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DirtyD

Let's Talk About the Refereeing

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You have to expect the Sharks trolls to come out of the woodwork. They actually won a playoff series for once. We'll see how they sound after getting bounced. They act like they won the cup, but have won nothing, and it will stay that way. To barely squeak by a Red Wings team with a rookie goalie that barely made the playoffs with help from the zebras is nothing to be proud of.

puckloo39 likes this

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Idk if this is in any other thread or anything, but my favorite call of the series is the penalty shot last night for pavelski, what a joke, just like the rest of the officiating in the series. But yes, the Wings lost it for themselves.

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You know what's awesome? That the Sharks have such a pathetic history that instead of spending this time celebrating their team's win or talking with Sharks fans about the next round, their fans have to find a Red Wings forum to hang out in.

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I think the NHL needs to look at its rulebook and consider some changes for the coming years.

1. Allow players to kick the puck in. i know this could start some controversy but I see nothing wrong with a player whose stick is tied up, kicking a puck in while being defended.

2. Stop protecting the goalies. Make some rule that a goalie is fair game outside his goal crease. Im not saying forwards should be allowed to drill the goalie. There are plenty of times where guys screening the goalie get called for interference because the goalie is so far out and actually into the play.

3. Call more diving penalties. I was watching Don Cherry the other night and he focused of Carcillo from Philly and how he was falling over at the slightest pushes and flung his head back like he'd been high sticked when the opponents stick was nowhere near him. It comprimises the integrety of the game.

....just my 2 cents.

1. Allow players to use a kicking motion so long as their skate is not separate from the ice. Rule would state: If a player lifts his skate to redirect a puck in, the goal is disallowed.

2. Open the crease a little more, keep the blue paint the same, but use the trapezoid as a "safe zone" for goalies and connect it to the crease. (Not sure if i'm describing this well enough) Where the angled lines of the trapezoid are, connect them to the top of the blue paint, and that becomes the new "crease". Might look ugly though... either way, if a goalie is outside that trapezoid/crease area then he is no longer susceptible to goalie interference.

3. I think Aaron Ward said it on TSN, but call the games tighter. None of the chincy stuff and actually slow down a player on a hook. If a guy falls down, there shouldn't be a penalty on the play unless he was torn down (like stuart did to one guy this year). if you keep calling these feather penalties the players will keep diving.

Just my opinion on those factors.

Barrie likes this

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They were talking on the radio all week on the FAN590 in Toronto about the officiating being horrible over all, not just in the Wings-Sharks series.

I don't like to blame the refs, but the Sharks were handed this series, Game 2 especially was a complete joke!

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The NHL is going to turn into the NBA in a few years. Like 2 or 3. The officiating is terrible. Like someone said earlier, when a beer league hockey team has better officiating then the NHL, you know there's a problem.

I don't think there's a grand conspiracy against the Wings, I think the refs are just god damn terrible. They miss blatant stuff, call stuff that isn't there, don't call penalties that are supposed to be automatic (knee to knee anyone?), and to top it all off, are protected like they are god's prophets to hockey. The problem will never be fixed until the league buckles down and calls out the bad refs and allows them to be called out by the players/organizations. I mean really, a 10k fine for saying the Ref's sucked? That's insane, and maybe unconstitutional.

The NHL is in a downward spiral into the joke of a league the NBA is, where you will not win unless you have a superstar, let alone get any fouls called for you. Besides the fact it's always the same 3 or 4 teams vying for the top, everyone else isn't competition at all. Maybe it's this way because the NHL thought picking up a former NBA commissioner (who resigned in point-fixing and reffing scandal) to be their commissioner?

I don't mean to rant, but the reffing this series really disgusted me. I came close to not even watching game 3 just because I was so upset. Why would I want to watch a game where my team doesn't have a fair chance to win? I'm definitely not watching any other games this year. The Refs aren't supposed to decide games ever. They are supposed to make sure one team doesn't cheat and that the game is fair.

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You have to expect the Sharks trolls to come out of the woodwork. They actually won a playoff series for once. We'll see how they sound after getting bounced. They act like they won the cup, but have won nothing, and it will stay that way. To barely squeak by a Red Wings team with a rookie goalie that barely made the playoffs with help from the zebras is nothing to be proud of.

For them getting to the 3rd round is like winning the Stanley Cup!

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First thing I am going to say is the reffing was atrocious (should be complained about). I'm sorry, but officiating did cost the Wings game 2. Anyway, I found this video on the net and it made me sick:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8pSFtHl7-M&feature=player_embedded

Wings might have had more confidence in the series had they won game 2. Calls were definitely in SJ favor all series. At times, I agree, SJ did outplay the Wings. This would've been a different series though if the zebras called it fair (more even).

Edited by bd2988

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First thing I am going to say is the reffing was atrocious (should be complained about). I'm sorry, but officiating did cost the Wings game 2. Anyway, I found this video on the net and it made me sick:

http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded

Wings might have had more confidence in the series had they won game 2. Calls were definitely in SJ favor all series. At times, I agree, SJ did outplay the Wings. This would've been a different series though if the zebras called it fair (more even).

Words cannot describe how angry it makes me to see that clip again. Despite - and likely because of - Bertuzzi's unfortunate tendency to take stupid, offensive-zone penalties, I'd say that he got boned more than anyone else in the series.

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After all the talk about hits to the head during the regular season and how they were going to crack down on them it just makes the missed call on Franzen that much worse and the fact that it led directly to the game winning and series clinching goal just leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

CrimsonFlame likes this

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Okay gang,

I've been reading a lot of comments about how the Wings truly lost this series through their inability to win faceoffs, their terrible defensive zone turnovers, and their inability to get to the dirty areas to score goals. I agree 100% with this assessment. The Wings were not even near their best for 4 of the 5 games in this series and, as such, their losses COULD simply be chalked up to that.

However, to nullify the refs of any responsibility in the outcome of this series because of the fact that the Wings were not playing as well as they should seems to me to be simply insufficient. In fact, I would say that such a claim does a disservice to the game of hockey in general. The fact of the matter is that the Wings lost all four of their games in this series by one goal, and in three of the four games the refereeing had a direct influence on the end results.

For me, tonight was the most painful example of this. A disgustingly obvious interference penalty on Murray was missed about 20 seconds prior to the eventual game winning goal. We can all argue that it was Rafalski's fault for coughing the puck up behind the net as he seemed to do far too often throughout the year; AND IT WAS. However, that does not excuse the FACT that the faceoff should have been at the other end of the rink and that the Wings should have had a man advantage.

Do I think that the Wings would have scored on that powerplay? Probably not. The powerplay was incredibly weak tonight and that was another reason that we lost. But this game, like the entire series, was decided by inches and, like every other close game in this series, the opportunities that the Sharks capitalized upon were provided to them by the referees. The Wings sloppy play was the killer, but I will am infuriated that the refs gave the Sharks far too much to run on.

Now, at this point I realize that I sound like a sore loser, and I'm sure that there are some on this board who will write me off as just that. By no means am I a conspiracy theorist; I am not deluded enough to think that the league was hellbent on keeping the Wings out of their fourth straight conference finals. I have watched enough hockey this season to realize that the refereeing in this entire league is pathetic. Standards change from game to game (or period to period) and calls are made and missed on the excuse that, "It's such a fast game". Refs are never held accountable for their terrible calls and no improvements are made for the betterment of the NHL experience. This phenomenon is not confined to a single team or conference, but rather serves to degrade the reputation of the league as a whole.

Unfortunately, in this series, the NHL's terrible refereeing was against the Wings far more than it was for them. While I realize that it is simply an unfortunate coincidence, I think that it is reasonable for us to be disappointed/mad. I have known a number of die-hard hockey fans to stop watching games because the refereeing simply reduced the sport to near-WWE levels, and I am now on the verge of doing so myself. I sincerely hope that this is a series that is watched over and over again as a tutorial of how NOT to ref in the playoffs so that a series like this is never duplicated in the future.

PS - I know that there have been a number of awesome, insightful Sharks fans posting on this board throughout the series, and I would really appreciate hearing your input. In the end, the Sharks certainly played well; as much as it pains me to say it, guys like Thornton and Marleau actually carried their weight. I try to be as unbiased as I can in looking at such issues, and I hope that was reflected in this post.

Great Post!!! this season was not amazing for us but the refereeing was terrible all the season long

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Dont get how we gety called for that crap and they get away with a late hit to the head

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After all the talk about hits to the head during the regular season and how they were going to crack down on them it just makes the missed call on Franzen that much worse and the fact that it led directly to the game winning and series clinching goal just leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

and they decide to crack down on too many men on the ice and goalie interference :blink: I guess hits to the head is a less serious issue

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Words cannot describe how angry it makes me to see that clip again. Despite - and likely because of - Bertuzzi's unfortunate tendency to take stupid, offensive-zone penalties, I'd say that he got boned more than anyone else in the series.

dude, he gets boned more than anyone else for phantom s*** than anyone else pretty much all season lol

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The bad calls and bad non-calls all seemed to go SJ's way. Sure they got some bad calls against them as well, but they did not set up 5 on 3's for detroit when it mattered. At worst, it canceled out their PP. The bad refing coupled with the Wings not winning the faceoffs in their zone killed them.

The chance of scoring on a 5 on 3 is 75%, which is almost like GIVING a team a goal. How can you do that in tied games or 1 goal games in the playoffs? Shy of a mugging, it should not happen. I'm sorry. At the same time, we did not win the key faceoffs and it killed us. Last night the first goal was right after a faceoff win for SJ in our zone. The second goal was the result of a non-call on Murray, which I don't haev a clue how that was missed. I wonder if the league will review that hit and suspend Murray for the first game of the 3rd round.

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Yeah, the reffing in the series sucked. That pretty much sums it up. The refs need to have some kind of discipline for bad officiating. Seriously, it was rediculous.

Whatever.

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I am a hockey fan first and a red wings fan second. and this league and the refs are ruining the game I love so much.

do the sharks deservde to move on sure, but do i think the red wings could have moved on without the bad calls sure.

another thing is the goals going in off feet. some thing needs to be done about this either make not goals be allowed to go in off the feet or all goals are allowed in regardless of a kicking motion.

As someone that cares for the game of hockey very much, the NHL has disappointed me as a HOCKEY fan very much since the lockout.

congrats to the sharks you deserved it!

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The refs should be paid on a performance basis. After the game, someone reviews the tape and if they miss something blatant, subtract some $$$. Or just fire em all and start fresh.

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I agree. I can't help but feel like this series should not be over yet and that we did not deserve such a quick fate.

s***, consider this stat:

San Jose: 4 wins, 15 goals

Detroit: 1 win, 17 goals

Entirely disregarding the poor refereeing, the fact that we outscored by 2 goals the team who beat us in 5 games is just a tough pill to swallow.

I was thinking the same thing. Also, sorry to bring up bad memories again, but last year's SCF:

Game 1: DET 3, Pit 1

Game 2: DET 3, Pit 1

Game 3: Det 2, PIT 4

Game 4: Det 2, PIT 4

Game 5: DET 5, Pit 0

Game 6: Det 1, PIT 2

Game 7: DET 1, Pit 2

TOTAL GOALS:

DETROIT - 17

PITTSBURGH - 14

and THIS was a SEVEN game series! This year's Sharks/Wings series was 2 less games, and each team scored the same amount of goals and and the Wings lost...

just a weird stat. O_O

EDIT: typo on Game 2's goals... I originally had DET 3, Pit 2 -- but it was DET 3, Pit 1. and the total I originally had was DETROIT 17, PITTSBURGH 15.

so the opposing team scored one LESS goal total last year (PIT - 14) compared to this year (SJ - 15)... still weird!

Edited by MannyK

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If it weren't for luck, Phil Hellmuth would win every Texas Hold'em tournament he ever entered (according to him). If it weren't for the Refs, the Wings would win the Stanley Cup every year with a 96-0 record.

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... yeah, cause the officiating wasn't bad at all

god I'm sick of people that counter legitimate complaints with smart ass remarks like yours. congratulations, you're retarded

Frozen-Man and PenaltyShot 96 like this

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For what it's worth, I don't feel that the problem lies in the refereeing, but more at the NHL level. I think the organization, for the past few years, has made a conscious effort to inform their refs that come playoff time, extra effort should be spent on 'getting it right'. I really think this has backfired and made refs hyper-critical over the past few playoffs. The microscopes come out, with good intentions, and everything gets magnified until it no longer makes sense. This year was no exception, and you can even add faceoffs to the debacle.

This is my take on it, from the persepective of a pre-lockout-purist-snob

Hockeymom1960 likes this

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I didn't even watch the last 2 games. I knew what the outcome would be.

Especially after we molested them in game 4, there was no way they were going to call a fair game. Heavens no, that might result in another game that would have Joe Casual changing the channel by the midway point.

This whole series was a f***in joke. I've watched hockey for over 20 years, hundreds of games a year, I've made a profession out of writing about the game and nitpicking officiating and play of the players. I know horrible when I see it.

I also know that most people will never admit something is crooked until it bites them, specifically, in the ass. It takes guts to admit something you love is tainted, either with bias or just poor reffing. That's why most people go into denial and just call people whiners, or conspiracy theorists or whatever else. They can't bring themselves to admit their favorite game isn't totally fair.

I'm sure some NBA fans felt the same way until they found out the league was fixed and had officials throwing games. I once read an article from a stat-keeper who exposed everyone he worked for, saying that he was once even threatened to make up better stats for home players or he'd be fired. Sports are not fair. Not anymore.

And this series was the worst I've ever seen. Worse than that 09 Finals screw-job. Worse than that Buffalo/Dallas series in 99, worse than the league doing everything they could to keep Pittsburgh in game 6 in 08. THE. WORST. EVER.

I get some people don't want to appear as a whiner or a "Mulder" in public, but personally, being honest is more important to me and I know what I saw. Detroit didn't play amazing, but neither did SJ. Clearly there were two different sets of rules for one team in blue and one in red.

These are my biggest gripes...

1) The Sharks were diving like it was the goddamn Olympics. And everytime a blue shirt fell over, and a red shirt was within 5 feet of it, regardless of whether or not we had anything to do with it....we were getting a penalty. Look how often a RW player felt he had to raise his arms in innocence. SJ players didn't do that-for a reason. They didn't feel subconsciously as if they had to. We all know Darren Helm has poor balance and is sometimes too fast for his own good. Yet of all the players in 12 games between Detroit, Phoenix and SJ....Helm was the only one called for diving? Are you ******* KIDDING?! Not one Shark was called for that? That was the biggest display of diving I've seen since the lockout, and I'm not kidding. Setoguchi should have his pansy ass sent away from hockey if he's going to keep disrespecting it. He's the worst of them all. My gripe, is for all the soft garbage calls against us, not one diving call was called on a team where they were clearly instructed to dive like ******* for 5 games.

2) The stuff they let go, and the stuff they don't, can help a team beyond just the 2 minute penalty. It tires some players out, puts a kink in all of the lines and makes changes tougher. It scrambles everything up and possibly the biggest thing of all-it can swing momentum on a dime. Poor officiating goes far beyond just sitting for 2 or less. Those 2 5-on-3's were total bulls***. Would we have won if they didn't get them? Who knows, but our chances would've been alot better. If we would've won, no one would've mentioned for a second that we were playing as poorly as some people claim we were. Winning does that. Their GWGs came directly from poor calls. If those calls don't happen, we're not in the scenario to make a mistake and our mistake doesn't exist.

3) This one is more with the fans. We can rag on a player to the point where we'll call a player a piece of human s***, literally. But we won't ever criticize the officials. Huh!? Sorry but I hold the officials to the same standards I hold the players to. Why not? It's their job, just like the players. They directly influence the outcome, just like the players and possibly more than them. To never blame the officials is to indicate you think they're perfect, or you're just not really open and honest. Think about that.

4) Franzen can get smoked, but the second Bertuzzi puts his hands anywhere near another player he's gone for 2 or less. Has anyone else noticed this? Bert gets the s*** end of the stick all the time. Ever since "the incident", he gets watched like a hawk, worse than Homer, and players can beat on him and get nothing called on them. It's embarrassing. I feel like my sport is becoming (*puke*) the NBA.

5) Please, refs, if you can't tell the difference between hooking, and holding the stick, ALLOW THE VIDEO REPLAY JUDGES TO HELP. We're not in 1990 anymore, so along with upgrading those laughably atrocious cameras, let's allow the new technology of our day and age to help improve the game. If you're unsure as to who took what penalty, don't confer and get into a pow-wow with 3 other zebras who also have no idea. USE REPLAYS. Why not? Do it on the fly. Have someone watching replays enough so that by the time you confirm you're unsure who took what penalty, you can call up to the war room and they'll know already. This wouldn't work? Well s***, what we're doing now isn't working either.

I don't have a problem admitting when our players screwed up. Against Edmonton, we were just lazy and didn't feel like breaking through the trap. Against Anaheim we were into a defensive system that forced us to take poor shots. Against Calgary we had too much dead weight and they played harder. But it's series like the ones agaisnt Anaheim, Pittsburgh and SJ where we were just bent over and given a dose of Gary's Own.

I don't really trust the NHL. I haven't for awhile. Sports are corrupt, right down to much simpler, smaller sports than the NHL. This usually leads to blind mockery by others, who assume I think the sport is fixed. It's not that black or white, but good luck explaining that to them. To me, it's a shade of grey. I'm well aware poor reffing occurs in alot of games, but in a league where it's clearly about profit and entertainment, do you really think they'll sit back and just let it decide itself? 100%? You don't think for a second that they, while not fixing the games, would prefer a certain team won and subtly swayed one way or another?

Edited by zackmorris

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...I also know that most people will never admit something is crooked until it bites them, specifically, in the ass. It takes guts to admit something you love is tainted, either with bias or just poor reffing. That's why most people go into denial and just call people whiners, or conspiracy theorists or whatever else. They can't bring themselves to admit their favorite game isn't totally fair.

I'm sure some NBA fans felt the same way until they found out the league was fixed and had officials throwing games. I once read an article from a stat-keeper who exposed everyone he worked for, saying that he was once even threatened to make up better stats for home players or he'd be fired. Sports are not fair. Not anymore.

...Sports are corrupt, right down to much simpler, smaller sports than the NHL. This usually leads to blind mockery by others, who assume I think the sport is fixed. It's not that black or white, but good luck explaining that to them. To me, it's a shade of grey. I'm well aware poor reffing occurs in alot of games, but in a league where it's clearly about profit and entertainment, do you really think they'll sit back and just let it decide itself? 100%? You don't think for a second that they, while not fixing the games, would prefer a certain team won and subtly swayed one way or another?

Amen. But get ready for ten responses calling you a tin foil hat wearer.

esteef

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