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Red Wings GM Ken Holland hasn't given up on wandering Jiri Hudler


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#81 Z and D for the C

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 08:42 PM

Big difference? Hudler was playing with guys like Draper and Maltby. Give Filppula those linemates, and see what it does to his PPG. And btw, Hudler scored more at even strength than on the power play. He also scored more at even strength than Teemu Selanne, who had the same number of power play points. Hudler and Selanne played comparable total time on ice in each situation. Does this make Hudler a comparable player to Teemu Selanne in offensive capability? His offensive numbers in all situations were very similar in 2008-09.

The simple facts are, Hudler was always a threat to score, and produced a ton of offense for the Wings in 08-09. Filppula has been OK offensively, but has never been as much of an offensive powerhouse for the Wings, in terms of creating offense on his own out of nothing, playmaking ability, or simply finishing skills. Stats can be manipulated to show whatever you want, but Filppula is not as good offensively as Hudler, and has not been.

If Hudler were given the top-six scoring role he deserved, he'd be a 70 or 80 point player. Add 40% to his ES production in 08-09 to give him 1st/2nd line type ES time, and he gets another 11 points. That's a 68 point winger-assuming his point production isn't increased further by better players. Certainly worth $2.875m.


No, he did NOT play with the likes of Draper and Maltby.

http://www.dobberhoc...nations&sent=go (I'd also like to say that that site is THE BEST site on the internet)

Hudler had a whopping 1 more point at ES than on the PP.

I'm not manipulating the stats, I'm just telling you them. That stats show nothing BUT Filppula being as good as Hudler offensively, and better at everything else.


And I'm not saying that Hudler isn't well worth his 2.85m deal, it'd be great to have him back (though I'd rather spend 4-5m on a bonafide 2nd line scorer). But I think he is overrated on this board and and FATALLY sick of the "produce so much given his ice time" argument, it simply isn't true. He produced as much at ES as Filppula given his ice time and got a ton of PP time.

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#82 king_malice

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 08:58 PM

57pts. Was he a minus? Nope.

How is that even a question for you? :lol:



:lol: Yeah, Hudler's 12 mins a night of ice time was totally enough to put up 65-80.

And "may be able to put up 40-50 points"? :lol: He hasn't dipped below 40pts since his rookie season. His NHL numbers were 25/42/57 in his three years of play. Your description is as fitting as saying a new corvette may have 200 horsepower. :rolleyes:





Oh really? Which forwards topped that on the Wings last season? How much are they making this season? Seriously-- look it up.




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#83 Icesurfer

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 10:39 PM

I just hope Hudler does not hold the Wings hostage AGAIN this year!!!! Last year was such a fiasco as Holland had to wait to see what Hudler was doing before going after free agents. By the time the decision was made by Hudler and the league Holland got useless players on the free agent market.

Out of shear respect, Hudler should be professional enough to let the Wings know what his plans are as soon as possible so Wings can sign the rest of the players they need for next year.

That was the reason why I was upset.... because between Hudler and his agent the lack of professionalism was very evident.
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#84 EZBAKETHAGANGSTA

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Posted 18 March 2010 - 09:11 AM

No, he did NOT play with the likes of Draper and Maltby.

http://www.dobberhoc...nations&sent=go (I'd also like to say that that site is THE BEST site on the internet)

Hudler had a whopping 1 more point at ES than on the PP.

I'm not manipulating the stats, I'm just telling you them. That stats show nothing BUT Filppula being as good as Hudler offensively, and better at everything else.


And I'm not saying that Hudler isn't well worth his 2.85m deal, it'd be great to have him back (though I'd rather spend 4-5m on a bonafide 2nd line scorer). But I think he is overrated on this board and and FATALLY sick of the "produce so much given his ice time" argument, it simply isn't true. He produced as much at ES as Filppula given his ice time and got a ton of PP time.


Every single one of Filppula's points (including goals) were secondary assists.

Edited by EZBAKETHAGANGSTA, 18 March 2010 - 09:12 AM.

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#85 Finnish Wing

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Posted 18 March 2010 - 09:23 AM

Every single one of Filppula's points (including goals) were secondary assists.

Are you really that stupid? Secondary assist can be much more important than the primary assist in many situations. If you have watched hockey you'd know that. Fore-checking the puck away for example and creating a 2on1 situation is much more important than eventually the pass that the other guy makes in that situation.
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#86 ManLuv4Clears

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Posted 18 March 2010 - 09:31 AM

Are you really that stupid? Secondary assist can be much more important than the primary assist in many situations. If you have watched hockey you'd know that. Fore-checking the puck away for example and creating a 2on1 situation is much more important than eventually the pass that the other guy makes in that situation.

:lol: I'm glad I wasn't the only one scratching my head after that post.

#87 Doc Holliday

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Posted 18 March 2010 - 09:42 AM

Am I the only one who took EZ's statement as a joke?

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#88 e_prime

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Posted 18 March 2010 - 09:46 AM

Am I the only one who took EZ's statement as a joke?



Every single one of Filppula's points (including goals) were secondary assists.


I think that would be the part that clued me in... :lol:
QUOTE
(AtomicPunk @ February 4, 2010 - 12:16AM)

Imma let you finish, and your cap numbers are all good and all that, but imma let Kenny figure it out. Kenny's cap numbers were the best cap numbers this year.

#89 Finnish Wing

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Posted 18 March 2010 - 09:56 AM

Jokish yeah.

Still, wouldn't wonder if some people really think that secondary assists are not important.
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#90 Z and D for the C

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Posted 18 March 2010 - 11:30 AM

EasyBakeOven is a closet Filppula slappy.

Just cause you look like the gimp don't mean you play like the gimp!


#91 EZBAKETHAGANGSTA

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Posted 18 March 2010 - 11:57 AM

EasyBakeOven is a closet Filppula slappy.


To be honest, I think if he didn't look like the lead singer of Abba I would like him a lot more.
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#92 EZBAKETHAGANGSTA

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Posted 18 March 2010 - 12:18 PM

Oh yeah btw, Manlove4clears and Finwing all you guys get is a :lol:

Are you really that stupid? Secondary assist can be much more important than the primary assist in many situations. If you have watched hockey you'd know that. Fore-checking the puck away for example and creating a 2on1 situation is much more important than eventually the pass that the other guy makes in that situation.


OMFG REALLY? I didn't know because obviously I am the stereotypical American Fan who has never played Hockey in my life and misses the FOX glow puck. It's not like I've followed the sport avidly since I was 5, played at a relatively high level to the point of being paid, or was routinely showed film to accelerate my game by one of the same youth coaches who coached Patrick Kane.
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#93 Original-Six

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Posted 18 March 2010 - 12:55 PM

People are way over analyzing the whole Hulder stats thing. Bottom line is he has already proven he is more than capable for producing at the NHL level.I hope to see him in a Wings jersey next year.

#94 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 18 March 2010 - 01:02 PM

No, he did NOT play with the likes of Draper and Maltby.

http://www.dobberhoc...nations&sent=go (I'd also like to say that that site is THE BEST site on the internet)

Hudler had a whopping 1 more point at ES than on the PP.

I'm not manipulating the stats, I'm just telling you them. That stats show nothing BUT Filppula being as good as Hudler offensively, and better at everything else.


And I'm not saying that Hudler isn't well worth his 2.85m deal, it'd be great to have him back (though I'd rather spend 4-5m on a bonafide 2nd line scorer). But I think he is overrated on this board and and FATALLY sick of the "produce so much given his ice time" argument, it simply isn't true. He produced as much at ES as Filppula given his ice time and got a ton of PP time.


:lol: Filppula is not now nor has he ever been Hudler's equal offensively. Hudler has superior hands and offensive talent. Hudler's PP proficiency was earned not given. You can't just assume Filppula will instantly get PP points when he's never been that good in that situation.

You can say they both have similar even strength scoring in a season, sure, but once you look at the relative difference between their ice time at even strength your argument falls apart.

I'll agree that Filppula is better than Hudler in every aspect other than offense but come on man-- you're nuts if you think Val's got Hudler's offensive talent.
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#95 mmamolo

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Posted 18 March 2010 - 01:09 PM

People are way over analyzing the whole Hulder stats thing. Bottom line is he has already proven he is more than capable for producing at the NHL level.I hope to see him in a Wings jersey next year.


I completely agree with this statement. Plus, a big thing is Hudler's finishing ability. Goal scoring has been an issue this season and Hudlers 23 goals (and ability to stay healthy for that matter) would have helped. Simple as that. In my opinion he should be welcomed back at that cap hit in a heart beat.
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#96 Z and D for the C

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Posted 18 March 2010 - 02:18 PM

You can say they both have similar even strength scoring in a season, sure, but once you look at the relative difference between their ice time at even strength your argument falls apart.


What do you mean by that?


And as for the PP thing, you have to obviously take the argument with a grain of salt, but Hudler's Points per Minute on the PP was .11 last year, this year Flip's is .08, but he's playing with vastly less skilled teammates on the PP. Last year Hudler was with Zetterberg/Hossa/Franzen, this year Flip is playing with Cleary/Bertuzzi on the PP.

Is this the end-all-be-all? No, but you can absolutely make the argument that Flip is just as good as Hudler is offensively. Now if Hudler had Flip's size and speed maybe it would be different, but Hudler doesn't have Flip's size or speed. I think that Hudler has a better shot than Filppula, but everything else is either even or +Flip.

Edited by Z and D for the C, 18 March 2010 - 02:19 PM.

Just cause you look like the gimp don't mean you play like the gimp!


#97 vOrophin

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Posted 18 March 2010 - 03:02 PM

I always looked at Fil as more of a passer/playmaker without a real scoring touch, it seemed that Hudler had him beat in that regard, which to me makes Hudler a bit better offensively.

#98 superstarsingh

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Posted 18 March 2010 - 03:06 PM

This whole Flip vs Huds debate makes me uneasy. Yes, bring Hudler back and put him to play on Flip's line that way we can have Flip's defense and Hudler's offense in one package. Also, Flip is not near Hudler's offensive level just like Huds is nowhere near Flip's defensive level. Huds can put points up regardless of what line he is on and that is something Flip cannot do. Hudler is a natural scorer and we need another one of those on this roster.

#99 DSM

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 06:18 PM

From what I understood, Huds knew he was going to win more in arbitration than the Wings could afford. He didn't want to play for another team in the NHL so he went to the KHL so that the Wings would still have his rights and he could return after this season when everyone knew we would have more cap room. So really, he wanted to play so badly for the Wings that he went to the KHL so that he wouldn't have to go to another NHL team. This could be wrong, but this is what I understood the situation to be. Also, he may decide now he wants to stay over there because the hookers, I mean money is so good.


Or he just went to KHL to make A LOT of money? I'm betting that his agent had the KHL in the back of his mind the whole season and advised little Jiri to file for arbitration so he could measure his options. When $5mil nearly tax free came calling, he couldn't resist. I would have done the same. Had the arbitration number not fit, I'm positive Holland would've made adjustments, and the poo from the bottom of the toilet (Williams and Bertuzzi) wouldn't be on the team. I think it's funny how everyones trying to make Hudler into some hero. He's just trying to get some $$$$.





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