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SouthernWingsFan

Percentage of starts next year for Howard and Osgood

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Howard should start anywhere between 50 to 60 games and Osgood starts about 32-22 games. Of course injuries and performance will have a say on who plays at the end of the day but as Jimmy did a good job for us, (yeah I know he has his "moments") he's get's the nod as starter going into camp.

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I know im gonna get flamed for this but.. Come on people Howard needs a capable backup goalie! Osgood was HORRIBLE this past season so much so that Howard was starting every freaking game! We need a capable backup who can at least give Howie some rest! Now maybe I will be wrong next season and I think were stuck with Ozzie for 1 more year? Osgood might play descent or good next year to give our kid some rest but yeesh.. i know Ozzie probably deserves another year but please play descent to give Howie some rest or release him and pick up a capable backup!! :ranting:

I know some members here think Osgood has superhuman powers of verbal awesomeness and random veteran cup winning savvy of the greek gods that inspire and make Howard play insane but I just don't buy it.

You probably will get flamed, but your post is the most coherent one I've read. The others are in denial or fantasy land.

I'd be really surprised if Osgood got more than 10-15 starts. The central is so tough now. Unless we get off to a really great start, we're going to be scratching for every point again.

Edited by Pucks
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I know im gonna get flamed for this but..

Foretelling the future? Well, depending on your version on flaming, here goes:

Come on people Howard needs a capable backup goalie! Osgood was HORRIBLE this past season so much so that Howard was starting every freaking game!

Hmm. Interesting. Sounds like what a 4 year old says about why they don't eat their broccoli. "I hate it SOOO much, that's why I never eat it!!!"

You can't say "Osgood was HORRIBLE this past season so much so that Howard was starting every freaking game!" when Howard started more than 20 games in a row more than once, and Osgood LITERALLY was lucky to play one or two games a month. It's not that Osgood was putting up such a poor performance he didn't play for 20 games; it's that he hadn't played for 20 games so he put up a poor performance.

Logic. Look for it at your local grocery store.

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I think with a great offseason of training the two goalies will have a healthy rotation and having it stay that way without any stupid illnesses.

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I know im gonna get flamed for this but.. Come on people Howard needs a capable backup goalie! Osgood was HORRIBLE this past season so much so that Howard was starting every freaking game! We need a capable backup who can at least give Howie some rest! Now maybe I will be wrong next season and I think were stuck with Ozzie for 1 more year? Osgood might play descent or good next year to give our kid some rest but yeesh.. i know Ozzie probably deserves another year but please play descent to give Howie some rest or release him and pick up a capable backup!! :ranting:

I know some members here think Osgood has superhuman powers of verbal awesomeness and random veteran cup winning savvy of the greek gods that inspire and make Howard play insane but I just don't buy it.

I'd like these superhuman powers, I'd be able to beat the poop out of people a lot more if I had the power of a Greek god!

Osgood barely played. Primarily because Howard did very little to suggest getting taken out on a consistent basis, and a lot less with Osgood's play.

Osgood is fine as Howard's backup.

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I wanna see a real rotation - 55-27 for Howard. If we're in need of points, Babcock will play the hotter/sharper goalie, but I'm hoping he won't wear the goalie out. Regardless, I'm not expecting a division championship, just make the playoffs 4th or 5th again is probably where we deserve to be.

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I know im gonna get flamed for this but.. Come on people Howard needs a capable backup goalie! Osgood was HORRIBLE this past season so much so that Howard was starting every freaking game! We need a capable backup who can at least give Howie some rest! Now maybe I will be wrong next season and I think were stuck with Ozzie for 1 more year? Osgood might play descent or good next year to give our kid some rest but yeesh.. i know Ozzie probably deserves another year but please play descent to give Howie some rest or release him and pick up a capable backup!! :ranting:

I know some members here think Osgood has superhuman powers of verbal awesomeness and random veteran cup winning savvy of the greek gods that inspire and make Howard play insane but I just don't buy it.

Your argument against Ozzie basically proves the argument for most of us in favor of him: Babcock has to play him more. The injuries/tight points race forced Babcock's hand into starting Howard every game. I think there was more to it than that, but we'll go with Babcock's rationale for argument's sake.

How can you really even make a fair judgment on Chris Osgood? He started twice in 2010. I think he can without a doubt be a very capable backup provided he gets a start more than once every three months. Hopefully the situation next season will cater more to a favorable balance for both Jimmy and Ozzie to be successful in goal. I agree Jimmy needs rest, but Babcock has to be willing to give Ozzie a chance. This past season can't even be used as a fair barometer for people to say Ozzie can't get the job done anymore.

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Osgood didn't get more starts because he didn't earn them. It's the classic chicken or egg discussion. Mike Babcock didn't give him more starts because he didn't think he'd win the games. There were several times during the season that Howard could have used some rest, but at the same time the team needed a win. That's a tough position for the coach. I have no doubt another goalie would have gotten those games. Osgood wasn't up to the task, obviously. Nothing is going to change next year, certainly not the coaching staff's eyesight.

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Osgood didn't get more starts because he didn't earn them. It's the classic chicken or egg discussion. Mike Babcock didn't give him more starts because he didn't think he'd win the games. There were several times during the season that Howard could have used some rest, but at the same time the team needed a win. That's a tough position for the coach. I have no doubt another goalie would have gotten those games. Osgood wasn't up to the task, obviously. Nothing is going to change next year, certainly not the coaching staff's eyesight.

And I think many of us who still feel Ozzie's got it (a little left, honestly) think the paradox you described was started by Ozzie going down with the flu, and Jimmy playing lights-out during that time. And the fact that Ozzie played poorly for the most part when given the opportunity to play was very predictable- the odds, imo, were against Ozzie playing well at that point.

The situation you describe at the end, if it is to be the truth, is the one situation where I wish that Ozzie was gone- but then again how many remember some of the UFA's who have came to Detroit at the tail end and basicly folded. It's happened, Federko comes to mind allthough that was just before my time.

Either way that it goes with Ozzie, assuming he's still around, it's just a one-year deal. And then we'll have a new set of goalies to beat up/stick up for.

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SOOOO tough to figure this out in May...but

65 - Howie

17 - Ozzie

And Osgood slappies...give me legit arguments please not that Jimmy choked and "wellll Ozzie was just great in 08 and 09 playoffs." Things that hold water because as far as I am concerned this kid has plenty of great years ahead of him. And Osgood just looks like he couldn't stop a dang beach ball anymore.

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SOOOO tough to figure this out in May...but

65 - Howie

17 - Ozzie

And Osgood slappies...give me legit arguments please not that Jimmy choked and "wellll Ozzie was just great in 08 and 09 playoffs." Things that hold water because as far as I am concerned this kid has plenty of great years ahead of him. And Osgood just looks like he couldn't stop a dang beach ball anymore.

Ok, here's a legit argument:

Howard was playing like s*** on most games. He allowed bad goals at bad times, and was playing worse than Osgood did in the regular season. The argument against playing Osgood in the playoffs was that he was so horrible in the regular season, even though his regular season performance would have been an upgrade on Howard's playoffs. Best case and Osgood turns in a third straight super-goalie performance.

However, the likely reason for Howard's considerable inconsistency and obviously slower mental and physical reaction speed in the playoffs was fatigue. So arguing that he should play more than 60 games is ridiculous if you want to win the Cup. That's basically saying you want your goalie to play 90+ games on the season after the playoffs. 80 is a more realistic number for a goalie to play (rookie Howard started 72 this year, btw) because fatigue really affects a goaltenders performance at that level.

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Ok, here's a legit argument:

Howard was playing like s*** on most games. He allowed bad goals at bad times, and was playing worse than Osgood did in the regular season. The argument against playing Osgood in the playoffs was that he was so horrible in the regular season, even though his regular season performance would have been an upgrade on Howard's playoffs. Best case and Osgood turns in a third straight super-goalie performance.

However, the likely reason for Howard's considerable inconsistency and obviously slower mental and physical reaction speed in the playoffs was fatigue. So arguing that he should play more than 60 games is ridiculous if you want to win the Cup. That's basically saying you want your goalie to play 90+ games on the season after the playoffs. 80 is a more realistic number for a goalie to play (rookie Howard started 72 this year, btw) because fatigue really affects a goaltenders performance at that level.

And it continues to go right back to what everyone else has said and its the most rational of all....

Osgood simply didn't play good enough to warrant any time especially amidst the run to make it into the playoffs so that played into the fatigue portion. Ozzie puts up a good backup campaign next year to make sense and put in for 20+ games and give Howie that needed rest, I am all in for it. Just can't see it. The obvious idea is to find a different backup, which most likely won't happen.

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And it continues to go right back to what everyone else has said and its the most rational of all....

Osgood simply didn't play good enough to warrant any time especially amidst the run to make it into the playoffs so that played into the fatigue portion. Ozzie puts up a good backup campaign next year to make sense and put in for 20+ games and give Howie that needed rest, I am all in for it. Just can't see it. The obvious idea is to find a different backup, which most likely won't happen.

Name a better goaltender than Osgood who is either a UFA willing to sign for less than $2m, or a currently signed goalie who makes less than $2m and is available for less than a minimum of one of Filppula, Franzen, or Kronwall. Not there.

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Name a better goaltender than Osgood who is either a UFA willing to sign for less than $2m, or a currently signed goalie who makes less than $2m and is available for less than a minimum of one of Filppula, Franzen, or Kronwall. Not there.

WHICH MOST LIKELY WON'T HAPPEN.....

Those were probably the key words in regards to finding a better backup.

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WHICH MOST LIKELY WON'T HAPPEN.....

Those were probably the key words in regards to finding a better backup.

The way you said it implied it could be done. There are no goaltenders who make anywhere near Osgood's salary or less who can match his playing ability who wouldn't cost the Wings significant assets. Very few goalies, such as Rask, even can match the salary and match or beat the playing level, without considering the assets to actually acquire the goaltender.

This is why I basically posed the question to you of who you seriously thought would make a better backup for Howard than Osgood. Remember also that the Wings are on the hook anyway for Osgood's salary cap hit if he is forced into retirement.

The obvious idea isn't to find a different backup, it's to go with the guy they have and hope he can regain his form. Unless of course you're an Ozzie hater, and think he should be drawn and quartered for only winning the Wings TWO Cups instead of five or six like Hasek would have.

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Howard 50, Osgood zero.

Unless I'm wrong about Osgood. I suspect that Chris is more than a littel miffed about the way this year went and is not all that happy to be playing for Babs. If that's the case, I want him gone. Not because I don't like him or don't think he's still got it - I do like him and I do think he still has the tools to be a great NHL Goalie - but I don't think he'll return to form here and I don't think any ammount of "sorry for the way last year went, we'lltry to work you in more next year, I promise's" from Holland and Babcock will make the stewing that he's likely doing go away. Unless Babs says some very public things commiting to Osgood getting a real shot at being the man next year, I don't expect Osgood to be happy here. If he isn't happy hear, I don't expect him to play to his potential. If he can't play to his potential here, I hope he can go somewhere where he'll get a chance to show the world what he's got left, good or bad.

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Name a better goaltender than Osgood who is either a UFA willing to sign for less than $2m, or a currently signed goalie who makes less than $2m and is available for less than a minimum of one of Filppula, Franzen, or Kronwall. Not there.

What's the point of having a cheap salary if you suck so bad the coach won't put you in. Hell I'd take any warm body at his position right now if they could come in play 25 games and not suck. I could post a large list of players that meet your requirements, but it would be pointless. All Osgood slappy's see is what's behind them. Thankfully this is the last season we have to have this discussion.

Edited by Pucks
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What's the point of having a cheap salary if you suck so bad the coach won't put you in. Hell I'd take any warm body at his position right now if they could come in play 25 games and not suck. I could post a large list of players that meet your requirements, but it would be pointless. All Osgood slappy's see is what's behind them. Thankfully this is the last season we have to have this discussion.

So your opinion is one of:

1) Howard starts all 82 games.

2) The Wings trade valuable assets for a goaltender who is better than Osgood, possibly including Ozzie in the deal or possibly still paying Ozzie's salary. Likely you'll be looking at a loss of a solid young forward and/or defenseman such as Filppula or Kronwall to acquire the new goalie. Really want to make that deal?

3) The Wings use any of the other goalies they have signed instead of Osgood.

Unless, of course, you think Osgood could play 25 games and the overall outcome of those games would be better than the results of any of the three scenarios you implied that I listed, those being scenario 1) Howard's fatigue, scenario2) reduced team capability, or scenario 3) untested young goaltender.

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So your opinion is one of:

1) Howard starts all 82 games.

2) The Wings trade valuable assets for a goaltender who is better than Osgood, possibly including Ozzie in the deal or possibly still paying Ozzie's salary. Likely you'll be looking at a loss of a solid young forward and/or defenseman such as Filppula or Kronwall to acquire the new goalie. Really want to make that deal?

3) The Wings use any of the other goalies they have signed instead of Osgood.

Unless, of course, you think Osgood could play 25 games and the overall outcome of those games would be better than the results of any of the three scenarios you implied that I listed, those being scenario 1) Howard's fatigue, scenario2) reduced team capability, or scenario 3) untested young goaltender.

1. I already gave my opinion in the thread I said 10-15 games for Osgood. Unless we have a time machine.

2. Why the hell would we trade for goaltender? We only need a backup that can keep Jimmy fresh. Pick a UFA and be done. Obviously they'd have to trade, waive Osgood.

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1. I already gave my opinion in the thread I said 10-15 games for Osgood. Unless we have a time machine.

2. Why the hell would we trade for goaltender? We only need a backup that can keep Jimmy fresh. Pick a UFA and be done. Obviously they'd have to trade, waive Osgood.

Ok, let's look at this then, going from two different directions.

1) Sign a UFA goaltender who would sign for $1.5m or less. You've now almost certainly signed a goalie worse than Chris Osgood.

2) Sign the best goalie you can who is willing to backup Howard, regardless of price. You're probably spending around $3m.

3) Sign the best goalie on the market, and make Howard backup if necessary. Now you're putting out something like $6-7m.

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Ok, let's look at this then, going from two different directions.

1) Sign a UFA goaltender who would sign for $1.5m or less. You've now almost certainly signed a goalie worse than Chris Osgood.

I don't believe that would be possible

No point in discussion it further as you believe Osgood is a good goaltender right now and I DO NOT. A sub .900% goalie is not a good value at 1.5 sorry. From my point of view he could be easily replaced for 1.5 and you'd even get a much better performance for the money.

Agree to disagree I suppose. No more of this nonsense after next season thankfully.

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