franzen is a better choice for the Red Wing's current situation. I was referring to the whole "Hossa is a choke" deal. You somehow found a way to try and compare Hossa's 42 points and Franzen's 62 points completely disregarding adding the games played with it. That's a pretty unfair way to illustrate your point, and is why I said you don't understand what you were talking about. Probably a little harsh to say that I'm sorry.

Franzen has yet to have a regular season in his career that is better than Hossa's third* season in the league. That to me is pretty telling. Not to mention Hossa played on the PK which for a primary goal scoring winger is pretty evident of how much a coach trusts in his defensive game. Franzen had a very good two playoffs with goal scoring, that's it. Hossa has a much broader table to draw from to see what kind of player he is and is proven to be, that's all I'm trying to get across.

Franzen is due for a breakout in the regular season. He was projected to score 40 goals this year. But still, for the playoffs, your argument is totally on the surface to benefit your point. You disregard TOI, GWG (clutch), Franzen started off as a 3rd and 4th liner and now he's a BEAST in the playoffs. He's better than Hossa in the playoffs, that's indisputable. Franzen has 10 GWGs while Hossa only has 3. Look at the +/- differential.

Even in a non-cap world, I'll take Franzen over Hossa in the playoffs any day of the week. But if you want to cream your pants for regular season stats, by all means, go for it. Playoffs is when hockey really begins.

[skyphoenix 153]

Well, Hossa did have 26 points in 20 playoff games with the Penguins in 07-08. He was a huge factor in them getting to the finals that year. I would personally take Hossa over Franzen and I said that at the beginning of last year when there were talks of only resigning one of them.

[Carman 387]

Franzen is due for a breakout in the regular season. He was projected to score 40 goals this year. But still, for the playoffs, your argument is totally on the surface to benefit your point. You disregard TOI, GWG (clutch), Franzen started off as a 3rd and 4th liner and now he's a BEAST in the playoffs. He's better than Hossa in the playoffs, that's indisputable. Franzen has 10 GWGs while Hossa only has 3. Look at the +/- differential.

Even in a non-cap world, I'll take Franzen over Hossa in the playoffs any day of the week. But if you want to cream your pants for regular season stats, by all means, go for it. Playoffs is when hockey really begins.

While Franzen is still waiting for a breakout season Hossa has 9 regular season's with 60+ points. And the regular season is important whether you think it is or not. Hossa also played better defensive hockey in the playoffs than Franzen, there is a reason one winger was chosen over the other to play more on the PK. Franzen had one playoffs that he played better than Hossa, a playoffs in which Hossa had a torn rotator cuff. I find it unbelievable that in a non-cap world would would take Franzen over Hossa.

Last year's playoffs are comparing a hurt Hossa to a fairly healthy Franzen. You don't even mention the playoffs before where Hossa completely outplayed Franzen.