Pretty soon - Who are the THREE odd men out?

[mmamolo 287]

May was signed before the 3rd game of the season(when the Wings were healthy), specifically because the Wings were getting bullied. What early season are you refering to?

This is true. However, at that point the Draper - Helm - Eaves line wasn't established. Eaves hadn't played and there was that extra opening in the line up.

[mmamolo 287]

May was signed before the 3rd game of the season(when the Wings were healthy), specifically because the Wings were getting bullied. What early season are you refering to?

This is true. However, at that point the Draper - Helm - Eaves line wasn't established. Eaves hadn't played and there was that extra opening in the line up.

[mmamolo 287]

May was signed before the 3rd game of the season(when the Wings were healthy), specifically because the Wings were getting bullied. What early season are you refering to?

This is true. However, at that point the Draper - Helm - Eaves line wasn't established. Eaves hadn't played and there was that extra opening in the line up.

[uk_redwing 495]

That early season were Leino-Filppula-Williams was our best line

You do realise the players on "our best line" produced a massive 9 goals between them in 70 collective games? Thats some impressive line. You really have Leino issues.

Also, Williams isnt going anywhere.

Edited January 8, 2010 by uk_redwing

[Finnish Wing 110]

You do realise "our best line" produced a massive 9 goals between them in 70 collective games? Thats some impressive line. You really have Leino issues.

Also, Williams isnt going anywhere.

Err, what?

Babcock's said it was our best line, so did many people here. Even without having any issues, you could tell that it was clearly our best line.

Williams played well before he got injured, just like Leino. We'll just see how he plays in the future, but I do hope he'll continue from where he left. He gets 1,5k so it's possible he could be traded if he doesn't get it going again after the injury.

And there's no question that you've got some May issues. Even with the issues, I think you'd know that he won't be in the regular lineup once people are healthy.

[stevkrause 1,247]

Err, what?

Babcock's said it was our best line, so did many people here. Even without having any issues, you could tell that it was clearly our best line.

Williams played well before he got injured, just like Leino. We'll just see how he plays in the future, but I do hope he'll continue from where he left. He gets 1,5k so it's possible he could be traded if he doesn't get it going again after the injury.

And there's no question that you've got some May issues. Even with the issues, I think you'd know that he won't be in the regular lineup once people are healthy.

and that was because of the play of Fil and Willy - I guarantee they'll be even better with Miller, especially since he'll be able to keep up with them...

You need to let go...

[Finnish Wing 110]

and that was because of the play of Fil and Willy - I guarantee they'll be even better with Miller, especially since he'll be able to keep up with them...

You need to let go...

It certainly is easy to use "my biased opinions" as a counter-argument against my every argument. I don't even have it going.

IMO Leino and Miller are two players who are fairly equally good with the difference of Miller being better defensively and Leino being better offensively. I wan't to see them both compare for that spot in the line with Filppula and Williams. Miller was claimed through waivers and Leino already has a contract for next year and Leino's been here longer, that's the difference.

It's nice that you can guarantee something like that since that line was on fire in the early season with Leino on it. I wouldn't guarantee anything before I've seen Miller in that line.

Edited January 8, 2010 by Finnish Wing

[esteef 2,679]

Specifically watched Lame-O last night and all he did was float. He stood in the slot while Flip and Cleary did all the dirty work along the boards and in the corners to control the puck down low, taking hits in the process. He did this on both sides of the rink. Get. Him. Out.

esteef

[Guest mindfly]

It's gone so far with Leino that the only ones who defend him on this board are his countrymen, the finns...lol

[Finnish Wing 110]

It's gone so far with Leino that the only ones who defend him on this board are his countrymen, the finns...lol

I honestly think that the bashing wouldn't be nearly as bad if people would've had realistic expectations for the guy. I'm not saying he's been good enough to even match the realistic expectations, but for some people to really expect 20 goal 40 point season was...

I'm still saying that I don't expect him to be a top6 player this season or even a regular guy in the lineup, but in the long run he's much better choice than May. This is not anti-enforcing here. It's just because we know that Maltby won't be going and Miller shouldn't be going either. May is not really a Red Wing any more than Leino is, except Leino's been here longer and has a contract for next year also. Even if May wasn't an enforcer I'd say he should be the forward to go.

I just rather pick a guy that still has potential over a guy that's a 4th liner and getting worse with age.

Edited January 8, 2010 by Finnish Wing

[stevkrause 1,247]

It certainly is easy to use "my biased opinions" as a counter-argument against my every argument. I don't even have it going.

IMO Leino and Miller are two players who are fairly equally good with the difference of Miller being better defensively and Leino being better offensively. I wan't to see them both compare for that spot in the line with Filppula and Williams. Miller was claimed through waivers and Leino already has a contract for next year and Leino's been here longer, that's the difference.

It's nice that you can guarantee something like that since that line was on fire in the early season with Leino on it. I wouldn't guarantee anything before I've seen Miller in that line.

Miller is a proven player at the NHL level (not a star, but clearly belongs) with years under his belt that has played on crap teams and finally has a chance with a legit team and a system he works well in - Leino has proven nothing... and one could easily argue the success at the beginning of the year on that line was 100% Fil and Williams (it wouldn't be 100% true, but one could make the argument) and that they'd been better off with someone who could keep up with them... and I would...

Contract means nothing - the difference is who will compete and give the team a best chance to win and that is miller - that's the difference.

Finally, I'd HARDLY call 2G, 1A and a -2 on fire... those are Leino's numbers in the first 10 games... and just because the line was playing well, doesn't mean it had anything to do with Leino, once again, I would LOVE to see Miller with those two and compare a 10 game stretch... I'd bet dollars to donuts that they'll not only have at least equal points, but one hell of a better +/-

[cjm502 165]

When Leino can learn to stand up on skates I might start to gain hope. He was good playing over in Finland, but in the NHL there is actually physical contact during the game. Leino hasnt caught on to this yet.

[Finnish Wing 110]

Miller is a proven player at the NHL level (not a star, but clearly belongs) with years under his belt that has played on crap teams and finally has a chance with a legit team and a system he works well in - Leino has proven nothing... and one could easily argue the success at the beginning of the year on that line was 100% Fil and Williams (it wouldn't be 100% true, but one could make the argument) and that they'd been better off with someone who could keep up with them... and I would...

Contract means nothing - the difference is who will compete and give the team a best chance to win and that is miller - that's the difference.

Finally, I'd HARDLY call 2G, 1A and a -2 on fire... those are Leino's numbers in the first 10 games... and just because the line was playing well, doesn't mean it had anything to do with Leino, once again, I would LOVE to see Miller with those two and compare a 10 game stretch... I'd bet dollars to donuts that they'll not only have at least equal points, but one hell of a better +/-

Wrong. I'm sorry. It's impossible to continue this discussion.

Miller can stay. May will go down or be gone.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

He's so slow. That's what I noticed last night more then anything, he cant get one loose puck, he's never in good position and once the play goes up the ice he's way back there. And he may be a better stick handler then May is in practise with no contact, but when the puck is on his stick it's off it quickly.. and not because he's playing dump and chase. Honestly, I wasnt expecting him to set the world on fire this year, but 7 points and -8? That's brutal. Couple of rookie comparisons to Leino. Jamie Benn, 8 goals 20 points -5. Ryan O'Reilly 5 goals 18 points +8. Peter Regin 5 goals 18 points +11. None of these guys were expected to make there teams, but worked hard and it's paid off. Leino believed he was guaranteed a spot and I think that was a mistake. For the record, there are rookie defenceman who arent in their teams top 4 with more points then Leino and less games played. This guy doesnt deserve excuses, he hasnt earned it.

[Zetts 236]

I genuinely don't believe we'll be entirely healthy by the end of the season. And then roster restrictions come off, do they not?

[stevkrause 1,247]

Wrong. I'm sorry. It's impossible to continue this discussion.

Miller can stay. May will go down or be gone.

Miller will stay, May can Say. Leino can go down or be gone.... so be gone, because he's too egotistical to go back to GR where he belongs.

and you're right, it IS impossible to continue this discussion, because you know you're wrong and are too damn stubborn, or biased to admit it... it's called waiving a player, happens all the time...

[Russian Houdini 8]

When Leino can learn to stand up on skates I might start to gain hope. He was good playing over in Finland, but in the NHL there is actually physical contact during the game. Leino hasnt caught on to this yet.

Totally agree with this. Last night Leino looked like a princess out there. I am sorry, if you can't take a slight hit while having the puck you shouldn't be in the NHL.

I understand the Finnish perspective but you have to say if he doesn't start to produce in some way he should leave. I mean 1 goal in 23 games.

For me Leino is a clear choice... Abdelkader is the second guy. Although I want to see him come back some time in the future. He has the tenacity and has had a decent contribution. I feel like he is still learning.

And the third is anyone's guess. As for May, I don't want to get rid of him as he fights for the jersey. There isn't one guy who puts his gloves down like him in the team. He can turn morale up in a second. Besides him nobody has the toughness of May for me.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

When Leino can learn to stand up on skates I might start to gain hope. He was good playing over in Finland, but in the NHL there is actually physical contact during the game. Leino hasnt caught on to this yet.

How is it that he went 5g 4a 9pts in his first 13 NHL games playing on a line with Maltby and Draper last year? Were those 13 games special non-contact easy skating games? How is it that he was a point per game player in the preseason with only Datsyuk out-producing him?

Perhaps this isn't a case of someone who's missing a fundamental element of the NHL game and rather it's a case of a guy who's struggling and has zero confidence. We knew he'd be a boom or bust prospect when Holland signed him. Leino has no use on a checking line-- he never has. No one should've thought he'd be a productive checking line player. If Leino's not producing points he's useless. This year he's struggled to produce and thus he's been an epic fail so far.

I can't help but chuckle at the people (and this isn't directed just at you) who think they have Leino all figured out and act like he's got no upside. Apparently these people think they know more than Holland does about prospects because it seems that they think they had Leino pegged all along. Of course they're quick to forget Leino's success coming into this season. They're seeing a rookie at this absolute lowest point and behaving as if he's dragging this team down and he's a huge failure. Here's a shocker-- Leino was not a draft pick. He was not developed by the Wings-- he only played in the AHL for one season. He's cost the organization virtually nothing in terms of resources so if he fails it will hardly be a huge blow to the Wings.

Finally, even though he is playing like s*** he's not the source of the Wings' ills. He's not even remotely close to being responsible for the s***ty scoring right now. Look at Lidstrom, Rafalski, Datsyuk and Zetterberg-- none of them have performed up to expectation and all of them make at least 6 million dollars each. Zetterberg's goal total is horrible by his standards. Datsyuk's on pace for his worst season since his rookie year and Lidstrom's on pace for his worst season since the lockout. It's laughable how much s*** is thrown in Leino's face when he's a complimentary winger and a f***in' $800,000 a year rookie. Go ahead people-- s*** on Leino and pretend that the guys who make the real money and wear the letters on their chests aren't to blame.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Miller will stay, May can Say. Leino can go down or be gone.... so be gone, because he's too egotistical to go back to GR where he belongs.

and you're right, it IS impossible to continue this discussion, because you know you're wrong and are too damn stubborn, or biased to admit it... it's called waiving a player, happens all the time...

No he's not. He's a 26 year old man who moved to NA to play for the Wings in the NHL. He played for a year in the AHL and paid his dues. He gets paid significantly less to play in the AHL than he can make in Europe. He's not a frigging kid trying to make or break his career. He'll only take a financial loss in the AHL for so long before he goes back home and makes better money. How many 26 year old forwards stick around in the AHL hoping for NHL scraps? Not many compared to the guys who go overseas to maximize their earning potential before their careers are over. Hockey players have a limited window in which they can earn their money-- they could have a career-ending injury at any time and suddenly they're screwed.

[Z and D for the C 712]

He's having a better rookie season than Filppula did.

Nope.

Filppula scored 17 points in 73 games, that's .233 points per game. Leino has 7 points in 38 games, .184 ppg (Not even 14 points over 73 games, still less than Flip). Even if he plays in every single game for the rest of the year (except tomorrow because we know he's not playing) That gives him 14 points, but I'm sure that won't happen. And this is not even bringing in +/-.

Edited January 9, 2010 by Z and D for the C

[redwingfan19 293]

leino is soft as baby s*** and can't skate, he does not belong in the NHL. You could have all the talent in the world, but if you can't skate at the NHL level you will not make it.

/end thread

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

How is it that he went 5g 4a 9pts in his first 13 NHL games playing on a line with Maltby and Draper last year? Were those 13 games special non-contact easy skating games? How is it that he was a point per game player in the preseason with only Datsyuk out-producing him?

Perhaps this isn't a case of someone who's missing a fundamental element of the NHL game and rather it's a case of a guy who's struggling and has zero confidence. We knew he'd be a boom or bust prospect when Holland signed him. Leino has no use on a checking line-- he never has. No one should've thought he'd be a productive checking line player. If Leino's not producing points he's useless. This year he's struggled to produce and thus he's been an epic fail so far.

I can't help but chuckle at the people (and this isn't directed just at you) who think they have Leino all figured out and act like he's got no upside. Apparently these people think they know more than Holland does about prospects because it seems that they think they had Leino pegged all along. Of course they're quick to forget Leino's success coming into this season. They're seeing a rookie at this absolute lowest point and behaving as if he's dragging this team down and he's a huge failure. Here's a shocker-- Leino was not a draft pick. He was not developed by the Wings-- he only played in the AHL for one season. He's cost the organization virtually nothing in terms of resources so if he fails it will hardly be a huge blow to the Wings.

Finally, even though he is playing like s*** he's not the source of the Wings' ills. He's not even remotely close to being responsible for the s***ty scoring right now. Look at Lidstrom, Rafalski, Datsyuk and Zetterberg-- none of them have performed up to expectation and all of them make at least 6 million dollars each. Zetterberg's goal total is horrible by his standards. Datsyuk's on pace for his worst season since his rookie year and Lidstrom's on pace for his worst season since the lockout. It's laughable how much s*** is thrown in Leino's face when he's a complimentary winger and a f***in' $800,000 a year rookie. Go ahead people-- s*** on Leino and pretend that the guys who make the real money and wear the letters on their chests aren't to blame.

Don't you understand that all our stars are struggling because of Leino?

His laziness has rubbed off on Datsyuk, Lidstrom, Rafalski and Zetterberg. They've given up on hockey and life because of him.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Don't you understand that all our stars are struggling because of Leino?

His laziness has rubbed off on Datsyuk, Lidstrom, Rafalski and Zetterberg. They've given up on hockey and life because of him.

By the way people ***** about Leino you'd think that's what was happening.

[Rivalred 630]

News Flash, Brad May in for Leino....

[Icesurfer 75]

Zetterberg, Henrik $6,083,333

Datsyuk, Pavel $6,700,000

Cleary, Dan $2,800,000

Filppula, Val $3,000,000

Franzen, Johan $3,954,545

Jason Willliams $1,500,000

Patrick Eaves $500,000

Darren Helm $599,444

Todd Bertuzzi $1,500,000

Holmstrom, Tomas $2,250,000

Draper, Kris $1,583,333

Leino, Ville $800,000

Maltby, Kirk $883,333

Lidstrom, Nicklas $7,450,000

Rafalski, Brian $6,000,000

Stuart, Brad $3,750,000

Kronwall, Niklas $3,000,000

Ericsson, J $900,000

Lebda, Brett $650,000

Meech, Derek $483,333

Osgood, Chris $1,416,667

Howard,Jimmy $716,667

Lilja LTIR

This was the roster that put the Wings under the cap at the beginning of the season and this is the roster they will have to go back to when everyone comes back..... unless someone is released or traded. Miller has a two-way contract and I would love to see him stay instead of Leino.