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GMRwings1983

Questioning the Wings Leadership

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I'm putting most of my blame on Babcock, especially a loss like tonight. For all of his strong qualities, he is a downright AWFUL coach when it comes to holding a lead. Babcock has blown leads very frequently in Detroit, but the third period collapses this season especially are unacceptable when the team is so desperate for points.

Getting outshot 15-4 at home in the third is pathetic. Chicago dominated on Sunday too and we got lucky there the lead was big enough. Babcock's two biggest flaws are becoming more glaring this season: he can't coach with a lead and he mishandles goalies.

Good point.

Even Canada struggled in 3rd periods in the Olympics.

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Guest Howard He Do It?!   
Guest Howard He Do It?!

It's part McCrimmon's fault, but I personally place more of the responsibility on the players...It's not like McCrimmon tells Kronwall to make a goal-mouth pass in front of Howard.

You don't see the tiny speaker in Kronwall's ear and the microphone on McCrimmon's jacket?

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:angry: I am sick and tired of the this team holding on to the past. ITS TIME to clean out the old. holding on to the past is showing this season. I trust Kenny Holland, but enough is enough......

TIME TO GO:

Draper - I don't care how many faceoffs he wins.......

Maltby - damaged goods

Lebda - useless

Osgood - time is up

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I make up of this team is quite different them what we have become accustomed too especially with the number and quality of the players that left and add to that the number of injuries we have had to contend with. We cannot play the puck possession style as well as we have in the past and we need more players willing to play some old time hockey and muck hard in the corners, drive strong to the net, shoot the puck with some effort behind the shot, block pucks and fight hard to win the individual battles.... this won't happen with a Euro-filled team. Hopefully we can get some better balance this off season and find some players to fit the bill capable of playing both puck possession if its working and also good old fashioned hockey of its not. Having mediocre goalies on this mediocre team is exposing them as a serious hole also... more then ever with the lack of fire power to hide them under.

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It's part McCrimmon's fault, but I personally place more of the responsibility on the players...It's not like McCrimmon tells Kronwall to make a goal-mouth pass in front of Howard.

I think it IS coaching. Remember when Detroit sucked hard on the PK this year? Then Jacques Lemaire taught Babcock how to properly run a PK then magically they were good.

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I'm putting most of my blame on Babcock, especially a loss like tonight. For all of his strong qualities, he is a downright AWFUL coach when it comes to holding a lead. Babcock has blown leads very frequently in Detroit, but the third period collapses this season especially are unacceptable when the team is so desperate for points.

Getting outshot 15-4 at home in the third is pathetic. Chicago dominated on Sunday too and we got lucky there the lead was big enough. Babcock's two biggest flaws are becoming more glaring this season: he can't coach with a lead and he mishandles goalies.

How the hell does Babcock hold a lead from the bench? In the end the players are on the ice and have to do the work. Babcock got raving reviews from the Canadian players from the Olympics and the coaching staff and everyone else... there is only so much he can do. One thing he can't is play for the players... they have to want to do what he says. Also, how is he mishandling the goalies? We are starved for points and he is playing the goalie that is playing the best... The End! He doesn't have the wiggle room to throw Osgood in to lose games until he can find his way out of his slump and play better. Howard is playing better then Osgood (which isn't saying much) and so he gets the starts... neither goalie is playing great but Howard is playing better then Osgood.

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Guest micah   
Guest micah

This is a mediocre team. Mediocre D. Mediocre goaltending. Mediocre skill. Mediocre leadership. We should expect them to be around the middle of the pack, because they just aren't that good. This team isn't good enough to dominate its opponenents consistantly and it doesn't have the heart to do the little things that make mediocre teams into contenders. There was only one Jarome Iginla on the ice last night and he was on the other team. A goal and an assist when his team needed him most - leading by example, yelling from the bench, willing to do anything necesarry to get that win. The league doesn't have a surplus of Captains like that, and it sucks that all teams can't have one, but that's the way it goes.

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I think it IS coaching. Remember when Detroit sucked hard on the PK this year? Then Jacques Lemaire taught Babcock how to properly run a PK then magically they were good.

I honestly have no recollection of Lemaire teaching Babcock anything :unsure:

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This is a mediocre team. Mediocre D. Mediocre goaltending. Mediocre skill. Mediocre leadership. We should expect them to be around the middle of the pack, because they just aren't that good. This team isn't good enough to dominate its opponenents consistantly and it doesn't have the heart to do the little things that make mediocre teams into contenders. There was only one Jarome Iginla on the ice last night and he was on the other team. A goal and an assist when his team needed him most - leading by example, yelling from the bench, willing to do anything necesarry to get that win. The league doesn't have a surplus of Captains like that, and it sucks that all teams can't have one, but that's the way it goes.

Very nicely put Micah! Maybe this team has the pieces capable of making this a better team but the heart is not there most of the time... and inspired effort by one or 2 player now and then isn't going to cut it. I wish we could inject Helm's effort and work ethic into the rest of the team... then we'd see some change immediately

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How the hell does Babcock hold a lead from the bench? In the end the players are on the ice and have to do the work. Babcock got raving reviews from the Canadian players from the Olympics and the coaching staff and everyone else... there is only so much he can do. One thing he can't is play for the players... they have to want to do what he says. Also, how is he mishandling the goalies? We are starved for points and he is playing the goalie that is playing the best... The End! He doesn't have the wiggle room to throw Osgood in to lose games until he can find his way out of his slump and play better. Howard is playing better then Osgood (which isn't saying much) and so he gets the starts... neither goalie is playing great but Howard is playing better then Osgood.

Agree with the bolded sentence 100%.

If Bowman were coaching this team - half the players would be sitiing due to their bone-headed plays.

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Guest mindfly   
Guest mindfly

This is a mediocre team. Mediocre D. Mediocre goaltending. Mediocre skill. Mediocre leadership. We should expect them to be around the middle of the pack, because they just aren't that good. This team isn't good enough to dominate its opponenents consistantly and it doesn't have the heart to do the little things that make mediocre teams into contenders. There was only one Jarome Iginla on the ice last night and he was on the other team. A goal and an assist when his team needed him most - leading by example, yelling from the bench, willing to do anything necesarry to get that win. The league doesn't have a surplus of Captains like that, and it sucks that all teams can't have one, but that's the way it goes.

But they were able to dominate games during the 07/08 season with a pretty much similar roster....does that mean other team's gotten way better?

Edited by mindfly

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I honestly have no recollection of Lemaire teaching Babcock anything :unsure:

From this article

Babcock makes no secret that in Detroit, he has taken many of Lemaire's beliefs and polished them for himself. In fact, the Red Wings use Lemaire's precise penalty kill.

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I'm not so sure it's a leadership issue, it may very well be, but I also think it could be an issue of the players that need the leadership are getting it and are unable to respond. I think that Lidstrom played well enough last night, as did the top line, arguably the second.

Guys that I noticed were the likes of Cleary, Flip, Willy, and Miller. They were either near non-factors in the game and/or got shut down the same way repeatedly (Flip). These are all skilled-enough players that didn't do jack last night. Then there's Z- I don't think there's anything wrong with the guy other than he needs a winger who can go in the corners/boards and get him the puck. He's good at it himself considering his size, but considering his size he shouldn't have to be the only guy on his line that can do it. As for Cleary and Williams, they're two skill guys who just don't seem to have another gear. Cleary has been flat out disappointing this year imo. Miller- his flashes of brilliance appear to be over, and I really see no reason for him to be anywhere outside the bottom two lines. If he can play better than he is, let him prove it like anyone else has to.

I do get tired of Babcock doing what appears to be playing favorites- and speaking of which anyone notice how Howard's starting to burn out? I am TOTALLY NOT knocking the guy- the fact he's playing as well as he is makes me want him around Detroit for a long time, but he's not as sharp as he's been in the past and you can't help but wonder if it's due to the superstar goalie level of games he's played. The problem with the situation is obvious- Babcock has painted himself into a corner where the only escape is for Howard to hold up or Osgood to pull something out of his arse, again .

Oh and, I am finally liking the bottom defensive pairing. It's the top two pairings I am absolutely sick and tired of. Not the players themselves, but the way they're used. You've got two defensemen that can't/won't hit together, with two wrecking machines together. Get a clue and spread it out already!

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I'm with Micah and The Secret on this one. With the exception of a couple players it seems like there's no drive or heart out on the ice. The team for the most part seems complacent and like it's going thru the motions. Everyone thinks the likes of a Hudler is the missing piece because he can score a goal or two, but how about backing checking hard, blocking shots, and caring about not being scored on. It's been said defense wins championships.

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Guest micah   
Guest micah

But they were able to dominate games during the 07/08 season with a pretty much similar roster....does that mean other team's gotten way better?

No, we've gotton worse. The roster in 07/08 was not all that similar.

For the playoffs, we had Dallas Drake and Darren McCarty playing in most of the games. These guys don't contribute much on the scorboard, but they do contribute what Lidstrom either cannot or chooses not to - a "whatever it takes" attitude.

Datsyuk and Zetterberg were playing like Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

Aging Haasek, prime Ozzie and young Howard is better than aging Ozzie and almost-prime Howard.

Lids was the best Dman in the league in 07/08. Many nights he isn't the best Dman on the ice.

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Guest mindfly   
Guest mindfly

No, we've gotton worse. The roster in 07/08 was not all that similar.

For the playoffs, we had Dallas Drake and Darren McCarty playing in most of the games. These guys don't contribute much on the scorboard, but they do contribute what Lidstrom either cannot or chooses not to - a "whatever it takes" attitude.

Datsyuk and Zetterberg were playing like Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

Aging Haasek, prime Ozzie and young Howard is better than aging Ozzie and almost-prime Howard.

Lids was the best Dman in the league in 07/08. Many nights he isn't the best Dman on the ice.

I agree that Drake was awesome but Mccarty.. come on.

Datsyuk plays like datsyuk but i agree that zetterberg is s*** so thats a bad one for detroit

So osgood goes from prime osgood to aging osgood in two years.. wow :o.. howard is almost prime now? hah it's his first season his prime is maybe in 5-6 years

Lidstrom today is a little bit worse than 08-lids but as he's playing now in the 2nd part of the season he's the best dman on ice 80-90% of the times atleast.

Edited by mindfly

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Guest micah   
Guest micah

I agree that Drake was awesome but Mccarty.. come on.

Datsyuk plays like datsyuk but i agree that zetterberg is s*** so thats a bad one for detroit

So osgood goes from prime osgood to aging osgood in two years.. wow :o.. howard is almost prime now? hah it's his first season his prime is maybe in 5-6 years

Lidstrom today is a little bit worse than 08-lids but as he's playing now in the 2nd part of the season he's the best dman on ice 80-90% of the times atleast.

I disagree with most here.

I think Mac made a idfference - though if he did its certainly a hard difference to measure.

This is the beginning of Howard's prime. He will not be a better goalie in 5-6 years than he is today.

Lidstrom is not even close to being the perfect machine he was in 07/08. He hasn't just fallen off a little bit, he's fallen more than I thought possible in 2 years for a great player who seldom gets hit or hurt. He's certainly still above average, but it looks to me that his days counted among the league's best are behind him.

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No, we've gotton worse. The roster in 07/08 was not all that similar.

For the playoffs, we had Dallas Drake and Darren McCarty playing in most of the games. These guys don't contribute much on the scorboard, but they do contribute what Lidstrom either cannot or chooses not to - a "whatever it takes" attitude.

Datsyuk and Zetterberg were playing like Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

Aging Haasek, prime Ozzie and young Howard is better than aging Ozzie and almost-prime Howard.

Lids was the best Dman in the league in 07/08. Many nights he isn't the best Dman on the ice.

1. You are once again overvaluing the roles of guys like Drake and Mac, considering there are plenty of guys on the roster who have their same attitude yet nothing is getting done.

2. Who has been playing better than Lidstrom? Can't be Rafalski. Can't be Stuart. Can't be Kronwall. Can't be Ericsson. Is it Lilja? Maybe Lebda?

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