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InKennyWeTrust

The Grass Is Always Greener - Johan Franzen

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If he's paid to be a power forward, that only bolsters the argument that he's not working hard enough.

Lucic is a power forward. Simmonds is developing into a power forward. Franzen is big and can score, but he's not nearly physical enough to be called a power forward.

Lucic and Franzen both have 4 million dollar cap hits. Lucic is $100,000 more, but I digress.....

Lucic: 26 goals and 35 assists in 81 games

Franzen: 29 goals and 27 assists in 77 games

Interesting how they have the same numbers from production, and get paid the same. Would I rather have Lucic? I have a feeling the drones on this forum would ***** about him as well.

As for Simmonds, he is paid $3.5 million for lower numbers, but he has a high upswing if things continue to go his way.

Point is that you haven't shown me a "power forward" that is doing better than Franzen for the same cap hit.

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Lucic and Franzen both have 4 million dollar cap hits. Lucic is $100,000 more, but I digress.....

Lucic: 26 goals and 35 assists in 81 games

Franzen: 29 goals and 27 assists in 77 games

Interesting how they have the same numbers from production, and get paid the same. Would I rather have Lucic? I have a feeling the drones on this forum would ***** about him as well.

As for Simmonds, he is paid $3.5 million for lower numbers, but he has a high upswing if things continue to go his way.

Point is that you haven't shown me a "power forward" that is doing better than Franzen for the same cap hit.

Hockey isn't just about scoring goals, I'm sure Howard would love not having the puck in his zone 70% of the game.

Franzen is just not consistently winning battles along the boards, using his body, and backchecking. I don't see why people are trying to defend Frazen, it's clear as day that his effort level is not always there.

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In the top-6:

Parise - Datsyuk - Franzen/Doan

Filppula - Zetterberg - Doan/Franzen

OR

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Franzen/Doan

Parise - Filppula - Doan/Franzen

On the 3rd line:

Parise - Datsyuk - Bertuzzi

Filppula - Zetterberg - Doan

Franzen - Helm - Cleary

In a package for Dan Girardi:

Franzen + blahblahblah FOR Girardi

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Lucic and Franzen both have 4 million dollar cap hits. Lucic is $100,000 more, but I digress.....

Lucic: 26 goals and 35 assists in 81 games

Franzen: 29 goals and 27 assists in 77 games

Interesting how they have the same numbers from production, and get paid the same. Would I rather have Lucic? I have a feeling the drones on this forum would ***** about him as well.

As for Simmonds, he is paid $3.5 million for lower numbers, but he has a high upswing if things continue to go his way.

Point is that you haven't shown me a "power forward" that is doing better than Franzen for the same cap hit.

The exact point was that they put up similar production to Franzen and are two actual power forwards.

Both Lucic and Simmonds play physical, fight, and score. Franzen floats and scores. He is in no way a power forward.

And Simmonds is 23 years old and Lucic is 24 years old, so they're likely not at their full potential. Remind me how was Mule at 23?

Hockey isn't just about scoring goals, I'm sure Howard would love not having the puck in his zone 70% of the game.

Franzen is just not consistently winning battles along the boards, using his body, and backchecking. I don't see why people are trying to defend Frazen, it's clear as day that his effort level is not always there.

Exactly.

I don't think anyone is saying we don't need the goal scoring he does provide. It's the lack of effort he displays some nights.

The babcock quote earlier in the thread sums it up well.

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Lucic and Franzen both have 4 million dollar cap hits. Lucic is $100,000 more, but I digress.....

Lucic: 26 goals and 35 assists in 81 games

Franzen: 29 goals and 27 assists in 77 games

Interesting how they have the same numbers from production, and get paid the same. Would I rather have Lucic? I have a feeling the drones on this forum would ***** about him as well.

As for Simmonds, he is paid $3.5 million for lower numbers, but he has a high upswing if things continue to go his way.

Point is that you haven't shown me a "power forward" that is doing better than Franzen for the same cap hit.

This has done nothing to prove Franzen is a power forward. We all know he can score goals -- that isn't the debate here. It's the manner in which Franzen scores those goals and what he isn't willing to do to establish himself as a real power forward. Stats aren't going to prove the argument. All you need to do is watch Franzen's effort on the ice.

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If he's paid to be a power forward, that only bolsters the argument that he's not working hard enough.

Lucic is a power forward. Simmonds is developing into a power forward. Franzen is big and can score, but he's not nearly physical enough to be called a power forward.

Calling Franzen a power forward is an insult to true power forwards.

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This has done nothing to prove Franzen is a power forward. We all know he can score goals -- that isn't the debate here. It's the manner in which Franzen scores those goals and what he isn't willing to do to establish himself as a real power forward. Stats aren't going to prove the argument. All you need to do is watch Franzen's effort on the ice.

So if Franzen fought, drove to the net, and scored the same amount of goals, there would be no issue?

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So if Franzen fought, drove to the net, and scored the same amount of goals, there would be no issue?

Those things would ultimately lead to more goals. Franzen isn't going to fight ever, nor should he. There are other ways to be physical, including using your size to forecheck hard and wear on an opponents defense. Franzen doesn't drive the net enough to complement his great shot.

The point is if Franzen did more of the things most people here feel he is capable of on a consistent basis, there is potential for him to become a more well-rounded player. He scored 29 goals, but he also plays with Pavel Datsyuk. That helps cover up even more for Franzen's lackadaisical efforts most nights.

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So basically if we got another top forward and moved people around, not only will Johan score more goals, the others will also?

Edited by Rivalred

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Those things would ultimately lead to more goals. Franzen isn't going to fight ever, nor should he. There are other ways to be physical, including using your size to forecheck hard and wear on an opponents defense. Franzen doesn't drive the net enough to complement his great shot.

The point is if Franzen did more of the things most people here feel he is capable of on a consistent basis, there is potential for him to become a more well-rounded player. He scored 29 goals, but he also plays with Pavel Datsyuk. That helps cover up even more for Franzen's lackadaisical efforts most nights.

People here are kissing Lucic and Simmond's asses, saying they drive to the net, fight, and are better. Yet, their stats are the same as is their payroll cap hit.

So your answer is, if Franzen drove to the net and fought but scored the same amount of goals, you would be ok with it because he could possible score more if he did? He could also possibly be out with injury more often too.

Sorry, but I just don't subscribe to that method of thinking. Do I think that Franzen could use that size more to his advantage? Yes. I believe he could be a better player, but at the same time, I think that many of the people here have unrealistic expectations of "power forwards". I know that if Lucic and Simmonds were playing here, the LGW forum members would be calling for them to score more, even though they drive to the net, fight, and so on. Hell, no player is off limits to the LGW trolls. Even Lidstrom was a whipping boy recently until he retired to some people. There really is no pleasing this crowd.

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So with that line of thinking, Babcock is considered a LGW troll?

I agree it's difficult to please everyone especially on an internet forum, but when your own coach is asking for a more consistent effort then you know it's not just irrational fans.

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People here are kissing Lucic and Simmond's asses, saying they drive to the net, fight, and are better. Yet, their stats are the same as is their payroll cap hit.

So your answer is, if Franzen drove to the net and fought but scored the same amount of goals, you would be ok with it because he could possible score more if he did? He could also possibly be out with injury more often too.

Sorry, but I just don't subscribe to that method of thinking. Do I think that Franzen could use that size more to his advantage? Yes. I believe he could be a better player, but at the same time, I think that many of the people here have unrealistic expectations of "power forwards". I know that if Lucic and Simmonds were playing here, the LGW forum members would be calling for them to score more, even though they drive to the net, fight, and so on. Hell, no player is off limits to the LGW trolls. Even Lidstrom was a whipping boy recently until he retired to some people. There really is no pleasing this crowd.

Though you didn't quote me I assume you think I'm the one "kissing Simmonds and Lucic's butt" since I'm the one who threw their names out there. Honestly they're just the first two true power forwards who came to mind that had similar production and cost to Franzen.

To be clear, Franzen is not a power forward. I don't think anyone really expects him to suddenly turn into one. I was pointing out some examples of actual power forwards.

I don't know how many different ways people can say it but their main problem with Franzen is his lack of consistent effort. That group includes his coach, not just "LGW trolls." No one is talking about his talent or the goals he does score. It's his clear talent that makes it frustrating.

And lets' not get overly dramatic here. When exactly was Lidstrom a whipping boy? A few negative posts about him does not make him a whipping boy.

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