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2011 NHL Draft: Round 1 Discussion

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Guest CaliWingsNut   
Guest CaliWingsNut

Considering that Pavel keeps pictures of Jesus, Mary and St Nicholas (the Russian saint, not the Captain of the Wings) in his locker, I think a religious person would be in good company.

I honestly have to question some people's perception of others and how quickly we jump to conclusions. It's insulting to the majority of Christians I know, including myself.

Honestly, I can't remember his exact words, but it was something to the effect of living his own life by what he feels is right and not what others think.

So he doesn't cave in to negative pressure. Not a bad thing for a kid.

That or he's narrow sighted and not open to other perspectives. Which could be a very bad thing.

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Looks like it was a good deal for the Wings to get 2 extra picks plus their own in the 2nd giving the team 3 picks in that round. It makes sense that Detroit would do something like that. They are really good and drafting quality players late in the Draft and as Jim Nill said they felt the players they wanted would still be there when it came time for them to pick so I defintley agree with the trade.

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Right, because everyone thought Rafalski was a "cancer in the locker room", too. Those stupid religious hockey players!!!

The way I look at it is that there's nothing wrong with being very religious. But there's a key distinction between the two. Rafalski made it to his retirement with nobody having a clue about it - he kept it as part of his personal life. That's good.

In contrast, this guy couldn't even make it through his draft without not only making it very apparent, but using it to judge people. (Admittedly I didn't see this, I'm going off of what people here are saying.)

They're two very different cases.

Edited by Zetts

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The way I look at it is that there's nothing wrong with being very religious. But there's a key distinction between the two. Rafalski made it to his retirement with nobody having a clue about it - he kept it as part of his personal life. That's good.

In contrast, this guy couldn't even make it through his draft without not only making it very apparent, but using it to judge people. (Admittedly I didn't see this, I'm going off of what people here are saying.)

They're two very different cases.

Disagree on both counts. Those who know Raffy were quite aware. He and other Wings have often spoken of their beliefs (see also Datsyuk and Howard). We may not notice or hear of it, but it comes up in interviews and such. I remember Draper commenting on it once that it made no difference in the locker room what their beliefs were. They all had their own.

Rocco is a young underage kid headed to UND (which is why I had kind of been looking at him) and he isn't going to drink or get in trouble in college. Locker room cancer? I doubt it. Not sure how abstaining from alcohol when one is underage makes one judgmental. I'd rather have a kid in my system that I didn't have to worry about doing that sort of things. Too many kids around here have screwed up their sports scholarships over drinking or other illegal activities.

So he said it would be wrong for him to drink. Yeah. He's underage. It's illegal.

By the time he gets to the NHL, he'll be of age. Then it will be his decision whether or not to drink or anything else. Knowing the ND culture as I do, he will have been exposed to a LOT of drinking. He will either find people with his own likes and dislikes to spend his time with and avoid the parties, or he will become everyone's favourite Designated Driver. I went to college with both types of non-drinkers.

Being religious or non-religious doesn't make a person a good or bad player, nor does it make them a good or bad teammate. Once a person is a teammate with someone, they know that person well enough that they know their beliefs. They may not be the same, but they know what they are. And from that point on, it isn't whether a person is religious or not; it's how they coexist with others.

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...

To clarify, I'm not the one who said that he was a locker room cancer and I also did not say that it made him a bad team mate.

I appreciate that some of the Wings are religious, but none of them express it on even close to the same level as this guy. Not that it necessarily makes him good or bad, but we should be clear that he is MUCH more open about his religion than most.

"I think [Twitter and Facebook] are a way to spread the Gospel."

Around the draft floor, and off the record, there were those who said teams were "scared off" by Grimaldi's candid religious discourse and that, combined with being an undersized forward, they facilitated his move out of the first round. With his use of social media, it was on display for any team considering him.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/Panthers-pick-Rocco-Grimaldi-8217-s-leap-of-fai?urn=nhl-wp8027

Reading some articles, he does seem like a great role model - I actually like him more and more. However, frequently discussing your religion doesn't necessarily make people too happy. If you ask what someone had for breakfast, and their response references their religious beliefs, it gets old. I don't actually know if that's the case with him - some signs do seem to point to it, but obviously I don't know him as a person. That's why I didn't say that he's a locker room cancer, etc, etc.

I mean, half of the discussions of him in the draft reference his religion due to his frequent comments about it himself.

Grimaldi said that some clubs asked if his dedication to his faith would affect his ability to fit in with other players.

“They really asked me if it was going to be a hindrance for me or get in the way of me and my teammates because some of my teammates might make mistakes, or not mistakes, but things I don’t really agree with and go out. I’m not a drinker, and I don’t go out and do that stuff, so they felt maybe I am going to judge them for that, which, you know, I would never judge someone for the things they do,” he said. “We are brothers when we are on the ice and off the ice as well.”

http://losalamitos.patch.com/articles/rossmoor-nhl-hopeful-discusses-roles-of-his-height-and-religion-in-todays-draft

That quote to me shows that his religion likely won't influence his play. But clearly it's not just a few posters here looking at this...scouts have concerns about it too.

Edited by Zetts

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The way I look at it is that there's nothing wrong with being very religious. But there's a key distinction between the two. Rafalski made it to his retirement with nobody having a clue about it - he kept it as part of his personal life. That's good.

In contrast, this guy couldn't even make it through his draft without not only making it very apparent, but using it to judge people. (Admittedly I didn't see this, I'm going off of what people here are saying.)

They're two very different cases.

This is full of lies.

Anyone who has ever met Rafalski knew he was religious. He wore a cross around his neck everywhere he went. Not to mention, in any interview they had with him in regards to breasts cancer awareness or the natural disasters he always spoke of God coming to their rescue.

And the kid didn't use the draft to profess his love for jesus, he was asked a question about his tie. Tim Tebow had a different bible verse on his eye black every game and look how he turned out. People need to stop being so discriminatory. It seems it's ok with people that a person is ***, but if a person is religious, it's a bad thing. If they are good people and good athletes, who gives a flying f***?

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This is full of lies.

Anyone who has ever met Rafalski knew he was religious. He wore a cross around his neck everywhere he went. Not to mention, in any interview they had with him in regards to breasts cancer awareness or the natural disasters he always spoke of God coming to their rescue.

And the kid didn't use the draft to profess his love for jesus, he was asked a question about his tie. Tim Tebow had a different bible verse on his eye black every game and look how he turned out. People need to stop being so discriminatory. It seems it's ok with people that a person is ***, but if a person is religious, it's a bad thing. If they are good people and good athletes, who gives a flying f***?

Before becoming so hostile to someone who does in fact like the player, perhaps you should a) read my post just above yours and b) read the articles about him. He referenced his religion much, MUCH more than just in a circumstance about his tie.

And regardless of any of our personal feelings, there are some reports that scouts are looking at it. You can argue whether that is fair or not, but I feel that nothing that I've personally said has been either discriminatory or judgmental of him. If you feel otherwise, please let me know which comment about him did anything other than present BOTH sides of the issue for consideration.

Edit: Also, I didn't mean to say that nobody knew Rafalski was religious, just that he didn't make it the center of conversations. Wearing a cross is irrelevant. I haven't heard anyone judge Grimaldi for being Christian. It's for his extensive expression of it, that SOME people are commenting.

Edited by Zetts

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And the kid didn't use the draft to profess his love for jesus, he was asked a question about his tie. Tim Tebow had a different bible verse on his eye black every game and look how he turned out. People need to stop being so discriminatory. It seems it's ok with people that a person is ***, but if a person is religious, it's a bad thing. If they are good people and good athletes, who gives a flying f***?

Your comparaison is not good. A good comparaison would be an homosexual athlete that tweets everytime about his sexual preferences.. Same with an heterosexual actually. I would personally not enjoy that one of the team member tweets that he loves to f##k girls.... Look what happened to Carter in Philly, part of it because he was known to go out and have fun with pornstars...

It should be a clear distinction between private and public life, which i know does not exists anymore in the US. I think it's sad.

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Your comparaison is not good. A good comparaison would be an homosexual athlete that tweets everytime about his sexual preferences.. Same with an heterosexual actually. I would personally not enjoy that one of the team member tweets that he loves to f##k girls.... Look what happened to Carter in Philly, part of it because he was known to go out and have fun with pornstars...

It should be a clear distinction between private and public life, which i know does not exists anymore in the US. I think it's sad.

My comparison is sound and valid. You took it out of context and added labels to it.

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Guest CaliWingsNut   
Guest CaliWingsNut

My comparison is sound and valid. You took it out of context and added labels to it.

I disagree. I normally have no issue with others having a different religion or sexual preference, however when one uses a public conference to put their religion on a pedestal it's a different thing. He made it sound as though his decision to retire was based on the impact playing has on his relationship with god, not the fact that his knees are a mess, his age, or any other realistic reason. I'm unsure the last time I heard a sports figure quitting because of his religion (granted I don't watch much soccer).

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My comparison is sound and valid. You took it out of context and added labels to it.

How is this comparaison with a kid who talks as we all know a lot about his religion and the situation of an homosexual valid? As i said a correct comparaison would be an heterosexual or homosexual who talks (tweets for example) about his preferences..

The big thing is obviously not that this kid is religious (probably as the big part of the athletes to a certain extent) but that he talks too much about it: no more private sphere, everything is a big show..

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How is this comparaison with a kid who talks as we all know a lot about his religion and the situation of an homosexual valid? As i said a correct comparaison would be an heterosexual or homosexual who talks (tweets for example) about his preferences..

The big thing is obviously not that this kid is religious (probably as the big part of the athletes to a certain extent) but that he talks too much about it: no more private sphere, everything is a big show..

A correct comparision in your mind.

I compared the life preferences of being a homosexual and being religious. I didn't make any statments about if each said person vocalized their preferences. I just said, that it shouldn't matter if a person is *** or religious as long as they are good people and in this case, good athletes. Then the labels of "well, so and so did this, so it'd be correct if *** man did this". No, that's not what I said. You can't turn something someone says and warp it to what you want to say, that's not how it works. I don't care if a person is Kandorian or if a person has three legs, as long as they are good people and in this case a good athlete, it shouldn't matter. Do those extremes help you understand better?

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A correct comparision in your mind.

I compared the life preferences of being a homosexual and being religious. I didn't make any statments about if each said person vocalized their preferences. I just said, that it shouldn't matter if a person is *** or religious as long as they are good people and in this case, good athletes. Then the labels of "well, so and so did this, so it'd be correct if *** man did this". No, that's not what I said. You can't turn something someone says and warp it to what you want to say, that's not how it works. I don't care if a person is Kandorian or if a person has three legs, as long as they are good people and in this case a good athlete, it shouldn't matter. Do those extremes help you understand better?

1. that is a good comparison

2. your original statement is perfectly valid. it does not matter if someone is religious or ***, and im sure everyone here agrees with you on that. ppl are simply trying to point out how boisterous he is about it. so if you wanna discuss that with everyone go ahead, no one really cares what religion it is or if hes *** or whatever.

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Back to Zetts- thanks for clarifying your opinion and thanks for expanding. It added a lot positively to the discussion on both sides of the issue, and I see what you're saying now.

How many kids that were drafted were not interviewed? A lot. I wonder what some of them would have to say. It would be interesting if every kid who was at the draft had interviews. I'm not talking about religion here. I'm just saying, ask the kid "what makes you who you are?" A lot of these kids have trouble expressing themselves in front of the camera at this point in their lives.

Regardless, they go through interviews of a less formal nature throughout their playing careers. They will get used to it over time. Some people are better under at verbalizing their thoughts. Some are better speaking privately than publicly.

I wonder how much of scouting and drafting goes to the personality of the player rather than just looking at the on-ice abilities. That in itself could be a whole 'nother and interesting thread.

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This is full of lies.

Anyone who has ever met Rafalski knew he was religious. He wore a cross around his neck everywhere he went. Not to mention, in any interview they had with him in regards to breasts cancer awareness or the natural disasters he always spoke of God coming to their rescue.

And the kid didn't use the draft to profess his love for jesus, he was asked a question about his tie. Tim Tebow had a different bible verse on his eye black every game and look how he turned out. People need to stop being so discriminatory. It seems it's ok with people that a person is ***, but if a person is religious, it's a bad thing. If they are good people and good athletes, who gives a flying f***?

Being *** is OK and being Religious is OK, just don't preach to me and I won't say f*** to you.....

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Being *** is OK and being Religious is OK, just don't preach to me and I won't say f*** to you.....

Agreed. Where did this kid try to convert you? If saying, "I love my faith, but I won't judge you for actions that I perceive as wrong, we are brothers on and off the ice", is preaching, then you'd hate Rafalski and Datsyuk and Doan and Sakic and Toews and Cam Ward and all the Staals and etc. I dare you to tell Stu Grimson to f*** off for being religious, I'm sure he's been interviewed a few times about his faith during his playing days and said things along the same lines as this kid.

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A correct comparision in your mind.

I compared the life preferences of being a homosexual and being religious. I didn't make any statments about if each said person vocalized their preferences. I just said, that it shouldn't matter if a person is *** or religious as long as they are good people and in this case, good athletes. Then the labels of "well, so and so did this, so it'd be correct if *** man did this". No, that's not what I said. You can't turn something someone says and warp it to what you want to say, that's not how it works. I don't care if a person is Kandorian or if a person has three legs, as long as they are good people and in this case a good athlete, it shouldn't matter. Do those extremes help you understand better?

Being religious is a choice and the religion you choose is a preference however, contrary to your belief, Homosexuality is neither a choice or a preference. Every *** person I know, given a choice would choose to be straight and love someone of the opposite sex so they wouldn't have to put up with taunts and beatings from uneducated redneck assholes.

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I disagree. I normally have no issue with others having a different religion or sexual preference, however when one uses a public conference to put their religion on a pedestal it's a different thing. He made it sound as though his decision to retire was based on the impact playing has on his relationship with god, not the fact that his knees are a mess, his age, or any other realistic reason. I'm unsure the last time I heard a sports figure quitting because of his religion (granted I don't watch much soccer).

Yeah, he never said that.

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Guest CaliWingsNut   
Guest CaliWingsNut

Yeah, he never said that.

He starts off by explaining that after a long discussion with his wife about his main priorities (listed as god, family, others in that order) he can no longer play.

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Being religious is a choice and the religion you choose is a preference however, contrary to your belief, Homosexuality is neither a choice or a preference. Every *** person I know, given a choice would choose to be straight and love someone of the opposite sex so they wouldn't have to put up with taunts and beatings from uneducated redneck assholes.

Contrary to your belief, roughly 90% of the gays I know are bisexual and choose to be with either female or male at a time. You do know most gays are bisexual right? I know they don't have the choice of not liking the same sex, but they are able to make the choice of who they date most of the time. Plus, look up the term "ex-***", you'll be surprised to know that many gays do indeed convert themselves away from homosexuality. And just for the record, because I know I'm coming off as a homo hater, I'm actually pro-*** marriage and my two best friend are *** and I actually know what the hell I am talking about lol.

You completely missed the point anyways and I'd argue your faith is not a choice. Many Christians and Buddhists claim that God came to them one day and that was the day they began professing their love and devotion to them, so contrary to your beliefs, religion is not a choice. See how easy it is?

But back on topic. I'm excited with 6 of our 9 picks and I'm sincerely glad Holland is our GM and not some of you idiots that cursed him for trading the first round draft pick at the time he traded it.

He starts off by explaining that after a long discussion with his wife about his main priorities (listed as god, family, others in that order) he can no longer play.

Well yah, all Christians will say God is their number one priority. If his wife was drowning, he wouldn't ask for a sign from God to see if he should save her, he'd just do it.

My fraternity has the motto it's (God, Family, School, Sigma Chi) in that order but you better beielve your ass I work hardest on school work. Just because something is your number one priority, it doesn't mean it's the reason you do certain things.

E.g. I bet his faith is the reason he wasn't a cheap player or didn't get in trouble off the ice, but I bet his faith had nothing to do with where he played hockey or the salary he asked for when he played. Just like I'm willing to bet the decision he retired was due to his health and not his faith seeing how he only had ONE knee.

Edited by Konnan511

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Back to Zetts- thanks for clarifying your opinion and thanks for expanding. It added a lot positively to the discussion on both sides of the issue, and I see what you're saying now.

Thanks - I probably should have expanded more in my initial post, but at least I was able to convey my thinking. I think for the most part, picks in the first 2 rounds are interviewed, but from there on out I imagine that many players aren't. I certainly do empathize - these kids are under a lot of pressure and I'm sure that at their age few can fully articulate what they want to say. Grimaldi got much more attention then I think he was expecting due to his size. I do agree - I'm curious as to how important personality is when evaluating a prospect. Obviously we've seen that something like poor work ethic is not looked at favourably...but that's a bit different as it has a direct impact on the on-ice success.

Contrary to your belief, roughly 90% of the gays I know are bisexual and choose to be with either female or male at a time. You do know most gays are bisexual right? I know they don't have the choice of not liking the same sex, but they are able to make the choice of who they date most of the time. Plus, look up the term "ex-***", you'll be surprised to know that many gays do indeed convert themselves away from homosexuality. And just for the record, because I know I'm coming off as a homo hater, I'm actually pro-*** marriage and my two best friend are *** and I actually know what the hell I am talking about lol.

Painfully false claims. I won't say any more or this thread will be derailed. PM me, or here has been a thread where pretty much any time a homosexuality question came up it could be discussed.

Edited by Zetts

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