Two Year Plan

[wingsownnhl43 14]

As we all know, these next two offseasons will be huge for Ken Holland and the Detroit Red Wings. The core is getting a little bit older, Lidstrom will most likely retire, the Wings are starting to give up as many shots as I can remember, etc. It will be huge for Holland to firstly, rebuild the defense, and also find some forwards to support Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Franzen as the get older. Luckily, we will have some expiring contracts over the next two seasons, and the cap will likely grow, so Holland will have some flexibility.

2011-12 - Estimated cap increase of $4million

- Lidstrom resigns at 1 year, $6million

- Ericsson resigns at 3 years, $4.5million

- Eaves resigns at 3 years, $2.7million

- Mursak added to roster

- Osgood or any backup goalie sings for $750k

- Draper resigns at 1 year, $650k

- Trade Hudler for a bag of pucks

Outside the organization

- Sign D Kevin Bieksa at 5 years, $25million (hopefully makes it hard for Vancouver to sign him)

- Sign F Cody McCormick at 2 years, $1.4million

- Sign F Erik Cole at 2 years, $6million

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS

Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m)

Erik Cole ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen ($3.954m)

Daniel Cleary ($2.800m) / Darren Helm ($0.912m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($1.937m)

Jan Mursak ($0.550m) / Justin Abdelkader ($0.787m) / Patrick Eaves ($0.900m)

/ Kris Draper ($0.650m) / Cody McCormick ($0.700m)

DEFENSEMEN

Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.000m) / Kevin Bieksa ($5.000m)

Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m) / Brad Stuart ($3.750m)

Brian Rafalski ($6.000m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($1.500m)

/ Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)

GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) / Chris Osgood ($0.750m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)

(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)

SALARY CAP: $63,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,983,711; BONUSES: $0

CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $416,289

2012-13 Estimated cap increase of $2million

Losses = D Nick Lidstrom, D Brian Rafalski, F Tomas Holmstrom, F Todd Bertuzzi, F Kris Draper

- Tatar added to roster

- Nyquist added to roster

- Brendan Smith added to roster

- Sign D Ryan Suter at 5 years, $35million (signing either Ryan Suter or Brent Burns has to be #1 priority to this offseason)

- Sign F Shane Doan at 2 years, $8million (a guy you love to hate. comes for a shot at the cup)

- Sign D Barrett Jackman at 2 years, $6million (or any defenseman we can lock up at around $3million. Hard to project who we could grab at that price range)

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS

Tomas Tatar ($0.870m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Shane Doan ($4.000m)

Gustav Nyquist ($0.762m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen ($3.954m)

Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Darren Helm ($2.000m) / Erik Cole ($3.000m)

Daniel Cleary ($2.800m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.750m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m)

/ Patrick Eaves ($0.900m) / Cody McCormick ($0.700m)

DEFENSEMEN

Ryan Suter ($7.000m) / Barret Jackman ($3.000m)

Niklas Kronwall ($5.000m) / Kevin Bieksa ($5.000m)

Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.500m)

/ Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)

GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) / Chris Osgood ($0.750m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)

(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)

SALARY CAP: $65,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,257,000; BONUSES: $210,000

CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $143,000

[HankthaTank 1,100]

A lot of this is reasonable, but I sure as hell hope we don't give Ericsson 1.5 a year but actually show him the door. That's an overpayment for a guy who turns the puck over an awful lot and hardly uses his big frame.

[mmamolo 287]

If my memory serves me I believe Ericsson actually salary this year is about $1.25M so if the Wings plan on keeping him you'll see his cap his probably in the neighborhood of what the OP listed.

I'm also a fan of the Bieksa signing although I don't know about $5M per. It may take that to get it done but I dont know that he's worth $5M. I believe his cap hit is $3.75M so I wouldn't think he'd need that big of a raise. But you do bring up a good point that it may take that much money for Vancouver to not be able to keep him.

Also, I believe there are better options than Erik Cole but that's just me.

[hooon 1,089]

Please no more Ericsson. He hasn't shown any improvement in so long, makes huge gamechanging mistakes every night, doesn't utilize his size or his shot.

If we are going to have a whipping-boy Dman that constantly disappoints, we might as well have one that plays for league minimum or close to it, or even a guy that can fight.

I had high hopes for Big E, but so far he has proven himself no more functional than any other big Dman plug in the NHL, last night's HUGE goal aside.

[matt198913 932]

Lol at Bieksa getting 5 mil and Doan getting 4 mil... I want Bieksa as much as any Red Wing fan I think he could be a good SECOND or THIRD pair D man. By the way do realize that some one else is going to be a free agent in 3 years... PAVEL needs to be resigned.... As far as next year what about Fleisman

Please no more Ericsson. He hasn't shown any improvement in so long, makes huge gamechanging mistakes every night, doesn't utilize his size or his shot.

If we are going to have a whipping-boy Dman that constantly disappoints, we might as well have one that plays for league minimum or close to it, or even a guy that can fight.

I had high hopes for Big E, but so far he has proven himself no more functional than any other big Dman plug in the NHL, last night's HUGE goal aside.

E needs to stay... He's so close to what he could be

[HankthaTank 1,100]

I like Laich... would look terrific in a Wings sweater.

[matt198913 932]

I like Laich... would look terrific in a Wings sweater.

Thats another one. If we could get him for Cleary money that would make sense.

[dirtydangles 1,328]

you left out stuart on the second year. id rather go after ladd, ehrhoff, hanzal than doan, bieksa, cole have less potential imo.

[Cali-Wing-Nut 102]

Lol at Bieksa getting 5 mil and Doan getting 4 mil... I want Bieksa as much as any Red Wing fan I think he could be a good SECOND or THIRD pair D man. By the way do realize that some one else is going to be a free agent in 3 years... PAVEL needs to be resigned.... As far as next year what about Fleisman

E needs to stay... He's so close to what he could be

You are soooo high on drugs. He is what youve seen.

Great poster for Johnny Turnover

If he is resigned to play for Grand Rapids Ill drink a bottle of Draino

[Guest mjtm77]

why is stuart not on the second one?

[eva unit zero 271]

Assuming the cap increases by $3m (just over 5%) for each of the next two seasons, this is what I would want:

FORWARDS

Jiri Hudler ($2.875m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Daniel Cleary ($2.800m)

Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m)

Johan Franzen ($3.954m) / Justin Abdelkader ($0.787m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($1.937m)

Jan Mursak ($0.550m) / Darren Helm ($0.912m) / Patrick Eaves ($0.875m)

Cory Emmerton ($0.533m)

DEFENSEMEN

Nicklas Lidstrom ($3.250m) / Brian Rafalski ($6.000m)

Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m) / Brad Stuart ($3.750m)

Christian Ehrhoff ($4.750m) / Joni Pitkanen ($5.000m)

Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)

GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) / Chris Osgood ($0.525m)

CAP PAYROLL: $62,267,044; BONUSES: $0

CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $107,956

Even though the team has only minor turnover, the improvement is significant. In the summer of 2012, the team has 6 players whose current contracts make them UFAs, and 2 who would be RFAs. Add Lidstrom and Osgood to that list in my example. Likely Rafalski, Holmstrom, and Lidstrom would be retiring at that point. For the sake of this exercise, Osgood's choice on retiring doesn't matter as another goaltender would get his salary or similar.

For players on my prospective 2011-12 roster who would be signed through at least 2012-13, the Wings would be at 8 forwards, 3 defensemen, and one goalie. Total cost of just under $37.5m. Jiri Hudler, Darren Helm, Justin Abdelkader, and Niklas Kronwall would increase that to 11-4, and if he chooses to keep playing Todd Bertuzzi makes it 12-4. The total cost of the first four should be about $11-12m, and Bertuzzi adds another $1.5m to the bunch. Promote Brendan Smith; that's $875k to the defense, and 12-5. Bring up Tomas Tatar to take Homer's spot on Dats' right side, at least hopefully. That's another $875k.

Furthermore, it's a Wings team with just under $13m in cap space that is in need of two defensemen, that already has three top-pairing caliber defensemen. The Wings do lose Lidstrom this (theoretical) offseason, but there are two top-end defensemen available who would be excellent fits on the Wings; it's even possible, though unlikely, that both could be acquired for that $13m. Those defensemen are Alex Edler and Tobias Enstrom. Edler, of course, is preferred. He's younger and fits the Wings' system better, plus he plays with Ehrhoff in Vancouver. If one or both can't be had, Stuart would naturally be an option (unless he was rapidly signed away by another team) and for a third-pairing defenseman, you would be hard pressed to find anyone better than Brad Stuart.

FORWARDS

Jiri Hudler ($3.250m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Daniel Cleary ($2.800m)

Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Tomas Tatar ($0.875m)

Johan Franzen ($3.954m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.125m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($1.500m)

Jan Mursak ($0.550m) / Darren Helm ($2.000m) / Patrick Eaves ($0.875m)

Cory Emmerton ($0.533m)

DEFENSEMEN

Niklas Kronwall ($3.250m) / Tobias Enstrom ($5.750m) - Will we see 80 point seasons from Kronwall with this pairing?

Alex Edler ($6.250m) / Christian Ehrhoff ($4.750m)

Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) / Joni Pitkanen ($5.000m)

Brendan Smith ($0.875m)

GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) / Chris Osgood ($0.525m)

CAP PAYROLL: $64,756,044; BONUSES: $210,000

CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $743,956

I left a good deal of space open to account for Tatar's bonus, as well as any trades. I don't think this team would need to make anything more than a minor adjustment at the deadline however.

Edited May 15, 2011 by eva unit zero

[wingsownnhl43 14]

I just dont see Hudler being on our top line next season, let alone getting a raise the following season when he's not even good enough to crack our line up right now.

[HankthaTank 1,100]

I just dont see Hudler being on our top line next season, let alone getting a raise the following season when he's not even good enough to crack our line up right now.

Just look at who posted this... Rationale sort of flew out the door.

[eva unit zero 271]

I just dont see Hudler being on our top line next season, let alone getting a raise the following season when he's not even good enough to crack our line up right now.

Just look at who posted this... Rationale sort of flew out the door.

Ultimately it comes down to two things. 1) Good defensemen are harder to come by than good forwards. 2) It's entirely possible that Jakub Kindl will be the only returning member of the current top-seven defensemen, come the 2012-13 season.

Hudler is not a bad player. I know that's a tough pill to swallow for some of you. But he's a skilled player who has top-end scoring ability. When he's played with Dats and Z he hasn't just "looked good" and shown some of his offensive ability, like many players do. He worked amazingly with them, and looked great; like a legit first line winger.

Put him with one of them full time. Let's see what happens. You know as well as I do that, if he's playing with Dats or Z full-time, the worst case scenario is Hudler only scores around 60 points. He's good offensively, he clicks with other good offensive players, and he meshes very well with Dats and Z.

[weGotTheCup89 41]

Presenting... OSGOOD THE SINGING GOALIE!!!

or any other backup, which I think we can get this guy for a lot less:

[Guest Grayne Wetzky]

Good God. Does Tomas Holmstrom get a free pass to play on the Wings' first line no matter how old, slow, and power play only effective he gets? Darren Helm has worked his ass off with scrubs on his line for the last 2 years, and is arguably our 3rd best forward. Why does he always find his way into the 4th line for everybody on here? I think maybe Babcock does read these message boards!!!

Helm-Zetterberg-Franzen

Filppula-Datsyuk-Cleary

Mursak-Abdelkader-Bertuzzi

Eaves-Miller-Holmstrom

Tatar - Emmerton

Lidstrom - Ericsson

Kronwall - Salei

Rafalski - Stuart

Kindl

Howard

McCollum

That's what I'd do.

[Jesusberg 1,256]

Hudler is not a bad player. I know that's a tough pill to swallow for some of you. But he's a skilled player who has top-end scoring ability.

So he's going to go from healthy scratch to top line forward? Impressive. Let me know when he exhibits that top-end scoring ability. I've been dying to see it.

As long as Hudler plays soft and slow, none of his "ability" is going to matter.

[eva unit zero 271]

Good God. Does Tomas Holmstrom get a free pass to play on the Wings' first line no matter how old, slow, and power play only effective he gets? Darren Helm has worked his ass off with scrubs on his line for the last 2 years, and is arguably our 3rd best forward. Why does he always find his way into the 4th line for everybody on here? I think maybe Babcock does read these message boards!!!

Holmstrom finds that spot because he is the league's best net-front presence, and because he is basically useless outside of that role. A Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Homer line or a Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Bertuzzi line wouldn't be much different in overall style, purpose, and impact. Bertuzzi is a bit quicker and better defensively, Homer better at redirecting pucks. But you can play a third line of Cleary/Abdelkader/Bertuzzi and have success. That wouldn't work with Holmstrom. He's the ultimate unitasker. If you need a guy to have a guy redirect pucks, he's your man. Nobody better. But he's a mediocre player.

Helm is one of the team's best players. But he's much better defensively than he is offensively. And when considering your lineup, you don't just list your top 12 forwards, and make them 1-3, 4-6, 7-9-10-12. It doesn't work that way. The Wings typically run three scoring lines and a shut-down line. Helm is the core of that shut-down line.

So he's going to go from healthy scratch to top line forward? Impressive. Let me know when he exhibits that top-end scoring ability. I've been dying to see it.

As long as Hudler plays soft and slow, none of his "ability" is going to matter.

Hudler not being a big, banging forward or having rocket fuel in his skates does not mean he is not capable of top-end scoring. Hudler's numbers from Feb 7th to Feb 28th this season are virtually identical to Datsyuk's playoff stats. Hudler went 4-10-14 in 11 to Dats' 3-11-14 in 10. That scoring pace would have put Hudler at 30 goals and 105 points. And an Art Ross trophy. But no, that's not top-end scoring ability.

[Buppy 1,720]

Hudler not being a big, banging forward or having rocket fuel in his skates does not mean he is not capable of top-end scoring. Hudler's numbers from Feb 7th to Feb 28th this season are virtually identical to Datsyuk's playoff stats. Hudler went 4-10-14 in 11 to Dats' 3-11-14 in 10. That scoring pace would have put Hudler at 30 goals and 105 points. And an Art Ross trophy. But no, that's not top-end scoring ability.

11 games does not a season make...

Happy is good offensively, and when he tries hard he can be good defensively. But he has three things working against him:

1. Too slow and too small to consistently play good defense. Takes too much energy, especially if he had to face top line players (as the Wings typically match top lines).

2. We already have too many playmakers on the top lines. He's more of a passer than a shooter and he's even regressed in that area from his last season with us.

3. Most importantly, he has an ultra-short leash from Babs. Too often he gives less than full effort and/or makes dumb mistakes at crucial times. Maybe it isn't entirely fair, but it's there.

He could overcome one, maybe even two. Just not all three. Barring any major change in roster, coach, or Hudler's play he won't be more than a depth forward on this team.

[eva unit zero 271]

Hudler not being a big, banging forward or having rocket fuel in his skates does not mean he is not capable of top-end scoring. Hudler's numbers from Feb 7th to Feb 28th this season are virtually identical to Datsyuk's playoff stats. Hudler went 4-10-14 in 11 to Dats' 3-11-14 in 10. That scoring pace would have put Hudler at 30 goals and 105 points. And an Art Ross trophy. But no, that's not top-end scoring ability.

11 games does not a season make...

Happy is good offensively, and when he tries hard he can be good defensively. But he has three things working against him:

1. Too slow and too small to consistently play good defense. Takes too much energy, especially if he had to face top line players (as the Wings typically match top lines).

2. We already have too many playmakers on the top lines. He's more of a passer than a shooter and he's even regressed in that area from his last season with us.

3. Most importantly, he has an ultra-short leash from Babs. Too often he gives less than full effort and/or makes dumb mistakes at crucial times. Maybe it isn't entirely fair, but it's there.

He could overcome one, maybe even two. Just not all three. Barring any major change in roster, coach, or Hudler's play he won't be more than a depth forward on this team.

Hudler/Zetterberg and Hudler/Datsyuk work just fine. Why? Hudler can be both a passer and a shooter. He has a good shot, but as you said he is more a passer and this is because he is an excellent passer. However, Dats and Z can fill either role, so unlike the Huds/Flip combo where you remove Hudler's best skill because he is a much better shooter than Flip, Dats or Z can be the primary shooter of the two. This does not "overload" the top two lines with playmakers because ultimately you want your top two lines to have passing skill, right? The line I placed Hudler on was Hudler/Zetterberg/Cleary, a line we KNOW works very well. Filppula/Datsyuk/Holmstrom we also know works well. Putting Tatar in is untested, but a speedy scoring winger with two skilled playmakers can't be a bad thing, right? Franzen/Abby/Bert works. We know that. Mursak/Helm/Eaves works. We know that. Four lines we already know work well. I really can't see what you are complaining about, unless you simply don't want Hudler whether he helps the team or not. Which is a worthless argument.

[Buppy 1,720]

Hudler/Zetterberg and Hudler/Datsyuk work just fine. Why? Hudler can be both a passer and a shooter. He has a good shot, but as you said he is more a passer and this is because he is an excellent passer. However, Dats and Z can fill either role, so unlike the Huds/Flip combo where you remove Hudler's best skill because he is a much better shooter than Flip, Dats or Z can be the primary shooter of the two. This does not "overload" the top two lines with playmakers because ultimately you want your top two lines to have passing skill, right? The line I placed Hudler on was Hudler/Zetterberg/Cleary, a line we KNOW works very well. Filppula/Datsyuk/Holmstrom we also know works well. Putting Tatar in is untested, but a speedy scoring winger with two skilled playmakers can't be a bad thing, right? Franzen/Abby/Bert works. We know that. Mursak/Helm/Eaves works. We know that. Four lines we already know work well. I really can't see what you are complaining about, unless you simply don't want Hudler whether he helps the team or not. Which is a worthless argument.

It's not a matter of what I want or even what theoretically would work. Just an observation of the situation.

Our coach doesn't like Hudler's game. I think that's obvious. So my conclusion is that, barring a change in roster that leaves no other options or a change in Hudler's game to make him indespensible to the top lines or a change in coaches, he won't be there.

And I think you're overlooking the value he can have as a depth scorer. Granted you can same the same for Flip, Mule, Bert, Cleary or whoever gets pushed down. But no matter what someone is going to be less productive than they otherwise would be. Cleary and Homer, with their ability to play the front of the net and work in the corners compliment Pav/Hank better. Franzen is maybe the closest thing to a pure goal scorer we have. Bert, Flip, and Huds are all good playmakers capable of playing well with star players. Huds may be the best offensively, but Flip offers a much more complete game, and Bert is at least a big body capable of being physical and doing the dirty work. Both, IMO, outweigh Hudler's extra offense.

We'll likely lose some of those players, but if we do I think we'd be better served finding replacement options other than Hudler. If we can do that and still afford to keep Hudler on as a 3rd-liner/PP specialist all the better. I just don't see him ever being a top 6 forward on this team.