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Richdg

The truth of our decline.

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I suggest a drinking game based on the "new guy".

Any suggestions?

One shot for every misspelled player name

One shot per neg

One shot per condescending comment

Good luck liver.

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Good post Richdg. I wouldn't worry about all the neggs you get on the comments. Since I've been here, I have noticed many a Wing fan either incapable or unwilling to face the fact that it will soon be time to rebuild and that we aren't a dynasty anymore. Sadly, even when you give them the facts and throw the numbers in their faces, you still wont get them to be realistic about it. Of course we all want to see Detroit be a dominant force in the league and compete for cups year after year. But when you look at the facts and look at the numbers, it's not there and it's easy to see the decline. Thanks for the reality check.

He says to his own sock.

Rick, 55fan, MabusIncarnate and 3 others like this

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I'm not optimistic Red Wings are going to land Parise. I do think we have a very solid prospect pool... so I'm not worried. I was more disappointed with Howard and the bottom 6 against Nashville than I was with the top 6 in the playoffs. Not having Helm was a huge loss. Abdelkader is on my s*** list... I expected more out of him.

Edit to add:

Cleary gets a break because he played on one knee. Next year he will be much better.

Edited by Heaten
number9 likes this

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I'm not optimistic Red Wings are going to land Parise. I do think we have a very solid farm team... so I'm not worried. I was more disappointed with Howard and the bottom 6 against Nashville than I was with the top 6 in the playoffs. Not having Helm was a huge loss. Abdelkader is on my s*** list... I expected more out of him.

Abdelkader is of very limited use at center. He's good as a winger.

Frozen-Man, Jesusberg and number9 like this

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Just wondering the favorite flavor of kool aid? Cherry or strawberry? Either way, there is some massive consumption going on......

I wonder why you and others like you, who view disagreement with their catastrophic theories as resulting from stupidity, blindness or self-delusion, even bother to visit DISCUSSION forums. If you want your words to be read and not disagreed with, then go write a blog.

Dave, number9 and FlashyG like this

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Abdelkader is of very limited use at center. He's good as a winger.

Couldn't agree more. He's always been far more effective on the wing, imo.

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Just wondering the favorite flavor of kool aid? Cherry or strawberry? Either way, there is some massive consumption going on......

Most are drinking Red Wings flavored Kool aid and wearing their thick red wings glasses

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I wonder why you and others like you, who view disagreement with their catastrophic theories as resulting from stupidity, blindness or self-delusion, even bother to visit DISCUSSION forums. If you want your words to be read and not disagreed with, then go write a blog.

I wonder why somebody who completely disagrees with the wings system, has zero faith in our veteran players, and thinks we are heading straight into the gutter, is even a wings fan lol.

Nightfall and Hockeymom1960 like this

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LOL its called scoring percentage dude (pretty sure i said that in my original post....its reading not fantasy haha). Percentage of points scored per games played. Example: 80 pts in 80 games played would be 100% and 40 pts in 80 games played would be 50%......LOL did u really think i was just pulling random numbers out of a hat?????

Next ur gonna post a thread about how we dont have a good farm and Suter is only famous for his name hehe.gif

Actually, now that I understand what you where trying to say, it proves my point. If dat was at 125% scoring in 2008 and is at 95% scoring in 2012, that is a 30% DECLINE! Not to mention he is playing fewer and fewer games each year. In 08 and 09 Dat had 97 points. he played 82 games in 08 and 81 games in 09. Now he is down to the mid and lower 70's in games played. So thanks for making my point.

centcougar07 likes this

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From what I gather, based on this forum, others and the various PM I get, there is very much a generational divide when it comes to the Wings. Those that are in the late 20's and younger, the ones who grew up during all of the success, seem to think everything is fine, and the good times will never end. Those 30 and older (closer in age to the veterans we talk about) seem to think it is time for some retooling. I for example, am 42. Same age as Nick. I think he should retire. Yet those 15+ years younger thing he should stay for another year or 2. Kinda interesting in some ways.

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From what I gather, based on this forum, others and the various PM I get, there is very much a generational divide when it comes to the Wings. Those that are in the late 20's and younger, the ones who grew up during all of the success, seem to think everything is fine, and the good times will never end. Those 30 and older (closer in age to the veterans we talk about) seem to think it is time for some retooling. I for example, am 42. Same age as Nick. I think he should retire. Yet those 15+ years younger thing he should stay for another year or 2. Kinda interesting in some ways.

So Holland,Babcock,Trotz... are the adolescents I guess :hehe:

Frozen-Man and number9 like this

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Actually, now that I understand what you where trying to say, it proves my point. If dat was at 125% scoring in 2008 and is at 95% scoring in 2012, that is a 30% DECLINE! Not to mention he is playing fewer and fewer games each year. In 08 and 09 Dat had 97 points. he played 82 games in 08 and 81 games in 09. Now he is down to the mid and lower 70's in games played. So thanks for making my point.

OMG you are crazy and know nothing about the NHL if you think anywhere in the 70s for amount of games played is bad.

95% scoring percentage is nothing to frown about...we all should be jumping for joy because most players will never even dream of hitting that....its amazing that even at 30% decline from 5 years ago hes still barely below 100%....his numbers are also way more consistent than almost every other elite forward in the league (most shift way more than 30% across 5 years) . In 2007/2008 and 2008/2009 we also had a much more complete and well rounded team....If we had those teams every year around Dats he could probably go beyond 125% on an up year.

Ovechkin

2007/2008 = 136%

2011/2012 = 83%

decline of 53%

^ Whoa! By the looks of it Ovi is old and washed up like you think Dats is! Caps better trade him cause hes going nowhere but down. He's certainly not one of the top 5 players in league anymore or anytime soon! (sarcasm)

Kovalchuk

2007/2008 = 110%

2010/2011 = 74%

decline of 36%

^ Kovy is younger than Dats and decreased by 6% more over a shorter time span!... but wait look what happened this year!

2011/2102 = 107%

^ He's back up to his old numbers!

Lets look at a guy older than Dats shall we!

Selanne

2007/2008 = 88%

2010/2011 = 109%

^ Holy crap! At an age older than Dats he increased his numbers by 21%!!!.....but look what happened this year...

2011/2012 = 80%

^ The whole team had a bad year and he's down to 80%! :(

Lets look at the top 2 forwards in each of the final four teams....

Kopitar

2011/2012 = 92%

M. Richards

2011/2012 = 59%

Gaborik

2011/2012 = 92%

B. Richards

2011/2012 = 80%

Kovalchuk

2011/2012 = 107%

Parise

2011/2012 = 84%

Whitney

2011/2012 = 93%

Vrbata

2011/2012 = 80%

By your logic none of these teams should still be in the playoffs.....The only one who did better than Datsyuk this year is Kovy and as we both know Kovy plays terrible defense compared to Dats and he's wayyyyyyy overpaid compared to Dats. All those players play worse D than Dats (besides M. Richards, but he only hit 59%)....And most are paid more than Dats.... problem is not Dats. Maybe we should just put the right pieces around him like we did in 07/08/09....a sniper like Hossa and/or a strong bottom 6 and allow him to excel again.

Frozen-Man likes this

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Made this handy little spread sheet. it covers the 5 of our top 6 forwards that are signed for next season. has the names, ages, and 3 stats for each year from 2008 through 2012. Those stats are: GP=games played, PTS=points, and shts=shoots on goal. Black numbers are no change or improved, red numbers are declines.

Name----Age--------------------2008 2009 2010 2011 2012

--------------------------------GP PTS shts GP PTS shts GP PTS shts GP PTS shts GP PTS shts

Zetterberg--32-------------75 92 358 77 73 309 74 70 309 80 80 306 82 69 267

Datsyk----34---------------- 82 97 264 81 97 248 80 70 203 56 59 137 70 67 164

Franzen----33---------------72 38 199 71 59 246 27 21 91 76 55 248 77 56 211

Burtuzzi----37---------------68 40 121 66 44 127 82 44 216 81 45 138 71 38 118

Cleary---34------------------63 42 177 74 40 163 64 34 140 68 46 192 75 33 199

Now for some follow up. Of the 15 numbers for each player, dat has 9 reds. meaning he is declinging just about every year, in just about every catagory. it would be worse but his numbers this year are improved over 2011 when he was hurt. But his 2012 numbers are worse than his 2010 numbers. Second in red numbers is Z. he has 7 out of 15 in red. Cleary has 6 out 15 in red. Burt also has 6 out of 15 in red. franzen has declined the fewest times. Only 5 red numbers. The number that stands out to me the most, is dat's decline in shots. In 2008 he took 264 shots. Then followed by 248, 203, 137, and finally 164 this past year. Granted he played 12 fewer games, but he had 103 fewer shots! That is a 38% drop!

None of us want to se a bad RW team. We all want to win Cups every year. But we also have to face facts. The fact is we need to find our next pair of great forwards that can lead us for the next 10 years. We started this run with Yzerman and federov, then continued it with dat and Z. No where in our organization do we have 2 guys that are potential 80 point per year guys. This is Holland's big challenge. Do we trade? Sign FA's? move up in the draft somewhere?

My personnel opinion is they need to be C's. A wing by himself can't do it. A good sniper-like parise is, can't score if no one can get him the puck. One last thing. Please understand the difference between good and great. dat and Z are still good players. They are not great players anymore. They will continue to work hard, provide leadership, and score 60 to 75 points for a few more years. But they are not guys that can carry a team anymore. help carry yes, but we have to find the next pair to do the heavy lifting.

Chart was fixed, loaded poorly.....

So you have proven that you flunked statistics 101. What a load of crap. All of your number are totals i.e. total points, total goals, etc. So lets's look at Datsyuk. He missed alot of games this year due to injury. As a result he gets a "red" mark in points, shots, goals, etc. because his totals are down and all of his totals are down for the year because of injury. From this you conclude that he is declining. And who cares about having individual players that put up great numbers. It's a team sport and the Wings were once again near the top of the league in scoring.

Fail.

number9 likes this

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So you have proven that you flunked statistics 101. What a load of crap. All of your number are totals i.e. total points, total goals, etc. So lets's look at Datsyuk. He missed alot of games this year due to injury. As a result he gets a "red" mark in points, shots, goals, etc. because his totals are down and all of his totals are down for the year because of injury. From this you conclude that he is declining. And who cares about having individual players that put up great numbers. It's a team sport and the Wings were once again near the top of the league in scoring.

Fail.

Bingo!

Ally likes this

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