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An appeal to heaven


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#21 kipwinger

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 05:01 PM

Realistically, no one really knows if any of those players are on the market. It's all just speculation. I can guarantee Perry isn't being shopped...

 

You can guarantee it huh?  Aren't you just...drum roll please...speculating?  The only difference is that you're speculating in a different direction.  Well, that and you aren't a professional hockey analyst who's job is to know things like team cap space, player efficacy, internal budgetary limitations, draft and development strategy, etc. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#22 DSM

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 05:08 PM

You can guarantee it huh?  Aren't you just...drum roll please...speculating?  The only difference is that you're speculating in a different direction.  Well, that and you aren't a professional hockey analyst who's job is to know things like team cap space, player efficacy, internal budgetary limitations, draft and development strategy, etc. 

 

Lol. ok, you got me... Maybe guarantee is too strong of a word. But I would be willing to bet large sums that Anaheim won't move Perry....



#23 DSM

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 05:18 PM

What I don't understand is this:

 

Cleary is getting dragged across the coals this season, and Stafford is pretty much Buffalo's Cleary right now. So where is the logic in bringing in ANOTHER Cleary? Do you guys have some insatiable appetite for bashing inconsistent players on here?

 

And before you use the "He's on a bad team" excuse, realize that Buffalo is only 6 points behind the Wings and have played in 4 less home games...



#24 nyqvististhefuture

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 05:24 PM


 

 

Yeah Stafford's two consecutive 50 pt. seasons were flukes.  Also, if I'm following you right now you're suggesting that the only reason that guys get shopped is because they aren't good.  Which means that Filppula, Yandle, Iginla, Perry, Clowe, Stastny, Luongo, etc. are all not good. 

 

Then again, we do have Nyquist, and lord knows he's the future. 

 

 

ya cause 2 seasons of 50 points makes stafford a star  ... hes never gonna be on the decline now right?? hes a power forward! if he was so good buffalo wouldnt be shopping him

 

iginla perry filppula clowe are all ufa's at the end of the season , yandle carrys a cap number of 5+ million a season and phoenix doesnt wanna waste $$$ ... stastny is being highly over paid .. and luongo has like what 8 years left? lol thats why those guys are being shopping around

 

laugh at nyquist but id rather give him a shot at the top line with datsyuk and keep the assets it would cost us to get stafford and his consective 50 pt seasons



#25 kipwinger

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 05:26 PM

What I don't understand is this:

 

Cleary is getting dragged across the coals this season, and Stafford is pretty much Buffalo's Cleary right now. So where is the logic in bringing in ANOTHER Cleary? Do you guys have some insatiable appetite for bashing inconsistent players on here?

 

And before you use the "He's on a bad team" excuse, realize that Buffalo is only 6 points behind the Wings and have played in 4 less home games...

 

Dan Cleary has never in his life scored 30 goals or put up 50 points.  He's also not as big as Stafford or as fast.  And while Buffalo as a team may not be much worse that Detroit this season, they have traditionally been much worse.  Finally, even if the team wasn't as bad as Detroit, it's still a defense first system, and Stafford has NEVER played on the wing of an elite center.  We have two of them. 

 

Stafford is definitely having a down year.  But he's not "Buffalo's Cleary" and is a prime candidate for the old "needs a change of scenery" adage. 



Yeah Stafford's two consecutive 50 pt. seasons were flukes.  Also, if I'm following you right now you're suggesting that the only reason that guys get shopped is because they aren't good.  Which means that Filppula, Yandle, Iginla, Perry, Clowe, Stastny, Luongo, etc. are all not good. 

 

Then again, we do have Nyquist, and lord knows he's the future. 

 

 

ya cause 2 seasons of 50 points makes stafford a star  ... hes never gonna be on the decline now right?? hes a power forward! if he was so good buffalo wouldnt be shopping him

 

iginla perry filppula clowe are all ufa's at the end of the season , yandle carrys a cap number of 5+ million a season and phoenix doesnt wanna waste $$$ ... stastny is being highly over paid .. and luongo has like what 8 years left? lol thats why those guys are being shopping around

 

laugh at nyquist but id rather give him a shot at the top line with datsyuk and keep the assets it would cost us to get stafford and his consective 50 pt seasons

 

Never said he was a star, just said he was a good young power forward that would help us.  As for the rest of your meandering thought, you just proved my point for me.  Lots of teams move lots of guys for lots of reasons.  The fact that Stafford is trade bait doesn't mean he's not any good. 

 

Give Nyquist a shot at what, getting steam rolled by top defensive pairings while stickhandling and passing them to death?  We need goal scorers...he isn't one. 

 

Thanks for playing. 


Edited by kipwinger, 14 March 2013 - 05:29 PM.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#26 DSM

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 05:27 PM

Take the poll at the bottom of this article:

 

http://www.hockeybuz...Records/6/49278

 

Sounds like what a lot of people want Babcock want to do with a certain player whose name starts with a "C" and ends with a "Y"....... Who could that be?



#27 nyqvististhefuture

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 05:31 PM

Dan Cleary has never in his life scored 30 goals or put up 50 points.  He's also not as big as Stafford or as fast.  And while Buffalo as a team may not be much worse that Detroit this season, they have traditionally been much worse.  Finally, even if the team wasn't as bad as Detroit, it's still a defense first system, and Stafford has NEVER played on the wing of an elite center.  We have two of them. 

 

Stafford is definitely having a down year.  But he's not "Buffalo's Cleary" and is a prime candidate for the old "needs a change of scenery" adage. 



 

Never said he was a star, just said he was a good young power forward that would help us.  As for the rest of your meandering thought, you just proved my point for me.  Lots of teams move lots of guys for lots of reasons.  The fact that Stafford is trade bait doesn't mean he's not any good. 

 

Give Nyquist a shot at what, getting steam rolled by top defensive pairing and stickhandling and passing them to death?  We need goal scorers...he isn't one. 

 

Thanks for playing. 

 

ya there all ufa's  and teams wanna get a return for them ... the other players are basically over paid just like stafford is

 

thank YOU for playing

 

and stafford and his 2 goals in 27 games doesnt look like a goal scorer either


Edited by nyqvististhefuture, 14 March 2013 - 05:33 PM.


#28 DSM

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 05:32 PM

We have enough slump-prone forwards on this team. No need to overpay for another one...



#29 kipwinger

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 05:38 PM

Take the poll at the bottom of this article:

 

http://www.hockeybuz...Records/6/49278

 

Sounds like what a lot of people want Babcock want to do with a certain player whose name starts with a "C" and ends with a "Y"....... Who could that be?

 

It also sounds a lot like what a ton of people here at LGW wanted to do with Zetterberg last season during his prolonged scoring slump.  That fact that dumbasses want to bench a guy for a slump does not mean that he's comparable to a 34 year old grinder with two bum knees. 

 

Also, as I've already said, I don't think Drew Stafford is a superstar, or some sort of saving grace.  He's a big, rugged, scoring winger who has loads of offensive talent who would really help out on a team which has ZERO big, rugged, scoring wingers and instead has to use Justin Abdelkader in that role and somehow hope the fairy godmother magically turns him into a scorer. 



We have enough slump-prone forwards on this team. No need to overpay for another one...

 

He makes 4 million dollars and is a legit top six winger.  How is that an over payment?  He's coming of two consecutive 50 point seasons, AND given his size can do a whole lot of other things most of our wingers can't.  Like hold on to the puck down low, score from the high traffic areas, wear down defensemen, clear space for the skill guys, finish a check, etc. etc. etc. 


Edited by kipwinger, 14 March 2013 - 05:40 PM.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#30 nyqvististhefuture

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 05:45 PM

It also sounds a lot like what a ton of people here at LGW wanted to do with Zetterberg last season during his prolonged scoring slump.  That fact that dumbasses want to bench a guy for a slump does not mean that he's comparable to a 34 year old grinder with two bum knees. 

 

Also, as I've already said, I don't think Drew Stafford is a superstar, or some sort of saving grace.  He's a big, rugged, scoring winger who has loads of offensive talent who would really help out on a team which has ZERO big, rugged, scoring wingers and instead has to use Justin Abdelkader in that role and somehow hope the fairy godmother magically turns him into a scorer. 



 

He makes 4 million dollars and is a legit top six winger.  How is that an over payment?  He's coming of two consecutive 50 point seasons, AND given his size can do a whole lot of other things most of our wingers can't.  Like hold on to the puck down low, score from the high traffic areas, wear down defensemen, clear space for the skill guys, finish a check, etc. etc. etc. 

 

legit top 6 in buffalo maybe hes got 2 goals in 27 games and hes hit 30 goals once .... hes a 15-20 goal scorer  and has 2 years left at 4 million

 

if im giving up nyquist and 1st round pick + for someone itll be for someone like yandle not drew stafford



#31 dropkickshanahans

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 05:48 PM

legit top 6 in buffalo maybe hes got 2 goals in 27 games and hes hit 30 goals once .... hes a 15-20 goal scorer  and has 2 years left at 4 million

 

if im giving up nyquist and 1st round pick + for someone itll be for someone like yandle not drew stafford

 

Why does it have to be Nyquist and a 1st round pick + for Stafford? Is Buffalo asking for a lot for him?



#32 kipwinger

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 06:29 PM

legit top 6 in buffalo maybe hes got 2 goals in 27 games and hes hit 30 goals once .... hes a 15-20 goal scorer  and has 2 years left at 4 million

 

if im giving up nyquist and 1st round pick + for someone itll be for someone like yandle not drew stafford

 

Who said anything about giving up Nyquist and a 1st for Stafford.  I know I sure as hell didn't. 



Why does it have to be Nyquist and a 1st round pick + for Stafford? Is Buffalo asking for a lot for him?

 

Nope, he just invented that.  Nobody has ever suggested Stafford was worth that. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#33 Buppy

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 07:59 PM

Both Smid and Stafford are 27 years old.  Stafford is under contract until 2015.  Smid isn't, but only makes 2.25 million.  He could easily be re-signed if wanted.  Regehr is middle aged, but still very effective.  Especially if we do make the playoffs, which I understand isn't a guarantee, of the three he's perhaps the riskiest but still a proven commidity and one that could make a very big difference. 

 

As I've said all along, I think we're a competitive team that has underperformed for a lot of different reasons.  Injury, roster turnover, etc.  But one of the biggest problems IMO is that we simply don't have enough guys in roles their suited for.  Our entire season is predicated on whether old guys have enough gas in the tank, whether young guys can step up into roles they've never played, whether certain guys will form chemistry with one another.  Just once this season I'd like to see what this team could do with 6 legit top six forwards, and 4 legit top four defensemen. 

...

I didn't mean anything particularly negative by "middle-aged"; just that they're not kids who should be expected to improve. And while we could re-sign Smid or Regehr, there's no guarantee that we would.

 

I think neither our team nor any of those players are good enough to make it worth giving up picks or prospects (at least good ones) for them. If we could get them for our spare-part roster players, low-ranked prospects, or late-round picks...sure. But I don't think we could. And I don't think they'd make enough difference to be worth giving up even a small chance of finding something special.



#34 Richdg

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 10:37 PM

Stafford is all of 3 years maybe 4 years older than Nyquist. he has already SHOWN he can score, 20, 25, 30 goals a season. has tatar? has Nyquist? No. I think tatar may be able to get to 20+ someday. Nyquist will not. he is a passer/playmaker, not a scorer. We need guys that can score goals. If Stafford was here today, he would be our 3rd best forward. better than Franzen, better than Filppula, better than any of the others.



#35 Serratoni

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 10:44 PM

legit top 6 in buffalo maybe hes got 2 goals in 27 games and hes hit 30 goals once .... hes a 15-20 goal scorer  and has 2 years left at 4 million

 

if im giving up nyquist and 1st round pick + for someone itll be for someone like yandle not drew stafford

 

Sorry to interrupt, but can you -- please, God! -- find the SHIFT key? Thanks.



#36 Buppy

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 01:05 AM

Stafford is all of 3 years maybe 4 years older than Nyquist. he has already SHOWN he can score, 20, 25, 30 goals a season. has tatar? has Nyquist? No. I think tatar may be able to get to 20+ someday. Nyquist will not. he is a passer/playmaker, not a scorer. We need guys that can score goals. If Stafford was here today, he would be our 3rd best forward. better than Franzen, better than Filppula, better than any of the others.

Scored 30 once, and not been over 20 any other year. He gets the same kind of "inconsistent, takes shifts off" criticism that Franzen gets. Franzen has scored 27 or more in 4 of the last 5 years, and the one he didn't was when he was injured (but he scored at a 30 goal pace that year). Franzen's on a 20 goal pace this year and being bashed to hell for it. Stafford's on pace for 6. He's big, but not particularly physical, doesn't fight. A lot like Franzen actually, not as good but younger. I wouldn't say he's as good as Flip either, but more of a goal scorer (though I think not by as much as you think). Stafford maybe fits our needs better, provided Pav and Hank hold up a little longer or one of our young centers steps up. Brunner may turn out to be better as well. I think you're suffering from some grass-is-greener syndrome.

 

Nyquist and/or Tatar may not be better, or ever be better, but they are cheaper, and will be for the forseeable future (unless they break out in a pretty big way). They are the kind of cheap tertiary (possibly secondary, longshot at primary) scoring that you have to have to build a high-powered offense in the cap world. We do have other potential candidates for those roles, so those two may become extraneous, but I don't think they are yet. We may not be able to find any good primary scorers to spend that money on, so that might not be an issue either.

 

I'd like Stafford here. I'd give up one of Gus or Tots for him straight up (or with one of our cast-offs), but I doubt Buffalo would. Good young teams like Pittsburgh, Chicago, and Boston could afford to give up a 1st for him (though I'm not sure anyone would, given the year he's having). Regardless, with the way the season is going, he'll likely be one of the better forwards available and there will be more buyers than sellers. Doesn't bode well for getting him cheaply. And unless he came pretty cheap I wouldn't go for it.

 

Also worth noting that we have no idea what Buffalo would think of our prospects, or if they would want to trade with a future division rival.



#37 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 09:25 AM

I think we have some great talent coming up in a couple years in jurco and frk.. Cannot wait to see them play at the NHL level.

 Jurco setting up Frk for a nasty clapper from the slot!  I want to see what Tvrdon's got too.  He may be a nice way to round out that line.  He's big too.  That line would be heavily skilled and all over 6 feet, so no one here could complain they're too small.  Suck on that Eastern Conference!


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