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ComradeWasabi

Justin Abdelkader: A fighter's courage, but no fighter's skill

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I agree with you, it would be a nice luxury to have, but it just doesn't fit the current DRW scheme. When the Wings had players who were more gritty and could throw down, I guess I'm thinking the Grind Line or a Dallas Drake, they brought something else to the table and were a good overall hockey player as well who could sometimes bury and always got back on defense. That kind of player is hard to come by in this league these days.

What kind of player? A gritty fighter who can score as many points as Helm, Emmerton or Abby? Those players are easy to find all around the league.

Edited by GMRwings1983

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I agree with you, it would be a nice luxury to have, but it just doesn't fit the current DRW scheme. When the Wings had players who were more gritty and could throw down, I guess I'm thinking the Grind Line or a Dallas Drake, they brought something else to the table and were a good overall hockey player as well who could sometimes bury and always got back on defense. That kind of player is hard to come by in this league these days.

In the 2007-2008 season Dallas Drake only fought 5 times (one less than Abby this season) and according to hockeyfights.com he only won two of them.

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if homer retire wouldn't mind a fighter taking his spot on the 4th line.

oh, and abby needs to work on his left and he will be fine. we saw what happened when he got is lose against lappy.

Edited by redwingfan19

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Wasn't aware that Drake fought Robidas?

Dallas Drake was a straight up head hunter. :D

Edited by redwingfan19

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I agree with you, it would be a nice luxury to have, but it just doesn't fit the current DRW scheme. When the Wings had players who were more gritty and could throw down, I guess I'm thinking the Grind Line or a Dallas Drake, they brought something else to the table and were a good overall hockey player as well who could sometimes bury and always got back on defense. That kind of player is hard to come by in this league these days.

While this type player is always in demand, I think there are more than enough for us to grab one. There are plenty of tougher guys who offer face offs, hitting, penalty kill, hitting, and of course fighting while producing enough points.

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He didn't.

esteef

So the point you were trying to make is that on occasion Dallas Drake was capable of hitting 180 lbs. puck moving defensemen pretty hard?

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So the point you were trying to make is that on occasion Dallas Drake was capable of hitting 180 lbs. puck moving defensemen pretty hard?

Lets not forget Drake was 38 years old and well past his prime when he played for the Wings in 08.

He was a wrecking ball and pound for pound one of the toughest at one time.

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So the point you were trying to make is that on occasion Dallas Drake was capable of hitting 180 lbs. puck moving defensemen pretty hard?

No I think what hes trying to say is that Drake was an absolutely huge hitter on the cup run and also capable of sticking up for his teammates through the regular season. He would have had more then 5 fights that year but Downey did all the fighting on that squad.

Abdelkader is like a Dallas Drake, capable of defending teammates and a big hitter but shouldnt be the guy carrying the load of the fighting because he cant handle the Clowes of the league. Adding one guy to take on the brunt of the load and allowing Abdelkader to run around more crushing guys without having to fight all the time would be perfect

Detroit needs to get their hands on Prust this offseason :cool:

And for the record I think Abdelkader is a fine middlweight scrapper, hes fought some pretty big tough guys lately and was at the end of a long shift against Jones. Hes really only just embraced the fighting role and played NCAA so he couldnt hone his fighting skill like guys who played in the CHL. Give him a couple more years and he'll be a very good middleweight

Frozen-Man likes this

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The Red Wings have enough offensive ability in their top 3 lines to dress a fighter every night. Everyone keeps saying (Babs included) that a fighter is useless since all they do is eat up minutes and take penalties. Yeah, they do that. They also (if they can hit, which most of the time they can) keep the other team's stars and ass-clowns looking over their shoulder and hopefully distracts them from what they do best (score goals and run around being ass-clowns).

This team can support a legit enforcer (i.e. Parros, McGrattan, Kocur, etc) that is expected to keep the peace and lay on the occasional big hit, and possibly find a niche in the Red Wing' style of play as a net front presence (replacing Homer eventually). A power-forward that is a good fighter and scorer (i.e. Lucic) is rare and can't really be pursued since they are high value to their current team. Which is why a 3rd line player on a non-playoff team (Moen) commands a high price or isn't on the block at all.

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The Red Wings have enough offensive ability in their top 3 lines to dress a fighter every night. Everyone keeps saying (Babs included) that a fighter is useless since all they do is eat up minutes and take penalties. Yeah, they do that. They also (if they can hit, which most of the time they can) keep the other team's stars and ass-clowns looking over their shoulder and hopefully distracts them from what they do best (score goals and run around being ass-clowns).

This team can support a legit enforcer (i.e. Parros, McGrattan, Kocur, etc) that is expected to keep the peace and lay on the occasional big hit, and possibly find a niche in the Red Wing' style of play as a net front presence (replacing Homer eventually). A power-forward that is a good fighter and scorer (i.e. Lucic) is rare and can't really be pursued since they are high value to their current team. Which is why a 3rd line player on a non-playoff team (Moen) commands a high price or isn't on the block at all.

I wouldn't want McGratton, his off the ice issues aren't what this organization needs... Babcock Holland Illitch wouldn't tolerate his partying habits. As long as Holland is the GM, its safe to say there will not be an enforcer type player on Detroit. I agree with the person who posted that Abby should get Kocur to help him with his positioning of his body during a scrap, the leverage and positioning a large part of it, and I think Abby looks off-balance in most of the scraps. Ive always noticed that Kocur Downey or Probie tried having their feet perpendicular to the oppoent, digging into the ice allowing them to use their legs and hips in each punch. Just a thought people.......

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the problem is in many cases there are more elbows and high sticks and guys blowing up and going insane in college due to the cages and lack of fighting.

Yup - I agree with ya 100%, and so do neanderthals - erm GM's like Brian Burke.

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No I think what hes trying to say is that Drake was an absolutely huge hitter on the cup run and also capable of sticking up for his teammates through the regular season. He would have had more then 5 fights that year but Downey did all the fighting on that squad.

Abdelkader is like a Dallas Drake, capable of defending teammates and a big hitter but shouldnt be the guy carrying the load of the fighting because he cant handle the Clowes of the league. Adding one guy to take on the brunt of the load and allowing Abdelkader to run around more crushing guys without having to fight all the time would be perfect

Detroit needs to get their hands on Prust this offseason :cool:

And for the record I think Abdelkader is a fine middlweight scrapper, hes fought some pretty big tough guys lately and was at the end of a long shift against Jones. Hes really only just embraced the fighting role and played NCAA so he couldnt hone his fighting skill like guys who played in the CHL. Give him a couple more years and he'll be a very good middleweight

No doubt he was a pretty good hitter, but I don't think the example I'd use to show that would be a couple of hits on Stephane Robidas..you know, considering the guy is small and isn't real tough. It would be like saying "Check out how tough Jordin Tootoo is. He absolutely killed Cory Emmerton here."

I agree with you on Abby though.

Edited by kipwinger

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Abdelkader just needs to stop fighting and play hockey. I commend him for being willing to drop the gloves but until he learns to be an effective fighter or just stop. All he is doing is giving the opposition momentum by getting himself beat badly. Perfect example is the San Jose game the other week. The Wings were in control of the game and he goes and gets destroyed by Ryan Clowe. San Jose gets momentum and goes out and scores a mere 30 seconds later. There was no reason for Abdelkader to take that fight. Nobody got cheap shotted. Nothing could be gained by him for taking that fight. Hes much more effective shutting down players on the ice than trying to knock them out.

Him fighting does nothing to "keep the flies off". Nobody in the league is going to think twice about running Datsyuk, Lidstrom, or Z because big bad Abdelkader is going to come after them. If anything it encourages it.

sleepwalker and redwings4life like this

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Abdelkader just needs to stop fighting and play hockey. I commend him for being willing to drop the gloves but until he learns to be an effective fighter or just stop. All he is doing is giving the opposition momentum by getting himself beat badly. Perfect example is the San Jose game the other week. The Wings were in control of the game and he goes and gets destroyed by Ryan Clowe. San Jose gets momentum and goes out and scores a mere 30 seconds later. There was no reason for Abdelkader to take that fight. Nobody got cheap shotted. Nothing could be gained by him for taking that fight. Hes much more effective shutting down players on the ice than trying to knock them out.

Him fighting does nothing to "keep the flies off". Nobody in the league is going to think twice about running Datsyuk, Lidstrom, or Z because big bad Abdelkader is going to come after them. If anything it encourages it.

Agreed.

I admire Abby's effort - he's just very average at best at fighting , and sooner, or later he's gonna get his bell rung...Better off just trying to play, and fight only in rare cases...If anything Holland could help out by signing a guy, or two this summer who might be more proficient in this area.

Well - I lied - I made my comment :lol:

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Abdelkader just needs to stop fighting and play hockey. I commend him for being willing to drop the gloves but until he learns to be an effective fighter or just stop. All he is doing is giving the opposition momentum by getting himself beat badly. Perfect example is the San Jose game the other week. The Wings were in control of the game and he goes and gets destroyed by Ryan Clowe. San Jose gets momentum and goes out and scores a mere 30 seconds later. There was no reason for Abdelkader to take that fight. Nobody got cheap shotted. Nothing could be gained by him for taking that fight. Hes much more effective shutting down players on the ice than trying to knock them out.

Him fighting does nothing to "keep the flies off". Nobody in the league is going to think twice about running Datsyuk, Lidstrom, or Z because big bad Abdelkader is going to come after them. If anything it encourages it.

I dunno, hes given them obvious moentum boosts after a couple of his scraps. His first scrap agaisnt Lapierre it was especially obvious. Pretty sure the wings came down and scored right after he fought Wilson too

No doubt he was a pretty good hitter, but I don't think the example I'd use to show that would be a couple of hits on Stephane Robidas..you know, considering the guy is small and isn't real tough. It would be like saying "Check out how tough Jordin Tootoo is. He absolutely killed Cory Emmerton here."

I agree with you on Abby though.

Robidas is 5'11 200lbs, pretty stocky bastard and he always has played a fairly physical brand of hockey

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Abdelkader has got some offensive upside. I think he should focus more on developing his all-around game, and we should pick up a guy or two to keep the flies off. Don't get me wrong, the fact that he isn't afraid to drop the gloves is great, but it is a problem when nobody else on the team is willing to go. He's not a great fighter, but he'll learn the ropes, hopefully. He's not the punching bag of the NHL, though. As long as Tom Kostopoulos, Max Lapierre, and Colin Fraser are in the NHL, Abby is safe from that title.

I don't mind Abby fighting, but there needs to be another couple of guys that can play and drop the gloves here and there, without being a liability to the team.

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I dunno, hes given them obvious moentum boosts after a couple of his scraps. His first scrap agaisnt Lapierre it was especially obvious. Pretty sure the wings came down and scored right after he fought Wilson too

Robidas is 5'11 200lbs, pretty stocky bastard and he always has played a fairly physical brand of hockey

Whatever the weight of Stephane Robidas, here's the statement I was originally responding to: "When the Wings had players who were more gritty and could throw down, I guess I'm thinking the Grind Line or a Dallas Drake, they brought something else to the table and were a good overall hockey player as well who could sometimes bury and always got back on defense. That kind of player is hard to come by in this league these days." Keeping in mind that we're on a thread about Justin Abdelkader fighting, I thought it was germaine to the discussion to point out that in the 2007-2008 season (e.g. the one everybody loves to talk Drake up in), he fought less and "buried" less than Abdelkader. Additionally, as Abby is a +7 on the season I find it hard to believe that he get's back on defense any less than Drake did. So as much as everyone wants to make Drake out to be a superhero, at least in the few instances just discussed, he didn't add as much as Abby has this season. The only reason anyone thinks so is because when he did hit guys, he hit them harder, which is cool and all...but doesn't really amount to s*** when you're comparing all around performance.

However, I'll concede the point when you bring in the grind line, because they were all better players than Justin Abdelkader, in spite of the fact that only one of them fought as much or more than he does.

Edited by kipwinger

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Abdelkader has got some offensive upside. I think he should focus more on developing his all-around game, and we should pick up a guy or two to keep the flies off. Don't get me wrong, the fact that he isn't afraid to drop the gloves is great, but it is a problem when nobody else on the team is willing to go. He's not a great fighter, but he'll learn the ropes, hopefully. He's not the punching bag of the NHL, though. As long as Tom Kostopoulos, Max Lapierre, and Colin Fraser are in the NHL, Abby is safe from that title.

I don't mind Abby fighting, but there needs to be another couple of guys that can play and drop the gloves here and there, without being a liability to the team.

And that's where the conundrum lies; the 80's/90's there was a plethora of players throughout the league capable, and willing to drop the gloves as well as being capable of playing the game itself...Today those numbers are much fewer, and IMHO the Wings have shown very little interest in drafting players of this ilk - thus placing the onus on guys like Abdelkader to step up from time to time - yet he himself isn't overly proficient in this area of the game, and really places himself in harms way for a team (read GM) that appears unwilling to draft these types of players to help ease the burden so to speak.

In other words - there were a handful of guys that were available for our beloved Detroit Red Wings to draft - yet Wings mgt/scouts drafted players completely opposite of that particular spectrum, and these players that the Wings glanced over are now contributing regulars in the NHL, and the players that were chosen instead are mired in the AHL with the odd call-up to fill in on the 4th line.

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And that's where the conundrum lies; the 80's/90's there was a plethora of players throughout the league capable, and willing to drop the gloves as well as being capable of playing the game itself...Today those numbers are much fewer, and IMHO the Wings have shown very little interest in drafting players of this ilk - thus placing the onus on guys like Abdelkader to step up from time to time - yet he himself isn't overly proficient in this area of the game, and really places himself in harms way for a team (read GM) that appears unwilling to draft these types of players to help ease the burden so to speak.

In other words - there were a handful of guys that were available for our beloved Detroit Red Wings to draft - yet Wings mgt/scouts drafted players completely opposite of that particular spectrum, and these players that the Wings glanced over are now contributing regulars in the NHL, and the players that were chosen instead are mired in the AHL with the odd call-up to fill in on the 4th line.

The number of players that can play and fight today are less than the '80s/'90s, but the notion that there are none available is laughable. There are still plenty of guys around that we can pick up in the summer that will help the team out, as well as dropping the gloves. As we get closer to free agency, I will compile a list of these types of players. Yeah, no doubt we've passed up on a lot of major talents in favor of who have turned out to be AHL players. There is no reason we can't pick up one of these guys over the summer. We'll have a ton of cap space.

Other than Abdelkader, Bertuzzi, and Helm, who is gonna get in on the forecheck and finish their checks and win puck battles along the boards and behind the net?

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