Jimmy Howard Debate Thread

[mmamolo 287]

These Howard bashing posts are ridiculous. By no means is he perfect but wow the blind hatred is astonishing. If you would rather have Varlamov, Bobrovsky etc. instead of Howard then so be it. To lump Howard into a category with those, while ranking a goaltending like Giguere who is a shell of his former self is mind numbing.

[eva unit zero 271]

Let's not forget, if it wasn't for Howard, we don't make the playoffs in 2010. He was AMAZING during that stretch when the team was injured and not playing all that great. 40-50 saves for him was the norm. He was inconsistent this past regular season, but I felt was very good in the postseason. IMO, Howard's playoffs in 2011 was significantly better than in 2010. Those first two games in SJ would have been blowout losses with a lesser goalie.

Howard faced 40+ shots five times in 09-10 and four times in 10-11. He made 40+ saves four times in 09-10 and twice in 10-11. He faced 50+, and made 50+ saves, once in 09-10 and not at all in 10-11.

He faced almost exactly 30 shots per game, on average, each of the past two seasons.

Fuuuuuuuck! Well, perhaps, statistics say otherwise... Yes, I mentioned it, that's my mistake. Can you name me a person who would feel safe going with Howard to Game 7 of SCF? He is going to let pucks in. Period. Red Wings somehow need to deal with it scoring, scoring and scoring. I remember (I bet you too) those times when our goalie didn't let pucks in in a game just because he played good not because a team in from of him played excellent. These were 97 and 2001-2002 season. Since then we have Howard-like goalies.

PS Notice, I'm not going to ask you how to "watch hell-lot-more than 70 games". Simply because it is no more than 106 every season for SC finalist.

1997 and 2002 we received good goaltending performances from Vernon and Hasek. But neither stacked up to Osgood in 2008 or 2009. And the way you slice up the years makes it seem awfully anti-Osgood.

Howard is a good tender. He has mixed reviews in his two playoff performances so far, but what is encouraging is that while the first was bad, the second was stellar. He may never be a clutch goalie, especially given his age. But he is a good goaltender and more than worth his price. If you take all goaltenders who are currently in the league Howard is one of the better ones, but I don't know that he will ever be an "elite" goalie given his age and skill level. Osgood at his age was a Vezina contender and Cup winner. Hasek was a Vezina winner at his age. Belfour, Joseph, Roy, Brodeur were all elite goalies. Kirk McLean, John Vanbiesbrouck, Mike Richter, and Tom Barrasso as well. Even Tim Cheveldae and Bob Essensa were All-Stars and Vezina contenders by that point. Howard has done well so far, but he has by no means placed himself in the upper echeleon, nor shown that he will be a truly elite goalie. Granted, Tim Thomas followed the career path of Joey MacDonald for most of his career, and then suddenly won two Vezinas in three years. But most top goalies put themselves there when given the opportunity to do so, and prove that they belong there. Every single goaltender, except for Cheveldae, I mentioned was either a Vezina nominee, a Cup winner, or both during his first five seasons of play in the NHL. Many also won the Vezina during that time. Cheveldae was mentioned because he only missed being nominated by a small margin, and set multiple Red Wing records while doing so. Admittedly, Howard played fewer than five games in each of his first three seasons, so counting those would be questionable. But he is unlikely to be nominated in the next couple of seasons. Will the Red Wings win the Cup in the next three seasons? Howard is certainly good enough that a solid team in front of him can bring that home. And he has one of the best teams in the league. So there's a pretty good chance of that happening. I don't see Howard as an elite goalie, but he still has plenty of time to change that perception. Unfortunately, most people don't change their perceptions of a player after the first two or three seasons (Osgood letting in bad goals, Selanne being poor defensively, Kariya as a floater) so even if he does manage to reach that level later on, he'll have to do it in dramatic "Timmy Tom" fashion to get noticed. Or to go from simply good at something to being the best (such as Yzerman's defensive game) so that people may not think he's the best, but they won't be able to say he's not among the best.

Edited July 22, 2011 by eva unit zero

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

^ A few lines in, I lost sight of which line I was supposed to read next.

[Guest Crymson]

^ A few lines in, I lost sight of which line I was supposed to read next.

Agreed. That font doesn't work very well.

[Rivalred 630]

Few Vids of Howard from last season

Edited July 22, 2011 by Rivalred

[Rivalred 630]

Howard vs Rinne in shootout last year

Howard in a shootout in his first full NHL season

Edited July 22, 2011 by Rivalred

[Rivalred 630]

^ A few lines in, I lost sight of which line I was supposed to read next.

Agreed. That font doesn't work very well.

Agreed, come up for some air, or create a new paragraph... It is like reading a damn ER/ME Report...

[mybeardismycopilot 0]

hes solid. he gets better every year and will continue to do so. tim thomas, he came out of nowhere in his early 30s, as mentioned earlier howard isnt broduer in his prime but i feel that he will continue to work hard and refine his skills and will come out with a similar career to the likes of someone like thomas, never a gem but hard work and a good team sticking to the game plan will bring many exciting and long stretches into the playoffs and a cup or two.

about the soft goal debate, i could be totally wrong but i think that if the nay sayers watched another teams goalie as much as they do redwings games they would see just as many slippery goals that should have never gone in.

the trio we have going with howard conklin and macdonald is good im confident that they can come up big for us this year.

[gcom007 1,465]

I have no worries about goaltending until Howard flounders in the playoffs again like in his rookie year. I can overlook the regular season of a goalie who can turn it on in the playoffs, and he most certainly turned it on in the playoffs. Until next April, I'm 100% confident in Howard.

[Dimaline312000 51]

Jimmy is a good young goalie. He has a ton of potential for the coming seasons. As for his past two seasons up in Detroit I've been very pleased with his performance. He's made some great saves and has really stold some games for us which is what goalies need to be able to do sometimes. Sure he's let in a few iffy goals but so has Patrick Roy or Terry Sawchuck <--(Not that I actually know from seeing him) all goalies give up questionable goals at some point. What's really good is that he hasn't let the bad goals rattle him or any goals by that matter. He stays strong and true to his form he has confidence in himself and his team has confidence in him. Wings took a long time in developing him so I have to believe they know what they are doing by keeping him on the roster as our Number 1 goalie instead of letting him go like Detroit has done with so many good young players in the past. Sure there's room for improvement but that's true for everyone on every team. He has the age on his side and Jim Bedard is a great goalie coach, I always watch Bedard coaching the goalies at Training Camp and he is a great goalie coach and Jimmy will just continue to get better under him. Ozzie's still going to be around so he'll be able to help Jimmy as well. Give the guy some time he will get better but he's doing just fine right now. We always seem to have people on here that have always questioned our Goaltending but it's always been fairly solid and Detroit's goaltending as of the past 11 or 12 years has helped bring this team 4 Stanley Cups so I'm fully confident in it as I am with Jimmy. He should only get better from here on out and I can't wait to see when HE helps lead us to another Stanley Cup Championship.