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Holland on SiriusXM w/ audio link


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#81 RedWingsDad

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 12:49 PM

 

O RLY?

 

 

The two goals are not comparable... Fil received a pass in the zone... Weiss went end to end.


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#82 Wing-in-avs-town

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 02:01 PM

The West has won 7 cups compared to 5 in the East since 2000. Don't really see "toughness" being much of an issue at all.


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#83 beachwing

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 02:02 PM

The Ducks, Blues and Sharks routinely throw the goons at us and we always handle well.

I mentioned in another post that Kronwall may neuter his game a bit if he gets jumped after every clean Kronwalling.

#84 kipwinger

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 02:08 PM

Let the East rack up penalty minutes against us, so long as our powerplay is better than last year I'm ok with it.  I'd be more pissed if we responded with similar goonery.  This whole debate reminds me of the Pittsburgh/Philly series two years ago.  A million penalty minutes, a million fights, and million goals and arguably the worst playoff hockey since the 2005 lockout.  Embarrassing.  I'll take our "soft euro" team any day rather than watch Scott Hartnell try to act like a bad professional wrestler (and even worse hockey player). 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

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#85 Crymson

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 03:00 PM

 

He said stats don't tell the whole story.

 

Which they don't because people often draw conclusions out of context that the stats don't actually support.

 

A full, exhaustive comparison of hit severity between the two conferences would be prohibitively time-consuming. From my own experience as a researcher, and given the total absence of extraneous factors that may cause a difference in average impact force between the two conferences, I feel it is safe to conclude that there would be no significant difference. All of those involved are professional hockey players; there are (obviously) no environmental differences between the conferences that would account for a disparity in impact force; and many (perhaps most) of these players have resided in both conferences throughout their careers. Those with the most influence over the degree of physicality in play are general managers---in player selection---and coaches---in play direction---both of whom see regular turnover, and very many of whom have served in both conferences.
 

As far as I can tell, the main difference the Red Wings will experience in the East will be far lower cumulative travel mileage.


Let the East rack up penalty minutes against us, so long as our powerplay is better than last year I'm ok with it.  I'd be more pissed if we responded with similar goonery.  This whole debate reminds me of the Pittsburgh/Philly series two years ago.  A million penalty minutes, a million fights, and million goals and arguably the worst playoff hockey since the 2005 lockout.  Embarrassing.  I'll take our "soft euro" team any day rather than watch Scott Hartnell try to act like a bad professional wrestler (and even worse hockey player). 

 

Penalty minutes are not necessarily an effective measurement of physicality, being that many penalties come from poor decision making, lack of discipline, and breakdowns in defensive coverage.



#86 stillwater

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 03:08 PM

Yeah, Like Crymson said, it's not like the Eastern coaches, some of whom have coached in the West are telling their Eastern conference players, some of whom have also have played in the West, "look, I want you to hit those guys harder than you did when you played in the West"



#87 kipwinger

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 03:09 PM

 

A full, exhaustive comparison of hit severity between the two conferences would be prohibitively time-consuming. From my own experience as a researcher, and given the total absence of extraneous factors that may cause a difference in average impact force between the two conferences, I feel it is safe to conclude that there would be no significant difference. All of those involved are professional hockey players; there are (obviously) no environmental differences between the conferences that would account for a disparity in impact force; and many (perhaps most) of these players have resided in both conferences throughout their careers. Those with the most influence over the degree of physicality in play are general managers---in player selection---and coaches---in play direction---both of whom see regular turnover, and very many of whom have served in both conferences.
 

As far as I can tell, the main difference the Red Wings will experience in the East will be far lower cumulative travel mileage.


 

Penalty minutes are not necessarily an effective measurement of physicality, being that many penalties come from poor decision making, lack of discipline, and breakdowns in defensive coverage.

 

I completely agree.  All too often though, this "fear the East's physicality" argument boils down to how many penalty minutes are accrued as your previous post clearly pointed out there's no difference in hits or fights.  I think when people suggest that our guys will get beat up in the East they're thinking of the dirty stuff.  And I couldn't be more delighted if that's the way teams play us all season long.  I'd be happy to have an 82 game power play.  I'll start worrying when "the East is more physical" means that the East plays a more fast paced, in your face type of game and so far I'm not convinced they do. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#88 Shaman

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 03:48 PM

#1 most important stat most people miss, who ever has scored the most goals at the end of the game wins. Even if they are out hit 100 to 1.


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#89 esteef

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 07:19 PM

The "hit" stat, much like +/-, is a joke to begin with.  It's completely subjective, is kept by the home team and is usually biased in their favor.  But don't let that hinder your "research".

 

esteef


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#90 GMRwings1983

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 07:25 PM

 

One team "punked" Montreal out this year and it was the Leafs in 1 game. The Canadiens were also the ones who instigated those fights due to the fact that they were getting killed on the scoreboard.

 

The best way to deal with a team carrying a goon, is to not carry one yourself, and to have a good powerplay. 

 

The Wings have faced several teams with those types of guys on them and have proven over and over again that you do not need to carry a fighter. Having one on your roster doesn't have any effect at all on teams taking liberty with your players, that will happen in a physical sport regardless...all the fighter does is allow you to get your "pound of flesh" in return.

 

Ottawa punked them out of the playoffs.  

 

Boston has been punking them for years.

 

There's no mystery why Montreal got Parros, despite previous attitude from their management that they didn't need to get tougher.


The Ducks, Blues and Sharks routinely throw the goons at us and we always handle well.

I mentioned in another post that Kronwall may neuter his game a bit if he gets jumped after every clean Kronwalling.

 

The Sharks and Ducks haven't had goons for years.  

 

The Blues have and I've been upset at how guys like Backes and Stewart were given free reign to drill our stars into the boards and start scrums after whistles.  


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#91 stillwater

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 07:57 PM

 

Ottawa punked them out of the playoffs.  

 

Boston has been punking them for years.

 

There's no mystery why Montreal got Parros, despite previous attitude from their management that they didn't need to get tougher.


 

The Sharks and Ducks haven't had goons for years.  

 

The Blues have and I've been upset at how guys like Backes and Stewart were given free reign to drill our stars into the boards and start scrums after whistles.  

 

Montreal won 3 of 4 regular season games in 2013. In this decade the Bruins are 12-17 in games vs Montreal.

 

I remember Parros with the Ducks, don't you.



#92 stillwater

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 08:03 PM

What is "punked" anyway? Is that like the old TV show where you think one thing is happening, but it's really something completely different that's going on?

 

If so, sure, that applies here.



#93 GMRwings1983

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 08:09 PM

 

Montreal won 3 of 4 regular season games in 2013. In this decade the Bruins are 12-17 in games vs Montreal.

 

I remember Parros with the Ducks, don't you.

 

I'm talking about playoffs.  Montreal has been physically bullied in the playoffs by the Senators and Bruins in recent memory.  

 

They didn't sign Parros because he could help them score goals or help God (Carey Price) stop shots.   


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#94 stillwater

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 08:19 PM

 

I'm talking about playoffs.  Montreal has been physically bullied in the playoffs by the Senators and Bruins in recent memory.  

 

They didn't sign Parros because he could help them score goals or help God (Carey Price) stop shots.   

 

If by "bullying" you mean hurting people for no good reason, then you have it backwards my friend. It was Montreal who started all of the cheap goon nonsense when behind by 5-goals vs Ottawa highlighted by the head-butt, and aggressor penalties PK Subban received for his unjustified attack on Kyle Turris.

 

So you think Parros will help Montreal in the playoffs?



#95 Zetts

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 09:02 PM

 

If by "bullying" you mean hurting people for no good reason, then you have it backwards my friend. It was Montreal who started all of the cheap goon nonsense when behind by 5-goals vs Ottawa highlighted by the head-butt, and aggressor penalties PK Subban received for his unjustified attack on Kyle Turris.

 

So you think Parros will help Montreal in the playoffs?

Agreed. I'd be willing to bet Parros barely touches the ice in the playoffs.



#96 GMRwings1983

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 09:08 PM

 

If by "bullying" you mean hurting people for no good reason, then you have it backwards my friend. It was Montreal who started all of the cheap goon nonsense when behind by 5-goals vs Ottawa highlighted by the head-butt, and aggressor penalties PK Subban received for his unjustified attack on Kyle Turris.

 

So you think Parros will help Montreal in the playoffs?

 

He'll toughen them up in the regular season with his manliness.    

 

But I think he should and will play in the playoffs if they go up against Boston/Ottawa/Toronto, and those teams dress their tough guys against Montreal.  


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#97 stillwater

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 09:10 PM

 

He'll toughen them up in the regular season with his manliness.    

 

 

 Ok, that's one of the strangest sentences I've ever read.



#98 FireCaptain

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 09:12 PM

...but I bet his mustache does...

 

 

 

 

 

...from the bench.

 

Agreed. I'd be willing to bet Parros barely touches the ice in the playoffs.


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#99 amato

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 09:27 PM

Parros does have a pretty impressive 'stache.

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#100 kipwinger

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 09:41 PM

The "hit" stat, much like +/-, is a joke to begin with.  It's completely subjective, is kept by the home team and is usually biased in their favor.  But don't let that hinder your "research".

 

esteef

 

Considering all teams play roughly the same amount of home games, wouldn't the subjective bias have essentially no effect? 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 






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