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GSBrooks13

10/11 Hockeyfights.com awards voting...

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How many of the recent cups have come without an enforcer on the team? I'll save you the time- the answer is zero.

To continue in this vain:

How many of the recent cups (in the last ten years) have come without Hasek on the team? Zero

How many cups have the Wings won when they have had a GF-GA differential under +50? Zero

How many cups have the Wings won recently without McCarty on the team? Zero

How many cups have the Wings won recently without Maltby on the team? Zero

How many cups have the Wings won since Pronger moved to the eastern conference? Zero

How many cups have the Wings won since the Coyotes started to play good hockey consistently? Zero

How many cups have the wings won recently when they have not played exactly 6 games in the first round? Zero

Not to teach anyone here any science, but theres an old saying: "Correlation does not imply causation"

Edited by Shaman464
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To continue in this vain:

How many of the recent cups (in the last ten years) have come without Hasek on the team? Zero

How many cups have the Wings won when they have had a GF-GA differential under +50? Zero

How many cups have the Wings won recently without McCarty on the team? Zero

How many cups have the Wings won recently without Maltby on the team? Zero

How many cups have the Wings won since Pronger moved to the eastern conference? Zero

How many cups have the Wings won since the Coyotes started to play good hockey consistently? Zero

How many cups have the wings won recently when they have not played exactly 6 games in the first round? Zero

Not to teach anyone here any science, but theres an old saying: "Correlation does not imply causation"

If you've read my posts concerning this topic before, I have never implied causation. The post was in response to a poster saying the Wings had the most cups despite being the worst enforcing team. I intended the comment to be slightly ridiculous because the poster's claim was ridiculous.

I think most posters here can see I wasn't implying the Wings need an enforcer, especially if you see my first post in this thread. Now you obviously are anti-enforcer and only enter these threads to pick away at pro-enforcer arguments. What is your view on the subject of worst enforcing team?

Edit- I don't want bring up science, but my post was using a counter-example to disprove the claim implied by the poster. Therefore, showing the Wings weren't the worst enforcing team in the years they won the cup is sufficient to disprove the implied claim that the Wings win the most cups while having the worst enforcing team.

Edited by WorkingOvertime

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If you've read my posts concerning this topic before, I have never implied causation. The post was in response to a poster saying the Wings had the most cups despite being the worst enforcing team. I intended the comment to be slightly ridiculous because the poster's claim was ridiculous.

I think most posters here can see I wasn't implying the Wings need an enforcer, especially if you see my first post in this thread. Now you obviously are anti-enforcer and only enter these threads to pick away at pro-enforcer arguments. What is your view on the subject of worst enforcing team?

I think in the Post lock out NHL and with the instigator penalty carrying an enforcer is not something the Wings need to do in order to be successful and though they keep voting us the worst enfocring team that shouldn't be taken as 'softest team'. I believe that the wings need some grit, but, since the wings will never lead the NHL in fights no matter how gritty the Wings are the pro-enforcer community will always see the Wings as soft.

Edited by Shaman464

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Freak injuries have ruined his career.

This guy was well on his way to being top dog in the NHL.

Broke his hand a while back didn't he? Messed up his thumb as well. Played in 16 games this past year. He's only 26. Hopefully he finds a home this summer and rebounds next year.

On a separate note, I'm personally pulling for Brian McGrattan to get a spot on an NHL roster next year. He had a great year in the AHL last year in Syracuse (Anaheim's AHL Affiliate). Got to meet him and talked with him and he said he was pretty confident he could find a spot somewhere in the NHL next year. His skating has improved quite a bit and he showed a touch of offense in the minors last year. Hopefully he returns :thumbup:

Edited by Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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This has been the case for this organization a lot over the last decade and I used to hate it. The fact is though that the skilled players on this team have gotten a lot tougher/more experienced and don't need as much "protection" as they did previously.

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This has been the case for this organization a lot over the last decade and I used to hate it. The fact is though that the skilled players on this team have gotten a lot tougher/more experienced and don't need as much "protection" as they did previously.

Classic examples from this past season include Edmonton and the Islanders. The Oilers have promising young guys like Hall, Eberle, Paajarvi. They've got plenty of big guys around them to handle anyone who's gonna run at them. Steve MacIntyre, Theo Peckham, Jim Vandermeer, etc. I'm sure Edmonton will keep MacIntyre around next year as well. The Islanders have promising young guys like Tavares, Grabner, Moulson, Parenteau. They surrounded them with guys to handle all the rough stuff. Trevor Gillies, Zenon Konopka, Matt Martin, Michael Haley, etc. If the Isles don't keep Gillies and/or Konopka around for next year, rest assured they will get guys similar to them to protect the youngsters. Yzerman had Probert, Kocur, Gallant, etc. Gretzky had Semenko. It's always been the case that promising young players are protected by "enforcers".

Edited by Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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I'm with RF19. I'm tired of Howard being the prime enforcer on this team.

We need someone who can handle a pass and make a decent pass or shoot and not back down from a fight.

I'm tired of running into these damn goon squads that keep running our players, and these other teams that play tough but ham it up and dive in the playoffs (then again, if that gets you to the Western Conference Final...)

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Regular fighting isn't really part of the Wings philosophy.

Given that, is Ericsson's relatively limited fighting just a lack of willingness for him, or perhaps instructions to keep it down? I swear I remember him being more of a hothead in GR than he ever has been here, and that's generally not a switch that's flipped on/off without good reason. Is it simply possible that the Wings org doesn't really want a lot of fighting?

Remember, for good or ill the PP is our enforcer.

the power play has to be really good consistently or we'll just be humiliated. i don't necessarily want an enforcer, but i can't honestly imagine how we would have faired against any of the two teams in the finals. it's ***-for-tat and i don't think our team is all that capable of that. (hey that rhymes).

did you see daniel sedin go bananas on ference the last game? sent them both off for 10 minutes. nice trade, eh? who on our team could annoy the piss out of somebody like that?

that's more of what i want...an annoyer, who can yap and hit!

and fight.

:satisfied:

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This is very important, because you know, hockeyfights.com basically determine who wins the Cup every year.

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This is very important, because you know, hockeyfights.com basically determine who wins the Cup every year.

Good job no one said it was important then, isn't it?

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I think in the Post lock out NHL and with the instigator penalty carrying an enforcer is not something the Wings need to do in order to be successful and though they keep voting us the worst enfocring team that shouldn't be taken as 'softest team'.

Honestly, I could care less what most of the knuckledraggers over there think. Most of them rag on Jack Edwards for being over the top when calling a fight but then gush like fountain of praise when the enforcer of their fancy has a decent bout and decry other comments that give their guy one less punch scored.

...but saying worst enforcing doesn't equate to softest over there is wrong. In their eyes it's exactly what that award means.

I believe that the wings need some grit, but, since the wings will never lead the NHL in fights no matter how gritty the Wings are the pro-enforcer community will always see the Wings as soft.

So, what kind of grit are you looking for? Or do we already have it?

Also, I don't think most of the pro-enforcers here on this site want the Wings to ice a team of goons, so lets not get silly about what people want. :cool:

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Classic examples from this past season include Edmonton and the Islanders. The Oilers have promising young guys like Hall, Eberle, Paajarvi. They've got plenty of big guys around them to handle anyone who's gonna run at them. Steve MacIntyre, Theo Peckham, Jim Vandermeer, etc. I'm sure Edmonton will keep MacIntyre around next year as well. The Islanders have promising young guys like Tavares, Grabner, Moulson, Parenteau. They surrounded them with guys to handle all the rough stuff. Trevor Gillies, Zenon Konopka, Matt Martin, Michael Haley, etc. If the Isles don't keep Gillies and/or Konopka around for next year, rest assured they will get guys similar to them to protect the youngsters. Yzerman had Probert, Kocur, Gallant, etc. Gretzky had Semenko. It's always been the case that promising young players are protected by "enforcers".

Ya, which is why I don't think we really need one. Datsyuk and Zetterberg have shown that they can handle the rough stuff since they have gotten older and if need be, we do have guys that are willing to drop the gloves.

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Classic examples from this past season include Edmonton and the Islanders. The Oilers have promising young guys like Hall, Eberle, Paajarvi. They've got plenty of big guys around them to handle anyone who's gonna run at them. Steve MacIntyre, Theo Peckham, Jim Vandermeer, etc. I'm sure Edmonton will keep MacIntyre around next year as well. The Islanders have promising young guys like Tavares, Grabner, Moulson, Parenteau. They surrounded them with guys to handle all the rough stuff. Trevor Gillies, Zenon Konopka, Matt Martin, Michael Haley, etc. If the Isles don't keep Gillies and/or Konopka around for next year, rest assured they will get guys similar to them to protect the youngsters. Yzerman had Probert, Kocur, Gallant, etc. Gretzky had Semenko. It's always been the case that promising young players are protected by "enforcers".

how did Edmonton and NY finish in the standings last year? refresh my memory...

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Those teams (EDM/NYI) are really young and honestly I think they're still figuring out how to play and win in the NHL. I honestly think that both teams just need some solid healthy veteran leadership. (Something neither team is willing to invest in.)

I remember an incident from this year where someone from Edmonton fought someone when Hall was ready to drop the gloves for himself. Sorta like when Datsyuk dropped them to fight Perry.

That's the kind of grit I like to see... but I'm certainly not against someone else doing that kind of work.

how did Edmonton and NY finish in the standings last year? refresh my memory...

How well did the Wings fair back in those early days of Stevie Y with Probert at his side?

Just sayin'.

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Those teams (EDM/NYI) are really young and honestly I think they're still figuring out how to play and win in the NHL. I honestly think that both teams just need some solid healthy veteran leadership. (Something neither team is willing to invest in.)

I remember an incident from this year where someone from Edmonton fought someone when Hall was ready to drop the gloves for himself. Sorta like when Datsyuk dropped them to fight Perry.

That's the kind of grit I like to see... but I'm certainly not against someone else doing that kind of work.

How well did the Wings fair back in those early days of Stevie Y with Probert at his side?

Just sayin'.

Piss poor, it wasn't until they broke away from that model, that they started winning...

When they started winning, was when they shed the dead weight of pure enforcers (NOT referring to Probert, although one of the best fighters of all time, he actually had more to his game) and added more skill to their team... especially in today's game (the "olden days" are poor comparisons, because it's a different game now) - wasting a spot on a one dimensional fighter is just that, a waste of a roster spot... I'd be all for McCormick, or a similar player that can give you a valuable 6+ minutes a night AND keep teams honest, but someone who is essentially a pylon and a defensive liability, with no scoring threat to their game is a waste of a roster spot.

Edited by stevkrause

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Piss poor, it wasn't until they broke away from that model, that they started winning...

When they started winning, was when they shed the dead weight of pure enforcers (NOT referring to Probert, although one of the best fighters of all time, he actually had more to his game) and added more skill to their team... especially in today's game (the "olden days" are poor comparisons, because it's a different game now) - wasting a spot on a one dimensional fighter is just that, a waste of a roster spot... I'd be all for McCormick, or a similar player that can give you a valuable 6+ minutes a night AND keep teams honest, but someone who is essentially a pylon and a defensive liability, with no scoring threat to their game is a waste of a roster spot.

Actually they did make it to the Conference Finals two years in a row, where both times they lost to one of the greatest dynasties in hockey, the Edmonton Oilers. I wouldn't call that piss poor.

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Actually they did make it to the Conference Finals two years in a row, where both times they lost to one of the greatest dynasties in hockey, the Edmonton Oilers. I wouldn't call that piss poor.

ok, maybe piss poor is an overstatement, but they couldn't get over the hump with that model and that was in a time when the league was more designed for it, it makes even less sense to build to that model now...

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So, what kind of grit are you looking for? Or do we already have it?

Dude, didn't you know?????

Some on here will have you believe the Wings are one of the grittiest teams in the league because they got a few guys who dig for loose pucks in the corners!!!!!!!

If thats not grit I don't know what is :rolleyes:

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Actually they did make it to the Conference Finals two years in a row, where both times they lost to one of the greatest dynasties in hockey, the Edmonton Oilers. I wouldn't call that piss poor.

The PIM totals for those two rosters is astounding. In 87-88: Probert with 398. Kocur with 263. Gallant with 242. :!:

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how did Edmonton and NY finish in the standings last year? refresh my memory...

They each finished first in their respective conferences. Unfortunately for them, a conspiracy at the highest levels of the NHL managed to alter the standings and deny them playoff spots.

Drake_Marcus, e_prime and Shaman like this

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The PIM totals for those two rosters is astounding. In 87-88: Probert with 398. Kocur with 263. Gallant with 242. :!:

I know! It was a pretty amazing season to watch.

I've got Probert's stats from '88 in my signature.

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I know! It was a pretty amazing season to watch.

I've got Probert's stats from '88 in my signature.

and those very stats in your sig show why, although an amazing fighter and an enforcer in the way he handled things and stood up for teammates, Probert was by no means a one dimensional goon... in his prime, he was the toughest, true power forward in the game - not just a useless set of cement hands...

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