stevkrause 1,247 Report post Posted February 11, 2010 Screw that. Lecavalier and St Louis are bums - why not just get Crosby and Malkin? because then we'd all have to look at them in Wing's sweaters and the vomit that would cover the JLA floors would simply be too much to clean up... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yzerman191 37 Report post Posted February 11, 2010 The loyalty of the fans in this organization just amazes me. Draper, Maltby, Holmstrom, and Osgood have all been treated well by upper management for a good reason - they were all solid parts of several championship teams. Loyalty to players who deserve it is not killing this team. I would argue, rather, that by being loyalty to our players, we attract interest from free agents all around who see and hear how well the Red Wings treat their players. We also see that players within the organization often don't want to leave, and sometimes resign for contracts lower than their market value. I think the extra loyalty all pays off in the long run. The players I keep seeing listed - Holmstrom, Draper, Maltby, and Osgood - have not been the problem for the most part. They have all played their roles very well this season. Osgood is dying to get in there, work the rust off, and lead us to another SCF; he just hasn't been given the opportunity. Draper is an integral part of one of the best lines we've seen this season. Holmstrom is one behind Datsyuk and Zetterberg (the team leaders) in goals scored. And unlike Abdelkader, Bertuzzi, Helm, Cleary, Filppula, and Williams, Maltby actually has a neutral plus-and-minus rating. Besides, who do we have to replace the four of them? We don't have some stud backup goaltender waiting in the AHL; we've got a couple guys who could stand to benefit from a couple more years of maturation down there. We don't have a whole core of talented forwards to replace Maltby, Draper, and Holmstrom; rather, we've got a bunch of scrubs who aren't AHL ready. You guys need to get real; these depth guys aren't the problem, and our loyalty to our players isn't what is hindering our chances this year. Our problem is injuries mixed with underachieving by the players we need most. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevkrause 1,247 Report post Posted February 11, 2010 The loyalty of the fans in this organization just amazes me. Draper, Maltby, Holmstrom, and Osgood have all been treated well by upper management for a good reason - they were all solid parts of several championship teams. Loyalty to players who deserve it is not killing this team. I would argue, rather, that by being loyalty to our players, we attract interest from free agents all around who see and hear how well the Red Wings treat their players. We also see that players within the organization often don't want to leave, and sometimes resign for contracts lower than their market value. I think the extra loyalty all pays off in the long run. The players I keep seeing listed - Holmstrom, Draper, Maltby, and Osgood - have not been the problem for the most part. They have all played their roles very well this season. Osgood is dying to get in there, work the rust off, and lead us to another SCF; he just hasn't been given the opportunity. Draper is an integral part of one of the best lines we've seen this season. Holmstrom is one behind Datsyuk and Zetterberg (the team leaders) in goals scored. And unlike Abdelkader, Bertuzzi, Helm, Cleary, Filppula, and Williams, Maltby actually has a neutral plus-and-minus rating. Besides, who do we have to replace the four of them? We don't have some stud backup goaltender waiting in the AHL; we've got a couple guys who could stand to benefit from a couple more years of maturation down there. We don't have a whole core of talented forwards to replace Maltby, Draper, and Holmstrom; rather, we've got a bunch of scrubs who aren't AHL ready. You guys need to get real; these depth guys aren't the problem, and our loyalty to our players isn't what is hindering our chances this year. Our problem is injuries mixed with underachieving by the players we need most. exactly. most people on this board just don't and probably never will realize it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
13dangledangle 968 Report post Posted February 11, 2010 exactly. most people on this board just don't and probably never will realize it. The loyalty thing is a double edged sword to me, but only in the last year or so would I even think about trading some of them...yes Drapes maltby homer are all safe, but I feel Ozzy could/should and though doubtful I hope he goes along with Flippula. I think flip is an awesome talent but a large trade dealing Willy Flip and Oz (maybe even big rig) would bring in the likes of something fantasic! I mean Conks back in a wing wheel with J Ho!! I just don't get sitting back while all other teams seem to be looking better and younger every day, we have to deal to keep up or fall behind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevkrause 1,247 Report post Posted February 11, 2010 The loyalty thing is a double edged sword to me, but only in the last year or so would I even think about trading some of them...yes Drapes maltby homer are all safe, but I feel Ozzy could/should and though doubtful I hope he goes along with Flippula. I think flip is an awesome talent but a large trade dealing Willy Flip and Oz (maybe even big rig) would bring in the likes of something fantasic! I mean Conks back in a wing wheel with J Ho!! I just don't get sitting back while all other teams seem to be looking better and younger every day, we have to deal to keep up or fall behind. You also have to factor in trade value - you'd get NOTHING for Osgood and he also has that playoff consistency, which is nice to have in your back pocket when riding a young goaltender like Howard... Also, trading Flip is insane - you are not going to get a better value for 3 mil a season, anything we got in return for the same cap hit, that would actually be a reasonable trade (remember, we are up against the cap, can't bring in extra salary) would be a downgrade to Flip and he hasn't even CLOSE to peaked yet, his prime years are still coming - I've said it before and I stand by it - Flip is capable of 70-80 pt seasons once 100% healthy and playing top 6 minutes... next, giving up on E are the type of trades that bite you in the ass - look who his d partners have been all year - a guy can't grow with that s*** support, every mistake he makes is amplified 10 fold, whereas, if he had a competent D partner, his mistakes would be covered... it's called developing as a rookie - there will be some bumps along the way... also... we are younger, a LOT younger, that's part of our growing pains this year... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ZetterbergFourty Report post Posted February 11, 2010 Screw that. Lecavalier and St Louis are bums - why not just get Crosby and Malkin? I agree, go with Thornton and Heatley instead. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevkrause 1,247 Report post Posted February 11, 2010 I agree, go with Thornton and Heatley instead. better yet, clone prime-era Gretzky and prime-era Howe and get both of them... my point is - people need to stop treating trade scenarios like it's the EA Sports NHL series on XBOX or PS3 and remember there's this crazy little thing called the salary cap... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
13dangledangle 968 Report post Posted February 11, 2010 You also have to factor in trade value - you'd get NOTHING for Osgood and he also has that playoff consistency, which is nice to have in your back pocket when riding a young goaltender like Howard... Also, trading Flip is insane - you are not going to get a better value for 3 mil a season, anything we got in return for the same cap hit, that would actually be a reasonable trade (remember, we are up against the cap, can't bring in extra salary) would be a downgrade to Flip and he hasn't even CLOSE to peaked yet, his prime years are still coming - I've said it before and I stand by it - Flip is capable of 70-80 pt seasons once 100% healthy and playing top 6 minutes... next, giving up on E are the type of trades that bite you in the ass - look who his d partners have been all year - a guy can't grow with that s*** support, every mistake he makes is amplified 10 fold, whereas, if he had a competent D partner, his mistakes would be covered... it's called developing as a rookie - there will be some bumps along the way... also... we are younger, a LOT younger, that's part of our growing pains this year... This is all true! But I do feel there are a few teams near the top of the standings that could use a goalie like Ozzy for a real playoff run(though I may regret it in may lol). As for Flip I completely agree that he hasn't reached his poential yet thus another reason why he's good bait, he may put up 70-80 someday but 55-60 of those are secondary assists~not saying there not important~but we need a SNIPER! Rene Bourque is under 3mil, as is Perron, Oshie, Panalfo, Ethan Moreau, Pisani, Frolov, Afinoganov and even Mikko Koivu is 3.2...I just think Flip is not the "deal" everyone says/thinks he is, we could add a top six scorer for him a Jwilly that not many could reget! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ZetterbergFourty Report post Posted February 11, 2010 better yet, clone prime-era Gretzky and prime-era Howe and get both of them... my point is - people need to stop treating trade scenarios like it's the EA Sports NHL series on XBOX or PS3 and remember there's this crazy little thing called the salary cap... Hahaha true true. Those newer games has a salary cap, but I can still pull off absolutely outrageous trades. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevkrause 1,247 Report post Posted February 11, 2010 This is all true! But I do feel there are a few teams near the top of the standings that could use a goalie like Ozzy for a real playoff run(though I may regret it in may lol). As for Flip I completely agree that he hasn't reached his poential yet thus another reason why he's good bait, he may put up 70-80 someday but 55-60 of those are secondary assists~not saying there not important~but we need a SNIPER! Rene Bourque is under 3mil, as is Perron, Oshie, Panalfo, Ethan Moreau, Pisani, Frolov, Afinoganov and even Mikko Koivu is 3.2...I just think Flip is not the "deal" everyone says/thinks he is, we could add a top six scorer for him a Jwilly that not many could reget! Once again - salary for salary and value for value - people seem to overlook what they have in Flip Bourque - 28 years old: 53 18 23 41 +5 - 1.35 cap hit - last year of deal .77 PPG(points per game average) *Calgary would want a kings ransom and a lot more than just Flip - plus... he HAS peaked - no thanks Perron - 21 years old: 60 15 18 33 -10 - .918 cap hit - last year of deal .55 PPG *St Louis is not willing to give up on a 21 year old stud and would want a LOT more in return, also in division - neither side would make this deal Oshie - 23 years old: 56 11 22 33 -4 - 1.275 cap hit - 1 year left on deal .59 PPG *See reasons above Pandolfo - 35 years old: 42 4 5 9 -10 - 2.5 cap hit - 1 year left on deal .21 PPG *Stats and cap hit should say it all... he's older, on decline and Flip is FAR better - no thanks Moreau - 34 years old: 58 5 6 11 -14 - 2 cap hit - 1 year left .19 PPG *Don't need more leadership with lack of points, also older and on decline - Flip also better - no thanks Pisani - 33 years old: 20 2 0 2 -10 - 2.5 cap hit - last year of deal .10 PPG *Constantly out with Collitis and hasn't been the same since 04 - also older - DEFINITE no thanks Frolov - 27 years old: 58 13 24 37 -4 - 2.9 cap hit - last year of deal .64 PPG *last year of deal, so it'd basically be a rental - also known to take shifts off - don't think he'd be a Babcock type of guy - we'll call this one a push, but I still think he has close to peaked, wheras Flip hasn't - no thanks Afinogenov - 30 years old: 58 18 27 45 -9 - .8 cap hit - last year of deal .76 PPG *Cut from Buf because of lack of work ethic, known to take shifts off and doesn't play defense - AT ALL - NO THANKS Mikko Koivu - not even going to do the research - he's team captain, Minny loves him and we even the cap space wouldn't line up - completely unreasonable. The comparison: Filpulla - 25 years old: 33 6 16 22 -7 - 3 cap hit - locked up until end of 2013 - 3 years left on deal after this year .67 PPG Only 2 guys on that list have better PPG averages and NONE are better defensively. Once again, anything we did would be a downgrade for cap space... This is a perfect example of a grass is greener scenario - trust me, you do NOT want to lose Flip... he is underrated and will only get better... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevkrause 1,247 Report post Posted February 11, 2010 Hahaha true true. Those newer games has a salary cap, but I can still pull off absolutely outrageous trades. I traded Rafalski for Alexander Semin straight up and got a 2nd round pick for Lebda... then proceded to trade Meech and a 1st for Tyler Myers... if only that were real life... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
13dangledangle 968 Report post Posted February 11, 2010 Once again - salary for salary and value for value - people seem to overlook what they have in Flip Bourque - 28 years old: 53 18 23 41 +5 - 1.35 cap hit - last year of deal .77 PPG(points per game average) *Calgary would want a kings ransom and a lot more than just Flip - plus... he HAS peaked - no thanks Perron - 21 years old: 60 15 18 33 -10 - .918 cap hit - last year of deal .55 PPG *St Louis is not willing to give up on a 21 year old stud and would want a LOT more in return, also in division - neither side would make this deal Oshie - 23 years old: 56 11 22 33 -4 - 1.275 cap hit - 1 year left on deal .59 PPG *See reasons above Pandolfo - 35 years old: 42 4 5 9 -10 - 2.5 cap hit - 1 year left on deal .21 PPG *Stats and cap hit should say it all... he's older, on decline and Flip is FAR better - no thanks Moreau - 34 years old: 58 5 6 11 -14 - 2 cap hit - 1 year left .19 PPG *Don't need more leadership with lack of points, also older and on decline - Flip also better - no thanks Pisani - 33 years old: 20 2 0 2 -10 - 2.5 cap hit - last year of deal .10 PPG *Constantly out with Collitis and hasn't been the same since 04 - also older - DEFINITE no thanks Frolov - 27 years old: 58 13 24 37 -4 - 2.9 cap hit - last year of deal .64 PPG *last year of deal, so it'd basically be a rental - also known to take shifts off - don't think he'd be a Babcock type of guy - we'll call this one a push, but I still think he has close to peaked, wheras Flip hasn't - no thanks Afinogenov - 30 years old: 58 18 27 45 -9 - .8 cap hit - last year of deal .76 PPG *Cut from Buf because of lack of work ethic, known to take shifts off and doesn't play defense - AT ALL - NO THANKS Mikko Koivu - not even going to do the research - he's team captain, Minny loves him and we even the cap space wouldn't line up - completely unreasonable. The comparison: Filpulla - 25 years old: 33 6 16 22 -7 - 3 cap hit - locked up until end of 2013 - 3 years left on deal after this year .67 PPG Only 2 guys on that list have better PPG averages and NONE are better defensively. Once again, anything we did would be a downgrade for cap space... This is a perfect example of a grass is greener scenario - trust me, you do NOT want to lose Flip... he is underrated and will only get better... ......True say Mr.K! It most certainly is a grass is greener thing, and I would simply live the wings to be involved in a Blockbuster move for once! ~nice research by the way~ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Duguay 0 Report post Posted February 11, 2010 Here's a different point of view... send Lilja down to the minors until he won't count against the cap. There is no way that anyone picks him up. With his salary and long term concussion that he's coming off of, he won't get claimed. Let him play some more games in GR then bring him in when they can. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 5,153 Report post Posted February 11, 2010 I would say, if the Wings are looking to better their team, their aren't many players who are "SAFE" from the deadline deals. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
russianswede919293 95 Report post Posted February 11, 2010 http://www.detnews.com/article/20100211/OP...0465/1128/rss16 With all those scouts it certainly seems like it could be Williams, or maybe even something bigger. I doubt that many teams showed up to scout Lebda... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcom007 1,465 Report post Posted February 12, 2010 Even you can't say Filppula doesn't deserve the second line center spot. At least, I hope you're not that biased. Zetterberg should absolutely without a doubt be centering the 2nd line. Dats on the 1st. Flip on 3rd. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevkrause 1,247 Report post Posted February 12, 2010 Zetterberg should absolutely without a doubt be centering the 2nd line. Dats on the 1st. Flip on 3rd. You're both right and wrong... they both should be top 6, winger or center is subjective, but they are both top 6 guys. Period. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcom007 1,465 Report post Posted February 12, 2010 You're both right and wrong... they both should be top 6, winger or center is subjective, but they are both top 6 guys. Period. Not on the Detroit Red Wings. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevkrause 1,247 Report post Posted February 12, 2010 Not on the Detroit Red Wings. Yes... on any team and if you think otherwise, you clearly don't watch a lot of hockey... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Four Report post Posted February 12, 2010 I want Semin! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dirtydangles 1,328 Report post Posted February 12, 2010 I want Semin! don't we all.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doc Holliday 1,888 Report post Posted February 12, 2010 don't we all.... Not my girlfriend... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Echolalia 2,961 Report post Posted February 12, 2010 Not my girlfriend... don't worry man valentines day is coming if she doesn't put out she gets no flowers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doc Holliday 1,888 Report post Posted February 12, 2010 don't worry man valentines day is coming if she doesn't put out she gets no flowers. You got it backwards my friend... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Echolalia 2,961 Report post Posted February 12, 2010 You got it backwards my friend... fix'd .srewolf on steg ehs tuo tup t'nseod ehs fi gnimoc si yad senitnelav nam yrrow t'nod Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
