Trade Cleary?

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Here's the problem-- if you want to trade Cleary he's at a low value right now. He had a rough season last year and struggled with groin problems all year. I really believe Cleary can be a 20+20 guy again. He just needs to come to camp healthy. Last year he never managed to shake off the groin issues then the shoulder injury made it worse for him.

If our bottom 6 could've played well in the playoffs the Wings definitely could have gone farther.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

He's the model of a consistent regular season player, but he is sooo inconsistent in the playoffs it hurts. He does good, he does bad, he does good, and then he does bad.

You know exactly what you're going to get from him: injury prone, ~15 goals, ~40 points, 60-75 games, solid defense, and finish somewhere around even +/-.

I said trade him and I don't feel bad about it. I was decently happy with the dollare amount he was given, but the NTC killed me. I'm in the same boat with Stuart as well. If he stays a Wing I'll be happy but not thrilled, if they get traded somehow I won't be too disappointed.

Cleary wasn't very inconsistent in the playoffs in 2009. I think the injuries were a huge factor in Cleary's production this past season. I would say Cleary goes through far more dry stretches in the regular season and then ramps it up for the playoffs with his energy and goal scoring.

As far as Stuart, he's even more of a bargain than Cleary. Stuart has been an absolute beast three straight years in Detroit during the playoffs - what more does he have to do to prove his value around here? Not to mention, Stuart was easily the Red Wings best defenseman before the Olympics and during all of the injuries. I'm thrilled Stuart decided to stay with the Red Wings - he's our most reliable player on the back end after Nick.

[Jesusberg 1,256]

I wonder if a line of Bertuzzi-Abdelkader-Cleary would work... I think Abs would be better suited to play with them than Helm, and the other option would be if Ritola surprised the team and worked himself into the 3rd line center position.

I don't know who out of Dats, Z, Mule, Homer, Hudler or Flip would be taken out of the Top 6. I would say Hudler, but Babcock's already stated that he's high on him. Maybe Flip if he doesn't produce?

We have some solid depth, just not too sure of how some of it will mesh.

[Casey 145]

Read my sigline, people.

[Broken 16 381]

Read my sigline, people.

So whats wrong with discussing hypotheticals?

This season is a make or break season for Cleary. And he knows it. And that's good.

[Zetts 236]

This season is a make or break season for Cleary. And he knows it. And that's good.

I definitely disagree. He has a NTC and 3 years left on his contract. How often do teams ask players to waive those? More to the point, how often do the Detroit Red Wings ask players to waive those?

[13dangledangle 968]

Through his career in Detroit Cleary has averaged 14 goals and 20 assits a season. Considering where he came from thats great, considering his age and price now? His money could be used elsewhere but I say keep him, he should have a lot better season, all of them should.

[stevkrause 1,247]

I definitely disagree. He has a NTC and 3 years left on his contract. How often do teams ask players to waive those? More to the point, how often do the Detroit Red Wings ask players to waive those?

ding. ding. ding.

we have a winner

[Guest mindfly]

Here's the problem-- if you want to trade Cleary he's at a low value right now. He had a rough season last year and struggled with groin problems all year. I really believe Cleary can be a 20+20 guy again. He just needs to come to camp healthy. Last year he never managed to shake off the groin issues then the shoulder injury made it worse for him.

If our bottom 6 could've played well in the playoffs the Wings definitely could have gone farther.

Easier said than done with some players.. some players just can´t stand healthy, fact.

[Hockey13Playa 240]

I definitely disagree. He has a NTC and 3 years left on his contract. How often do teams ask players to waive those? More to the point, how often do the Detroit Red Wings ask players to waive those?

This.

[HankthaTank 1,100]

I agree with all of the above about the waiving of the NTC and all of that. We should never do so. Yet, I have seen plenty of threads with trade Cleary in it. So there we go to those people. Let it go.

[jollymania 162]

Wasn't it Cheli who was responsible for that? From what I recall, Dan reached out to him about the trainer he used & getting more committed to working on his fitness level to prove to teams he could stick in the NHL or something to that effect.

I was thinking that too, I think he met him down in LA

[Guest CaliWingsNut]

I definitely disagree. He has a NTC and 3 years left on his contract. How often do teams ask players to waive those? More to the point, how often do the Detroit Red Wings ask players to waive those?

Edit: reconsidered my post.

Edited June 9, 2010 by CaliWingsNut

[kylee 727]

so you're saying this poll won't have any effect whatsoever on the Wings actual decisions?

just when i thought ken holland followed all of my posts about how awesome garnet exelby would be for our team :/

[NBCnothingbutcrosby 159]

Eric Lindros was amazing too, until Stevens gave him 12 concussions... jus sayin.

Cleary is Damaged goods. I'd trade him for a water cooler just to clear his salary off the books and get someone who doesnt break every bone in their body every season.

Anyone in the NHL making 2.5mill is usually good... wish we had a young gritty N.American forward with his best years ahead of him instead of Cleary.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is just biased

[NBCnothingbutcrosby 159]

Holy hell people he was injured all season... He is a beast when he is healthy and next season he will prove it to you, because he is LOYAL and he works his ass off. All I ever hear on this board is how we need more grit, and we need scorers who can fight, and Dan Cleary is one of those guys. He is the best fighter on our team, no contest, and he can hit like a locomotive when he wants to. Potential to score 20-30 goals per year, the skills to play on ANY line in ANY situation, and the ability to whoop the f*** out of BRAD MAY - the worthless turd who we brought in to start a bunch of boring staged fights which he mostly LOST. So many people want Carcillo, yet Cleary could manhandle him, is a better scorer, great on the PK, and won't take nearly as many stupid penalties. Oh and he also grows a mean beard while Carcillo can't even grow Crosby fuzz... Cleary is the man and I can't believe the Bertuzzi thread was derailed by this nonsense only to see another thread about it today.

1. Key word is 'when' which is never as of late, hence why he hasn't earned his contract.

2. Watch clips a few years back since the groin injury he is painfully slow.

3. ?? Sure he has heart, like when he stopped Prongers fists with his face. But... No I'd say Lilja is even a better fighter; never seen Cleary win a fight.

4. So can alot of other players for 2.5 mill. And guess what!! they don't leave their feet cough cough Dion Phaenuf.

5. Who said Carcillo... Carcillo makes $937,000 a year.. Uhh, yeah I'd take that over Cleary in a heartbeat.

6. Fanboy.

[Guest Crymson]

Eric Lindros was amazing too, until Stevens gave him 12 concussions... jus sayin.

Cleary is Damaged goods. I'd trade him for a water cooler just to clear his salary off the books and get someone who doesnt break every bone in their body every season.

Anyone in the NHL making 2.5mill is usually good... wish we had a young gritty N.American forward with his best years ahead of him instead of Cleary.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is just biased

I see you completely ignored my post, a post which raised the fact that many of your ramblings on this matter are purely inane. Kudos! Also, excellent work immediately declaring invalid the opinion of anyone who disagrees with you. Finally, great job introducing the concept of bias into this discussion, given the fact that it's a thread in which people are stating their opinions on a player; in other words, bias really doesn't apply here.

Oh, and please open your dictionary and locate 'sarcasm'. It will be vital in helping you understand the meaning of what I've just written.

1. Key word is 'when' which is never as of late, hence why he hasn't earned his contract.

Oh, right. He has one season in which he's injured---something which happens to most players at some point in their career---following a year in which he had a good regular season and an absolutely brilliant performance in the playoffs, and you say he is 'never' earning his contract money?

2. Watch clips a few years back since the groin injury he is painfully slow.

He had a torn meniscus all year. Good luck skating on that. And no, groin tears will not slow one down permanently. They rarely leave permanent damage.

3. ?? Sure he has heart, like when he stopped Prongers fists with his face. But... No I'd say Lilja is even a better fighter; never seen Cleary win a fight.

He'll fight when he needs to, though I agree he isn't a first-billing fighter.

4. So can alot of other players for 2.5 mill. And guess what!! they don't leave their feet cough cough Dion Phaenuf.

Dion Phaneuf himself called that hit legal. To reporters, he said after that game that "it was a good hit." This is probably the reason why there was no controversy on the matter. You're reaching. Badly.

5. Who said Carcillo... Carcillo makes $937,000 a year.. Uhh, yeah I'd take that over Cleary in a heartbeat.

...

6. Fanboy.

Rich. You're calling others fanboys when you're the one making nonsensical, absolutely reaching claims and they're speaking to refuting those claims. What does that make you?

I really don't understand why you have a vendetta against Cleary of such magnitude that it will drive you to repeatedly make such irrational comments about him. Whatever the case, I advise getting it checked out.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Crymson

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

We get it you hate Cleary. He's a Red Wing and hard working popular player, spread your crap somewhere else

[magicaldatsyuk 6]

i wanna see some more of that from cleary next year haha. he has said hes coming back stronger and more determined then ever next year, now he just needs to back that up by proving that on the ice.

[bdavis 28]

Cleary will have something to prove next season. Hopefully by time the season rolls around, his injuries will be all healed up. I have a feeling we will see a different Cleary in 10-11. So no, I don't think he should be traded.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

He had a torn meniscus all year. Good luck skating on that. And no, groin tears will not slow one down permanently. They rarely leave permanent damage.

This. With an injured meniscus the knee has reduced mobility, is painful to use (under load, if you're not putting weight on it it shouldn't hurt to hold still), is inherently less stable given the functional purpose of the meniscus and is generally s***canned.

Having a torn meniscus would make skating painful and difficult to put it mildly. Having your top speed, acceleration and stability affected makes playing hockey at an elite level pretty damn tough.

Edit: affected, effected, whatever.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Drake_Marcus

[AtomicPunk 296]

I agree he had an off year, injuries and all, but I also think we could do better for the money. If he were gone we could use that money to sign someone younger, faster, more productive.

I know he is a fan favorite but I think this is a place for an upgrade.

[HankthaTank 1,100]

See posts blueadams... Keep Clears.

[Krayzie_Bone 58]

I dont think they will get anything decent for him so its better to just keep him. He is pretty good just not great.

Edited June 18, 2010 by Krayzie_Bone

[achildr1 255]

I've been thinking this for a couple years. I didn't like the price tag on Cleary from day 1.

When this guy absolutely maxs his potential he could be a 55 point guy. That 55 points comes by playing a full season (which he has never done with the Wings). Say what you want about all that he can do but i'm not even slightly convinced that Helm, Miller, or Eaves couldn't fulfill his duties now or shortly in the future.

Dan Cleary - Gm 272 pts 156 pts/gm .56

Gm G A Pt

2009-10 Detroit 64 15 19 34 17:13

2008-09 Detroit 74 14 26 40

2007-08 Detroit 63 20 22 42

2006-07 Detroit 71 20 20 40

The Alternative

Patrick Eaves 65 12 10 22 13:26 ATOI .33/with Cleary's ATOI(about .44)

Darren Helm 75 11 13 24 14:29 ATOI .32/with Cleary's ATOI(about .41)

Drew Miller 80 10 9 19 12:37 ATOI .23/with Cleary's ATOI(about .32)

All the "with Cleary's ATOI's" are not taking into account that if they were to get his ice time they would be playing on the power play and with much more skilled players leaving much more opportunity to ramp up production. On top of that all of the above players are much younger than Cleary and will likely get higher point totals if they kept the same ice time, let alone had more. Miller and Helm played more games this season than Cleary ever has with the Wings in a single season.

Helm would move up. I know I can't be the only one who strongly believes that Darren could flurish with more ice time. If Kenny feels a little nervous depth wise, he's got 2.5 more million to ease his hankering. If a top 2 line guy is hurt move one of the afformentioned kids up. Eaves probably has the most offensive upside (see draft position/rookie year)

The Bottom Line

A point that gets lost in this argument is that we only have, what, 2 million left under the cap? Meaning we will probably lose one the the three RFA's above. My guess is either Miller or Eaves will be sent packing unless we clear space. So here's what I see.

The Wings with Cleary:

2.5 extra towards the cap (maybe the most important stat). 55 points in fantasy land, 40-45 in the real world. We keep a player who has almost certainly reached his potential as a hockey player, is injury prone, and could quite easily be replaced from within and at about half of the salary. One of the kids above is gone. Posives: (see below, marketed as...).

The Wings without Cleary:

An extra second/third round pick in this or next years draft and/or mid-level prospect, with Cleary being market as a Wings system product, hard worker, maybe 50 points with full year 2nd line duty, and a Cup ring. I could see it happening. (obviously he'd have to agree to it, but i don't see him throwing a huge fit if management clearly wants to move on and he goes somewhere to play more)

Helm, Eaves, and Miller all get to stay if Kenny wants them. All get a chance to produce more at ages where that is the chance they need. At very least, between the three of them, I expect them to make up Cleary's points. More cap space in the next couple years. We keep players who earn salaries based on full seasons, not 68 avg games (get our money's worth!).

Note: Don't get me wrong here, I like Dan Cleary. I'll never forget his goal in game 7, 2nd round, against Anaheim with three minutes left. Hard worker, tough, had to change his life to regain his career. But the numbers make sense and the cap makes things rough some times. Wings should of went a little lower with his salary to begin with.