Scoring isn't really the Issue

[kipwinger 8,533]

There's this Finnish guy, I hear he has great skating and really good defense for a 2nd line C. Puts up a solid PPG. All of that and I hear he can be had for $3m/yr.

Wish I could remember his name...

Wish I could give this more than one +. I can't understand why everybody thinks he's not able to be the second line center.

[unsaddleddonald 357]

You're forgetting Franzen.

i mentioned that i don't know what Franzen is yet. to me, an elite player scores more than 2 goals in the last 27 games of the regular season.

[Rice 42]

i mentioned that i don't know what Franzen is yet. to me, an elite player scores more than 2 goals in the last 27 games of the regular season.

Do elite players score 35 goals in their last 53 playoff games?

Dave Bolland and Alex Burrows are "elite" players but Franzen isn't?

There's this Finnish guy, I hear he has great skating and really good defense for a 2nd line C. Puts up a solid PPG. All of that and I hear he can be had for $3m/yr.

Wish I could remember his name...

In what world has Fillppula put up a solid PPG? He's actually scored less than .5 PPG over his whole career.

[Datsyerberger 279]

In what world has Fillppula put up a solid PPG? He's actually scored less than .5 PPG over his whole career.

He was .5 PPG 3 years ago and has been over .5 PPG since. Because, you know... players develop.

But actually, you know what? You're right. Datsyuk isn't a PPG center like most people believe either; he's under a PPG in his career because he had lower scoring youngster years. I like your way of doing things better... you know, the way in which you analyze a player's current level of play by including stats from 4+ years ago into the grand scheme of things.

Edited June 15, 2011 by Datsyerberger

[pucktividi 472]

And in both of the years we lost to the Sharks we had more goals per game. Suppose the reason we can have more goals per game and lose two years in a row is because they play better team defense and shut us down when it matters? Suppose they scored more because they had the puck more and cycled for larger peroids of time? Suppose they had the puck more because their defense forced more turnovers?

I get your point,but did the Wings advance with one more hot forward in that series...with(healthy)Franzen or Hossa or even friggin Sammy?You know my answer.

After all the best way not to be shut down is to play better offense

[Rice 42]

.

But actually, you know what? You're right. Datsyuk isn't a PPG center like most people believe either; he's under a PPG in his career because he had lower scoring youngster years. I like your way of doing things better... you know, the way in which you analyze a player's current level of play by including stats from 4+ years ago into the grand scheme of things.

My apologies. Filppula's best season PPG-wise was 35 points in 55 games. That's .63 PPG, good for 52 points in a whole season.

I love Filppula, but you're kidding yourself if you think he's an 80+ point player -- because, you know, that's what a "solid PPG player " is.

Filppula's career high in points is 40 on the most stacked team since the lockout.

In Filppula's first five seasons, he put up 167 points in 357 games.

In Datsyuk's first five seasons, he put up 328 points in 363 games.

Yes, neither were PPG but Datsyuk was a hell of a lot closer.

[Buppy 1,720]

And in both of the years we lost to the Sharks we had more goals per game. Suppose the reason we can have more goals per game and lose two years in a row is because they play better team defense and shut us down when it matters? Suppose they scored more because they had the puck more and cycled for larger peroids of time? Suppose they had the puck more because their defense forced more turnovers?

Also, I don't want anyone to think that we should ONLY spend on defenseman, or that the defense is the ONLY problem. I'm saying whatever forward we sign needs to be defensively responsible. In a perfect world, like D and Z. The original post was in response to some of the names I'm seeing thrown around on this forumn. Zherdev? Connolly? You're talking about guys that are double digit minus in their careers. Scoring is nice, but a team full of Brett Hull's wouldn't be too hard to beat would it?

I think you're tilting at windmills here. No one is suggesting we replace all our solid defensive forwards with offense-only forwards. We could definitely use another scoring forward, just to mesh with the personel we already have. You can't win with a team full of Helms, Eaves, and Millers either. We have enough solid defensive forwards that we can afford a few who aren't very good.

Also, one person suggested Connolly. Pretty much everyone who responded was against it, because he doesn't add enough for what he costs. Zherdev though could be worthwhile gamble, if he were to come as cheaply as suggested by those in favor of him. If he produces, great. If not, we'd still have a solid 13/14 forward to replace him. Most suggesting him figure he'd replace Hudler, so we aren't really losing anything defensively anyway. I don't think anyone wants Zherdev at $3M+ or anything that would cost us improvements elsewhere.

Finally, our defense has been good over the last decade and a half primarily because we have a great system anchored by one of the best defenseman of all time. Our struggles the past few years have not really been a matter personel. More because of regular season laziness, coaching, at times suspect goaltending, falling away from our system, and more teams now employing that system against us. In '07-08 we had the league's top GAA. We brought back essentially the same team and added a top-tier two-way forward but still our defense plummeted.

Our new assistant coaches will be a big part of how our D performs. As will Howie and whoever our backup ends up being, and of course whatever new defensemen we get. I'd like to see some better shot-blockers on defense, and some guys that can be better at clearing the crease. Assuming we bring back Eaves and/or Miller, our forward defense is fine. I'd even expect Helm and Abby to be better, and Mursak gives another lightning-fast forechecker option. We have the players to put two very good defensive forwards on each line. We could afford to gamble on someone like Zherdev if he came cheap.

[unsaddleddonald 357]

Finally, our defense has been good over the last decade and a half primarily because we have a great system anchored by one of the best defenseman of all time. Our struggles the past few years have not really been a matter personel. More because of regular season laziness, coaching, at times suspect goaltending, falling away from our system, and more teams now employing that system against us. In '07-08 we had the league's top GAA. We brought back essentially the same team and added a top-tier two-way forward but still our defense plummeted.

In that offseason, we lost Mclellan and got Mcrimmon. I blame that for why our defense has sucked since 08

[Lonewuhf 47]

My apologies. Filppula's best season PPG-wise was 35 points in 55 games. That's .63 PPG, good for 52 points in a whole season.

I love Filppula, but you're kidding yourself if you think he's an 80+ point player -- because, you know, that's what a "solid PPG player " is.

Filppula's career high in points is 40 on the most stacked team since the lockout.

In Filppula's first five seasons, he put up 167 points in 357 games.

In Datsyuk's first five seasons, he put up 328 points in 363 games.

Yes, neither were PPG but Datsyuk was a hell of a lot closer.

No one said he was an 80+ point player, and I think only 1 person on this entire board thinks that. Fil gets paid 3 million after 5 seasons, Dats gets paid twice as much. Dats has about twice as many points as Fil... The numbers seem to add up pretty well to me. Fil's production is just about right on for a 2nd line center with above average defensive play.

This is also not looking at the linemates both have played with, as Dat's linesmates have been substantially better.

Edited June 16, 2011 by Lonewuhf

[dragonballgtz 273]

We are currently ranked 4th in "Goals per Game" in the playoffs. Ahead of the team that beat us, ahead of the two teams in the finals, and one behind Tampa Bay, who advanced to the Conference finals. Suppose the reason we had more goals per game and couldn't score timely goals against the Sharks was because they played better TEAM DEFENSE, and shut us down? All five guys on the ice have to play D everybody, not just the two defenseman. That's why we "back check" , "forecheck", pick up our in zone "defensive assignments", etc.

Because our depth is way too inconsistent. They show up for a few games then disappear for a long stretch. At times it didn't even look like Flip, Bert, Homer, Cleary were even trying. If it wasn't for Datsyuk, Lidstrom, and Z the SJ series would have looked worse.

[Krayzie_Bone 58]

I agree the Wings need better D. That is the problem for me letting Howard just get bombarded alot of time again san jose. When your facing a guy as hot as Niemi was for a bit there your going to have trouble scoring. Im not worried about scoring with Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Franzen.

Edited June 16, 2011 by Krayzie_Bone