• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
under_par_00

Jeff Carter

Rate this topic

76 posts in this topic

Ok, I am going to try and simplify it for you as to not go over your head: Carter wants out of Columbus. It's also no secret that Columbus wants to trade him. The second a player wants out of an organization and everyone knows it, that gives other teams leverage in negotiations. Sure, Columbus does have to deal him, but they WANT TOO! They will not be asking for the kitchen sink like Anaheim would be for Ryan.

As to "boning other guys wives", who knows if that is true or not. But you had better get off your moral high horse, because Detroit used to have player named Brendan Shanahan, ever heard of him? Ask Craig Janney about him.

But hey, if Detroit could get another right-handed sniper, fine. But it won't come as cheaply(in terms of what we will have to give up). But since everyone KNOWS that Carter will destroy the locker-room, which does not say much for Detroit's locker-room that ONE player could "tear it apart", I will say that I KNOW that he will behave and mature here. How do I know that he will? I don't, just like you don't know he won't. Does evidence favor your argument? Maybe. But in Philly, he was in a pretty divisive locker-room to begin with, with some pretty big egos and personalities ... and they still went to the finals! Imagine that? Detroit has a pretty ego-free locker-room, except for maybe Franzen, so I see nothing standing in the way of his maturing.

Detroit has no right-handed shooters in their top six forwards. If you think that that doesn't remove a dimension from their game, you are sorely mistaken. It limits shooting options. How many times have you heard Mickey Redmond say: "If he would of been a right-handed shot, he would of buried it". The one thing Detroit's top-six forwards have going for them, and why they haven't been completely limited, is that Datsyuk, Bertuzzi, Zetterberg, and Hudler all have pretty good back-hands. But you put a potent right-handed shot on either one of those top two lines, preferably both, you will see the scoring chances go up. I guarantee it.

Wow.

For future discussions, just because I have a clitoris, that does not make me a moron or a prude...in fact, pure mathamatics here stand to reason that CARTER MAKES MORE MONEY..(Ryan makes less)you seem to be stuck on this. Perhaps there are summer classes for math you can attend in your area.

Moral high horse? Again...this is NOT about a player, an incident ( Shanny/ Carter, Other Wife Boning), its about a TEAM. We lead the league right now with this solid, respectable group of men that make up the Wings. I dont give a shard what they "really do" ... If Cleary drinks too much or if White is secretly a leather daddy. I DONT CARE. Its working...and they have chemistry and nobody in that room makes a scene. Carter makes a scene. Carter is known for lazy play and a bad attitude, proned to injury, excessive partying AND he has a contract more bloated than Ken Hitchcocks feet. NO THANKS.

Lastly, you state that you KNOW that Carter will behave here and mature ( well, then you say you don't know, just like I don't) which again, makes no sense and has no merit as an arguement BUT we have no idea how it would or would not work...but what I am saying (pushing the echo button here) is the RISKS outweigh the rewards by a steep margin because of all the X factors ( His CONTACT, his credibility, his character) Of Course we score more goals...of score offense goes up. You are correct...but again, risk verses reward. I think Carter is a sketchy prospect (because if he wasn't, Burke would have signed him by now) I hope the guy finds his feng shui, I hope he matures and I hope he finds a good team. I ONLY hope its not with DETROIT!!!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Carter was only rumored to have slept with Hartnell's wife where Shanny did indeed do that & ended up marrying Janney's wife 3 years after the incident. So I guess that means by your line of thinking, once Carter marries the former Lisa Hartnell & confirms that their screwing around is what broke up her marriage, the Wings organization (and by extension you) would be able to welcome him with open arms?

Oh and for Carter being a prima donna & making it known he wants out of Columbus being something that Shanny would never do here's just a little bit of an article from back in October of 1996 about a little transaction between the Wings & Whalers...

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/10/10/sports/whalers-finally-trade-shanahan-for-coffey.html

Maybe take the Wings Rose-Red colored glasses off & see the situations aren't all that different after all.

All very good points. Perhaps with twitter and youtube, Carter's bad ass ways are much more public. I remember that summer that Shanahan wanted out...but we werent saturated with it 24-7. I still contend that Carter hasnt shown me anything i like thus far but interesting that they are both 27...still young as a person and a player. Anyway, I still dont want Carter on this team for a hundred different reasons...Shanny, id take back in a heartbeat!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow.

For future discussions, just because I have a clitoris, that does not make me a moron or a prude...in fact, pure mathamatics here stand to reason that CARTER MAKES MORE MONEY..(Ryan makes less)you seem to be stuck on this. Perhaps there are summer classes for math you can attend in your area.

Moral high horse? Again...this is NOT about a player, an incident ( Shanny/ Carter, Other Wife Boning), its about a TEAM. We lead the league right now with this solid, respectable group of men that make up the Wings. I dont give a shard what they "really do" ... If Cleary drinks too much or if White is secretly a leather daddy. I DONT CARE. Its working...and they have chemistry and nobody in that room makes a scene. Carter makes a scene. Carter is known for lazy play and a bad attitude, proned to injury, excessive partying AND he has a contract more bloated than Ken Hitchcocks feet. NO THANKS.

Lastly, you state that you KNOW that Carter will behave here and mature ( well, then you say you don't know, just like I don't) which again, makes no sense and has no merit as an arguement BUT we have no idea how it would or would not work...but what I am saying (pushing the echo button here) is the RISKS outweigh the rewards by a steep margin because of all the X factors ( His CONTACT, his credibility, his character) Of Course we score more goals...of score offense goes up. You are correct...but again, risk verses reward. I think Carter is a sketchy prospect (because if he wasn't, Burke would have signed him by now) I hope the guy finds his feng shui, I hope he matures and I hope he finds a good team. I ONLY hope its not with DETROIT!!!!!!

First of all, I had no idea you were a woman, nor do I care. And what do you not understand about "in terms of what Detroit would have to give up'? I know that Carter makes more money than Ryan; I'm saying that Detroit would have to give up less in term of players/prospects to acquire him. Am I speaking in Latin? Carter would be the cheapest high-profile player available, again, in terms of what Detroit would have to give up. Would I rather have Ryan? Sure, and If Holland could make it happen and not have to sell the farm to do so, then by all means.

Secondly, Carter in not prone to injury. He's had 1 season in his first 6 were he played less that 70 games. Zetterberg had two. Carter has played in at least 80 game in 4 of his first 6 seasons. Kronwall, Filppula and Franzen have only played in at least 80 games once. You're going to have to define "injury prone"

Thirdly, You're right, no one can have any idea if any trade will work, but I think it would be worth the risk. And if you think one player can have a dramatic effect on a locker-room, especially a locker-room like Detroit's, you listen to the press too much. Polarizing players make great scapegoats if a team underachieves, but it is never one player. These are professional athletes and this THEE professional team. Carter can only make this team better. Nothing else.

We will obviously never see eye-to-eye on this: You see a selfish, lazy, 'injury-prone" prima donna, that will somehow destroy team chemistry. --- I see a player in need of a little guidance, who is a 30-50 goal scorer, and will drastically improve Detroit's chances of winning the Cup. Agree to disagree.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see how taking a risk on someone with such a massively long and expensive contract and an NTC could possibly be considered worth it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see how taking a risk on someone with such a massively long and expensive contract and an NTC could possibly be considered worth it.

The NTC no longer exists in his contract. it was nullified when philly traded him before it kicked in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First of all, I had no idea you were a woman, nor do I care. And what do you not understand about "in terms of what Detroit would have to give up'? I know that Carter makes more money than Ryan; I'm saying that Detroit would have to give up less in term of players/prospects to acquire him. Am I speaking in Latin? Carter would be the cheapest high-profile player available, again, in terms of what Detroit would have to give up. Would I rather have Ryan? Sure, and If Holland could make it happen and not have to sell the farm to do so, then by all means.

Secondly, Carter in not prone to injury. He's had 1 season in his first 6 were he played less that 70 games. Zetterberg had two. Carter has played in at least 80 game in 4 of his first 6 seasons. Kronwall, Filppula and Franzen have only played in at least 80 games once. You're going to have to define "injury prone"

Thirdly, You're right, no one can have any idea if any trade will work, but I think it would be worth the risk. And if you think one player can have a dramatic effect on a locker-room, especially a locker-room like Detroit's, you listen to the press too much. Polarizing players make great scapegoats if a team underachieves, but it is never one player. These are professional athletes and this THEE professional team. Carter can only make this team better. Nothing else.

We will obviously never see eye-to-eye on this: You see a selfish, lazy, 'injury-prone" prima donna, that will somehow destroy team chemistry. --- I see a player in need of a little guidance, who is a 30-50 goal scorer, and will drastically improve Detroit's chances of winning the Cup. Agree to disagree.

The only thing I disagree with you here in this post is that you saying " Carter can only make his team better" WE don't ow that....I am sure Columbus painted that picture with a broad stoke as well that they now regret so Ik disagree......BUT I agree we could use a pure goal scorer. I can certainly think of names who I would LOVE to have who bring what Carter "may" bring.

Agree to disagree....but entertaining banter!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so people on LGW really think that a team in our division, that has been awful for nearly their entire existence, would trade Jeff Carter to us without getting either Zetterberg, Datsyuk, or Franzen in the deal?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so people on LGW really think that a team in our division, that has been awful for nearly their entire existence, would trade Jeff Carter to us without getting either Zetterberg, Datsyuk, or Franzen in the deal?

Ya, actually, I do. it didn't take a zetterberg or datsyuk for cbj to get him in the first place and his value has declined since then. also consider the contract that he is on and the difficulty that is involved in moving it. Realistically CBJ want some help on defence and a top 6 forward + our first rounder or a good prospect. if they wanted z or dats they would have to be adding big time. i think we have the pieces to get it done without blowing up our core. they will take the best deal available at this point (disregarding conference) considering they need to rebuild and are trying to get their max value back and minimize losses. but heck, thats just my opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure Kenny is going to do much that impacts the lineup this year. Sure he might add a complimentary piece like 4th line grinder or a 6-7 defenseman but I just don't think that's going to cut it this time. This team just gets too stale sometimes and that might be ok during the reg season but come playoff time it just won't do. If the power play goes cold like it is right now they'll be bounced in a heartbeat by a team like SJ or Van or Chi. As much as I respect Kenny and the brass of this team I think this year has to be attacked a little differently if they really want to push for the cup. All this being said if a true top 3 player is available (Nash, parise, stall etc... They really should look into making a move. I'm not sure Carter is the guy but if he can be had for maybe:

Jurco

Kindle

First rounder

For Carter

Then I think you go for it.

I see where you heads at...but I would much rather hang on to the current prospects we have (Jurco, Jarnkrok, Nyquist, Pulkkinen,Tatar, Tvrdon)...I just think there is too much potential in these guys to get rid of them to bring in a guy that we dont really need. I mean, we are 1st overall in the league right now, so to give up these prospects that are oozing with talent and potential would be a mistake in my opinion. I would however consider that trade if Sheahan were involved. For some reason im just not seeing the wow factor with this guy.

Maybe a deal like Kindl+Sheahan+Ferarro and a 2nd rounder...I dont know anyone with me on this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

CBJ is looking to improve now. Prospects with unknown NHL skill and fringe roster players will not land Carter. IMO the trade would start with a top six forward, and then those pieces would be added.

I'd take Carter for scraps (what many are proposing) but I prefer our top six players to him. Hudler can't be included because his contract is going to expire soon. Overall, I'm against Carter because of the cost and issues mentioned by other posters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ya, actually, I do. it didn't take a zetterberg or datsyuk for cbj to get him in the first place and his value has declined since then. also consider the contract that he is on and the difficulty that is involved in moving it. Realistically CBJ want some help on defence and a top 6 forward + our first rounder or a good prospect. if they wanted z or dats they would have to be adding big time. i think we have the pieces to get it done without blowing up our core. they will take the best deal available at this point (disregarding conference) considering they need to rebuild and are trying to get their max value back and minimize losses. but heck, thats just my opinion.

Fair enough, granted if its true that Columbus really does want/have to trade Carter. But how has his value declined in 4 months of hockey?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The NTC no longer exists in his contract. it was nullified when philly traded him before it kicked in.

The NTC activates at the start of the 2012-2013 season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still would not like Carter. I maintain that he would be a poor fit for the locker room. More, he will be difficult to trade if he does not pan out for two teams in a row.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still would not like Carter. I maintain that he would be a poor fit for the locker room. More, he will be difficult to trade if he does not pan out for two teams in a row.

Worse. Three teams in a row. ;)

I have to say again...Carter's not the type of player who would play with much grit or heart in the playoffs. Despite his immense talent, he's prone to taking nights off and becoming invisible when the game gets tougher.

At least Franzen shows up in the playoffs and doesn't have attitude problems.

Motown4013 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only thing I disagree with you here in this post is that you saying " Carter can only make his team better" WE don't ow that....I am sure Columbus painted that picture with a broad stoke as well that they now regret so Ik disagree......BUT I agree we could use a pure goal scorer. I can certainly think of names who I would LOVE to have who bring what Carter "may" bring.

Agree to disagree....but entertaining banter!

Yeah, when a team trades an elite player, it's fair to question why. And then when the team he was traded to wants to trade him halfway through the season, red flags go up. But the only thing that gives me hope for him is that in Philli, as I said, he was in an unhealthy environment. And with Columbus, he just never wanted to go there, and you see that with a lot of high-profile athletes when they are traded to a losing organization, so I almost give him a pass on that. Is he immature? No question about it. Can people question his work ethic? Maybe, but I hear differing opinions from Flyers fans. Some thought he he played too passively, and didn't back-check hard enough, while others hated to see him go, and thought he was growing as an all-around player, so It's hard to tell.

But I see so much potential in this kid, and see him really helping Detroit win, that it's hard for me to dwell on the bad stuff if there was a way to bring him in to the fold.

But I don't think you have anything to worry about, because I honestly don't expect Ken Holland to do anything significant at the deadline. I would welcome Carter with open arms, maybe only one of the few Red Wings fans that would, but It's probably not going to happen. But right-handed shot like his certainly would help. We'll see what, if anything, Holland does. It will be interesting.

Edited by Hairy Lime

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But I don't think you have anything to worry about, because I honestly don't expect Ken Holland to do anything significant at the deadline. I would welcome Carter with open arms, maybe only one of the few Red Wings fans that would, but It's probably not going to happen. But right-handed shot like his certainly would help. We'll see what, if anything, Holland does. It will be interesting.

Agreed. I think the price to make a big splash will be way too high. Unless C'bus wants to get rid of Carter for twenty cents on the dollar, I don't see it happening. Regardless, if there's a locker room that can teach Carter how to mature & become a true professional NHLer, it's Detroit's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's a reason why Carter's still in Columbus and not rumoured to be on a specific team's radar. At the moment his baggage (personal and financial) far outweighs the benefits of his on-ice play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's an interesting take from Travis Yost of HockeyBuzz,com:

Reading responses from both Bill Meltzer and Richard Cloutier has me sitting squarely on the fence. The issue here is that, no matter what way you look at Carter, a fine line has been drawn. On one side, you have a mercurial talent with an injury history and contract that's locked-in until 2022(!). Further, moving a player like Jeff Carter - a guy who can play the 1LC in this NHL - puts Columbus back to square one; that is, looking for a pivot for talented winger Rick Nash.On the other side, this Columbus team looks hopeless. I can say that with confidence, as I pretty much tore the moves made by this front office to shreds here on HockeyBuzz over the summer. Square pegs, round holes. Moving Carter would get rid of an egregious contract, and hopefully bring in talented pieces to build around. Cutting losses, moving on.<The first question you have to ask: Is there a contender in the National Hockey League that would roll the dice on Jeff Carter? Resoundingly, yes. First, these teams have to smell blood in the water. They're going to get Carter at a discount to what Columbus gave up, and speaking strictly in terms of value, that's a good buy. Second, there's seemingly a number of playoff contenders that are just one piece away from looking Stanley Cup caliber. Here, I present the Detroit Red Wings - a franchise that's long prided itself on making the right moves at the right time. Detroit's one of the best in the NHL right now, but bringing in Jeff Carter would have to put them neck-and-neck with the likes of Vancouver in the West. And, just imagine Carter drawing into Detroit's top-six. In my opinion, the lines look something like this:

Todd Bertuzzi - Pavel Datsyuk - Johan Franzen

Valtteri Filppula - Jeff Carter - Henrik Zetterberg

Is there a better top-six in the National Hockey League? Uh, doubtful. Bringing in Jeff Carter could jump-start the talented Henrik Zetterberg on L2, who has really slowed as of late. And, I think Filppula has more than proven his worth to this team, forming a slid trio behind the venerable Datsyuk L1.<The best part about Jeff Carter? He's flexible. Detroit's in need of a right-handed shot, too, and Carter could theoretically jump into one of the two RW spots if need be. The Red Wings - in this deal - can kiss their first-round pick goodbye. Also heading in the other direction? At least one top prospect. In Detroit's ranks, my guess is Columbus would require at least one of Brendan Smith, Tomas Tatar, Gustav Nyquist, Tomas Jurco, or Teemu Pulkkinen in exchange.Would Detroit make this deal? Hard to say. But, I do think it'd solidify them as a Stanley Cup contender, and with enough cap room to take on Jeff Carter's contract without 'selling' off a piece(+$5.38M), it's one they very well could consider.The biggest hurdle here? The fact that the two play in the same division. Perhaps Detroit would have to sweeten the pot a bit.

Again, I think he's worth the risk, but I also realize that I am in the minority.

Edited by Hairy Lime

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Totally agree with the above post. It makes sense and with lids almost done it would really improve our chances this year. That post sums up exactly how i feel and more

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Totally agree with the above post. It makes sense and with lids almost done it would really improve our chances this year. That post sums up exactly how i feel and more

And this move could have the added benefit, as stated in the article, of moving Hank out to the wing. One of the reasons Fil is having his best year ever, imo, is due to the fact that he's pretty much played wing exclusively & doesn't have the defensive responsibilities that go with playing center. Bringing Carter in to play center (well, anyone really) at times to take the pressure off of Hank would be a godsend as far as I'm concerned.

Edited by ogreslayer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0