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Sacrifice the full season to guarantee Bettman's removal?

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Sacrifice the full season to guarantee Bettman's removal?   103 members have voted

  1. 1. Sacrifice the full season to guarantee Bettman's removal?

    • yes
      58
    • no
      35

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188 posts in this topic

You fail to take into account that Illitch does not lose money on the wings, the last 5 years or so his "losing" franchise was in the top 5 revenue teams every year.

Also it could be more than that if the best owner in all of sports wouldn't have th share the revenue wth failed franchises or pay for a effing undersized anti hockeyguy.

The players hired Fehr to get a fair deal no offer from the NHL has been close to that.

I'd say however long it takes if some OWNER created problems and this atrocious commissioner are removed its well worth it.

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Also it could be more than that if the best owner in all of sports wouldn't have th share the revenue wth failed franchises or pay for a effing undersized anti hockeyguy.

The players hired Fehr to get a fair deal no offer from the NHL has been close to that.

I'd say however long it takes if some OWNER created problems and this atrocious commissioner are removed its well worth it.

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Fair meaning well over what their employers are making and well over what they are really worth? Yeah sounds real fair. And Owners have Bettman in there to make sure that the players don't get too greedy and it seems to be working.
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Fair meaning well over what their employers are making and well over what they are really worth? Yeah sounds real fair. And Owners have Bettman in there to make sure that the players don't get too greedy and it seems to be working.

Look at the contracts and then you'll see how much both sides thought they were worth. Players are the product simple as that and don't even start talking about greedy when a bunch of billionaires want to cry poor and a damn midget making more than 90 % of the players is asking for a reduced salary while his own won't be touched.

But whatever having so much fun watching the Swiss league and a bunch of locked out players over there.

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The NHL definitely can support 30 franchises, they just need to be in hockey locations.

Make the following relocations:

Phoenix --> Quebec (instant rivalry with Habs)

Islanders --> Brooklyn (rumoured)

Devils --> Seattle (instant rivalry with Canucks)

Florida --> Saskatoon (the city itself and surrounding areas could support a team...the Jets are sold out for 5 years with a comparable population I believe)

Not sure what other teams are horribly cash strapped, but Hamilton, Ontario and Markham, Ontario could support teams and they would both be top 10 profit margin in the league.

Its easy to talk about moving more teams to Canada now that the CAD dollar is worth more than the American one but 12 years ago it was the American teams carrying the Canadian ones. We cant relocate franchises with the economy. Until the NHL gets a nice TV deal we have to ride the the highs and lows and get by.

Without teams in the South there will be no big TV deal. Why would a major network pay big bucks to have 65% of the US population not even care?

Edited by UP2HERE

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Fair meaning well over what their employers are making and well over what they are really worth? Yeah sounds real fair. And Owners have Bettman in there to make sure that the players don't get too greedy and it seems to be working.

Do you have a link to this claim you keep making that the players are making well over what their employers do?

Getting 57% of HRR is not the same as them making more money than the owners. It means they get 57% of the portion of the revenue that they've defined as hockey related.

And they actually are making less than they are really worth because the existing hard cap prevents the top players from getting paid their full market value. Plus there's the whole escrow thing too.

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Do you have a link to this claim you keep making that the players are making well over what their employers do?

Getting 57% of HRR is not the same as them making more money than the owners. It means they get 57% of the portion of the revenue that they've defined as hockey related.

And they actually are making less than they are really worth because the existing hard cap prevents the top players from getting paid their full market value. Plus there's the whole escrow thing too.

I use the same links that you guys use that say that it's all Bettmans fault and the NHLPA are just the victims in all of this.

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Its easy to talk about moving more teams to Canada now that the CAD dollar is worth more than the American one but 12 years ago it was the American teams carrying the Canadian ones. We cant relocate franchises with the economy. Until the NHL gets a nice TV deal we have to ride the the highs and lows and get by.

Without teams in the South there will be no big TV deal. Why would a major network pay big bucks to have 65% of the US population not even care?

Not the TV deal again. You know the Canadian $ had to do with economics but this thing here is about fanbase and hockey markets. Something that can not be fixed.

The NHL tried and failed simple as that count the losses and try real hockeymarkets.

You can't cry poor while sitting on billions and investing millions to support failed franchises. You thing the NBC guys do care abou that? They want good ratings and hockeymarkets such as Hamilton, QC porovide exactly that.

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Not the TV deal again. You know the Canadian $ had to do with economics but this thing here is about fanbase and hockey markets. Something that can not be fixed.

The NHL tried and failed simple as that count the losses and try real hockeymarkets.

You can't cry poor while sitting on billions and investing millions to support failed franchises. You thing the NBC guys do care abou that? They want good ratings and hockeymarkets such as Hamilton, QC porovide exactly that.

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Each NFL team gets roughly 160 million each from their TV deal. The MLB and NBA are a little more complicated because each team gets some national money and some local money but the average is somewhere around 40- 50 million each. Each NHL team gets about 6 million.

Like it or not theres no big TV money without the southern population of the United States. Why would NBC show hockey games in Phoenix (6th Largest Market in the US), Los Angeles (2nd Largest Market in the US), Houston (4th Largest Market in the US), Dallas (9th Largest Market in the US) etc. if there are no teams there for anyone to care about? It doesnt make any business sense. The big TV money allows the game to grow and withstand some of the highs and lows. If the Canadian dollar was still .65 on the US dollar like it was 12 years ago do you think we would have a team in Winnipeg right now? The answer is no. How do we know the Canadian dollar wont revert back to that?

Were already seeing the affects of having Southern US teams, there are players from Texas and California in the league and coming up in the league. Thats good for hockey and there will be some pain along the way but we cant just abandon the idea.

Edit: I assume you would consider Minnesota a traditional hockey market. They lost money in 2010-2011 which shows its not all about the market.

Edited by UP2HERE

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I use the same links that you guys use that say that it's all Bettmans fault and the NHLPA are just the victims in all of this.

Care to quote one of my posts where I've said that?

So the whole premise to your argument is something that you made up.

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Each NFL team gets roughly 160 million each from their TV deal. The MLB and NBA are a little more complicated because each team gets some national money and some local money but the average is somewhere around 40- 50 million each. Each NHL team gets about 6 million.

Like it or not theres no big TV money without the southern population of the United States. Why would NBC show hockey games in Phoenix (6th Largest Market in the US), Los Angeles (2nd Largest Market in the US), Houston (4th Largest Market in the US), Dallas (9th Largest Market in the US) etc. if there are no teams there for anyone to care about? It doesnt make any business sense. The big TV money allows the game to grow and withstand some of the highs and lows. If the Canadian dollar was still .65 on the US dollar like it was 12 years ago do you think we would have a team in Winnipeg right now? The answer is no. How do we know the Canadian dollar wont revert back to that?

Were already seeing the affects of having Southern US teams, there are players from Texas and California in the league and coming up in the league. Thats good for hockey and there will be some pain along the way but we cant just abandon the idea.

Edit: I assume you would consider Minnesota a traditional hockey market. They lost money in 2010-2011 which shows its not all about the market.

Personally I'd rather have a league with fewer teams, no salary cap and no work stoppage every 5 years.

Well they've lost money because of the on ice product and owning a hockey club is a longtime investment. You don't see a guy like Pegula whining...

The NHL could just wipe out the floor or make it 26 % so the so called poor teams can wont be forced to overspend but the problem is Bettman and his stupid parity illusion.

You think an original 6 matchup would have had such terrible ratings? I highly doubt that.

Ok the southern teams are a neccessary evil then don't cry about losing money, because there are better options.

The NHL and Bettman created these problems so it is on to them to fix it with their own money. How about the midget paying 50 % of his salary to help out his mickeymouse clubs? The bastard would move them asap before accepting well not surprising if you think about his background.

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Personally I'd rather have a league with fewer teams, no salary cap and no work stoppage every 5 years.

Well they've lost money because of the on ice product and owning a hockey club is a longtime investment. You don't see a guy like Pegula whining...

The NHL could just wipe out the floor or make it 26 % so the so called poor teams can wont be forced to overspend but the problem is Bettman and his stupid parity illusion.

You think an original 6 matchup would have had such terrible ratings? I highly doubt that.

Ok the southern teams are a neccessary evil then don't cry about losing money, because there are better options.

The NHL and Bettman created these problems so it is on to them to fix it with their own money. How about the midget paying 50 % of his salary to help out his mickeymouse clubs? The bastard would move them asap before accepting well not surprising if you think about his background.

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I sure am glad you're not the Commissioner. I can't imagine how many people who love hockey would never be exposed to it because of where they were born or grew up. What an elitist attitude. "You're from Texas/Florida/California, you don't deserve exposure to hockey."

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Personally I'd rather have a league with fewer teams, no salary cap and no work stoppage every 5 years.

Well they've lost money because of the on ice product and owning a hockey club is a longtime investment. You don't see a guy like Pegula whining...

The NHL could just wipe out the floor or make it 26 % so the so called poor teams can wont be forced to overspend but the problem is Bettman and his stupid parity illusion.

You think an original 6 matchup would have had such terrible ratings? I highly doubt that.

Ok the southern teams are a neccessary evil then don't cry about losing money, because there are better options.

The NHL and Bettman created these problems so it is on to them to fix it with their own money. How about the midget paying 50 % of his salary to help out his mickeymouse clubs? The bastard would move them asap before accepting well not surprising if you think about his background.

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Pegula may not be crying yet but I dont think it will be long. The Sabres lost money in 2010-11 and then he increased their payroll from 15th to 4th while keeping ticket prices relatively the same. Its also not like the extra payroll meant many more fans. They drew just under 4000 additional fans after the payroll increase. Most experts beleive the Sabres also lost money in 2011-12.

Edited by UP2HERE

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They want good ratings and hockeymarkets such as Hamilton, QC porovide exactly that.

no it doesn't. it might have high ratings for canda television but that's not where the big money tv deal is at.

FYI, the lowest rated cup finals since the lockout was when ottawa (a candian team was involved). having canadian teams on tv doesn't automatically get you high tv ratings here in the states (which is where the big money tv contract is)

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I sure am glad you're not the Commissioner. I can't imagine how many people who love hockey would never be exposed to it because of where they were born or grew up. What an elitist attitude. "You're from Texas/Florida/California, you don't deserve exposure to hockey."

Ever heard of the OHL, AHL...?

no it doesn't. it might have high ratings for canda television but that's not where the big money tv deal is at.

FYI, the lowest rated cup finals since the lockout was when ottawa (a candian team was involved). having canadian teams on tv doesn't automatically get you high tv ratings here in the states (which is where the big money tv contract is)

Well you have to look at both teams it was Anaheim against Ottawa so everyone knew the outcome when it came down to the ratings.

All I am saying is, if the league wants to keep these teams fine but don't cry if they are losing money without a fanbase and even that can be fixed by completely wiping the floor or lowering it.

Pegula may not be crying yet but I dont think it will be long. The Sabres lost money in 2010-11 and then he increased their payroll from 15th to 4th while keeping ticket prices relatively the same. Its also not like the extra payroll meant many more fans. They drew just under 4000 additional fans after the payroll increase. Most experts beleive the Sabres also lost money in 2011-12.

Pegula like Dolan and the very best owner in all of sports our own Mr. I are against this lockout. Some owners understand that they are going to lose money, they do it because they are fans and are in it for the longrun. At the end of the day if they are doing a good job their team will be worth way more than what they have paid for it.

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Pegula like Dolan and the very best owner in all of sports our own Mr. I are against this lockout. Some owners understand that they are going to lose money, they do it because they are fans and are in it for the longrun. At the end of the day if they are doing a good job their team will be worth way more than what they have paid for it.

I dont see how Pegula could be against the lock-out. His team is losing money despite top 10 attendance and one of the lowest fan cost indexes in the league. He cant raise ticket prices because the economy in Buffalo is crap. Maybe I'm missing something.

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I'd be ok with losing the season. Prospects get another year of development and we get to pass up a season of probable awfulness.

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I'd be ok with losing the season. Prospects get another year of development and we get to pass up a season of probable awfulness.

We also get to pass up a full season of trading away a first round draft pick! :clap:

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I dont see how Pegula could be against the lock-out. His team is losing money despite top 10 attendance and one of the lowest fan cost indexes in the league. He cant raise ticket prices because the economy in Buffalo is crap. Maybe I'm missing something.

If I am remembering it correctly he talked about creating an Illitcg like atmosphere and would be prepared to lose money. I am sure at first Mr. I lost some money too but look at it now -)

Owners like Pegula, Dolan, Mr. I are role models and I bet you none of them is part of the BoG.

At this point I hardly think about things like if the next guy will be better or not, Bettman needs to go in the longrun it will be well worth it.

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If I am remembering it correctly he talked about creating an Illitcg like atmosphere and would be prepared to lose money. I am sure at first Mr. I lost some money too but look at it now -)

Owners like Pegula, Dolan, Mr. I are role models and I bet you none of them is part of the BoG.

At this point I hardly think about things like if the next guy will be better or not, Bettman needs to go in the longrun it will be well worth it.

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And the way these negotiations went Donald Fehr needs to go as well.

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DON"T SPEND MNONEY ON THE NHL UNTIL THIS PIECE OF s*** IS FIRED. THIS LOCKOUT IS AS MUCH YOUR FAULT AS IT IS HIS. HE IS THE WORST THING TO EVER HAPPEN TO THE GAME OF HOCKEY.

HE IS THE EPITOME OF ALL THE BAD THINGS PEOPLE SAY ABOUT LAWYERS AND POLITICIANS. HE IS THE PERFECT EXAMPLE OF THE WORD MACHIAVELLIAN AND A TEXTBOOK CASE OF NAPOLEON COMPLEX

YOU DESERVE THIS AND IF YOU DON'T DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT YOU WILL DESERVE WHATEVER ELSE HE DOES.

ANYBODY BLAMING ANYBODY OTHER THAN BETTMAN AND THE FANS FOR THIS IS WRONG.

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I'm as frustrated about this lockout as anyone, but you might want to step back from the keyboard for a second and take some deep breaths.

Or at the very least take off the caps lock. ;)

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DON"T SPEND MNONEY ON THE NHL UNTIL THIS PIECE OF s*** IS FIRED. THIS LOCKOUT IS AS MUCH YOUR FAULT AS IT IS HIS. HE IS THE WORST THING TO EVER HAPPEN TO THE GAME OF HOCKEY.

HE IS THE EPITOME OF ALL THE BAD THINGS PEOPLE SAY ABOUT LAWYERS AND POLITICIANS. HE IS THE PERFECT EXAMPLE OF THE WORD MACHIAVELLIAN AND A TEXTBOOK CASE OF NAPOLEON COMPLEX

YOU DESERVE THIS AND IF YOU DON'T DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT YOU WILL DESERVE WHATEVER ELSE HE DOES.

ANYBODY BLAMING ANYBODY OTHER THAN BETTMAN AND THE FANS FOR THIS IS WRONG.

My eyes... they are bleeding.

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I'd go for it because Gary Bettman has stunded the growth of this game. The NHL had so much going for it in terms of the future and now that's killed.

With that being said this lockout affects hockey as a whole not just the NHL since with the growing popularity of the NHL that helped hockey in general because you had people get interested in it and would either watch it or go to games e.g. minor league games etc.

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