Guest zackmorris Report post Posted December 8, 2009 (edited) This is just a purely hypothetical scenario. Not what I wish, not what I'm predicting, I just want to see what people think. I'll in all likelihood be flamed but whatever, here goes... We're all expecting Ozzie to just bust out and suddenly become a wall in the playoffs. He's done it for the past two seasons so naturally we expect him to do it again. But what if he doesn't? What if he completely bombs 2 or 3 games? Would you be ok with Babcock making an example of him the way he did Hasek? And I mean no matter how he plays in the first few games, I mean if he just lets in goals in the few games after because it's not often remembered that Hasek saved our ass in the first two games against Nashville in 08 and probably could've survived the barage he took and came right back. That didn't save him later. An example needed to be made and the team woke up because of it. So how would you feel if he got yanked and Howard got put in? I'm aware of the differences, such as Osgood having won a Cup before that, but at one point Ozzie was a kid thrust into the goaltending spotlight and everyone was worried, and he won. I know he had a great team in front of him, but when our players come back from injury, we're still probably the most skilled, most responsible team in the league when we play our game. So he wouldn't be out there alone. I'm not hoping for this, I just want the guy in net who gives us the best chance to win. No bias, no personal affinity towards anyone, winning is all that matters. So what do you think? I'm not trying to start a war, I was just curious and figured if I put this in that other Osgood thread I'd be told I was hijacking it. Edited December 8, 2009 by zackmorris Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CenterIce 83 Report post Posted December 8, 2009 Osgood will have a longer leash than Hasek did. You had two goalies with playoff experience in 08. Now, you have one. The Wings would not put in Howard unless it was absolutely necessary. The only way I could see Howard being in net over Osgood in the playoffs, as the number one goalie, is if he goes lights out down the stretch and nothing is getting by him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted December 8, 2009 Osgood was a Vezina contender in 1995, 1996, and 1997, and should have won it in 1996. He played very well in the 1996 playoffs. Bowman still went with Vernon in the 97 playoffs. While there's still plenty of season left, Howard hasn't yet shown play up to the level of Osgood's rookie season. Unless he suddenly goes lights out, I would not want to put him in in the playoffs unless Ozzie was giving his best Legace impression. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest zackmorris Report post Posted December 8, 2009 (edited) Yeah that's basically what I'm saying-what if Osgood just s***s the bed, and I mean just lets in whiffers most of us could stop. What then? Do we force it, or do we play Howard if he's been good in March and a little after? Edited December 8, 2009 by zackmorris Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Echolalia 2,961 Report post Posted December 8, 2009 I don't care who's in net come May. Coming into this season back in October I always looked at the 09-10 year as more of an experimental intermediate phase between two contending periods. If Howard is in, all the more experience for him. If Osgood's in, good for him and the team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carman 387 Report post Posted December 8, 2009 Honestly I'd play Howard if that's the case. Osgood went on a good stretch towards the end of the year before the playoffs. But it's really tough to not even give Osgood one chance in the playoffs. It really depends on what the team sees in practices and who they think gives them a better chance to win. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casey 145 Report post Posted December 8, 2009 While there's still plenty of season left, Howard hasn't yet shown play up to the level of Osgood's rookie season. Numerically, Howard has. Osgood in 93/94- 23-8-5, 2.86 GAA, 0.895 save percentage. Howard in 09/10- 8-5-1, 2.55 GAA, 0.910 save percentage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Echolalia 2,961 Report post Posted December 8, 2009 (edited) Numerically, Howard has. Osgood in 93/94- 23-8-5, 2.86 GAA, 0.895 save percentage. Howard in 09/10- 8-5-1, 2.55 GAA, 0.910 save percentage. You know someone's just going to mention something about the league being high scoring back then and you have to adjust for 'deflation' since then to make new statistics, and those new made up statistics will clearly benefit Osgood . Anyway, what matters now is how each of them are playing today. We don't have rookie Osgood sitting game after game on the bench right now. Edited December 8, 2009 by Echolalia Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outsider 42 Report post Posted December 8, 2009 Yeah that's basically what I'm saying-what if Osgood just s***s the bed, and I mean just lets in whiffers most of us could stop. What then? Do we force it, or do we play Howard if he's been good in March and a little after? What you're really saying is "Someone say it's a good idea to go with Howard. Someone say the words. Say the words "We should go with Howard"." You're not even very good at disguising it. By the way.....as for Hasek "saving our ass" in the first 2 games against NSH in 2008? The Wings outshot the Preds 39-20 in Game 1, and won 3-1. They outshot the Preds 38-27 in Game 2, and Won 4-2. The only "ass saving" that was going on was on the OTHER side of the rink, where Dan Ellis was the only thing keeping the score respectable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
digitaljohn88 4 Report post Posted December 8, 2009 You know someone's just going to mention something about the league being high scoring back then and you have to adjust for 'deflation' since then to make new statistics, and those new made up statistics will clearly benefit Osgood . Anyway, what matters now is how each of them are playing today. We don't have rookie Osgood sitting game after game on the bench right now. Hah, can't really twist this kind of data. Average NHL save percentage was .895% in 93/94, and in 93/94 Ozzy had a .895%. So in his rookie year, Osgood was exactly NHL average. However, between 94' and 00', Osgood was well above the average NHL percentage. I don't have the data for this year's average save percentage, but it has hovered around .909% for the last few years. Howard currently sits at .910%, almost right on the average. So you could say so far that Howard is having a very similar year to Osgood's rookie year. Hopefully Howard is above average for the next 5 years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outsider 42 Report post Posted December 8, 2009 You know someone's just going to mention something about the league being high scoring back then and you have to adjust for 'deflation' since then to make new statistics, and those new made up statistics will clearly benefit Osgood . Anyway, what matters now is how each of them are playing today. We don't have rookie Osgood sitting game after game on the bench right now. No. But it helps to put Osgood's rookie year stats up against his Teammates stats for that year. Bob Essensa 13GP 778MIN 34GA 2.62GAA 4W 7L 2T 0.899SVP 1 SO Chris Osgood 41GP 2206MIN 105GA 2.86GAA 23W 8L 5T 0.895SVP 2 SO Tim Cheveldae 30GP 1572MIN 91GA 3.47GAA 16W 9L 1T 0.875SVP 1 SO Vincent Riendeau 8GP 345MIN 23GA 4.00GAA 2W 4L 0T 0.824SVP 0 SO Peter Ing 3GP 170MIN 15GA 5.29GAA 1W 2 L 0T 0.853SVP 0 SO Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thedisappearer 291 Report post Posted December 8, 2009 No. But it helps to put Osgood's rookie year stats up against his Teammates stats for that year. Bob Essensa 13GP 778MIN 34GA 2.62GAA 4W 7L 2T 0.899SVP 1 SO Chris Osgood 41GP 2206MIN 105GA 2.86GAA 23W 8L 5T 0.895SVP 2 SO Tim Cheveldae 30GP 1572MIN 91GA 3.47GAA 16W 9L 1T 0.875SVP 1 SO Vincent Riendeau 8GP 345MIN 23GA 4.00GAA 2W 4L 0T 0.824SVP 0 SO Peter Ing 3GP 170MIN 15GA 5.29GAA 1W 2 L 0T 0.853SVP 0 SO That helps none. The post above you helps the conversation, you just prove we had *really* s***ty back-ups that year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Echolalia 2,961 Report post Posted December 8, 2009 No. But it helps to put Osgood's rookie year stats up against his Teammates stats for that year. Bob Essensa 13GP 778MIN 34GA 2.62GAA 4W 7L 2T 0.899SVP 1 SO Chris Osgood 41GP 2206MIN 105GA 2.86GAA 23W 8L 5T 0.895SVP 2 SO Tim Cheveldae 30GP 1572MIN 91GA 3.47GAA 16W 9L 1T 0.875SVP 1 SO Vincent Riendeau 8GP 345MIN 23GA 4.00GAA 2W 4L 0T 0.824SVP 0 SO Peter Ing 3GP 170MIN 15GA 5.29GAA 1W 2 L 0T 0.853SVP 0 SO Sorry, but I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be taking away from this. I suppose I could do the same thing now and compare Howard's numbers to Osgood's for this year, but I don't want to establish myself as supporting one goalie over the other for the postseason right now. As I said earlier I don't care too much one way or the other, but I don't like comparing past numbers over present numbers to support why player A should be in and player B should not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrisdetroit 189 Report post Posted December 8, 2009 I don't care who's in net come May. Coming into this season back in October I always looked at the 09-10 year as more of an experimental intermediate phase between two contending periods. If Howard is in, all the more experience for him. If Osgood's in, good for him and the team. You wrote off the season before it started? Talk about a pessimist. Oh wait, this is one of those "I told you so's" Well, you can give up on the team in October if you want but I don't want to see your neagtive ass on the bandwagon come playoff time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Echolalia 2,961 Report post Posted December 8, 2009 You wrote off the season before it started? Talk about a pessimist. Oh wait, this is one of those "I told you so's" Well, you can give up on the team in October if you want but I don't want to see your neagtive ass on the bandwagon come playoff time. Whoa hold on a second, please explain to me how "experimental intermediate phase" equates to "giving up on the team in October" and being a "neagtive ass on the bandwagon"? I don't expect that you follow my posts, but you'll do a quick search you'll see that I've been posting just as regularly this year through the tough times and watching the games as frequently as I have throughout the rest of my life, or for as much as you'll be able to research on me at least, my life on LGW. It's no secret that the Wings lost a lot of players in the offseason and didn't have much caproom to fill the gaps this season. It's also no secret that they will have more cap room in the future to play with, thus it seems like its pretty straightforward why this season could be considered an intermediate between two legit contending periods. And again, its no secret that we have a lot of new blood, specifically a lot of rookies this year, and quite frankly this is a great opportunity to see how they can cope at the NHL level over 82 games plus playoffs, permitting. Thus this year is largely experimental. So please, don't jump to conclusions about me, especially about my fandom. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedWings Gone Wild 6 Report post Posted December 8, 2009 No. But it helps to put Osgood's rookie year stats up against his Teammates stats for that year. Bob Essensa 13GP 778MIN 34GA 2.62GAA 4W 7L 2T 0.899SVP 1 SO Chris Osgood 41GP 2206MIN 105GA 2.86GAA 23W 8L 5T 0.895SVP 2 SO Tim Cheveldae 30GP 1572MIN 91GA 3.47GAA 16W 9L 1T 0.875SVP 1 SO Vincent Riendeau 8GP 345MIN 23GA 4.00GAA 2W 4L 0T 0.824SVP 0 SO Peter Ing 3GP 170MIN 15GA 5.29GAA 1W 2 L 0T 0.853SVP 0 SO How does it help? His competition in net was god-awful that year. Anyways, this organization has gone with the "proven" goaltender every single time for close to 20 years now. Vernon > Osgood Hasek > Osgood Osgood > Conklin Regardless of regular season this club usually goes with the veteran (at least initially).. so it would be a shocker to me if Osgood was healthy and on the bench come playoffs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jake Ryan 1 Report post Posted December 9, 2009 How does it help? His competition in net was god-awful that year. Anyways, this organization has gone with the "proven" goaltender every single time for close to 20 years now. Vernon > Osgood Hasek > Osgood Osgood > Conklin Regardless of regular season this club usually goes with the veteran (at least initially).. so it would be a shocker to me if Osgood was healthy and on the bench come playoffs. The only problem with this is Cujo. Cujo isn't > than anybody! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Lidstromboli Report post Posted December 9, 2009 curtis joseph? never heard of him, probably some borderline ahl bum Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rivalred 630 Report post Posted December 9, 2009 Don't we have to make it that far 1st? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoWings1905 2,694 Report post Posted December 9, 2009 It won't happen, but it sure would bring those non-stop Ozzie bashers from last season back. Funny how most of those quality posters were nowhere to be found after last April. Ozzie will be our playoff goalie until he retires. He proves this every.single.year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjlegend 155 Report post Posted December 9, 2009 If nothing else develops from this thread, at least I've been pleasantly reminded that this year's goaltending depth appears better than the crew of has-beens like Vince Riendeau and Peter Ing that had the nerve to wear red and white 16 years ago. Jimmy Howard has been OK, but April to June goaltending is Osgood's forte. I don't care what the regular season numbers are saying - I'd only put Howard in if Ossie really poops the bed and the Wings are down 3-0 in a series. And even then I'd have to think twice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SouthernWingsFan 854 Report post Posted December 9, 2009 (edited) IF Howard shines in May and Osgood doesn't, then Howard would probably start in the playoffs. That's not being decided until May though. And while Howard is the hotter goaltender right now, it's not like Osgood has been dragging a** out there. Osgood is still the postseason goalie right now. Edited December 9, 2009 by SouthernWingsFan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mmamolo 287 Report post Posted December 9, 2009 How does it help? His competition in net was god-awful that year. Anyways, this organization has gone with the "proven" goaltender every single time for close to 20 years now. Vernon > Osgood Hasek > Osgood Osgood > Conklin Regardless of regular season this club usually goes with the veteran (at least initially).. so it would be a shocker to me if Osgood was healthy and on the bench come playoffs. Except for when they didn't have a proven goaltender, like in 98. Player GP W L T SO GAA Chris Osgood 64 33 20 11 6 2.21 Kevin Hodson 21 9 3 3 2 2.67 Norm Maracle 4 2 0 1 0 2.02 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Z and D for the C 712 Report post Posted December 9, 2009 By the way.....as for Hasek "saving our ass" in the first 2 games against NSH in 2008? The Wings outshot the Preds 39-20 in Game 1, and won 3-1. They outshot the Preds 38-27 in Game 2, and Won 4-2. The only "ass saving" that was going on was on the OTHER side of the rink, where Dan Ellis was the only thing keeping the score respectable. Hasek played really well and made some big, big saves in the first 2 games of that series. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyphoenix 153 Report post Posted December 9, 2009 Ride. The. Hot. Goalie. I don't think if Howard is playing out of his mind in May, Babcock is going to tell him to sit and throw in Ozzy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
