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under_par_00

Jeff Carter

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I still don't understand this "The Wings locker room will cure all attitude ailments!" thing. It's just not true, else the likes of Ville Leino and Sean Avery would not have been traded.

It's not as sure a thing as say cutting off an arm or removing a lung but when you are surrounded by what Detroit has to offer I think a person would absorb that and be like his peers. Unless he is stupid and therefore a terminal cancer type like Sean Avery then there is no cure! Leino was a bad example, it was his s***ty play and unwillingness to do what was needed of him that got him traded.

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...players who are lazy are traded. Players who have poor work ethics...

So Franzen WILL be traded in a couple of weeks! AWESOME!!

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So Franzen WILL be traded in a couple of weeks! AWESOME!!

Have you heard even the merest whispers from anywhere that anyone within the organization is dissatisfied with Franzen's level of effort? Sure, he plays harder in the playoffs than in the regular season, but that isn't uncommon by any stretch of the imagination.

It's not as sure a thing as say cutting off an arm or removing a lung but when you are surrounded by what Detroit has to offer I think a person would absorb that and be like his peers. Unless he is stupid and therefore a terminal cancer type like Sean Avery then there is no cure! Leino was a bad example, it was his s***ty play and unwillingness to do what was needed of him that got him traded.

Leino was traded because of his poor attitude and laziness, more or less. Anyway, you're giving the average player too much credit here. And this would be a fairly big risk to take, given that Carter would become untradeable without his consent the second next season begins.

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Are you here to discuss or to make categorical statements?

The NBA and the NHL are vastly different leagues, and basketball and hockey are vastly different sports. Bad attitudes and prima-donnas are common in the NBA but are looked down upon in the NHL. As for Kobe Bryant, he's really not a good NBA counterpart to Jeff Carter. Given that Bryant is almost indisputably one of the best players in the NBA's history, you'd more likely be looking at Gretzky or Lemieux as a comparable player.

Goodness, gracious. Would you please consider trying to get on the Sharks` management team? You'd do a great job of running that locker room into the ground. Apparently you're hugely unaware of such very important factors as harmony in the locker room. Teammates who get along play well together. Teammates who detest each other do not play well together. One of the keys` to the Wings success over the past two decades has been keeping a harmonious locker room. Players with bad attitudes are not given a chance to play on the team; players who are lazy are traded. Players who have poor work ethics and who attempt to sleep with the spouses of their teammates are NOT given a chance.

Let's imagine a fun scenario: "Hey, everybody, this is Jeff Carter! We just traded for him. So you know, he's often lazy, sometimes has a poor work ethic, has been known to be irresponsible in his personal life, and might attempt to sleep with your spouse. Please welcome him to the team!"

...

Le sigh.

I still don't understand this "The Wings locker room will cure all attitude ailments!" thing. It's just not true, else the likes of Ville Leino and Sean Avery would not have been traded.

Do you really think everyone in the Red Wings locker-room got along? You, and many other prudish Wings fans, have been spoiled by having guys like Yzerman, Lidstrom and Dastyuk around all these years, and think that every hockey player must follow their example. Give me a break. As I said, one bad apple don't spoil the whole bunch, and Carter is not Heatley.

Edited by haroldsnepsts
to clean up the crap and keep on topic
redwingfan19 likes this

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Bobby Ryan would NOT command a lot steeper price than Carter. Carter is 6.2 next year, Bobby Ryan is 5.5..Unless Bobby Ryan gets a hatty in the next 30 games, rest assured, Carter's pricetag is bigger. As the saying goes, One bad apple does spoil the bunch and Carter is a selffish prima donna who is not a team guy. Detroit does not subscribe to the bullshart that Carter brings.

Maybe YOU need to watch another sport!

I'm taking about what Detroit would have to give up, not salary. I bet you hated the idea of bringing in Chelios, Drake and Berttuzzi, too, huh? I'm not sure that they fit the "squeaky clean" image that Detroit seems to demand??? Goodness gracious, I didn't know that the Red Wings were trying to adhere to the morals of the church of latter day saints, I thought they were in the business of winning cups? I guess adding a 40 goal scorer would not help that cause, since he's a "bad apple'.

Carter would fit in just fine, as you will see when Holland trades for him. Wait and see.

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Ive said before that i would welcome carter with open arms. The issues in philly he should have learned from and there arent any guys on the current roster that would be influenced by carter. Furthermore, the attitude in cb is rightfully so. Who would want to be pawned of to the worst team in the league? Especially after signing long term with that team expecting a nmc.

No, that attitude is inexcusable. If a team is paying you, you should be trying your best. You should not sit down and whine because the team is not good. To do so would be immensely immature and enormously unprofessional.

Think of the possibilities with datsyuk zetterberg and carter available at center for the top 2 lines. Thats a lot to handle in terms of matchups for opposing teams. If had for the right price we would be nuts to pass him up.

I don't think we need another perimeter player.

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No, that attitude is inexcusable. If a team is paying you, you should be trying your best. You should not sit down and whine because the team is not good. To do so would be immensely immature and enormously unprofessional.

I don't think we need another perimeter player.

ya thats cute and all to think that it doesn't matter what team you play for as long as they are paying you. if your heart isn't there and you aren't having fun - for whatever reason - you aren't going to play your best. he can't help the fact that he has a s***ty team around him, I'm sure he's not intentionally playing bad and getting injured. its just a matter of not having the right guys around you, he can't light it up on his own. how do you know carter isn't "trying his best?" Not playing your best doesn't mean you aren't trying your best - look at Z this year. and ya, that contract he signed WITH a NTC was intended for philly, so I can see how he could be pissed that he is now playing it out (practically stuck and untradeable) in one of the worst teams in the league. go from cup contender and finalist a couple years ago to bottom feeder. he wanted a future with philly and would have never signed a contract like that for cbj.

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ya thats cute and all to think that it doesn't matter what team you play for as long as they are paying you. if your heart isn't there and you aren't having fun - for whatever reason - you aren't going to play your best.

If you aren't trying to play your best regardless, then there's something wrong. Mature, professional players will be team players. Immature, unprofessional players will sulk when their team is not playing well rather than trying to do what they can to turn it around.

he can't help the fact that he has a s***ty team around him, I'm sure he's not intentionally playing bad and getting injured. its just a matter of not having the right guys around you, he can't light it up on his own. how do you know carter isn't "trying his best?" Not playing your best doesn't mean you aren't trying your best - look at Z this year. and ya, that contract he signed WITH a NTC was intended for philly, so I can see how he could be pissed that he is now playing it out (practically stuck and untradeable) in one of the worst teams in the league. go from cup contender and finalist a couple years ago to bottom feeder. he wanted a future with philly and would have never signed a contract like that for cbj.

I disagree with your assertion that playing to less than maximum effort or having a poor attitude is acceptable.

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If you aren't trying to play your best regardless, then there's something wrong. Mature, professional players will be team players. Immature, unprofessional players will sulk when their team is not playing well rather than trying to do what they can to turn it around.

I disagree with your assertion that playing to less than maximum effort or having a poor attitude is acceptable.

my statement was that how are you to know that he isn't trying to play his best? have you talked to him? obviously he hasn't performed as well as he did in philly but is this as a result of his "effort" or the team around him? we cannot know.

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my statement was that how are you to know that he isn't trying to play his best? have you talked to him? obviously he hasn't performed as well as he did in philly but is this as a result of his "effort" or the team around him? we cannot know.

It was your own hypothesis that he's deliberately slacking off because his team sucks.

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He's been hurt a lot and he sleeps with other players' wives.

Probably not a good idea for us.

He'd get along great with Hudler though, that's a plus :hehe:

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pros

good shot

i think he plays pk if i remember correctly

cons

injury prone

bad attitude

big contract

id probably pass but wouldnt be mad if we somehow picked him up for the right price. like hudler and a draft pick

Edited by brett

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It was your own hypothesis that he's deliberately slacking off because his team sucks.

it wasn't a hypothesis - it was judgement that IF he was slacking off i could see why.

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I'm taking about what Detroit would have to give up, not salary. I bet you hated the idea of bringing in Chelios, Drake and Berttuzzi, too, huh? I'm not sure that they fit the "squeaky clean" image that Detroit seems to demand??? Goodness gracious, I didn't know that the Red Wings were trying to adhere to the morals of the church of latter day saints, I thought they were in the business of winning cups? I guess adding a 40 goal scorer would not help that cause, since he's a "bad apple'.

Carter would fit in just fine, as you will see when Holland trades for him. Wait and see.

You make no sense here...if Carter is "worth" more....we would have to package more to get him, right??? We learned that in grade two...stay with me.

As for your assumption about me and my love for frat boy, cooler drinking softies, ummmm NO. I love the bad boys to be honest...huge Bert fan, loved Drake ect. Stop making these ridiculous personal judgements about anyone that doesnt agree with you.

Good ness gracious.

A 40 goal scorer would help. Of course one would- but not at the risk of the team. Carter is not a team guy and the INSTANT you have to say in your arguement that he has a history of boning other guys wives, well get the ^$# outta here. Nash is a character guy...even Ryan, but *** Carter. It will NEVER HAPPEN and if you were a Wings fan and had some idea about the history of this franchise, you'd know that.

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Carter is not a team guy and the INSTANT you have to say in your arguement that he has a history of boning other guys wives, well get the ^$# outta here. Nash is a character guy...even Ryan, but *** Carter. It will NEVER HAPPEN and if you were a Wings fan and had some idea about the history of this franchise, you'd know that.

The Wings would never trade for a guy who boned another man's wife? I think this guy would disagree...

Craigjanney.jpg

But that's more about the history of another franchise I guess. If you do want to talk Wings franchise history though, I think it's pretty safe to say that if the front office & the coaching staff really thought that Carter was the piece to take them over the top & win The Cup this year (like they did with a certain lad of Irish descent that they traded for in 1996) Kenny would find a way to get it done.

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I'm not sure Kenny is going to do much that impacts the lineup this year. Sure he might add a complimentary piece like 4th line grinder or a 6-7 defenseman but I just don't think that's going to cut it this time. This team just gets too stale sometimes and that might be ok during the reg season but come playoff time it just won't do. If the power play goes cold like it is right now they'll be bounced in a heartbeat by a team like SJ or Van or Chi. As much as I respect Kenny and the brass of this team I think this year has to be attacked a little differently if they really want to push for the cup. All this being said if a true top 3 player is available (Nash, parise, stall etc... They really should look into making a move. I'm not sure Carter is the guy but if he can be had for maybe:

Jurco

Kindle

First rounder

For Carter

Then I think you go for it.

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The Wings would never trade for a guy who boned another man's wife? I think this guy would disagree...

Craigjanney.jpg

But that's more about the history of another franchise I guess. If you do want to talk Wings franchise history though, I think it's pretty safe to say that if the front office & the coaching staff really thought that Carter was the piece to take them over the top & win The Cup this year (like they did with a certain lad of Irish descent that they traded for in 1996) Kenny would find a way to get it done.

I think this is a very different situation.He ended up marrying her...this wasn't a notch in his belt over a teammate.....the dude fell in love. Shanny did not have a bad reputation or thought of being a prima-Donna. He alos wasnt injury proned and has never been accused of not having a ton of charactor or a huge heart. To suggest the 2 are comparable are kinda ridiculous.

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You make no sense here...if Carter is "worth" more....we would have to package more to get him, right??? We learned that in grade two...stay with me.

As for your assumption about me and my love for frat boy, cooler drinking softies, ummmm NO. I love the bad boys to be honest...huge Bert fan, loved Drake ect. Stop making these ridiculous personal judgements about anyone that doesnt agree with you.

Good ness gracious.

A 40 goal scorer would help. Of course one would- but not at the risk of the team. Carter is not a team guy and the INSTANT you have to say in your arguement that he has a history of boning other guys wives, well get the ^$# outta here. Nash is a character guy...even Ryan, but *** Carter. It will NEVER HAPPEN and if you were a Wings fan and had some idea about the history of this franchise, you'd know that.

Ok, I am going to try and simplify it for you as to not go over your head: Carter wants out of Columbus. It's also no secret that Columbus wants to trade him. The second a player wants out of an organization and everyone knows it, that gives other teams leverage in negotiations. Sure, Columbus does have to deal him, but they WANT TOO! They will not be asking for the kitchen sink like Anaheim would be for Ryan.

As to "boning other guys wives", who knows if that is true or not. But you had better get off your moral high horse, because Detroit used to have player named Brendan Shanahan, ever heard of him? Ask Craig Janney about him.

But hey, if Detroit could get another right-handed sniper, fine. But it won't come as cheaply(in terms of what we will have to give up). But since everyone KNOWS that Carter will destroy the locker-room, which does not say much for Detroit's locker-room that ONE player could "tear it apart", I will say that I KNOW that he will behave and mature here. How do I know that he will? I don't, just like you don't know he won't. Does evidence favor your argument? Maybe. But in Philly, he was in a pretty divisive locker-room to begin with, with some pretty big egos and personalities ... and they still went to the finals! Imagine that? Detroit has a pretty ego-free locker-room, except for maybe Franzen, so I see nothing standing in the way of his maturing.

Detroit has no right-handed shooters in their top six forwards. If you think that that doesn't remove a dimension from their game, you are sorely mistaken. It limits shooting options. How many times have you heard Mickey Redmond say: "If he would of been a right-handed shot, he would of buried it". The one thing Detroit's top-six forwards have going for them, and why they haven't been completely limited, is that Datsyuk, Bertuzzi, Zetterberg, and Hudler all have pretty good back-hands. But you put a potent right-handed shot on either one of those top two lines, preferably both, you will see the scoring chances go up. I guarantee it.

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Anybody who thinks that Carter would not be a great addition(and give Detroit that much-needed right-handed sniper)probably needs to watch another sport. Hockey is not your game. Character/Attitude problems? Well, I guess LA should of traded Kobe Bryant years ago? I will admit, I like players with good character, but I also like to win... and besides, the worse thing I heard about Carter is that he likes to chase teammate's wife's. If you have a faithful wife, you have nothing to worry about. Would I rather have a player like Bobby Ryan? Sure, but the price would be a lot steeper.

One bad apple don't spoil the whole bunch. Get 'er done, Kenny!

While I for one don't follow the NBA, but with that said I've gotten the impression that in the past 15 years pro basketball has become less team oriented, and seems to allow the spotlight to shine on the individuals - hence why "Kobe" is at home in LA-LA-Land.

Carter has the talent every team wants, but the attitude the gms/coaches don't want.

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If it was a one year contract I'd be willing to overlook all the warning signs that follow this guy around, but it's too much of a risk for a long term investment on someone who could become a cancer and render himself a very difficult person to move

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ogreslayer - that's a big-ass pic of Craig Janney...Did ya take the poster from your bedroom wall, and scan it to post it here ;)

Travis likes this

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ogreslayer - that's a big-ass pic of Craig Janney...Did ya take the poster from your bedroom wall, and scan it to post it here ;)

Nope, just the best pic I could find on-line where he had a hang-dog "You just did what with my wife?" look on his face.

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Nope, just the best pic I could find on-line where he had a hang-dog "You just did what with my wife?" look on his face.

:lol:

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I think this is a very different situation.He ended up marrying her...this wasn't a notch in his belt over a teammate.....the dude fell in love. Shanny did not have a bad reputation or thought of being a prima-Donna. He alos wasnt injury proned and has never been accused of not having a ton of charactor or a huge heart. To suggest the 2 are comparable are kinda ridiculous.

Carter was only rumored to have slept with Hartnell's wife where Shanny did indeed do that & ended up marrying Janney's wife 3 years after the incident. So I guess that means by your line of thinking, once Carter marries the former Lisa Hartnell & confirms that their screwing around is what broke up her marriage, the Wings organization (and by extension you) would be able to welcome him with open arms?

Oh and for Carter being a prima donna & making it known he wants out of Columbus being something that Shanny would never do here's just a little bit of an article from back in October of 1996 about a little transaction between the Wings & Whalers...

Hartford is finally in Brendan Shanahan's rearview mirror.

The Whalers granted Shanahan's wish yesterday when they traded the disgruntled forward along with defenseman Brian Glynn to the Detroit Red Wings for Paul Coffey, Keith Primeau and a first-round draft pick next year.

The 27-year-old Shanahan, a first-round choice of the Devils in the 1987 draft, made noise all summer that he wanted out of Hartford. He was held scoreless last night during Detroit's 2-0 victory over the Edmonton Oilers.

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/10/10/sports/whalers-finally-trade-shanahan-for-coffey.html

Maybe take the Wings Rose-Red colored glasses off & see the situations aren't all that different after all.

Edited by ogreslayer
dirtydangles likes this

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