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unsaddleddonald

Red Wings popularity in Detroit/Michigan

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Guest The Axe   
Guest The Axe

So you were good with the NHL 10 years ago. When there were 30 NHL teams, all of which are playing where they're currently located except for Winnipeg. The difference is the Wings were a dominant team then and now they aren't.

Youre wrong. We are entering into a new era of dominant Wings teams. We are strong at D and G, and good at offense.

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So you were good with the NHL 10 years ago. When there were 30 NHL teams, all of which are playing where they're currently located except for Winnipeg. The difference is the Wings were a dominant team then and now they aren't.

Youre wrong. We are entering into a new era of dominant Wings teams. We are strong at D and G, and good at offense.

If players develop like they should.

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I was happier with the sport in general. You can just table the bandwagon fan implication - I was a fan long before Steve Yzerman came along.

OK. But the differences between then and now are the cap, Atlanta/Winnipeg, and how long it had been since the Wings' last Cup. The expansion had already happened. So it sounds like you're not enjoying it as much because of parity or the fact that the team is in a bit of a down period. That or it's the makeup of the team.

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My bad I will rephrase it:

I think the system the NHL had pre 2005 was not broken, so no need to fix it. The lockout has taken a lot of good things from Wingsfans and I am sure this is also a reason why the popularity is declining. Most people don't like to watch millionaires fighting billionaires in tough economic times.

The good thing is, this is also a chance for the new Wings core to get some fans back and at least have the city more interested in the DRW once again.

The popularity isn't declining. You're arguing against something that's not even factually correct. Both ratings AND profits were up in the NHL again this year, as they have been every year since the 2005 lockout. Type any combination of the words "NHL", "Lockout", "Ratings", and "Profits" into google and you'll be hit smack in the face with the truth.

The fact that you believe there's something wrong with the game doesn't make it so. In fact, it's more popular than ever.

Edited by kipwinger

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What's wrong with hockey being a white sport?

From a business perspective, everything. Imagine if the Illitches figured out how to bridge hockey to the african-american community in SE Michigan. Do you know how big of a deal that would be?

Unfortunately, nobodys putting down the $$$ for poor minority kids to play the game. And on that thought, I think that is where Bettman should have tried "Growing the Game" instead of southern expansion. Would have been way cheaper and would have paid off by now.

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The popularity isn't declining. You're arguing against something that's not even factually correct. Both ratings AND profits were up in the NHL again this year, as they have been every year since the 2005 lockout. Type any combination of the words "NHL", "Lockout", "Ratings", and "Profits" into google and you'll be hit smack in the face with the truth.

The fact that you believe there's something wrong with the game doesn't make it so. In fact, it's more popular than ever.

Ah sure like the NHL would publish bad numbers ... the popularity of the Wings is declining. The fact, that some people believe everything doesn't make it true. Sure because the profits are up the cap is down to 64 million this makes as much sense as the owners and NHL crying about losing money in every lockout year but are posing big number and magical increases every other year makes total sense for sure. I am also sure destroying whatever magic the winterclassic had left is a result of the record profits and popularity, again makes total sense.

Fully agree with Vladdy the game was more interesting, intense, informative and overall just better. Not only because the Wings had a great roster I also loved warching guys like Stevens, Niedermayer and the physically of the games. In case of the Wings - which is way more important - the popularity needs to be renewed, the young guns deserve a packed building and enthusiastic fans.

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It's not the NHL publishing those numbers. Nationwide the NHL is more popular. Numbers might be down in Detroit, but that's largely due to the fact that they've fallen off a bit and because of the makeup of the team. I've heard a lot of people who want a more North American team with hitting and fighting.

And really, it sounds like that's your argument too. It's not the league itself that's more unpopular, it's the ratings here in Detroit that are down, and there's a lot more parity. Detroit can't go into some bottom feeder's barn and win 4-1 while taking it easy, and top seeds aren't more or less automatic to advance in the first round of the playoffs anymore.

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It's not the NHL publishing those numbers. Nationwide the NHL is more popular. Numbers might be down in Detroit, but that's largely due to the fact that they've fallen off a bit and because of the makeup of the team. I've heard a lot of people who want a more North American team with hitting and fighting.

And really, it sounds like that's your argument too. It's not the league itself that's more unpopular, it's the ratings here in Detroit that are down, and there's a lot more parity. Detroit can't go into some bottom feeder's barn and win 4-1 while taking it easy, and top seeds aren't more or less automatic to advance in the first round of the playoffs anymore.

These numbers still need authorization, which of course is granted by the NHL. Also even if the increase or as some call it explosion were true it doesn't help it's the opposite:

1. this would guarantee another lockout in a few years

2. That point is even more important: the Wings are declining ---> as a Wings fan this is not good at all. Personally I'd rather see the league doing worse and the Wings doing well than the other way around.

This thread is about the popularity of the Wings not about the 29 other franchises, so I couldn't care less if they are doing well or not. Sure people want a more gritty hardnosed team while still having superstars like Datsyuk and Zetterberg nothing wrong with that. Seems to me some posters are more worried about the league as a whole instead of the team they support, which I find hard to understand but to each their own.

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If 3 or 4 teams are strong and the rest of the league is weak, it's going to hurt the strong teams too.

The Wings are in a down trend while they reload and wait for a couple prospects to mature. We saw the same thing between 98 and 02, and again between then and 08. Team starts losing more, fewer fans watch. Team wins again, people pay attention. The same is true of the Tigers, Pistons, and most other teams in other cities.

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If 3 or 4 teams are strong and the rest of the league is weak, it's going to hurt the strong teams too.

The Wings are in a down trend while they reload and wait for a couple prospects to mature. We saw the same thing between 98 and 02, and again between then and 08. Team starts losing more, fewer fans watch. Team wins again, people pay attention. The same is true of the Tigers, Pistons, and most other teams in other cities.

Maybe maybe not, like I said if the Wings are doing well I am happy. There are 30 franchises in this league so it's natural that some are doing better than the others. No, it wouldn't hurt the Wings why should it? To be honest it's absolutely irrelevant how others are doing. Think about it this way; the Leafs are posting record numbers and are the only team on the forbes top 50 list; relevance for this team still 0. It shouldn't matter, how the opponents are doing they are enemies and the goal is to be netter than them and return to former glory. If it means only a few strong markets and less competition so be it.

Guess what the Blues are going to re-sign Pietro with money out of Ilitch pocket, so that's a great player who would help tremendously not hitting the market supported by money from an opponent I fail ro see the benefit here for a team like Detroit. Another point being, a guy from his caliber would also increase the popularity of this team again.

So I am not going to care for opponents or franchises that can't survive on their own, period.

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These numbers still need authorization, which of course is granted by the NHL. Also even if the increase or as some call it explosion were true it doesn't help it's the opposite: 1. this would guarantee another lockout in a few years 2. That point is even more important: the Wings are declining ---> as a Wings fan this is not good at all. Personally I'd rather see the league doing worse and the Wings doing well than the other way around. This thread is about the popularity of the Wings not about the 29 other franchises, so I couldn't care less if they are doing well or not. Sure people want a more gritty hardnosed team while still having superstars like Datsyuk and Zetterberg nothing wrong with that. Seems to me some posters are more worried about the league as a whole instead of the team they support, which I find hard to understand but to each their own.

Are you nuts? No they don't. Nobody needs the NHL's permission to determine whether ratings are up, down, or in the middle. The channels which carry these games release this information frequently (Neilson Ratings) and they do it for free. So the NHL has nothing to do with it when some reporter comes along and says the NHL's popularity is way up because the ratings during hockey games are way up.

You can make up all the silly b.s. you want to support your fictitious argument, but the fact is that the popularity of the NHL is way up (contrary to what you claim), which has been verified by about 2 billion media types, none of whom needed the NHL's permission to report these numbers (contrary to what you claim). So at the end of the day your argument really boils down to "I want the Wings to be able to buy any team they want regardless of whether or not it's good for the game or the league".

If you said just that and didn't use phoney bologna arguments to back it up, I might not be so happy to prove you wrong (there's no joy in shooting down people's opinions, only their made up logic).

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Maybe maybe not, like I said if the Wings are doing well I am happy. There are 30 franchises in this league so it's natural that some are doing better than the others. No, it wouldn't hurt the Wings why should it? To be honest it's absolutely irrelevant how others are doing. Think about it this way; the Leafs are posting record numbers and are the only team on the forbes top 50 list; relevance for this team still 0. It shouldn't matter, how the opponents are doing they are enemies and the goal is to be netter than them and return to former glory. If it means only a few strong markets and less competition so be it.

Guess what the Blues are going to re-sign Pietro with money out of Ilitch pocket, so that's a great player who would help tremendously not hitting the market supported by money from an opponent I fail ro see the benefit here for a team like Detroit. Another point being, a guy from his caliber would also increase the popularity of this team again.

So I am not going to care for opponents or franchises that can't survive on their own, period.

You seem to be operating under the premise that each team is an entity unto itself. They're not. It's more like one parent company owning 30 different restaurants. If only a few are stable the whole company will struggle. The owners don't really own the team, they pay for the right to use an NHL name and logo and to participate in the league while being allowed to run the team as they see fit within the league's rules and bylaws. That's why the league is running Phoenix and why they gave the Devils a bunch of cash this year. Otherwise a bunch of owners could say f off we're forming our own league with the players on our roster and the team names we have now.

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You seem to be operating under the premise that each team is an entity unto itself. They're not. It's more like one parent company owning 30 different restaurants. If only a few are stable the whole company will struggle. The owners don't really own the team, they pay for the right to use an NHL name and logo and to participate in the league while being allowed to run the team as they see fit within the league's rules and bylaws. That's why the league is running Phoenix and why they gave the Devils a bunch of cash this year. Otherwise a bunch of owners could say f off we're forming our own league with the players on our roster and the team names we have now.

This is a good point and shows what's wrong with league. Under this premise the owners would just be renting a team without ever having full control. The league is operating like a regime under a front office which for the most part doesn't have any real hockey-guys running the show. I really don't understand why owners aren't pushing for each team being an entity for itself --> it would solve lot's of the current problems.

I want the Wings to return to glory while Datsyuk and Zetterberg are still superstars, the sad thing is this more difficult than ever thanks to the lockout. I jist fear rhat rhe popularity could easily shrink further before increasing if things aren't improving.

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Every major sports league in north America is like that. It protects the league and ensures that everyone is playing with the same rules, and it helps to limit the number of people who can't afford a team get one. Now, each perspective owner is checked out. Without the league having control of the member teams, anyone could own a team, move it on a whim, or 12 of the teams could just branch off with their players and form a new league. What happens if the other 5 original 6 teams plus Philly, Pit, the Isles, Caps, and Sabres get together then file a suit saying that because they have 5 original 6 teams and a bunch of the older expansion teams they have the right to the NHL name and Stanley Cup, and they win?

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While it isn't nearly as popular as other major sports in the US, the NHL has gotten more popular in recent years. St. Louis' attendance seems to have risen substantially since the lockout of 2005. Chicago has naturally seen a large increase in attendance due to their success the past few years. Nashville even seems to have a good following, from what I remember of their attendance statistics.

Weren't ratings for the Finals near record-high this year?

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