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Hockeytown0001

4/6 GDT: Red Wings 0 at Hurricanes 3

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He was being sarcastic, as was I when I replied to him. :D

Uhhh, I realise that mate. It's the same every post with hero Crymson, he'll attack any poster who says anything remotely negative aboout the team. And then after every loss he'll have the same, "Oh we suck, Howard needs to go, Lidstrom needs to retire" ect sarcasm post, and a dig at anyone who has legitimate concerns over the state of this team.

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Uhhh, I realise that mate. It's the same every post with hero Crymson, he'll attack any poster who says anything remotely negative aboout the team. And then after every loss he'll have the same, "Oh we suck, Howard needs to go, Lidstrom needs to retire" ect sarcasm post, and a dig at anyone who has legitimate concerns over the state of this team.

I don't mind if someone says something negative about the team, just make it an informed comment or post. I love discussing things like that in detail with people.

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Guest Crymson   
Guest Crymson

Uhhh, I realise that mate. It's the same every post with hero Crymson, he'll attack any poster who says anything remotely negative aboout the team. And then after every loss he'll have the same, "Oh we suck, Howard needs to go, Lidstrom needs to retire" ect sarcasm post, and a dig at anyone who has legitimate concerns over the state of this team.

Massive hyperbole for the win I suppose.

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Guest Crymson   
Guest Crymson

Seems par for the course, actually.

I'll leave it to you to recognize the irony in this statement.

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Correct. I have every confidence that this team will excel in the playoffs. I don't care a single bit about the possibility of disappointment. Apparently the latter is not true of you.

It really does take an informed hockey fan to know that there are three seasons in hockey...

preseason

regular season

playoffs

Just because a team dominates in the preseason doesn't mean that they will have a great regular season or the opposite happens.

Just because a team has a difficult portion of the regular season, but still makes the playoffs, doesn't mean that they are going to fail in the playoffs. Look at countless 7 or 8 seeded teams who beat top seeded teams. Montreal last year? Philadelphia who got in on the last shootout of the season last season? They played lazy, but still got in and then made it to the cup finals and the conference finals. How did that happen? Pure luck?

The playoffs are all that matters, and in this day and age of parity in the NHL, anyone can win.

The Wings are going for a deep run into the playoffs.

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I'll leave it to you to recognize the irony in this statement.

I'm aware that you are attempting to mock me. However I get into it with you consistently based on YOUR posts which do just about what he said to mock other "Negative Nancy" posters.

The Wings are going for a deep run into the playoffs.

I honestly am curious why you have the idea that they will have a deep run based on this season.

Edited by Doc Holliday

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I honestly am curious why you have the idea that they will have a deep run based on this season.

Take the time to answer my questions that I posed to you and actually read my post to you. I feel I already covered it in that mostly. Heck, I covered it in that post you just picked that one sentence out of.

3 seasons

preseason - doesn't matter

regular season - get into playoffs, otherwise doesn't matter

playoffs - what really matters

Washington last season, #1 regular season, out first round.

Montreal last season, #8 regular season, conference finals.

Philadelphia last season, #7 regular season and needed to win in shootout, cup finals.

Coincidence? Luck?

No one really knows how far their team is going to make it in the playoffs. Everything is a factor. I just have faith the Wings are going to make a deep run this season. To say they are going out first round or not going to do anything because of bad play now is really no indication of playoff success. If it was, teams who finish on a tear at the end of the season would win the cup every time. The top teams in the league would win the cup every year. Just the fact that the presidents trophy winners only win the cup 25% of the time should be a good indication that anything can happen come playoff time.

Now, knowing this information, how can you be so pessimistic? Shouldn't you be a little optimistic or at least wait and see how they do when the playoff start until you bury the Wings?

Edited by Nightfall

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I'm aware that you are attempting to mock me. However I get into it with you consistently based on YOUR posts which do just about what he said to mock other "Negative Nancy" posters.

I honestly am curious why you have the idea that they will have a deep run based on this season.

Me too, I'd love to know what it is that makes people confidence about this years version of the Red Wings.

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Take the time to answer my questions that I posed to you and actually read my post to you. I feel I already covered it in that mostly.

Montreal had a great goaltender in Halak and shutdown defenders who stifled the opposition. They were tired after the first two rounds and weren't much trouble for the Flyers.

Philadelphia was riddled with injuries and had a terrible coach to start off in Stevens. Laviolette really helped turn that team around, and by the time they got to the end of the season they had improved to a much better team (it helped they played against a weak Devils team, a Bruins team that choked a 3-0 series (and game 7) lead away, and a Montreal team that had to contend with the offense of the Capitals and Penguins.

Hell, those examples don't really prove anything definite or likely simply because on the other hand you can pick many teams of the past who have had great records but were upset in the first two rounds. Does that give you a fair indication that the Wings will be upset? Absolutely not.

Even when Detroit was slumping in 2009 they had an obviously dominant offense and Osgood was able to show he could improve towards the end of the season over Conklin. The 2008 Wings were a force 80% of the season. The 2002 Wings were also a force. There was a serious indication they would do very very well against their opposition based on what they did overall in the course of a season.

Also if you want an honest discussion don't insult me.

The regular season isn't the be all end all of what you can do in the playoffs. But I don't really get confident that the Wings will go deep just because there are upsets in hockey. Detroit is going to be a top 3 seed, and will go up against teams that are looking for an upset. I get confident when I see a Red Wings team that over the course of the season shows they have what it takes against top quality competition. I have not seen that very much this season, and their play the last half of the season shows that. Do I think they will be swept in the first? No way. but I don't entirely consider them a favorite out of the West with the teams that are in it right now. Hell of a playoff class this season.

Edited by Doc Holliday

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Montreal had a great goaltender in Halak and shutdown defenders who stifled the opposition. They were tired after the first two rounds and weren't much trouble for the Flyers.

Philadelphia was riddled with injuries and had a terrible coach to start off in Stevens. Laviolette really helped turn that team around, and by the time they got to the end of the season they had improved to a much better team (it helped they played against a weak Devils team, a Bruins team that choked a 3-0 series (and game 7) lead away, and a Montreal team that had to contend with the offense of the Capitals and Penguins.

Hell, those examples don't really prove anything definite or likely simply because on the other hand you can pick many teams of the past who have had great records but were upset in the first two rounds. Does that give you a fair indication that the Wings will be upset? Absolutely not.

Even when Detroit was slumping in 2009 they had an obviously dominant offense and Osgood was able to show he could improve towards the end of the season over Conklin. The 2008 Wings were a force 80% of the season. The 2002 Wings were also a force. There was a serious indication they would do very very well against their opposition based on what they did overall in the course of a season.

No, it doesn't give a fair indiciation that the Wings will or won't be upset. You just don't know until the playoffs hit what is going to happen. Certain players find their grooves when the playoffs arrive. I could point out countless instances of teams who had strong regular season finishes or winning consistantly throughout the regular season only to find themselves out in the first or second round.

Once again, the regular season success does not mean your team is going to be successful in winning the cup. Same goes for substandard success in the regular season. Even a 7 or 8 seeded team can win playoff series against top teams. Look at Edmonton back in 2006 when they beat out all the top teams in the Western Conference and then lost to Carolina in the finals. If Roloson wouldn't have gotten hurt, they would have won the cup that year.

We could go back and forth on this. Every team has a chance to win. Some players elevate their games to a new level. I firmly believe the Wings will do that this year and make it to the Conference finals. Once again, I ask you, knowing all this information, can you say in your pessimistic heart that the Wings are dead and buried come playoff time?

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Also if you want an honest discussion don't insult me.

The regular season isn't the be all end all of what you can do in the playoffs. But I don't really get confident that the Wings will go deep just because there are upsets in hockey. Detroit is going to be a top 3 seed, and will go up against teams that are looking for an upset. I get confident when I see a Red Wings team that over the course of the season shows they have what it takes against top quality competition. I have not seen that very much this season, and their play the last half of the season shows that. Do I think they will be swept in the first? No way. but I don't entirely consider them a favorite out of the West with the teams that are in it right now. Hell of a playoff class this season.

I haven't levied one insult your way since we started having an informed discussion. I haven't been insulted either, so lets focus on the discussion at hand which I really am enjoying. If you got the impression I was insulting you just now, I apologize for that is not my intention.

I totally agree with you on your last paragraph. Do I feel the Wings are the favorite in the West? Nope. I still think that Vancouver has the inside track to that. Watching Washington on Center Ice this season has also been enjoyable. Their transformation was like watching Detroit back in 1996 when they had to change from a finesse team to a defensive team. As you said, there is a hell of a playoff class this year. IMHO, anyone can win this year. I could see the Hawks taking 8th spot and getting to the finals again this year.

My point is this, the Wings fans can be pessimistic all they want, the fact of the matter is that regular season domination does not lead to a cup. Struggling at the end of the season doesn't mean the Wings are dead and buried. When the playoffs hit, its a new slate and thats the time to grade this team.

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We could go back and forth on this. Every team has a chance to win. Some players elevate their games to a new level. I firmly believe the Wings will do that this year and make it to the Conference finals. Once again, I ask you, knowing all this information, can you say in your pessimistic heart that the Wings are dead and buried come playoff time?

First off, I don' think that they are "dead and buried". I just do not have the utmost faith and belief that they will make a deep run (second round is where I think they would be headed this season) for a number of reasons.

1. The West has serious parity. Most of the lower seeded teams have a serious chance to upset any of the top 3 or 4.

2. The Red Wings have not been consistent this season. After going on a 20 game tear that had them at the class of the league, the opponents got harder, the schedule was more brutal, and the Wings began to play mediocre.

3. We have a question mark in net, who was hot and cold last playoffs and isn't playing any better than he did last season. He could turn it around, but there is no reason to think he has a switch in his second NHL season.

4. The defense hasn't looked good at all. Lidstrom is slower (yet still reliable), Stuart doesn't communicate well with Lidstrom, Rafalski is once again being terrible defensively, and the bottom players are on the whole not playing very well when it comes to stifling the opponent's opportunities

5. The offense has had some great spurts but since January has had issues at some point with every part of the roster. However this is one of the few parts of the team this season that I think can turn the switch based on last year.

Now is there anything that they have shown this season that leads you to believe I have no idea what I'm talking about other than what teams have done in the playoffs in the past (which could make you confident or pessimistic depending on which series you focus on)?

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Guest Crymson   
Guest Crymson

Yes, Doc Holliday would rather go into the playoffs with less hope rather than more hope. It means less risk of disappointment for him, and we all know that the desire to avoid disappointment is the mark of a true fan.

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Now is there anything that they have shown this season that leads you to believe I have no idea what I'm talking about other than what teams have done in the playoffs in the past (which could make you confident or pessimistic depending on which series you focus on)?

1. Agree

2. Once again, consistency has nothing to do with playoff success or failure

3. Leighton was a question mark last season, and he led his team to the finals. Halak was also a question mark, and led his team to the conference finals. Look at all the goalies this season who are question marks. Luongo hasn't had a lot of playoff success. Neimi won the cup last season. I think the Sharks have the inside track here. Howard is a question mark. Crawford is a big question mark. Rinne is a question mark. Point is there are no guarantees. Howard could pick it up and carry his team to a stanley cup. Then again he could falter and they be out in the first round. Every team has question marks.

4. Totally agree. Detroits defense is really going to need to step it up. Their goals allowed makes me nervous as well. I just look at the pedigrees of the players on this team and they are all playoff tested stanley cup winning players. Kronwall, Stuart, Rafalski (multi cup winner with the Devils and Wings), and Lidstrom as our top 4? Thats just great, but I do agree they need to improve.

5. Agree

I think we can both agree it really just matters if you are a glass half full or half empty kind of person. I am a glass half full guy, and I believe in the Wings just looking at the stats and figures from playoffs past. I can also see how a pessimistic person could look at the stats and think the Wings are doomed. We won't know any of these things until the playoffs are over and we can look at the results and discuss them.

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Yes, Doc Holliday would rather go into the playoffs with less hope rather than more hope. It means less risk of disappointment for him, and we all know that the desire to avoid disappointment is the mark of a true fan.

Did I say I have no hope?

I'm making an assessment of what I think the Wings have issues with and how that will make things difficult for them in the playoffs.

I hope they win the cup and will be cheering for them every step of the way. But I do have worries and have explicitly stated them. They are perfectly reasonable criticisms and you ignored them and chose instead to make ridiculous quips to make personal attacks.

What did I say about you not talking hockey often?

1. Agree

2. Once again, consistency has nothing to do with playoff success or failure

3. Leighton was a question mark last season, and he led his team to the finals. Halak was also a question mark, and led his team to the conference finals. Look at all the goalies this season who are question marks. Luongo hasn't had a lot of playoff success. Neimi won the cup last season. I think the Sharks have the inside track here. Howard is a question mark. Crawford is a big question mark. Rinne is a question mark. Point is there are no guarantees. Howard could pick it up and carry his team to a stanley cup. Then again he could falter and they be out in the first round. Every team has question marks.

4. Totally agree. Detroits defense is really going to need to step it up. Their goals allowed makes me nervous as well. I just look at the pedigrees of the players on this team and they are all playoff tested stanley cup winning players. Kronwall, Stuart, Rafalski (multi cup winner with the Devils and Wings), and Lidstrom as our top 4? Thats just great, but I do agree they need to improve.

5. Agree

I think we can both agree it really just matters if you are a glass half full or half empty kind of person. I am a glass half full guy, and I believe in the Wings just looking at the stats and figures from playoffs past. I can also see how a pessimistic person could look at the stats and think the Wings are doomed. We won't know any of these things until the playoffs are over and we can look at the results and discuss them.

2. I believe if the team doesn't show up for consistent stretches (such as cup winners of the past) I think that poses an issue

3. You have a point on goaltenders being able to turn it around (I also believe Crawford is going to play poorly in the playoffs with Chicago)

It is all about whether you agree or disagree (and I can easily accept people having belief that the team will turn it around)I don't see it based on what I have seen from the team, but I can understand if posters here believe the team has what it takes to do very well.

Edited by Doc Holliday

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Yes, Doc Holliday would rather go into the playoffs with less hope rather than more hope. It means less risk of disappointment for him, and we all know that the desire to avoid disappointment is the mark of a true fan.

75% of the LGW forum members would rather have this attitude. I remember back in 2008 when the collective fans were all up in arms about the Wings chances to win the cup. They bitched about certain players, especially Dallas Drake who everyone wanted to sit because he was considered to be a detriment to the team. Then, when the Wings won the cup, everyone in this forum stood and cheered Drake for winning his cup. Everyone had faith when the Wings lifted the cup. 25% of them had faith when the playoff started. This season its even worse because the Wings aren't going to win the Presidents trophy which means that they aren't a favorite. Its easy to jump on the "failwagon" when your team isn't the favorite.

I play hockey all the time, and I love being the lower seeded team and winning in the playoffs. My team won a game 2-1 last year against a 2nd ranked team and we were #7. One of the best games I played, but we as a team played an awesome game. Its amazing how when you have an optimistic playoff performing team, how anything is possible.

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Guest Crymson   
Guest Crymson

:lol:

You never stop do you?

You and Aussie Wing are doing your best to argue that the team you supposedly root for will fail. What does that say about the two of you as supporters of this team?

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Guest Crymson   
Guest Crymson

:unsure:

That we're not blind homers?

No. Hope and faith are choices. I choose to hold hope and faith that the Wings will win. You don't. Why not?

Edited by Crymson

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2. I believe if the team doesn't show up for consistent stretches (such as cup winners of the past) I think that poses an issue

3. You have a point on goaltenders being able to turn it around (I also believe Crawford is going to play poorly in the playoffs with Chicago)

It is all about whether you agree or disagree (and I can easily accept people having belief that the team will turn it around)I don't see it based on what I have seen from the team, but I can understand if posters here believe the team has what it takes to do very well.

You are right on #2. Any cup winning team should be excelling through the playoffs. At least that is what I thought until I started playing the game. I have won 28 league championships in the last 12 years. All my teams have not been the best in the regular season. Some just barely make the playoffs. Yet, there are certain players who just know how to turn a switch and play hard in playoffs. I don't know why, but it happens.

I really believe that the Sharks are going to have a great playoff run this year because of Niemi in net. As for Crawford faltering, as much as I think they will do well, there is always a chance of that happening. Look at Brodeur in his last few playoff series. He used to be dominant. Now, he is average. We will never know until the playoffs start.

Thanks for the great discussion on this by the way. Its great to have a good debate and discussion on the Wings and hockey in general.

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In one week we all start 0-0. The teams that are playing great hope that they can keep it up and the teams playing mediocre (Wings) feel like its a chance for a fresh start. Take all the regular season starts and chuck them out the window. Intangibles are more important than anything this time of year . It's time to go on a 2 month heater play lights out and win the cup again.

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Guest Heaten   
Guest Heaten

Sharks are getting spanked, tonight would have been the perfect opportunity to regain 2nd place.

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