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kerism17

My Trade Proposal

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lol...you are so wrong on so many levels i dont know where to start. you do realize that at age 25 ryan has 136 goals in the nhl and franzen has scored 14 more goals at age 32???? lets not forget that 5 came from 1 game! :)

franzens career year at age 32 was 58 points which is 13 points less then ryan's career year of 71 points. the problem here is ryan is 7 years younger and will only be getting better for the next few years whereas franzen's game has only declined. by the time ryan is franzen's age, im pretty sure he'll have more then 150 goals.

at age 25 ryan's "s*** year", his 4th full season in the nhl, he became just the fourth player since the lockout to hit 30 goals in 4 straight seasons. kovalchuk, kessel, iginla are the other 3 but thats probably because of his ice time, right?

the difference between ryan and franzen? one player has about 100x more potential, possibility to become elite, 100x greater work ethic, HEART, A BETTER nose for the net, a more consistent track record, hell, even better numbers yet is 7 years younger... if you really think the only difference between these two players is age then you just apparently haven't watched ryan play.

im sorry bro... franzen just isnt that good. his value to you is WAYYYYYY higher then the value any other team would put on him. not saying teams wouldnt want him because somebody would, but to compare him to bobby ryan is so wrong its not even funny.... and it HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ICE TIME

Most star hockey players had their best seasons before they were 25.

You sure like your stats here's one for you, Franzen has way more Playoff production and a much better PPG in the playoffs. And I already mentioned Ryan gets more ice time thn Franzen always playing with the very best teammates. Here's another stat Franzen has a much better winning percentage in games he has played in

Don't get me wrong, I would trade Franzen for Ryan and throw somebody in (not Nyquist) but the biggest difference between them is age and durabilty, otherwise they are very similar players. It's just that Franzen plays for the Wings and so many people here are grass is greener on the other side and the glass is half empty kinda people.

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Most star hockey players had their best seasons before they were 25.

You sure like your stats here's one for you, Franzen has way more Playoff production and a much better PPG in the playoffs. And I already mentioned Ryan gets more ice time thn Franzen always playing with the very best teammates. Here's another stat Franzen has a much better winning percentage in games he has played in

Don't get me wrong, I would trade Franzen for Ryan and throw somebody in (not Nyquist) but the biggest difference between them is age and durabilty, otherwise they are very similar players. It's just that Franzen plays for the Wings and so many people here are grass is greener on the other side and the glass is half empty kinda people.

I disagree with the whole bold part of your post, A lot of the best seasons under 25 I can think of were from the 1980s when goal scoring was way up and by extension the players who were under 25 had inflated totals. If you set scoring equal over all seasons Joe Sakic's best season well when he was in his late 30s. Jagr and Thortons 2005-06 stats while not career years compared to the average goal per game of the league were among their best seasons of their careers. Just because you see the freaks (Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux) having their 'best seasons' before 25 take all factors into account.

A short list of players who when adjusted to league averages had their best seasons at or after 25:

Datsyuk

Zetterberg

Jagr

Sakic

Bertuzzi

Lidstrom

Naslund

Howe

Heatly

I could go on forever but I think you get my point.

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I disagree with the whole bold part of your post, A lot of the best seasons under 25 I can think of were from the 1980s when goal scoring was way up and by extension the players who were under 25 had inflated totals. If you set scoring equal over all seasons Joe Sakic's best season well when he was in his late 30s. Jagr and Thortons 2005-06 stats while not career years compared to the average goal per game of the league were among their best seasons of their careers. Just because you see the freaks (Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux) having their 'best seasons' before 25 take all factors into account.

A short list of players who when adjusted to league averages had their best seasons at or after 25:

Datsyuk

Zetterberg

Jagr

Sakic

Bertuzzi

Lidstrom

Naslund

Howe

Heatly

I could go on forever but I think you get my point.

I think Ryan is a good as he will be, Franzen of course is in the twilight of his prime or already surpassed it but you never know with the science of conditioning and nutrition these days.. I do think Ryan is a lil better but I woudn trade Franzen and some of the other guys mentioned to get him like Filppula, Nyquist, or Smith. Ryan is a bigger hit against the cap.

Part of the reason that Ryan's stats appear a lil better (other than ice-time) is that he plays with the Duck's best all the time and they don't play as tight defensively as the Wings.

Do you think all the Capitals simultaneously declined the past 2 years?

There is a lot more to production than a players ability to produce and the effort they put in.

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Some combination of Franzen/Filppula/Nyquist/Smith/1st rounder for Perry.

:blink: Wow! Overpayment for sure.... +1 for outbidding 28 other GM's!

I would definitely like Perry here as well. I would trade Franzen, Stuart (rights) and DET 2013 1st rounder for Perry and Schultz (rights.) (of course as long as Quincey signs elsewhere and we get those 2013 picks for him.)

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Most star hockey players had their best seasons before they were 25.

You sure like your stats here's one for you, Franzen has way more Playoff production and a much better PPG in the playoffs. And I already mentioned Ryan gets more ice time thn Franzen always playing with the very best teammates. Here's another stat Franzen has a much better winning percentage in games he has played in

Don't get me wrong, I would trade Franzen for Ryan and throw somebody in (not Nyquist) but the biggest difference between them is age and durabilty, otherwise they are very similar players. It's just that Franzen plays for the Wings and so many people here are grass is greener on the other side and the glass is half empty kinda people.

I disagree with you as well. It all depends on the position too. Defensemen usually hit their primes later then forwards. Of course there is always exceptions, like very high end draft picks, but that is for all positions. But if you look at/take your average player they usually hit there primes later on. Defensemen I would say its usually 28-34 is the "prime" of their careers. Forwards usually a little earlier, maybe 25-31. Again this isn't in black and white but to say 25 then they decline is a little harsh; star players or not. Then goalies are even different. For them the age is higher as well I would even push the age further there, say 30-36. Hell, a lot of players don't even get a legit chance until 24-26 years of age.

EDIT: Also, with my age ranges is the "prime" of their careers. Years after doesn't technically mean they are done or aren't productive. The age range given is just when they tend to play their best hockey. Many players, especially nowadays exceed that age and continue to play and produce at a older age.

Edited by Hockey13Playa

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:blink: Wow! Overpayment for sure.... +1 for outbidding 28 other GM's!

I would definitely like Perry here as well. I would trade Franzen, Stuart (rights) and DET 2013 1st rounder for Perry and Schultz (rights.) (of course as long as Quincey signs elsewhere and we get those 2013 picks for him.)

not nearly enough. here's why:

Schultz UFA rights = Stuart UFA rights (we all agree)

Franzen + late 1st does not even come close to Perry. Gonna need to add... I'd part with Tatar at this point but still needs more added...

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not nearly enough. here's why:

Schultz UFA rights = Stuart UFA rights (we all agree)

Franzen + late 1st does not even come close to Perry. Gonna need to add... I'd part with Tatar at this point but still needs more added...

agreed...throw the extra 3rd in there along with another player/mid level prospect.

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:blink: Wow! Overpayment for sure....

Well, wasn't putting a whole lot of thought into it - because the ultimate point (on which we can all agree) is it'd cost something near-astronomical to land him. I'd love, love, love for him to be a Wing, but it's not gonna happen. (Not by way of trade, at least....)

If we're gonna trade for a legitimate power-forward type, we should go for Lucic. He's having a rough go of it; we could probably snag him for something not entirely ridiculous.

Edited by Dabura

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I think it is so funny that so many people think we need to score more but are so anxious to get rid of our top 2 goal scorers. And people mention getting Ryan or somebody with some size and/or toughness and suggest getting rid of Franzen in the same post, which would mean that we aren't getting any bigger by getting a big guy and giving up one.

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I think it is so funny that so many people think we need to score more but are so anxious to get rid of our top 2 goal scorers. And people mention getting Ryan or somebody with some size and/or toughness and suggest getting rid of Franzen in the same post, which would mean that we aren't getting any bigger by getting a big guy and giving up one.

On paper what you are saying makes sense. But Franzen doesn't play 80 games like a guy 6-3/220. he does for 20 games or so and the other 60 games he plays like an 70 year old grandmother.

not nearly enough. here's why:

Schultz UFA rights = Stuart UFA rights (we all agree)

Franzen + late 1st does not even come close to Perry. Gonna need to add... I'd part with Tatar at this point but still needs more added...

Perry will get cheaper everyday we get closer to the trade deadline. he is a UFA they can't keep (IMHO). so they will move him.

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On paper what you are saying makes sense. But Franzen doesn't play 80 games like a guy 6-3/220. he does for 20 games or so and the other 60 games he plays like an 70 year old grandmother.

s*** forgot we were making unfair evaluations. i always f*** up.

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I think it is so funny that so many people think we need to score more but are so anxious to get rid of our top 2 goal scorers. And people mention getting Ryan or somebody with some size and/or toughness and suggest getting rid of Franzen in the same post, which would mean that we aren't getting any bigger by getting a big guy and giving up one.

Wow a guy that plays like a 70 yr old grandmother for 3/4 of a season and still leads the 7th highest scoring team in goals, that must have been a hell of a quarter of a season or do you mean a grandmother from the planet Krypton.

I think you suffer from the grass is greener on the other side and the glass is half empty syndrome, you would probably feel the same way about whoever you are advocating for the Wings to get if he played for the Wings and you didn't advocate to get him

number9 likes this

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Well, wasn't putting a whole lot of thought into it - because the ultimate point (on which we can all agree) is it'd cost something near-astronomical to land him. I'd love, love, love for him to be a Wing, but it's not gonna happen. (Not by way of trade, at least....)

If we're gonna trade for a legitimate power-forward type, we should go for Lucic. He's having a rough go of it; we could probably snag him for something not entirely ridiculous.

I would love to have Lucic but i think it would cost something near-astronomical to get him too. Perry will probablyl be a UFA nxt year and there are many more that could be that offer a good combination of size, toughness, skill and hockey acumen

Iginla

Malhotra

Burrows

Lapierre

Edler

Brouwer

Hartnell

Jordan Staal

Horton

Lupul

Clowe

Stallberg

Getzlaf

Perry

Neil

A.Stewart

J Harrison

Morrow

Svitov

But we might not have any cap space to get any of them and if it was up to most of the people here we woudn't

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I've heard Boston is considering moving Lucic. The Powers That Be feel he's a playoff bust, or something. That's why I think the price for him wouldn't be near-astronomical. Whereas the Ducks couldn't be more attached to Corey Perry (and for good reason).

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Wow a guy that plays like a 70 yr old grandmother for 3/4 of a season and still leads the 7th highest scoring team in goals, that must have been a hell of a quarter of a season or do you mean a grandmother from the planet Krypton.

I think you suffer from the grass is greener on the other side and the glass is half empty syndrome, you would probably feel the same way about whoever you are advocating for the Wings to get if he played for the Wings and you didn't advocate to get him

You can disagree all you want, but that doesn't change the fact it is true. Franzen gets hot for 15-25 games every year and score 50% or more of his goals in that time frame. the rest of the year he just floats around the ice like he doesn't even care. yes when hot he is one of the best around. But on the other hand, this a guy who after 8 + seasons has never had a single 60 point season. What was he lat=st year? 96th overall in scoring IIRC. I understand that scoring comes and goes. Most scorers are streaky. But that does not excuse the lake of hustle, skating hard, checking, and playing D the rest of the time. When hot Franzen does all of thsoe things. When he isn't he does none of them.

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You can disagree all you want, but that doesn't change the fact it is true. Franzen gets hot for 15-25 games every year and score 50% or more of his goals in that time frame. the rest of the year he just floats around the ice like he doesn't even care. yes when hot he is one of the best around. But on the other hand, this a guy who after 8 + seasons has never had a single 60 point season. What was he lat=st year? 96th overall in scoring IIRC. I understand that scoring comes and goes. Most scorers are streaky. But that does not excuse the lake of hustle, skating hard, checking, and playing D the rest of the time. When hot Franzen does all of thsoe things. When he isn't he does none of them.

Franzen was actually 69th in scoring and he only scored 1 point less than Ryan despite playing 5 games less and getting less ice-time per game. You would probably feel the same way about Ryan if he played on your team but he doesn't and the grass is greener on the other side

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You can disagree all you want, but that doesn't change the fact it is true. Franzen gets hot for 15-25 games every year and score 50% or more of his goals in that time frame. the rest of the year he just floats around the ice like he doesn't even care. yes when hot he is one of the best around. But on the other hand, this a guy who after 8 + seasons has never had a single 60 point season. What was he lat=st year? 96th overall in scoring IIRC. I understand that scoring comes and goes. Most scorers are streaky. But that does not excuse the lake of hustle, skating hard, checking, and playing D the rest of the time. When hot Franzen does all of thsoe things. When he isn't he does none of them.

Listen, it's no secret I do not like Franzen...you point out he has never topped 60 points. Considering his cap hit of $3.9M, 60 points is on point for that salary. BUT, Franzen, for some reason, is always consider our BEST scorer, our sniper, our go to guy. He is not. He is a 2nd or 3rd line center benefiting by playing with IMO the best player in the NHL in Datsyuk. If I can accept Franzen for what he is, then you can too.

The problem is, he is expected to be all I described because we don't have any of those...We don't have a BEST scorer on the team, or a sniper or the go to guy. Datsyuk is the go to guy, but mostly for making plays, he needs the #1 Sniper/Scorer/Go To Guy to score the goals... If playing with Datsyuk, Franzen still cannot top 60 points, there is no way he should be even considered as a #1 scorer here and at $3.9M, he shouldn't be by any of us...

Is he lazy? Yes...is the contract too long? Yes...Would I still shop him around? Absolutely! But if Holland gets his #1 man to play with Datsyuk and pop in 40-50 goals, Franzen can go back to being secondary scoring and when he nets his 50-60 points, nobody will complain anymore...ok, well, some will, probably me, but at least he won't be expected to be our "Sniper" anymore and by only putting in 55 points on the 2nd or 3rd line, maybe he won't seem so lazy anymore...who knows, with the pressure off a bit, maybe he'll top 30 goals and start having fun again...

Franzen at 60 points @ $3.9M is good

Franzen at 60 points @ $7.5M :puke:

Take him for what he is...he is not a sniper, he is not getting paid like a sniper, this team NEEDS a real sniper, and it seems like they willing to throw out $8M or more to get one! Fingers crossed...get er done Kenny! Get er Done!

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Why would the Isles give up the picks (probable top 5 overall) when there are a bunch of UFA d-men available.

only 1 reason, their team's management is beyond terrible.

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