Broken 16 381 Report post Posted December 5, 2009 Sorry guys. I just enjoy discussing great players. You go out of your way to bring up Crosby. We get it. You like him a lot. I'm sure many of us feel the way you do about him but don't go around parading about it because we know it annoys a majority of the hardcore fans of this site. Maybe you're just bored... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carman 387 Report post Posted December 5, 2009 You go out of your way to bring up Crosby. We get it. You like him a lot. I'm sure many of us feel the way you do about him but don't go around parading about it because we know it annoys a majority of the hardcore fans of this site. Maybe you're just bored... I wasn't the person to bring him up in this thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broken 16 381 Report post Posted December 5, 2009 I wasn't the person to bring him up in this thread. Obviously Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted December 5, 2009 (edited) At the moment I would take him over everyone else in the league. Look at his stats so far this season. Face-offs, even strength points, plus minus, TOI etc.. He is one of the best players in the league without question. And the best player in the league in my mind. Bring something else other than using my great quotes iin an effort to contribute to this wonderful thread about the greatest talents in the history of the league. Crosby is one of the league's best players. But he is far from being the league's most complete player. That is a significantly different thing. Crosby is very good offensively, good on faceoffs, a good skater, and physically strong and capable of keeping the puck. But his defense is average at best and he is still immature. Both of those will likely improve with time, but that's the fact now. He's not a complete player. Offhand, I would say probably the ten most complete forwards in the NHL are Henrik Zetterberg, Mike Richards, Pavel Datsyuk, Daniel Alfredsson, Marian Hossa, Jarome Iginla, Mikko Koivu, Ryan Kesler, Brenden Morrow, and Shane Doan. Edited December 5, 2009 by eva unit zero Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carman 387 Report post Posted December 5, 2009 Crosby is one of the league's best players. But he is far from being the league's most complete player. That is a significantly different thing. Crosby is very good offensively, good on faceoffs, a good skater, and physically strong and capable of keeping the puck. But his defense is average at best and he is still immature. Both of those will likely improve with time, but that's the fact now. He's not a complete player. Offhand, I would say probably the ten most complete forwards in the NHL are Henrik Zetterberg, Mike Richards, Pavel Datsyuk, Daniel Alfredsson, Marian Hossa, Jarome Iginla, Mikko Koivu, Ryan Kesler, Brenden Morrow, and Shane Doan. Fair enough. We just have a different opinion on complete player. You have more emphasis on defensive play and I offensive play. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carman 387 Report post Posted December 5, 2009 Obviously Then how did I go out of the way? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broken 16 381 Report post Posted December 6, 2009 (edited) Then how did I go out of the way? You didn't in this thread. I thought we already established that. You can continue your 'babe in the woods' routine if you want but anyone with half a brain can read between the lines of your posts and pick up the passive aggression. You bait continuously using Crosby. Not trying to deny you your cheap entertainment, but not everyone is as dumb as you think. Edited December 6, 2009 by Broken 16 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carman 387 Report post Posted December 6, 2009 You didn't in this thread. I thought we already established that. You can continue your 'babe in the woods' routine if you want but anyone with half a brain can read between the lines of your posts and pick up the passive aggression. You bait continuously using Crosby. Not trying to deny you your cheap entertainment, but people aren't as dumb as you think. I've only done that in one thread and that was to soften a bad Wing's game. It's not like I'm doing that in every thread I post in. I post a lot, and I enjoy discussing the improvements I see in Crosby this season compared to past seasons. I don't see the problem here, people like Hudler and talk about him, people like discussing prospects, people like discussing trade scenarios, people discuss free agents; This is just another thing I enjoy about discussing on a discussion forum. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hak 21 Report post Posted December 6, 2009 i also believe crosby will win the art ross. i don't wish him to win it but im realistic of the people in the top 10 i would like to see gaborik win it. i like the rangers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hockeytown0001 7,652 Report post Posted December 6, 2009 Gaborik or Crosby Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted December 6, 2009 Fair enough. We just have a different opinion on complete player. You have more emphasis on defensive play and I offensive play. A complete player is one who can perform well in all aspects of the game. And if offense is what you think is most important, with everything else taking minor importance, Ovechkin is still more complete than Crosby. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carman 387 Report post Posted December 6, 2009 A complete player is one who can perform well in all aspects of the game. And if offense is what you think is most important, with everything else taking minor importance, Ovechkin is still more complete than Crosby. No because I value centers more than left wings in a complete player discussion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hack & Whack Rule! 160 Report post Posted December 6, 2009 No because I value centers more than left wings in a complete player discussion. I'm not sure how a player's position can be a determining factor in a complete player discussion. Either he's got what makes him a complete player, or he doesn't. You're justifying your manlove for Crosby, and it ain't working. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hockeytown0001 7,652 Report post Posted December 6, 2009 Gabork is making a good case to get it when he has 21 goals and the next closest Ranger has 6. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VM1138 1,921 Report post Posted December 6, 2009 Crosby is certainly talented but I still don't get why people think he is the greatest. He won't be a Gretzky. He's not even the best player on his team, let alone the league. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BeeRYCE 2 Report post Posted December 6, 2009 Crosby is certainly talented but I still don't get why people think he is the greatest. He won't be a Gretzky. He's not even the best player on his team, let alone the league. I certainly think he's better than Malkin, doesn't even have to be from a "most complete player" standpoint, his offensive skills alone are better than Malkin's. The thing about Crosby is I'd give him a top ten (maybe even five) spot in every offensive category... From shooting to passing to stickhandling. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carman 387 Report post Posted December 6, 2009 I'm not sure how a player's position can be a determining factor in a complete player discussion. Either he's got what makes him a complete player, or he doesn't. You're justifying your manlove for Crosby, and it ain't working. Huh? Certainly being one of the best at an attribute of your position should be taken into account. It's not a determining factor, It's just another reason I'd take Crosby over Ovechkin or any other winger for that matter. Same way I'd take Zetterberg over Ovechkin obviously age non-factor. I don't value Winger's that high. When has a team ever been lead through the playoffs by a winger? It's always been a goaltender, center, or defenseman that are the ones with the most impact on the team. If you need the best goal scorer and a physical presence take Ovechkin, but I'll take a center who is one of the best in the corners and along the wall, top 5 play maker, one of the best face-off man, captain of his team, plays the type of game that will certainly grant him future success, and happens to play through mountains of expectations yet still come out a winner. I don't see why I'm crazy for my opinion on this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted December 7, 2009 No because I value centers more than left wings in a complete player discussion. So you consider Wayne Gretzky more complete than Jari Kurri or Glenn Anderson? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carman 387 Report post Posted December 7, 2009 So you consider Wayne Gretzky more complete than Jari Kurri or Glenn Anderson? Better player I suppose. I guess I should stop arguing the "complete" idea. I don't like using that term anyways. I value what a player can contribute towards a team to successfully win games, that's all that matters to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted December 7, 2009 Better player I suppose. I guess I should stop arguing the "complete" idea. I don't like using that term anyways. I value what a player can contribute towards a team to successfully win games, that's all that matters to me. Which is all I was trying to say. Crosby is one of the ten best players in the world, but he's not even close to that when you list them based on how complete a player they are. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mmamolo 287 Report post Posted December 9, 2009 I'll be the first to admit, Crosby is ******* good. But he's an annoying little f*** at times. I respect his ability and his accomplishments but it's the way he goes about things that pisses me off. Not to mention the NHL jamming him down our throats like Ron Jeremy would a hot little blonde in one of his f*** flicks. Because he is the best player in the NHL. And is a hell of a lot of fun to watch and talk about. Just because he doesn't play on the Red Wing's doesn't mean Red Wing's fans shouldn't have the privilege of watching and talking about his spectacular play. When Crosby shuts his mouth, doesnt use cheap stick work and bulls*** cheap shots then yeah he is fun to watch. Personally I dont think he is the best player in the league though. Whether we're talking from a complete stand point or just offensively or whatever. I do think that, beign a Wings fan, I can still appreciate watching him. He's an immature dork. I don't enjoy watching him play and the only time I have fun talking about him is when I get to call him immature names. Many other players are more fun to watch, but few get the same attention. Ovie and Malkin get a bit, and I'd rather watch them play, others only get attention when there's a clip of a dirty hit. The dude's got skills, I'll be the first Crosby hater to admit it, but way too young to have a C on his shirt, as proven by his absence in the lineup to shake hands after winning the cup. I get it, he was excited. A mature captain of that team would have been in that lineup at centre ice. His whining to the refs, hacking with his stick and complete lack of sportsmanship is what makes me believe that he sucks ass through a straw, and probably always will. This post hits the nail on the head. He's really good but he's not jesus christ like a lot of ppl in the NHL would have us beleive. No because I value centers more than left wings in a complete player discussion. I can understand ppl valuing centres more than wingers on levels of importance to a team but how you can hold being a winger as a detriment to a player when discussing who is the most complete player is kind of short sighted. By that knowledge, wouldnt the fact that a guy like Datsyuk (who can play both centre and wing effectively) then be more complete simply because he plays both spots? As good as Crosby is there are a lot more complete players. I woudl take Malken and/or Ovechkin ahead of Crosby if I were in a fantasy draft. That being said, Crosby would be top 5 for sure in my mind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cusimano_brothers 1,655 Report post Posted December 9, 2009 Tiger Woods. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cusimano_brothers 1,655 Report post Posted December 9, 2009 Oops, sorry; I thought the topic was "highest scoring playa". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
