Chris Osgood proves Jimmy Howard should be in goal for Red Wings

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

I can see your argument about the stretches, but Howard is young and can handle it - I think from here out, they should be on a 4 to 1 rotation (4 starts for Howard, 1 for Osgood)

The team is definitely making mental mistakes and yes, this is affecting the outcome more than the goaltending, but Osgood is doing NOTHING to prove he deserves to be in there, "rust" or not...

The point is - we NEED these points, and Howard has proven he should be playing at least 75% of the games from here out...

4 to 1 rotation is reasonable. However I doubt that is going to happen which bug the hell out of me, especially when goaltending isn't losing games right now.

[Shady Ultima 40]

I would like to see if Ozzy could get it going with a few games of play in a row. He gets dropped in only occasionally, which COULD explain him being rusty.

If he plays 3 games in a row and does not improve, then we definitely have a problem. Hopefully he gets a 'mental vacation' during the Olympic break and comes back with a vengeance. I'm no Ozzy lover, but I don't like seeing anyone on this team look as bad as he has been. I know Howard has a future here, and I was one of the people saying give him time at the beginning of the season, but Osgood is our past, and hopefully, still our present.

[Z and D for the C 712]

I think the first goal was s***ty last night. He plays way out of the net as if players can't change the angle, and then when they pass it down low osgood dived out towards him and left the net completely open. He's always done that s***.

But like I said, give him the next 2 starts and see what happens, but this should be his last chance.

Edited January 28, 2010 by Z and D for the C

[dallas27 7]

Let Osgood play 3 or 4 games in a row.

Let him get into a groove and build up some confidence and rhythm.

I'd wait until after this road trip to do it if the Wings want any shot at getting points away from Pittsburgh, San Jose, Anaheim and LA.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

My opinion is......

Howard's lateral movement in 150% better than Ozzies'.

He would have had goals 4 and 5.

And most likely, Miettenen's second goal would have hit Howard's left shoulder.

But this is just specualtion.

Ozzy's lateral movement was horrible last night but I think you can attribute that to rust as much as anything.

[JoeK35 4]

Let Osgood play 3 or 4 games in a row.

Let him get into a groove and build up some confidence and rhythm.

Yeah maybe when we're in the final stretch of the season and have clinched a playoff berth... The way I see it is that Ozzie would possibly play again Sunday at Pittsburgh or on a later date sometime during the back-to-back with San Jose and Anaheim in the first week of February. Other than that Howard will be getting similar stretches of where he'll start 5-6 consecutive games, unless he hits a little bit of a rut.

Looking at stats between the two, another reason why Howard's the #1 IMO.

J. Howard 18-11-5 .924 Sv% 2.30 GAA

C. Osgood 7-8-4 .891 Sv% 2.94 GAA

Ozzie's looking at 3.00 again this year. But that doesn't mean he can't turn it around.

Edited January 28, 2010 by JoeK35

[MCleveland89 122]

Ozzy's lateral movement was horrible last night but I think you can attribute that to rust as much as anything.

This was his problem. The Wild had many 2 on 1 chances, and Ozzy stopped them all. But if the Wild passes it across ice, he had no chance. Their first two goals were across ice passes, their third was a deflection, and their last two were also across ice passes. The fact that our defense is allowing these passes to get across ice doesn't help Ozzy out too much. This is a team sport, not a "let's rely on the goalie" sport.

[Pucks 66]

I was at the game last night. It was very deflating to watch that performance. The point about lateral movement is well taken, and here's why:

People forget a few things about Chris Osgood. First, he's 5'10", which is very small for a modern goaltender. Second, Chris Osgood was considered a "hybrid goaltender" for the bulk of his career, until he reinvented himself as more of a butterfly goaltender before the 2007-08 season. These two points are interrelated. Osgood's degree of success has always seemed overinflated compared to his size and apparent abilities. The reason he was so successful is that he played in Detroit with outstanding defenses that limited cross-ice passing. Anybody who has watched Osgood over the years probably has the image of Ozzie way out beyond the crease cutting down the angle on shooters and trapping the puck in his shoulder protector in a butterfly.

The problem is that Osgood is a little bit older now, which means that his footspeed (both laterally and in his ability to get out on an angle) are diminished. But the bigger problem is that defense is a mere shadow of what it was even 2 years ago. Lidstrom and Rafalski are aging fast. Stuart and Kronwall (when healthy) are still very good, but we're forced to give significant minutes to guys who are far less consistent. So, those cross-ice passes that never would've happened on the '98 or '08 Wings are happening quite a bit now.

What I saw last night was Osgood committing too early with the butterfly to sharp angle shots, which basically left the net wide-open on the Latendresse and Havlat goals. A larger goalie (even one Howard's size) would stay closer to the goalline and have a much better opportunity to make those saves. But I think it's too simplistic to say that Osgood was "rusty". He looked fine on straight shots and had good positioning. The issue with Osgood is that he changed his game to compensate for his size and remain effective on a good defensive team, but this is a very average defensive team now, and Osgood's movement is also beginning to diminish.

Having been to the Joe as far back as the 1996 Playoffs and watching Osgood, I'm amazed that I'm still watching him in the Winged Wheel in 2010 playing in Minnesota. But after last night, I had a sinking feeling I was witnessing the beginning (or the middle) of the end.

Excellent post man. Your obviously someone who understands the position. I was going to post something very similar but it probably would have came out too critical and some would have just threw it aside as Osgood bashing. This is exactly what I see from Osgood's game. It's not new IMO, but is is getting worse with the downgrade of our team Defense and Chris age.

[Motown4013 350]

Let Osgood play 3 or 4 games in a row.

Let him get into a groove and build up some confidence and rhythm.

You want a shot at Taylor Hall sweepstakes? lol

If we let Osgood have the next 3-4 starts, I doubt we make the playoffs because its such a logjam in the West. Howard is playing better...way better hockey right now- he is giving this team a chance every night. Osgood lets in 3 goals on 6 shots and thats unacceptable. The back-up job is to be ready to step in...and Ozzie's stellar play has clearly moved him into the back-up role.

GO JIMMY

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

You want a shot at Taylor Hall sweepstakes? lol

If we let Osgood have the next 3-4 starts, I doubt we make the playoffs because its such a logjam in the West. Howard is playing better...way better hockey right now- he is giving this team a chance every night. Osgood lets in 3 goals on 6 shots and thats unacceptable. The back-up job is to be ready to step in...and Ozzie's stellar play has clearly moved him into the back-up role.

GO JIMMY

Honestly?

Have people stopped watching the past few games?

Neither goaltender is winning, so why exactly is it so imperative that we focus on which goaltender should play?

[Konnan511 1,736]

our problem last night was uninspired defense and terrible vision(not seeing) from Ozzie.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

You want a shot at Taylor Hall sweepstakes? lol

If we let Osgood have the next 3-4 starts, I doubt we make the playoffs because its such a logjam in the West. Howard is playing better...way better hockey right now- he is giving this team a chance every night. Osgood lets in 3 goals on 6 shots and thats unacceptable. The back-up job is to be ready to step in...and Ozzie's stellar play has clearly moved him into the back-up role.

GO JIMMY

Really? That's why Howard has exactly one win in his previous five starts against teams directly competing with the Red Wings for playoff positioning.

I'm not sure it even matters which goalie is playing right now. The fact is Howard wasn't getting the job done either if the standard is getting the team wins. So, the logic around here goes like this: Ozzie is to blame when the team loses and the defense only stinks in Howard's starts?

Edited January 28, 2010 by GoWings1905

[GoWings1905 2,694]

Honestly?

Have people stopped watching the past few games?

Neither goaltender is winning, so why exactly is it so imperative that we focus on which goaltender should play?

Exactly. Some people here make it seem like Howard was racking up all kinds of wins lately and somehow the season is lost by giving Ozzie a couple of starts.

Goaltending isn't the issue. The Red Wings stink right now. Every single one of them except Lidstrom.

[commadore183 103]

Analysis like this is pretty dangerous. Ozzy did actually make a few really good stops, and it just doesn't work to guess which ones either guy would have let in.

IMO, the team would have let either guy down. Howard having a really good game probably would have still let in 3-4, maybe even 5. Who knows.

I just don't like the way Babcock handles our goalies. Howard has been clearly better and I agree that he should have been and continue to start 80% of the games. The problem is that Howard now looks burned out from starting near 20 in a row, and Osgood is still struggling - month-long gaps in play can't be helping that.

4 games for Howard, 1 game for Osgood, rinse and repeat for the rest of the season unless something changes. I would wager that both of our guys would be playing better if we had been doing that for the last couple of months.

My thoughts exactly. Best to keep Ozzie "warmed up" and ready to go if/when Howard starts having bad games, or, knowing this team's luck, gets injured during play. Best be safe than sorry, I say.

[Guest Crymson]

According to the fans here, no goalie is good enough unless he's borderline perfect. And if one goalie isn't playing well, then it's sure the other goalie is going to be way better. Naturally. Of course.

[Carman 387]

According to the fans here, no goalie is good enough unless he's borderline perfect. And if one goalie isn't playing well, then it's sure the other goalie is going to be way better. Naturally. Of course.

Well I'm pleased with Howard's overall performance so far this year.

[CenterIce 83]

I read that article, but a lot of the same arguments were being said about Howard, when he didn't get a lot of time to prove his worth. Goalies need to get into a groove.

[Dano33 41]

I read that article, but a lot of the same arguments were being said about Howard, when he didn't get a lot of time to prove his worth. Goalies need to get into a groove.

The difference is Osgood did this last year too, when he was getting steady playing time. He's had chances to get in his groove.

[Guest malelion55]

Both of them are s***ty.....

[CenterIce 83]

The difference is Osgood did this last year too, when he was getting steady playing time. He's had chances to get in his groove.

And he played pretty well in the playoffs.

[Broken 16 381]

And he played pretty well in the playoffs.

Ya... because that kind of switch flipping will happen year after year...

Get real.

Sorry, that was the exception. Not the rule. Keep drinking the 'Ozzy will turn it on in the playoffs' Kool-Aid. I'm not buyin it. And if he does somehow miraculously turn it on in the playoffs... then f*** him even more for making the regular season harder than it should have been.

Edited January 28, 2010 by Broken 16

[bdavis 28]

Ya... because that kind of switch flipping will happen year after year...

Get real.

Sorry, that was the exception. Not the rule. Keep drinking the 'Ozzy will turn it on in the playoffs' Kool-Aid. I'm not buyin it. And if he does somehow miraculously turn it on in the playoffs... then f*** him even more for making the regular season harder than it should have been.

I agree with you. He should be consistent on a regular basis, not just flipping a "switch" when in the playoffs. If he has the ability to turn up the intensity of his game, why the hell can't he just play like that all of the time? Don't get me wrong, he is a great goalie at times. He is just inconsistent. More like a short circuit.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

My thoughts exactly. Best to keep Ozzie "warmed up" and ready to go if/when Howard starts having bad games, or, knowing this team's luck, gets injured during play. Best be safe than sorry, I say.

This.

Give Osgood enough to whet his appetite (and two in a row if he plays well enough for it) but give Howard more opportunities to steal a game for us since he has already done so this season.

[ltgator333 3]

Well.. I've been trying to avoid this thread, but before I deleted the game from the DVR I went through and watched the goals vs Detroit and...

Those were all decent to quality scoring chances. And Minnesota buried them. And would've irregardless of who was on the ice.

It just to me further cements my ongoing suspicion that some people just absolutely love to hate Chris Osgood. I see on MLive that apparently the sensationalist sports media has fully figured it out as well. Awesome.

At this point I'll be out with it- I honestly think Ozzy's a slightly above average goaltender for the whole of his career thusfar. And really, considering how long he's just did what it is that he does, there's only a few franchises that could've properly benefited from his talent, Detroit being one of them. It just sickens me that a nearly HOF-worthy goaltender that has played most of his career in this town and really for the sake of his legacy, he'd be better off playing anywhere else.

I'm not going to bother explaining it, and I'm not arguing points with anybody, period. Being as the way I think about it there logically can't be any point.

Edited January 29, 2010 by ltgator333

[Broken 16 381]

Well.. I've been trying to avoid this thread, but before I deleted the game from the DVR I went through and watched the goals vs Detroit and...

Those were all decent to quality scoring chances. And Minnesota buried them. And would've irregardless of who was on the ice.

It just to me further cements my ongoing suspicion that some people just absolutely love to hate Chris Osgood. I see on MLive that apparently the sensationalist sports media has fully figured it out as well. Awesome.

At this point I'll be out with it- I honestly think Ozzy's a slightly above average goaltender for the whole of his career thusfar. And really, considering how long he's just did what it is that he does, there's only a few franchises that could've properly benefited from his talent, Detroit being one of them. It just sickens me that a nearly HOF-worthy goaltender that has played most of his career in this town and really for the sake of his legacy, he'd be better off playing anywhere else.

I'm not going to bother explaining it, and I'm not arguing points with anybody, period. Being as the way I think about it there logically can't be any point.

As much as Osgood deserves appreciation for past accomplishments from the fans, the fans deserve appreciation from Osgood for helping to pay his salary on a team that has been built to win for a long time. Osgood owes it to his boss, his coach, his team and his fans to play with intensity every time he steps onto the ice. Not just in the playoffs. The guy sleepwalks through regular seasons like he is entitled to something. While that may not be entirely true. It sure does look like it. People act like we owe him something. Wtf?

From where I'm sitting, Osgood is the unappreciative one.