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Franzen Is The Wings Most Undeserved Whipping Boy

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I am sure the OP didn't mean for this to become another Franzia v. Hossa debate, but in the end, that is why he has become a whipping boy...we lost our only 40 goal scorer since Shanahan for this guy and he has done nothing to prove that he was the right choice. I appreciate his 29 goals last season, but when he scores 20 by December and then only nets 9 more the rest of the year, he deserves his whipping boy status. If he wasn't chosen over Hossa, if we never had Hossa to begin with, he may not be the whipping boy that he is.

Didnt Hossa go on a tear during the regular season that year? Wasnt he the best player on the Wings?

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Hossa was more expensive and the Wings would have had to drop somebody else to afford him.

During the 09 playoffs, the biggest whipping boy for Red Wings fans was Hossa, and Franzen was everybody's sweetheart probably some of the same people who claim we should have signed him instead of Franzen now. People would have been outraged if we signed Hossa and dropped Franzen

Not me. Hossa was badly injured during the playoffs and an easy scapegoat. He's still the better player.

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Goal scorers go into hot and cold streaks all the time. That is expected and not an issue. It is the fact that Franzen DOES NOTHING when he isn't scoring. sammy who I am not a fan of keeps working, while in a slump. he skates, checks a little and plays D. Franzen doesn't. he just kinda floats arond the ice. 1 or 2 strides here float float float, then 1 or 2 strides somewhere else.

The really bad part is, Franzen is already 33. He has 7 years left on his contract after this one. His cap hit is 3.95 million every year of his contract. Even if he retires we take the hit. So, and this would be funny if it wasn't so harmfull-we could be hurt by his contract after he RETIRES! Paying for 0 goals per year. 0 points per year. 0 minutes per year. The idea that franzen will still be playing in the NHL in 7+ years is down right laughable. At the rate he is going, he is going to be lucky to have a job in 3 years. The money is gone, nothing can be done about that. But we can do something about the cap hit.

Also, yes he is the problem with our O. The fact that babcocl feels he ahs to play cleary and abby with datsyuk, over franzen speaks volumns.

This is just all kinds of wrong and unlike some of the other Franzen critics who've made good points this lacks any and all sense.

First how can Abby and Cleary be playing over Franzen on line 2, when he is playing on line #1 with Zetterberg and Brunner? Technically speaking he's playing over Datsyuk, Cleary and Abby.

Secondly, why would he retire costing a team thats been loyal to him when he could just go on LTIR and not cost the team at all should he want to hang them up?

Third, your assessment of Franzen's defence is so wrong its mind boggling. Franzen has been on the ice for a total of 4 goals against all season while facing the toughest opposition of anyone on the entire team. Per/60 minutes Franzen ranks 3rd among the Wings forwards in goals against. He trails only Tootoo and Eaves both of which face easier opposition. Sammy on the other hand ranks dead last on the entire team, while facing the worst opposition of the entire team.

The only way you can reach the conclusion you did is to either be completely biased, or completely oblivious to what happens on the ice.

BTW, just came accross a guess for the cost to sign Clarkson this summer. 4.5 million. Only .5 million more than Franzen. Who is overpaid now?

Clarkson

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This is just all kinds of wrong and unlike some of the other Franzen critics who've made good points this lacks any and all sense.

First how can Abby and Cleary be playing over Franzen on line 2, when he is playing on line #1 with Zetterberg and Brunner? Technically speaking he's playing over Datsyuk, Cleary and Abby.

Secondly, why would he retire costing a team thats been loyal to him when he could just go on LTIR and not cost the team at all should he want to hang them up?

Third, your assessment of Franzen's defence is so wrong its mind boggling. Franzen has been on the ice for a total of 4 goals against all season while facing the toughest opposition of anyone on the entire team. Per/60 minutes Franzen ranks 3rd among the Wings forwards in goals against. He trails only Tootoo and Eaves both of which face easier opposition. Sammy on the other hand ranks dead last on the entire team, while facing the worst opposition of the entire team.

The only way you can reach the conclusion you did is to either be completely biased, or completely oblivious to what happens on the ice.

Clarkson

Are you Ms. Franzen or what? You realize he is on a 16 g over 82 game pace right? Do you watch him play? he does nothing! Even the one thing he is supposed to do: shot and score he isn't doing. he doesn't hit, he doesn't skate. But your blind man/woman love is refreshing........

Just for a point of reference. Clarkson is on a 37 G over 82 game pace.

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Guest The Axe   
Guest The Axe

Anyone who cant tell the difference between Hosaa and Franzen is insane. Clear speed and skill difference. Very clear. Holland crapped the bed on that one.

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Anyone who cant tell the difference between Hosaa and Franzen is insane. Clear speed and skill difference. Very clear. Holland crapped the bed on that one.

No, they have similiar skills. Hossa uses his and frnazen does not. That is the difference. If we could merge Cleary's heart and effort with Franzens natural God given talent, we would have a 50 goal scorer. But at 33 years of age, that just isn't happening.

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This is just all kinds of wrong and unlike some of the other Franzen critics who've made good points this lacks any and all sense.

First how can Abby and Cleary be playing over Franzen on line 2, when he is playing on line #1 with Zetterberg and Brunner? Technically speaking he's playing over Datsyuk, Cleary and Abby.

Secondly, why would he retire costing a team thats been loyal to him when he could just go on LTIR and not cost the team at all should he want to hang them up?

Third, your assessment of Franzen's defence is so wrong its mind boggling. Franzen has been on the ice for a total of 4 goals against all season while facing the toughest opposition of anyone on the entire team. Per/60 minutes Franzen ranks 3rd among the Wings forwards in goals against. He trails only Tootoo and Eaves both of which face easier opposition. Sammy on the other hand ranks dead last on the entire team, while facing the worst opposition of the entire team.

The only way you can reach the conclusion you did is to either be completely biased, or completely oblivious to what happens on the ice.

Clarkson

Im very confused about the above part that is bolded. Are you saying Brunner and Franzon are playing better then Pav?

In todays NHL you need to have two top lines to be competitive. Balancing out the skills through lines 1 and 2.

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Are you Ms. Franzen or what? You realize he is on a 16 g over 82 game pace right? Do you watch him play? he does nothing! Even the one thing he is supposed to do: shot and score he isn't doing. he doesn't hit, he doesn't skate. But your blind man/woman love is refreshing........

Just for a point of reference. Clarkson is on a 37 G over 82 game pace.

So what? I said your assessment of his defensive play is completely wrong. I didn't say his offensive numbers have been great this year.

Here are a few players quality of competition #'s from this season. (the higher the # the better the opposition)

Franzen 4.39

Zetterberg 2.068

Datsyuk 2.820

Samuelsson -1.046

Clarkson 0.298

Here is their GAA per 60/m

Clarkson 2.01

Samuelsson 3.73

Zetterberg 2.30

Datsyuk 1.70

Franzen 1.20

Here is their total # of goals against with them on the ice

Franzen - 4

Zetterberg - 12

Datsyuk - 8

Samuelsson - 2

Clarkson - 9

Clarkson may be having a great year, but one great season doesn't make him worth 4.5 million when he's been a sub 50pt player for the entirety of his career.

Im very confused about the above part that is bolded. Are you saying Brunner and Franzon are playing better then Pav?

In todays NHL you need to have two top lines to be competitive. Balancing out the skills through lines 1 and 2.

I'm not saying that at all, I'm saying that Franzen is playing on Line 1 based on the amount of even strength ice time each line gets. Although that changes from game to game based on Babcocks whims and their opposition.

On most recent nights the lines have been

#1 Franzen-Zetterberg-Brunner

#2 Cleary - Datsyuk- Abdelkader

#3 Tatar - Andersson-Eaves

#4 Miller - Emmerton-Tootoo

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So what? I said your assessment of his defensive play is completely wrong. I didn't say his offensive numbers have been great this year.

Here are a few players quality of competition #'s from this season. (the higher the # the better the opposition)

Franzen 4.39

Zetterberg 2.068

Datsyuk 2.820

Samuelsson -1.046

Clarkson 0.298

Here is their GAA per 60/m

Clarkson 2.01

Samuelsson 3.73

Zetterberg 2.30

Datsyuk 1.70

Franzen 1.20

Here is their total # of goals against with them on the ice

Franzen - 4

Zetterberg - 12

Datsyuk - 8

Samuelsson - 2

Clarkson - 9

Clarkson may be having a great year, but one great season doesn't make him worth 4.5 million when he's been a sub 50pt player for the entirety of his career.

Hmmm this will be 2 seasons. BTW its great SEASONS not 2 great playoffs which is why Franzen got paid. Also now you are saying Franzen is a better player than Zetterberg. Well the #'s you are using are. Never mind they play on the same line...... Think there might be a problem with your logic here? Not to mention Datsyuk........ A true fail attempt.

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So what? I said your assessment of his defensive play is completely wrong. I didn't say his offensive numbers have been great this year.

Here are a few players quality of competition #'s from this season. (the higher the # the better the opposition)

Franzen 4.39

Zetterberg 2.068

Datsyuk 2.820

Samuelsson -1.046

Clarkson 0.298

Here is their GAA per 60/m

Clarkson 2.01

Samuelsson 3.73

Zetterberg 2.30

Datsyuk 1.70

Franzen 1.20

Here is their total # of goals against with them on the ice

Franzen - 4

Zetterberg - 12

Datsyuk - 8

Samuelsson - 2

Clarkson - 9

Clarkson may be having a great year, but one great season doesn't make him worth 4.5 million when he's been a sub 50pt player for the entirety of his career.

I'm not saying that at all, I'm saying that Franzen is playing on Line 1 based on the amount of even strength ice time each line gets. Although that changes from game to game based on Babcocks whims and their opposition.

On most recent nights the lines have been

#1 Franzen-Zetterberg-Brunner

#2 Cleary - Datsyuk- Abdelkader

#3 Tatar - Andersson-Eaves

#4 Miller - Emmerton-Tootoo

Yep, those have been the lines. Franzen gets all that 1st line ice time and has 3 goals. I think you could pritty much stick anyone on that line, Brunner and Zetterberg would still do their thing.

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Hmmm this will be 2 seasons. BTW its great SEASONS not 2 great playoffs which is why Franzen got paid. Also now you are saying Franzen is a better player than Zetterberg. Well the #'s you are using are. Never mind they play on the same line...... Think there might be a problem with your logic here? Not to mention Datsyuk........ A true fail attempt.

Clarkson had 30 goals last year but only 46 pts and was a -8. The player you're calling overpaid scored 1 fewer goal and had 10 more points while finishing +23 on a team that finished with an identical record. I don't really think either would be overpaid but I'd rather Franzen over Clarkson based on his consistency. I'd take Clarkson over Flip though which is a far more likely scenario considering his contract is up and he'll be looking for a similar salary to Clarkson.

And you know damn well I'm not saying Franzen is better than Zetterberg or Datsyuk. I don't base my opinions of players based on a stretch of 15 games. What I am saying is that you seem to have no idea how to assess someone's defensive abilities, and that you are completely wrong about how Franzen has played in his own end this year. Through this very small sample size he's easily been one of, if not our best defensive forward.

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This team needs a whipping boy...even as Cup champions they need one. It just so happens they have two right now, Franzia and Cleary. Some other whip on other players for whatever reason and they have their reason and I respect it. I cannot stand Franzia, never wanted him to be re-signed over Hossa. Hossa is the heads and tails better player and from the day he signed here, he should have been locked up long term.

No, Kenny didn't have a crystal ball and no one would have guessed that Franzine would take a dump like he has. I knew from the get go that Hossa was the better player and was more than willing to give up Franzine and his three years of great play for Hossa. It was a no brainer. But Holland being the better hockey mind, chose otherwise. He was wrong. Yet, he is still the GM, so he must be right more times than not and I am still in my line of work... I love being able to say I told you so when its all said and done though! It may not change what happened or what Holland will do next, but I love when I am right just as much as I hate when I am wrong... I also like the idea of Chicago buying out Hossa, which I was calling two years ago, and I would love to be right about that! We could get Hossa back and if Holland does that, then you know that he knows he was wrong....

Either way, Franzine deserves his whipping boy status despite his 5 goal game that only 2 other Red Wings have done...oh boy!

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Yep, those have been the lines. Franzen gets all that 1st line ice time and has 3 goals. I think you could pritty much stick anyone on that line, Brunner and Zetterberg would still do their thing.

Yet when Franzen was out for a couple games that line completely fell apart. Over that span Zetterberg and Brunner were a combined -9 with almost all of their points coming on the PP in one game.

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This team needs a whipping boy...even as Cup champions they need one. It just so happens they have two right now, Franzia and Cleary. Some other whip on other players for whatever reason and they have their reason and I respect it. I cannot stand Franzia, never wanted him to be re-signed over Hossa. Hossa is the heads and tails better player and from the day he signed here, he should have been locked up long term.

No, Kenny didn't have a crystal ball and no one would have guessed that Franzine would take a dump like he has. I knew from the get go that Hossa was the better player and was more than willing to give up Franzine and his three years of great play for Hossa. It was a no brainer. But Holland being the better hockey mind, chose otherwise. He was wrong. Yet, he is still the GM, so he must be right more times than not and I am still in my line of work... I love being able to say I told you so when its all said and done though! It may not change what happened or what Holland will do next, but I love when I am right just as much as I hate when I am wrong... I also like the idea of Chicago buying out Hossa, which I was calling two years ago, and I would love to be right about that! We could get Hossa back and if Holland does that, then you know that he knows he was wrong....

Either way, Franzine deserves his whipping boy status despite his 5 goal game that only 2 other Red Wings have done...oh boy!

Byfuglien can be our new whipping boy :scared:

Edit: Sorry wrong thread

Yet when Franzen was out for a couple games that line completely fell apart. Over that span Zetterberg and Brunner were a combined -9 with almost all of their points coming on the PP in one game.

Who filled in? I forget

Edited by WINGS & FLOW

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Guest Johnz96   
Guest Johnz96

BTW, just came accross a guess for the cost to sign Clarkson this summer. 4.5 million. Only .5 million more than Franzen. Who is overpaid now?

If O'Reilly got 5.5 I doubt Clarkson will only get 4.5

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http://thehockeywriters.com/johan-franzen-is-the-red-wings-most-undeserved-whipping-boy/

Sammy is one of the streakiest players ever, but he never gets accused of floating... at least not that I've heard. Seems unfair to be hating on Franzen.

We're usually always on the same page, but I think after the performance Franzen put on the past couple games, he could be mistaken for a float on parade. He was beyond terrible the past couple games floating around even more than usual, not being "hard on the puck" as the announcers ripped him for many times last game. Dude's just lazy. He got set up by Brunner in the slot and took the pansiest shot i've ever seen. The only thing he's done well since he came back from injury is the one time he slowly drove the net and got a half decent shot off. Other than that he's been pretty much the announcers jogging (can't even call it running when talking Franzen) joke.

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Guest The Axe   
Guest The Axe

We're usually always on the same page, but I think after the performance Franzen put on the past couple games, he could be mistaken for a float on parade. He was beyond terrible the past couple games floating around even more than usual, not being "hard on the puck" as the announcers ripped him for many times last game. Dude's just lazy. He got set up by Brunner in the slot and took the pansiest shot i've ever seen. The only thing he's done well since he came back from injury is the one time he slowly drove the net and got a half decent shot off. Other than that he's been pretty much the announcers jogging (can't even call it running when talking Franzen) joke.

He doesnt hit. Emmerton hits. Datsyuk hits. Tatar and Andersson hit. No one should be exempt from this in today's NHL except 100 point or 50 goal scorers. Wings are getting back to being tough to play against. Franzen doesnt fit that description right now. He's a teddy bear.

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Franzia is well deverved of his whipping boy status, by his own admittance that he gets bored in the NHL and doesn't give 100% all the time...

Also, the author is wrong about how he got his nickname. He was called the Mule because it was so hard to move him from in front of the net. (When he was younger and didn't get his serious contract yet.) It had absolutely nothing to do with his work ethic on the ice. A mule is unmovable and stubborn and cannot be pushed down once it stands it ground. That is what Franzia was prior to his contract signing. That is why he was name the Mule. The author needs to get the facts correct before he writes his gibberish. That was a quote directly from Steve Yzerman himself in describing why he called him the Mule along with a tongue in cheek shot at his huge front teeth which makes him resemble one as well...

I also like how the author refers to him being one of only two players to score 5 goals in a game...that may be true, but he omitted the fact that he scored those 5 goals and then didn't score again for 2 months, and I think only 4 more the rest of the season...

Then he ends up with a challenge, if you have the guts post your comments below. Well I certainly have the guts, but do not conform to social media controlling what I post since you are required to have a waste-of-facebook account, which I do not, I cannot comment. I would certainly invite him here to debate with us because I can guarantee 75% of our users have more hockey knowledge than he does...

Franzia is well deverved of his whipping boy status, by his own admittance that he gets bored in the NHL and doesn't give 100% all the time...

No. He said that he gets bored, not that he doesn't give 100%.

If you have followed the Franzen saga since he was a rookie you would understand that his problem is in his confidence. There have been several articles written about how he is extremely shy and lacks confidence. It seems that his confidence comes and goes. When it is low, he plays passively. Of course this makes him a candidate for the LGW whipping boy of the month, though Cleary seems to be moving up the ranks...

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He doesnt hit. Emmerton hits. Datsyuk hits. Tatar and Andersson hit. No one should be exempt from this in today's NHL except 100 point or 50 goal scorers. Wings are getting back to being tough to play against. Franzen doesnt fit that description right now. He's a teddy bear.

This is just so untrue. He's actually been pretty physical. Example #1: Feruary highlights, 0:04 of video.

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Guest The Axe   
Guest The Axe

This is just so untrue. He's actually been pretty physical. Example #1: Feruary highlights, 0:04 of video.

So you found his one hit this year. That should be a twice a game occurrence for a 6'3" 230 1st liner. Not a once a year deal. Id be happy if he only scored 15 goals and 30 pts BUT threw his weight around like that EVERY game.

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If you could put Tootoo's work ethic and hard nosed play, in Franzen's body and skill set or vice versa, what a true power forward you would have!

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He was floating in Chicago, but he also just got back from being injured. Before his injury, I thought he looked decent. People are just pissed off because he isn't scoring goals, but he still had 9 points through 12 games. He's played on a line with two guys who are in the top 25 players for SOG.

Give the guy a few games to adjust from the injury, and if he's still floating and doing crap all, then ok... but before the injury he looked fine to me, especially at under 4 million.

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