Osgood

[Dynheart 42]

Not your typical "Osbad" topic. I was just sitting here thinking all the flak this poor guy gets because he's not on the same level as Broduer, Roy, Lundqvist etc etc...

Seeing as how the other teams are starting to catch on to Hollands mind set with goalies (Stacked defense and goalie to get the job done) without success, it makes you wonder. Is Osgood as bad as most people say he is? Think about it. Not many, if at all, teams make it far, let alone the play-offs, with a "cheap" goalie. They just cannot get it done. Ozzie being one of those "cheap" goalies just to get the job done, and looking at his success', even in the regular season (past couple years been hard on him...can't beat the clock) he seems better than just a cheap option.

Is he elite? Nope. But He's a damn good goaltender in my book, especially looking back the last 4-5 years with how other teams adapting to the stacked D and servicable goalie. He probably wont get it now, but I sure how the man gets his due respect after he retires. The guy has been hazed hardcore.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Nope. He's pretty much like you stated.

Probably won't ever be recognized as elite. Sure, he had offensive-minded Wings help him out to a degree to get his wins. But he didn't make saves and get wins by accident anywhere he played, and he's done something right to get to 400 wins which he should finally crack this upcoming season.

He's not as bad as some people portray because of a combination I think of Red Wings fans (generally speaking) being idiotic and beyond stupidly anal when it comes to goaltendeners, partially because he let in soft/long goals from the year 1203 (late 90s), and that as he went back to the Wings for his second go-round, he was never really the clear-cut number one starter those years and was probably considered the back up goalie when Hasek came back and definitely last year as time went on.

More often than not, he's gotten the job done, and when it has counted most in the postseason when the Wings or other teams got eliminated earlier than usual, I can't really pin any playoff year elimination solely on him.

Again, not elite and maybe not always consistent, but it's no accident that he's won a lot more than he's lost. Despite last year being bad, I'm glad he's still around.

EDIT: On the big-money goaltenders, you really I think can only do so and get away with it for the best of the best (i.e. Roy, Hasek, Brodeur, etc.). Luongo is probably portrayed as the biggest salary goaltender of the present NHL but he hasn't gotten the job done the past few postseasons. Hell, Vancouver hasn't even been to the conference finals yet when he's been their goalie. He's definitely a solid goalie, but is he that worth the hype (yet?) to justify that salary? I think managers and fans alike are learning that goalies can only take you so far sometimes by themselves (fair/not, bad defense or lack of offense or whatever), and that bigger salaries need to be doled out firstly to defenders or offensive stars.

Edited August 25, 2010 by SouthernWingsFan

[Shady Ultima 40]

Cujo took his worse team farther than Luongo has.

[blgillett 48]

Couldn't agree with you any more. He has been good, and if it wasn't for Dom coming here he would have been a wing his whole career.

[Echolalia 2,961]

Osgood is probably the best value goaltender of the past 20 years. He's a solid goalie, either best of the average of worst of the elite (however you want to look at it), but because he wont be taking 5+M from a team, he gets surrounded by elite talent. The consequence is success.

[thedisappearer 291]

Osgood is probably the best value goaltender of the past 20 years. He's a solid goalie, either best of the average of worst of the elite (however you want to look at it), but because he wont be taking 5+M from a team, he gets surrounded by elite talent. The consequence is success.

I didn't read the word 'value' in your first sentence and thought you were on drugs. Then I reread it and realized you were 100% correct.

[greenrebellion 415]

Osgood is probably the best value goaltender of the past 20 years. He's a solid goalie, either best of the average of worst of the elite (however you want to look at it), but because he wont be taking 5+M from a team, he gets surrounded by elite talent. The consequence is success.

Excellent post and dead on imo.

[softshoes 83]

Excellent post and dead on imo.

I'm of the opinion that if we had pulled out that second Cup against Pitt he would have been a lock for the Hall.

[eva unit zero 271]

I'm of the opinion that if we had pulled out that second Cup against Pitt he would have been a lock for the Hall.

He's a 400 game winner with 50 shutouts and 2 Cups as a starter, and some of the best playoff numbers ever. If you can SERIOUSLY tell me that he's not going into the Hall, then you are on drugs.

[thedisappearer 291]

He's a 400 game winner with 50 shutouts and 2 Cups as a starter, and some of the best playoff numbers ever. If you can SERIOUSLY tell me that he's not going into the Hall, then you are on drugs.

He's not making the Hall this generation. Right or wrong, that's the fact. Get over it.

[mackel 763]

Posted this in the last Osgood topic:

why does this always happen when Osgood's name comes up??? lots of people blowing gaskets about how good/not good he is... I thought we all agreed last year he was a mediocre goalie who played for great teams and consequently has better numbers than other goalies of his ilk... such as Arthus Irbe, Dan Cloutier, Damian Rhodes, Ron Tugnutt, Steve Sheilds, Manny Fernendez, etc

[eva unit zero 271]

He's not making the Hall this generation. Right or wrong, that's the fact. Get over it.

Of goaltenders who played the prime of their career in the late 90s and early 00s, he probably ranks third behind Brodeur and Hasek. Two goaltenders who are in the argument for "best ever" so I would say Osgood probably gets his spot if you are cutting it up by generation.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

Posted this in the last Osgood topic:

why does this always happen when Osgood's name comes up??? lots of people blowing gaskets about how good/not good he is... I thought we all agreed last year he was a mediocre goalie who played for great teams and consequently has better numbers than other goalies of his ilk... such as Arthus Irbe, Dan Cloutier, Damian Rhodes, Ron Tugnutt, Steve Sheilds, Manny Fernendez, etc

You don't get 400 wins by being mediocre.

Tim Cheveldae was mediocre.

Manny Legace was mediocre.

Chris Osgood was NOT mediocre in his career. Not elite, but not mediocre.

Also I LOL at your list of goaltenders in "his ilk". At some point his accomplishments have to give him some sort of credit.

[Nev 1,085]

Which Chris Osgood are we talking about in this thread? The one from the 2008 regular season + playoffs + 2009 playoffs who was like a stone wall, started the ASG and was our 2nd best player in the cup run, and our best player full stop in the 2009 run?

Or the Chris Osgood from the 2009 + 2010 regular seasons? The one who couldn't stop a beachball. The one who was sent on gardening leave by the GM. The one who was left to rot by the coach who had more faith in an untested rookie than a multiple cup-winning veteran?

Because there's your problem right there - too many people only remember the 2nd Chris Osgood. He's recently talked about playing till he's 40 - not if he keeps playing like the last 2 regular seasons he won't.

[Guest mindfly]

And this year they will decrease the size of goalie equipment again, just a little, but it can't help being 5'10....

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Posted this in the last Osgood topic:

why does this always happen when Osgood's name comes up??? lots of people blowing gaskets about how good/not good he is... I thought we all agreed last year he was a mediocre goalie who played for great teams and consequently has better numbers than other goalies of his ilk... such as Arthus Irbe, Dan Cloutier, Damian Rhodes, Ron Tugnutt, Steve Sheilds, Manny Fernendez, etc

You've got to be kidding me with those names.

How many of those goalies have won a Stanley Cup? None. Only Irbe has come somewhat close.

And Osgood has won two - one as a starter and one coming on in relief, when you come on in relief of somebody in the playoffs unexpectedly you're usually going golfing soon.

Edited August 26, 2010 by SouthernWingsFan

[egroen 384]

Of goaltenders who played the prime of their career in the late 90s and early 00s, he probably ranks third behind Brodeur and Hasek. Two goaltenders who are in the argument for "best ever" so I would say Osgood probably gets his spot if you are cutting it up by generation.

Obviously Belfour is ahead of him and Roy was still very good.

Four from that time period just might be it. There are still a handful of better to just-as-good goalies still not in the HHoF. The committee has a much higher bar for goalies than it does for skaters.

Edited August 26, 2010 by egroen

[h2obury 6]

I have always been a big fan of Ozzie and I have a feeling that we wont know what we had until he retires. Sure he has had his ups and downs and obviously last year was a down year but nothing is better in the NHL then being able to have a steady goaltender that a team can depend on Ozzie has been that more years than not.

[Lord Stanely 39]

I just have to say that I love me some Osgood!

I remember watching the fresh baby faced goalie in the early 90's and being really excited to have a good goalie instead of Chevilde, etc. (as teens we used to say the biggest oxymoron after government intelligence was - Save Chevildea). So for some of us to see what this "kid" did for the wings over the years makes him a GREAT goalie in our eyes. He has been one of my favorite wings behind probably only Yzerman for since the 2nd cup win- his first.

I think history for him might have been kinder if he woud have stayed with the Wings and of course the pittsburgh cup loss and last season would have both turned out differently.

But man, I love me some Osgood!

Plus I have a 10 year old boy that plays Goalie and looks like a young Osgood.

[mackel 763]

The goalies I mentioned in my post are/were every bit as good as Osgood... unfortunately for them they weren't playing on the Wings...

Osgood is the Bic lighter of goaltenders... useful, but easily replaced.

You've got to be kidding me with those names.

How many of those goalies have won a Stanley Cup? None. Only Irbe has come somewhat close.

And Osgood has won two - one as a starter and one coming on in relief, when you come on in relief of somebody in the playoffs unexpectedly you're usually going golfing soon.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

The goalies I mentioned in my post are/were every bit as good as Osgood... unfortunately for them they weren't playing on the Wings...

Osgood is the Bic lighter of goaltenders... useful, but easily replaced.

You are out of your mind.

Please show us how good those goalies are/were every bit as good. I'd love to see your reasoning.

Out of those goalies, none outside of Irbe have taken their team to a Stanley Cup Final. Fernandez went to a conference final one time, splitting goaltending duties with Roloson in Minnesota in 2003. Tugnutt and Rhodes shared goaltending duties in Ottawa in the mid-90s and the best they could do was the conference semifinals one year. (If anybody else has extra stats/credentials to add on/refute me, please do so, this is based off my knowledge when I remembered players a lot more when I was younger).

Osgood has done his fair share of helping his teams go to three Stanley Cup Finals and winning two of them. Of those three playoff years, he's had GAA's of 2.12, 1.55, and 2.01. He has over 70 playoff wins to his credit, and a save percentage of over 91.5% in the playoffs when it counts most. He only had one losing season so far, last year.

Those are not mistakes.

The only one in here so far who is overvaluing Osgood is eva unit zero. You, predictably, are undervaluing him. Everybody else here gets that he isn't elite, but he has pretty much always been servicable and reliable throughout his career.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

You've got to be kidding me with those names.

How many of those goalies have won a Stanley Cup? None. Only Irbe has come somewhat close.

And Osgood has won two - one as a starter three - two as a starter and one coming on in relief, when you come on in relief of somebody in the playoffs unexpectedly you're usually going golfing soon.

Fixed it for you.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Fixed it for you.

Either/or works. Thanks.

Three technically of course, point of mine basically being he's won two as the primary honcho.

[McAwesome 754]

Obviously Belfour is ahead of him and Roy was still very good.

Four from that time period just might be it. There are still a handful of better to just-as-good goalies still not in the HHoF. The committee has a much higher bar for goalies than it does for skaters.

Without a doubt, Roy and Belfour are the greatest goalies of their generation, with Hasek, Osgood and Belfour being worthy of elite status.

I'd put Belfour and Osgood at about the same level. Granted, Belfour has more individual awards (Calder, 2 Vezinas) and played longer resulting in more career wins, but the percentages actually favor Osgood:

Belfour, 484 wins / 963 GP = 50.2% win percentage (regular season)

88 wins / 161 GP = 54.6% win percentage (playoffs)

Osgood, 396 wins / 7733 GP = 54.0% win percentage (regular season)

74 wins / 129 GP = 57.9% win percentage (playoffs)

Their GAA and save pct. are very similar:

Belfour, 2.50 GAA, .906 save pct, 76 shutouts (regular season)

2.17 GAA, .920 save pct, 14 shutouts (playoffs)

Osgood, 2.49 GAA, .905 save pct, 50 shutouts (regular season)

2.09 GAA, .916 save pct, 15 shutouts (playoffs)

Ultimately, I feel both should go into the hall, and if Osgood can get enough playing time to break 400 wins and we win the Cup, whether he is the starter or not I think that will seal the deal for him.

[softshoes 83]

He's a 400 game winner with 50 shutouts and 2 Cups as a starter, and some of the best playoff numbers ever. If you can SERIOUSLY tell me that he's not going into the Hall, then you are on drugs.

It's not what I think that counts. If you don't know how people perceive him then check this thread once in a while, or previous Osgood threads. You'll discover that many Wings fans feel that way too. A lot of people think he is the product of player playing goal for great Wings teams.

Personally I think he should be in without question.