WingsFan19 5 Report post Posted October 29, 2012 Hello, Below is a link to my second article at the Hockey Writers. This one focuses on the Wings off season moves. http://thehockeywriters.com/red-wings-off-season-i-give-them-an-a/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
esteef 2,679 Report post Posted October 29, 2012 Well, right now they are tied for first in the league. esteef Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sleepwalker 512 Report post Posted October 29, 2012 Well, right now they are tied for first in the league. esteef Lol, I was going to post the same thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rrasco 1,312 Report post Posted October 29, 2012 They're also tied for last. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RedWingsDad Report post Posted October 29, 2012 Good article. I agree with all of your points. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WingsFan19 5 Report post Posted October 29, 2012 Thanks Red Wings Dad I also love the post that they are tied for both first and last. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 5,131 Report post Posted October 29, 2012 Alot of us agree that they did very well this offseason despite missing out on the TOP free agents... I really wanted Suter and was neither here nor there with Parise....but oh well... Holland tired and made it pubically known that he tried for all the "top" targeted guys...Suter, Parise, Shultz...which in years past he either didn't try or didn't make it known that he tried...he would just say "we kicked the tires and liked what we had..." Well I said it before and I will say it again, he kicked the s*** out of those tires this year, I give him an A for trying... The guys he did get address thier needs, the guys they already had will play a huge role this season and for pete's sake we finally have no Hudler on this team!!!! Besides there is always the post lockout fire sale that may go on too...you never know who Franzen is gonna get us when that starts! 1 Rick D reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shaman 713 Report post Posted October 29, 2012 Lost too much depth to be an A off season, its a D+/C- off season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 5,131 Report post Posted October 29, 2012 Lost too much depth to be an A off season, its a D+/C- off season. Lost too much depth? We lost Lidstrom (who is unreplacable) and Stuart... Replaced with Quincey, Smith and Colaiacovo... those three more than replace Staurt...again, you cannot replace Lidstrom, nort even with Suter... up front we lost Hudler, Holmstrom and will probably lose two of Miller/Eaves/Mursak/Emmerton...replaced with Tootoo, Sammy, Brunner a full time Nyquist and long term Helm and Abby...GRR has nice depth to fill injuries... We lost the revolving door of a back up to Howard and gained a legit #2 in the Monster. I give Holland an A for trying to land all the top talent in the UFA market, all in all, I give the off season a B+ considering that with the exception of Lidstrom, everyone that was signed was an upgrade to the folks we lost.... The only thing I would change is I would have shopped around Franzine, but who knows, maybe he did that too! Lidstrom = Unreplacable Quincey/Smith better than Stuart Colaiacovo better than Commie and Kindl still #7 Sammy better than Hudler Nyquist better than Holmstrom Tootoo better than any "tough" guy since Downey Helm and Abby here long term....and happy to be! Gustavsson better than Conklin/MacDonald combined. not to even mention the awesome draft Holland had! He went big and skilled and tough, everything we have been bitching at him to do for years! Get this CBA taken care of, sign Dekeyser after his senior year is up, trade Emmy/Mursak/Kindl for some picks and lets get this thing rolling! If the season goes kaput, then so be it, but this team is still deeper than it was last season...and better with the exception of Lids... 2 number9 and Z Winged Dangler reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,803 Report post Posted October 30, 2012 No reason to think this team comes out of the first round, if there's a season. They've regressed the last several years and the offseason hardly improved the roster, to warrant giving them an A. 1 esteef reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Z and D for the C 712 Report post Posted October 30, 2012 Holland did the best he could, he couldn't have brainwashed Suter and Parise into signing. That doesn't make a good off season though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,803 Report post Posted October 30, 2012 Holland did the best he could, he couldn't have brainwashed Suter and Parise into signing. That doesn't make a good off season though. Not saying Holland didn't try better. Just saying at the end of the day, he failed at improving this team in any significant way as to challenge for the Conference. But hey, it's all make-believe anyway, since there won't be a season. Who knows which players won't return for the future. We already have an old team. It's just been a s***ty year for hockey, especially here on LGW. Short playoff, disappointing offseason and now an empty year with no hockey ahead. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Axe Report post Posted October 30, 2012 I give them an F. Starting with Bertuzzi, The Wings have WASTED money on all of their signings since (minus Brunner). I would much rather have Parise and Suter at 10 mil per season for 10 years and 3 other prospects than Samuelsson, Gustavson, Bertuzzi, Quincey, and Colo at 12 mil per season for 3 years. The Wings should have outbid the Wild and they didnt. Fail. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seraph 240 Report post Posted October 30, 2012 I think you are being optimistic and there is nothing wrong with that. The fact is that our defense is unproven and it's the first time in a long time that we're going into a season feeling shaky on the back end. You can play various tricks with numbers and stats to convince yourself it's going to be okay, but that's just a more calculated form of optimism. Our off-season acquisitions were not significant enough to make the entire fan base feel equally optimistic, but half the fun is seeing what happens and how we adapt. Though I will say whatever perks you want to cite about signing Samuelsson, Tootoo, and Brunner (bang for buck, etc.) won't mean much if we end up dropping games from our shaky defense. Filling that gap was our top priority that's where I would most heavily weigh the grade. I wouldn't necessarily give us an A, but here's to being proven wrong. 1 esteef reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted October 30, 2012 I give them an F. Starting with Bertuzzi, The Wings have WASTED money on all of their signings since (minus Brunner). I would much rather have Parise and Suter at 10 mil per season for 10 years and 3 other prospects than Samuelsson, Gustavson, Bertuzzi, Quincey, and Colo at 12 mil per season for 3 years. The Wings should have outbid the Wild and they didnt. Fail. The Wild have 21% of their cap space tied up with Parise and Suter for a very long time. The Wings have 16% of their cap space tied up with their top forward and top D-man (Datysuk and Kronwall) The Wings have 18% of their cap space tied up with their top 2 overall players (Datsyuk and Zetterberg) I'd also refer to the OP's points per dollar section of his article. If the only goal of the off-season was to sign Suter and Parise, then yes we failed on both accounts. However, if one of our goals was also to "spend our money wisely" then we succeeded where the Wild failed. Datsyuk at 6.7 > Parise at 7.5 Zetterberg at 6 > Parise at 7.5 Kronwall at 4.75 > Suter at 7.5 We don't overpay for FA's when we can wait and develop our home grown talent and put them on reasonable contracts. Build through the draft. 4 Frozen-Man, hooon, Wingsfan72 and 1 other reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Axe Report post Posted October 30, 2012 The Wild have 21% of their cap space tied up with Parise and Suter for a very long time. The Wings have 16% of their cap space tied up with their top forward and top D-man (Datysuk and Kronwall) The Wings have 18% of their cap space tied up with their top 2 overall players (Datsyuk and Zetterberg) I'd also refer to the OP's points per dollar section of his article. If the only goal of the off-season was to sign Suter and Parise, then yes we failed on both accounts. However, if one of our goals was also to "spend our money wisely" then we succeeded where the Wild failed. Datsyuk at 6.7 > Parise at 7.5 Zetterberg at 6 > Parise at 7.5 Kronwall at 4.75 > Suter at 7.5 We don't overpay for FA's when we can wait and develop our home grown talent and put them on reasonable contracts. Build through the draft. Im not saying Parise and Suter are better than Zetterberger and Dats. Im saying the Wings, and Z+D, are better with Suter and Parise. Datsyuk and Zetterbrrg are a hundred years old. With Parise and Suter, the Wings would have vaulted back into cup contention. Now they are barely a playoff team. Brunner-Zetterberg-Franzen Parise-Datsyuk-Nyquist Helm-Filppula-Cleary Miller-Abdelkader-Eaves Suter-Smith Kronwall-Ericsson Kindl-Quincey Howard Thats a solid team. Right now, we're mush. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted October 30, 2012 Im not saying Parise and Suter are better than Zetterberger and Dats. Im saying the Wings, and Z+D, are better with Suter and Parise. Datsyuk and Zetterbrrg are a hundred years old. With Parise and Suter, the Wings would have vaulted back into cup contention. Now they are barely a playoff team. Brunner-Zetterberg-Franzen Parise-Datsyuk-Nyquist Helm-Filppula-Cleary Miller-Abdelkader-Eaves Suter-Smith Kronwall-Ericsson Kindl-Quincey Howard Thats a solid team. Right now, we're mush. Of course Datsyuk and Zetterberg would play better with Parise on their line(s) and Suter on the back end. I'm not arguing that. Obtaining Parise and Suter at that price would cripple the team financially. I'd rather give our home grown talent time to get better and then sign them to reasonable contracts when they earn their spot on the Pro Team....instead of paying mary kate and ashley way more than they're worth for the next 10 years That roster (including Bertuzzi and White) (and assuming you have monster as Howies back up) would leave the team about 2,600,000 in cap space.... What do you do when this season ends and Filppula, Howard, Brunner, Nyquist, Smith, Kindl and White all need new contracts/raises? And all you have is 2.6 mil more? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Axe Report post Posted October 30, 2012 Of course Datsyuk and Zetterberg would play better with Parise on their line(s) and Suter on the back end. I'm not arguing that. Obtaining Parise and Suter at that price would cripple the team financially. I'd rather give our home grown talent time to get better and then sign them to reasonable contracts when they earn their spot on the Pro Team....instead of paying mary kate and ashley way more than they're worth for the next 10 years That roster (including Bertuzzi and White) (and assuming you have monster as Howies back up) would leave the team about 2,600,000 in cap space.... What do you do when this season ends and Filppula, Howard, Brunner, Nyquist, Smith, Kindl and White all need new contracts/raises? And all you have is 2.6 mil more? Forgot White. Oops. Filppula is the only guy out of any of those who will deserve anything. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VM1138 1,921 Report post Posted October 30, 2012 I think time has clouded people's memories. They did all right, doing nothing more than standing pat. The main question mark is Brunner. If he tears it up it's an improvement, if he's average we're the same offensively as last year, and worse defensively. However, a shortened season really helps us because in a short time span it's anyone's game. Motivation and heart can carry a team farther over half a season than over a full 82 game stretch. And the chance for Franzen and other players to get healthy and Zetterberg and Brunner to get warmed up overseas bodes well for the Wings. Plus, we'll still have cap space, won't we? Which means desperate teams might be more willing to trade in a shorter season. EDIT: And as for Suter and Parise, they are non-factors now that they are on Minnesota. They might benefit from a shorter season, too, but long term they will continue to be a middling team that will miss the playoffs more often than not. Those two have taken themselves out of relevancy in the league. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shaman 713 Report post Posted October 30, 2012 (edited) Lost too much depth? We lost Lidstrom (who is unreplacable) and Stuart... Replaced with Quincey, Smith and Colaiacovo... those three more than replace Staurt...again, you cannot replace Lidstrom, nort even with Suter... up front we lost Hudler, Holmstrom and will probably lose two of Miller/Eaves/Mursak/Emmerton...replaced with Tootoo, Sammy, Brunner a full time Nyquist and long term Helm and Abby...GRR has nice depth to fill injuries... We lost the revolving door of a back up to Howard and gained a legit #2 in the Monster. I give Holland an A for trying to land all the top talent in the UFA market, all in all, I give the off season a B+ considering that with the exception of Lidstrom, everyone that was signed was an upgrade to the folks we lost.... The only thing I would change is I would have shopped around Franzine, but who knows, maybe he did that too! Lidstrom = Unreplacable Quincey/Smith better than Stuart Colaiacovo better than Commie and Kindl still #7 Sammy better than Hudler Nyquist better than Holmstrom Tootoo better than any "tough" guy since Downey Helm and Abby here long term....and happy to be! Gustavsson better than Conklin/MacDonald combined. not to even mention the awesome draft Holland had! He went big and skilled and tough, everything we have been bitching at him to do for years! Get this CBA taken care of, sign Dekeyser after his senior year is up, trade Emmy/Mursak/Kindl for some picks and lets get this thing rolling! If the season goes kaput, then so be it, but this team is still deeper than it was last season...and better with the exception of Lids... Disagree with this, the only time Sammy has had a season as good as Hudler is when he was playing with the Sedins. Sammy is a downgrade, hes older, slower, and has less talent around him compared to the past. So, they lost depth at top-6 forward (in my mind), and lost depth in top-4 d-men. As for Quincey being better than Stuart, offensively yes, defensively, I would give the edge to Stuart. Edited October 30, 2012 by Shaman464 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted October 30, 2012 (edited) Forgot White. Oops. Filppula is the only guy out of any of those who will deserve anything. are you joking? Filppula will demand somewhere between 4 and 5 if he stays on track (1-2 mil more) White is on a bargain contract right now and will probably get the same as Quincey (1 mil more) Howard is worth well beyond 2 mil. Probably should expect at least 4 for him (2 mil more) If Brunner turns out to be the real deal he'll probably expect something like Flips got on his first contract (2 mil more) We'll have to spend around 5-7 mil if those guys perform as expected and on your roster you have 2.5 to spend And I have not even gotten to RFA's yet, which will include Smith, Nyquist, and Kindl. All will be lookign for 1-way deals that will effect the cap. Again, Suter and Parises Minny contracts would have crippled us financially. Thankfully Holland didn't sign them to those ridiculous contracts. EDIT: Not to mention you'll have Cleary and Miller as UFA and Mursak as RFA as well Edited October 30, 2012 by number9 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 5,131 Report post Posted October 30, 2012 are you joking? Filppula will demand somewhere between 4 and 5 if he stays on track (1-2 mil more) White is on a bargain contract right now and will probably get the same as Quincey (1 mil more) Howard is worth well beyond 2 mil. Probably should expect at least 4 for him (2 mil more) If Brunner turns out to be the real deal he'll probably expect something like Flips got on his first contract (2 mil more) We'll have to spend around 5-7 mil if those guys perform as expected and on your roster you have 2.5 to spend And I have not even gotten to RFA's yet, which will include Smith, Nyquist, and Kindl. All will be lookign for 1-way deals that will effect the cap. Again, Suter and Parises Minny contracts would have crippled us financially. Thankfully Holland didn't sign them to those ridiculous contracts. EDIT: Not to mention you'll have Cleary and Miller as UFA and Mursak as RFA as well Not to mention if Brunner scores 25-30 goals they will need to re-sign him too! They can sign Dekeyser and either trade Kindl or let him go RFA... agreed on the other points, they really cannot let White go after losing Rafalski, Lidstrom and Stuart...not unless the somehow acquire a stud via the fire sale.... Trade Emmy and Mursak....they have Miller and a soon to be returning Eaves...I'd also let Cleary go or trade him at the deadline (his NTC expired last deadline.) There are too many folks waiting to come up and they are running out of options to play in Rapids... (sure wish Holland would have offer a contract to Welsh...Carolina is damn lucky to have him!) 2 Z Winged Dangler and Rick D reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Z and D for the C 712 Report post Posted October 30, 2012 Not saying Holland didn't try better. Just saying at the end of the day, he failed at improving this team in any significant way as to challenge for the Conference. But hey, it's all make-believe anyway, since there won't be a season. Who knows which players won't return for the future. We already have an old team. It's just been a s***ty year for hockey, especially here on LGW. Short playoff, disappointing offseason and now an empty year with no hockey ahead. Just for the record, my post wasn't in response to yours or anything. I agree with you (except I think we'll have a season yet, even if a half season). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Axe Report post Posted October 31, 2012 Not to mention if Brunner scores 25-30 goals they will need to re-sign him too! They can sign Dekeyser and either trade Kindl or let him go RFA... agreed on the other points, they really cannot let White go after losing Rafalski, Lidstrom and Stuart...not unless the somehow acquire a stud via the fire sale.... Trade Emmy and Mursak....they have Miller and a soon to be returning Eaves...I'd also let Cleary go or trade him at the deadline (his NTC expired last deadline.) There are too many folks waiting to come up and they are running out of options to play in Rapids... (sure wish Holland would have offer a contract to Welsh...Carolina is damn lucky to have him!) If Brunner can score 25 to 30 goals? Are you f'ing mad? Datsyuk and Zetterberg have a hard time getting to 30. But no namer Swiss League guy is gonna just light it up out of the blue? Delusional. We will be lucky if he's still in the NHL after his first year. He's small and not lightning fast. Im not saying that Danny Brieres cant happen. But its 1 out of 1000. Parise is a sure thing. Thats why the Wings should have ponied up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,756 Report post Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) If Brunner can score 25 to 30 goals? Are you f'ing mad? Datsyuk and Zetterberg have a hard time getting to 30. But no namer Swiss League guy is gonna just light it up out of the blue? Delusional. We will be lucky if he's still in the NHL after his first year. He's small and not lightning fast. Im not saying that Danny Brieres cant happen. But its 1 out of 1000. Parise is a sure thing. Thats why the Wings should have ponied up. Actually by all accounts he's got Helm like speed, so yes, he is lightening fast. High end speed references: here...http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1232733-detroit-red-wings-get-to-know-new-red-wing-damien-brunner and here...http://detroit.sbnation.com/detroit-red-wings/2012/6/22/3110401/damien-brunner-red-wings-rumors and here...http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2012/07/red_wings_sign_damien_brunner.html and here...http://www.redwingscentral.com/prospects/damien-brunner/ Of course none of this means he'll score 30, or even 20 goals. But in an effort to be contradictory, or simply out of sheer negligence, you've made a statement that is by every account demonstrably false. Edited October 31, 2012 by kipwinger 1 Z Winged Dangler reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
